136 replies to this topic

[TheShynessClinic]

Time for Phil to get an empty-netter to keep the point streak alive.

[Jed Zeppelin]

KREJCI.

[sachmoney]

That works.

[SoxScout]

we kick ass even when we play like shit, love that

[jsinger121]

The B's stole 2 points tonight when they hold on.

Edited by jsinger121, 23 December 2008 - 09:26 PM.

[Dollar]

KREJCI! Wooooooooooo!

[Jed Zeppelin]

Big faceoff win by Yelle at the start of that sequence.

[FelixMantilla]

IT'S ALL OVAH!!!!!

[cshea]

KREJCI!

[TheShynessClinic]

BALLGAME

[jsinger121]

20 wins in the last 23 games. WOW!

[Sille Skrub]

Awesome win tonight.

[FelixMantilla]

That Devils team is tough. I do not want to see them in the playoffs.

[Lupe Whalewatch]

20 wins in last 23 games?????

too slow

Edited by Lupe Whalewatch, 23 December 2008 - 09:28 PM.

[TheShynessClinic]

Even when the Bruins play like shit, they can still beat some of the best teams in the league. What a good feeling. What a great team.

[sachmoney]

This was Black and Munich Gold.

LOL Donkaments by Lucic to admit he was just trying to make it get there.

Edited by sachmoney, 23 December 2008 - 09:29 PM.

[RoDaddy]

Another good win tonight, and the B's D is suffocating when it has to be. Play of the game was Thomas' amazing stick save on the empty net shot.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yeah, Thomas played outstanding tonight. Given how shitty he was on SoSH bash night, that was refreshing to see. That stick save was insane.

[sachmoney]

Yeah, Thomas played outstanding tonight. Given how shitty he was on SoSH bash night, that was refreshing to see. That stick save was insane.

Your stomach turned when you saw that didn't it?

[NYCSox]

Just got back from the game. They really have a nice arena there. The sightlines were great, albeit the atmosphere was a little weak. I was very impressed with the Devils. They played a very good defensive game, mostly by packing in the box and allowing the point men to take shots. They do a great job of moving out bodies and clearing rebounds (though Clemenson didn't seem prone to giving up many).

For a third game in four nights, the B's were relatively sharp. You could tell, though, that they started to tire midway through the third period. The PP at the 11:00 minute or so mark was huge as it allowed them to kill two minutes off the clock without having to work in their zone. Savard was off his game as his passes lacked their usual crispness. Chara was outstanding in clearing pucks and starting rushes. The third line, while doing a good job defensively, really was of no use at all in the offensive zone. I mentioned this in the Bergeron thread, but the B's will likely need to address this issue if Sturm and Bergeron are going to be out for a while. Thornton standing up for Vladdy was cool, even though he was outmatched by Rupp (as an aside, Rupp is a big dude).

And then there was Timmy. The stick save was unreal. Especially from where I was sitting it was obviously going to be a goal once the rebound drifted towards the Devils forward. Then again, he got help from the pipes twice (the second one was so flush that you could hear the ping across the arena). And then the popup off the glove that trickled wide and nearly caused a heart attack. He was better on rebounds, though there were two that he allowed that were pretty juicy.

All in all, a great way to head into the Christmas break.

Edited by NYCSox, 23 December 2008 - 11:07 PM.

[FL4WL3SS]

Yeah, Thomas played outstanding tonight. Given how shitty he was on SoSH bash night, that was refreshing to see. That stick save was insane.

Yes, but in typical Thomas fashion he was way too far out of the net and put the rebound right on the opponents stick, that should have been a goal. I was screaming at him for 5 minutes after that fiasco.

Other than that, he played a good game. 2 more points, booyah.

[Lupe Whalewatch]

Yes, but in typical Thomas fashion he was way too far out of the net and put the rebound right on the opponents stick, that should have been a goal. I was screaming at him for 5 minutes after that fiasco.

Wow, where to begin... as far as him being too far out of the net, if you had ever played goal before, you would know his one job was to take the shooter and let the D take the pass. He was right where he should be on that play.

As to where he "put that rebound", Langenbrunner was going full speed when he leaned into that shot from 20-25 feet. I can tell you from experience, you don't "put that rebound" anywhere. You don't even physically make a save. You come out of the net, cut down the angle, and try to be as big as possible. One of three things will happen, the puck will hit you ( and maybe take your head off), it will go in, or it will miss the net. Trust me, there is no physical save in a situation like that, and there certainly isn't any controlling the rebound. If the puck does hit you, you trust your teammates to help you with clearing out the rebound...something Blake Wheeler deserves almost as much credit as Thomas got for the second save.

Sorry, but "put that rebound back on the opponents stick" is pure nonsense, and you wasted 5 minutes after that screaming for no reason.

Edited by Lupe Whalewatch, 24 December 2008 - 12:18 AM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Your stomach turned when you saw that didn't it?

No, I was pretty happy to see it. I think he's never going to lead the Bruins anywhere and shouldn't be their playoff starter, but a great game is a great game and he had a great one.

[FL4WL3SS]

Wow, where to begin... as far as him being too far out of the net, if you had ever played goal before, you would know his one job was to take the shooter and let the D take the pass. He was right where he should be on that play.

As to where he "put that rebound", Langenbrunner was going full speed when he leaned into that shot from 20-25 feet. I can tell you from experience, you don't "put that rebound" anywhere. You don't even physically make a save. You come out of the net, cut down the angle, and try to be as big as possible. One of three things will happen, the puck will hit you ( and maybe take your head off), it will go in, or it will miss the net. Trust me, there is no physical save in a situation like that, and there certainly isn't any controlling the rebound. If the puck does hit you, you trust your teammates to help you with clearing out the rebound...something Blake Wheeler deserves almost as much credit as Thomas got for the second save.

Sorry, but "put that rebound back on the opponents stick" is pure nonsense, and you wasted 5 minutes after that screaming for no reason.

Gee, thanks for the lesson on how to play goalie. I'm pretty sure I've played hockey all of my life and am spot on with my assessment of that play.

If you watch the way Manny plays his angles and rebounds, it's always under control. There is no need to come 10 feet out of the net to cut down an angle when you have a defenseman helping you out. Thomas has let it many many goals in the exact same manner because he comes way too far out, gives up the juicy rebound and then, unlike last night, can not jump back in time for the save. He left the net wide open for the other forward. You would have really impressed me if you had mentioned that instead of continuing to come towards the player with the puck, that instead the proper thing to do is come out to cut down the angle but then slowly move back to the net as the play develops. Something Thomas has never understood, he gets too infatuated with the guy with the puck. If, as a goalie, you see your defenseman pick up the guy with the puck, you play the net completely different than if you see your defenseman play the guy without the puck. I can understand coming out of the net that much if it's just you and the guy with the puck, but in a situation where your defenseman picks up the guy with the puck, you have to think about the other guy. In a one on one situation, I might agree with you, but you simplified it too much and I don't agree with you at all.

[j44thor]

Gee, thanks for the lesson on how to play goalie. I'm pretty sure I've played hockey all of my life and am spot on with my assessment of that play.

If you watch the way Manny plays his angles and rebounds, it's always under control. There is no need to come 10 feet out of the net to cut down an angle when you have a defenseman helping you out. Thomas has let it many many goals in the exact same manner because he comes way too far out, gives up the juicy rebound and then, unlike last night, can not jump back in time for the save. He left the net wide open for the other forward. You would have really impressed me if you had mentioned that instead of continuing to come towards the player with the puck, that instead the proper thing to do is come out to cut down the angle but then slowly move back to the net as the play develops. Something Thomas has never understood, he gets too infatuated with the guy with the puck. If, as a goalie, you see your defenseman pick up the guy with the puck, you play the net completely different than if you see your defenseman play the guy without the puck. I can understand coming out of the net that much if it's just you and the guy with the puck, but in a situation where your defenseman picks up the guy with the puck, you have to think about the other guy. In a one on one situation, I might agree with you, but you simplified it too much and I don't agree with you at all.

Sorry but I've got to agree that this particular rebound was not Thomas fault at all.
I don't care how in control you play, when someone takes a slap shot from 15' out low stick side, you aren't going to prevent a rebound.

Thomas and Wheeler played this perfectly. Wideman didn't really pick up anyone. If Langenbruner fakes the shot and slips a pass to Elias he has a tap in. Wideman should have stuck closer to Elias because he had no chance on Langenbruner.

I really think you are trying to find fault with Thomas because he historically gives up bad rebounds.
I don't think Manny, who had rebound control issues vs. STL, or any goalie for that matter prevents a rebound on that particular play.

[NYCSox]

I think Lupe is more right than wrong. From my vantage point in the arena I was able to see the play develop and the 2 on 1 was properly defensed. Langenbrunner's shot was a rocket from very close, thus making rebound control very difficult.

OTOH, I see Flawless' point re: Thomas being overly aggressive in cutting down the angle. But, I think I would rather Thomas do that and rely on his defenseman to clear the rebound or the other forward than be passive and increase the chances of the shooter scoring.

[FL4WL3SS]

Forget the whole rebound argument, my whole initial point was that he was way too far out of the net in the first place. Bottom line. Period.

[terrorshark]

I love how the guy posts a shutout against a team that has been scoring a ton of goals lately and he still gets shit on for every little thing he did or didn't do.

OTOH, I see Flawless' point re: Thomas being overly aggressive in cutting down the angle. But, I think I would rather Thomas do that and rely on his defenseman to clear the rebound or the other forward than be passive and increase the chances of the shooter scoring.

Exactly, I would much rather have Thomas make a good save and give up a rebound goal than have him lay back and let in the first chance. Elias had to react there, and clearly didn't get all of it, whereas if Thomas were back and Langenbrunner had a bit more time, it probably would have been a goal (think Thomas in shootouts). He almost had to play it like a breakaway, and it worked this time.

Then again, this is all guesswork. The fact of the matter is, Thomas has great numbers this year, has had one bad week all season, and has already tied his career high in shutouts, and is halfway to his highest win total. Both goalies have double digit wins, and miniscule loss totals. The team is overcoming injuries and has the best record in the NHL, with the best splits (almost?) across the board. All this complaining is ridiculous.

[PedroSpecialK]

Watched the game a few hours later and have no issues with the way he played last night. The stick save on Elias was a thing of beauty, and you can't reasonably have expected Fernandez to make all those saves (just as in a Fernandez shutout the same can be said of Thomas). They've complimented each other well, and I expect the two game streaks for each to continue.

[BoSoxFink]

Gee, thanks for the lesson on how to play goalie. I'm pretty sure I've played hockey all of my life and am spot on with my assessment of that play.

If you watch the way Manny plays his angles and rebounds, it's always under control. There is no need to come 10 feet out of the net to cut down an angle when you have a defenseman helping you out. Thomas has let it many many goals in the exact same manner because he comes way too far out, gives up the juicy rebound and then, unlike last night, can not jump back in time for the save. He left the net wide open for the other forward. You would have really impressed me if you had mentioned that instead of continuing to come towards the player with the puck, that instead the proper thing to do is come out to cut down the angle but then slowly move back to the net as the play develops. Something Thomas has never understood, he gets too infatuated with the guy with the puck. If, as a goalie, you see your defenseman pick up the guy with the puck, you play the net completely different than if you see your defenseman play the guy without the puck. I can understand coming out of the net that much if it's just you and the guy with the puck, but in a situation where your defenseman picks up the guy with the puck, you have to think about the other guy. In a one on one situation, I might agree with you, but you simplified it too much and I don't agree with you at all.

Sorry Flawless but I gotta agree with Lupe as well. I still think that many people on this board and in the media as well are too hard on Thomas. You are one that falls into this category, as well as four Peters I have noticed. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so Im not degrading anyone here. But all Thomas does is put up fantastic numbers year after year but these people say, well he still hasnt proven anything to me. What does he have to do?

On this particular play I just dont see how he could control the rebound and when you have a defenseman to protect against the pass I would hope a goalie comes out and challenges the shooter. The Defensemans job in this situation is to take the other guy out of the play on a 2 on 1. I dont see how Thomas can be blamed for this.

[Mad Johnny]

Perhaps you'd have preferred him to handle this one Hasek style.

[The Four Peters]

Sorry Flawless but I gotta agree with Lupe as well. I still think that many people on this board and in the media as well are too hard on Thomas. You are one that falls into this category, as well as four Peters I have noticed.

Even though I really haven't commented on Thomas recently despite his bad stretch (before the NJ game), I think a lot of people on this board and in the media are too forgiving of him and his style, b/c he's a great "story". Sure, he's played very well for most of this year. But as has been repeated ad nauseam, he'll have weeks to a month when he is not very good. Also, his scrambling, rebound prone style is much more stressful and difficult for the defense, and that adds up over time. There is NOTHING worse as a defenseman than playing the puck perfectly to get an outside shot, and seeing a soft goal scored b/c of a mental lapse or bad rebound. It's brutal and disheartening.

But, as also has been said around here, this is probably the perfect scenario for Thomas right now. He just doesn't work as a 1A goalie all year and into the playoffs, because he inevitably wears down. However, when paired with someone like Fernandez, it works beautifully. His "down" period is shortened, b/c if he has a bad game or two he can a rest to regroup, which is what just happened recently. I have few complaints with how he's played this year, other than the fact that he is infuriating to watch. He's not Blaine Lacher, year 2, but he's not Dominik Hasek in his prime either. He is what he is.

All that said, if the playoffs started tomorrow, there is zero doubt in my mind I want Manny Fernandez in net for Game 1. It's really not even a debate, in my mind.

After all that, the back and forth on it is starting to get tiresome. We know where pretty much everyone stands, and we will just keep talking in circles. Let's enjoy this amazing run, and save our venom for Les Scabs (who are 12 points back...in December).

[The Four Peters]

Oh, and I finally saw the highlight of the save in the NJ game. I agree with FL3WL4SS that he came out too far, but I really can't fault him for doing so. However, what I didn't see noticed (or maybe I just missed it), but what really saved that goal, besides Thomas's stick, is Wheeler's backchecking. If he doesn't get a stick on Elias's stick, that gets buried. Great, great play to help save a goal.

Edited by The Four Peters, 25 December 2008 - 01:43 PM.

[terrorshark]

I find that the best comparison for Thomas to the average goalie can be found in baseball batting stances/swings. For instance, what works better: Gary Sheffield's constantly shifting, moving stance? Albert Pujols spread-out, quiet stance? What about Cal Ripken or Keith Hernandez, who changed stances (the former) or moved around the box (the latter) as frequently as every at-bat? And for the sake of this post, think about Craig Counsell. Now, imagine Sheffield using Counsell's stance, or even vice versa (Counsell's arms would probably fall off, but whatever). Would it work? Would it effect him positively? Negatively? Every player's swing has its holes, just like every goalie's style has its holes. What seems to be the case is that Thomas' concentration on improving his positioning has made him into a very effective goalie at making "positional saves", while he uses his wild all-or-nothing style to cover the rebounds he allows. Manny, on the other hand, controls himself and his rebounds better (and can handle the puck, which I really think is the biggest difference between the two), but occasionally does get caught in odd positions where he over-commits to one side of the net. Both have great reaction times, and both are good athletes. Thomas, like Counsell/Sheffield, is painful to watch sometimes, but undoubtedly effective. The style does leave opportunity for more prolonged slumps, but over the course of a season the numbers will always be there. Manny's style is more like a Jeter or a Polanco, where its very consistent with fewer holes, but the hot streaks are less spectacular.

All this babbling being said, Manny's consistency makes him an obvious choice if the playoffs started today, but Thomas is one HELL of a trump card to be holding.

[PedroSpecialK]

Why not continue riding the hot hand in the playoffs in 2-3 game spurts?

[terrorshark]

Why not continue riding the hot hand in the playoffs in 2-3 game spurts?

In theory (and maybe reality, too), this probably is the best choice. To continue the baseball analogy, while I'm at it; this is kinda like bringing in your closer in the 7th inning of a one run game, facing the middle of the opposition's order. It really IS the best idea, but if you end up losing in the 9th (losing the series in the Bruins case), the scrutiny is so intense that it could cost your job. While that wouldn't happen in Claude's case (probably), he already carries the stigma of not being a good playoff coach (unfair assessment), which I'd imagine would force him into "conventional" descisions, i.e. ride one goalie until you really can't anymore.

edit: grammar.

Edited by terrorshark, 25 December 2008 - 03:33 PM.

[FL4WL3SS]

I wasn't shitting on Thomas for that game at all, for fuck's sake, all I said was that the save was typical Thomas style in how he played it. He played a great game and I think he's playing great this year.