339 replies to this topic

[PedroKsBambino]

Red Sox owner just e-mailed several media members with a stunning twist in the team's pursuit of Mark Teixeira. "We met with Mr. Teixeira and were very much impressed with him. After hearing about his other offers, however, it seems clear that we are not going to be a factor."

Kilgore/ Extra Bases Boston.com

So, was someone's bluff just called or is there actually a term/request that came up that is so unexpected that the Sox have walked away over it?

Does anyone other than Boston.com have this item?

Edited by PedroKsBambino, 18 December 2008 - 11:08 PM.

[DJnVa]

That's really weird. Not even a factor?

Could Henry be using the media like Boras?

[jsinger121]

Henry is right in a sense that if Teixeira has bigger offers from Washington and maybe Baltimore then why should the Sox go higher when they have more to offer in terms of winning. Winning atmosphere should come at a bit of a discount.

[Foulkey Reese]

That's pretty stunning. I can't wait to see what this monster offer is that the Sox are unwilling to match.

[DJnVa]

Could he be calling his bluff? "You want to take the 10 years? Have fun in DC." The "competitive" could be the length not the AAV.

[SoxScout]

Has to be going to the highest bidder with an offer well over $200m... right?

I dont think that Boras and the Sox have a type of relationship that would allow bluffing and other BS.

Edited by SoxScout, 18 December 2008 - 11:17 PM.

[RedOctober3829]

That's really weird. Not even a factor?

Could Henry be using the media like Boras?

1)This is a media ploy to tell Boras that he better drop his demands or they are out of it but I don't think that is Henry's style.

2) Henry is trying to soften the blow to the fans when it comes out that Teixeira signs for 9-10 years and close to $200 million. If this is the case, kudos to Theo and the Treo for not going above what the perceived value for him is.

3) Just a part of negotiations??

[SoxFanSince57]

It sounds like the Red Sox have put their "best and final" on the table and JH is signaling to one and all that the Sox will go no higher.

Seems like a further bit of hardball from the team's owner. First, "we won't go ten" and now "we won't go higher".

Or the LAAA/MFY just shot their wad big time.

[NomarRS05]

Didn't the Red Sox follow up on their public statements to bow out of the A-Rod sweepstakes pre-2004? This is obviously not a good sign. It's also a false statement, because the Red Sox have already been a factor in the Teixeira sweepstakes by driving up the price and years for everyone else.

[rembrat]

I can’t say that I am shocked because I was always of the belief that Tex, if he signed with the Red Sox, was going to leave money on the table in return of joining a team where he had a chance to win (LAAoA or BOS) and be marketed. Maybe I was a bit naïve.

[pk1627]

When JWHenry starts emailing the media, it's over.

He did it with ARod, Manny, etc. When the price is well outside their valuation, the Sox say thanks and walk away.

[Fenway Frank]

JWH & Co. were prepared to fly off into the night and leave the Matsuzaka negotiations behind.

Of course, this is a bit different (FA vs. posted Japanese player) but I think that there are still some parallels here.

[Foulkey Reese]

This is striking, for a number of reasons.

• The Red Sox are said to have a very good working relationship with Boras
• They generally don't negotiate via the media
• If it's a bluff, it seems out of character for Henry
• If it's a bluff, I'd expect Lucchino to send the email, not Henry

My head is spinning. If this guy becomes a Yankee, holy fuck.

I'm expecting it at this point. I hope the Sox have a good plan B ready.

[curly2]

JWH & Co. were prepared to fly off into the night and leave the Matsuzaka negotiations behind.

Of course, this is a bit different (FA vs. posted Japanese player) but I think that there are still some parallels here.

Once the Sox had the high bid on the posting, I never had a doubt they would sign Matsuzaka. It was too important to the Sox, Matsuzaka, Boras and the Seibu Lions. They all would have looked bad if the deal hadn't gone through, so even while both sides were posturing, I knew they would come to a deal.

This one is totally different. Boras and the player have options, and Henry can walk away with dignity.

[JohntheBaptist]

If in fact this isn't a bluff, it's probably because either of BAL or WAS beat them in years and dollars, and you don't hire Scott Boras to leave money on the table. He'll spin it to himself and the media that, while they're not competitive now, he's joining the team to make them competitive.

Or it was the Yankees.

[NomarRS05]

I'm expecting it at this point. I hope the Sox have a good plan B ready.

Derek Lowe? Really, what else is out there? Teixeira is the big fish and the only way to make a real splash this off-season will be to make a costly trade for one of the talked-about names like Peavy or to wait until the trading deadline and hope a Holliday-type bat is available.

[geoduck no quahog]

I read somewhere in all of this noise that a team (the Angels, I think) had offered 8 @ 200M. Anyone recall that?

Edited by geoduck no quahog, 18 December 2008 - 11:32 PM.

[diehard24]

When JWHenry starts emailing the media, it's over.

He did it with ARod, Manny, etc. When the price is well outside their valuation, the Sox say thanks and walk away.

Still seems odd that the entire leadership group would go all the way down there just to find out they aren't even close. It's a ploy, or there was an offer that came in while they were in the air.

[Spacemans Bong]

Cafardo was just on ESPNEWS and seemed to be stunned. He was really struggling to find any reasons why the Red Sox backed out, other than the immediately obvious.

[trekfan55]

I'm expecting it at this point. I hope the Sox have a good plan B ready.

Can the Yankees really spend all that money on 3 free agents after they are asking NY to put up more money for their stadium in this economic climate?

Edited by trekfan55, 19 December 2008 - 12:30 AM.

[jose melendez]

I just heard it on BUR of all places citing "wire reports." ESPN still has a report saying that the Boston deal could come as soon as tomorrow. I agree that the Sox need to have their walk away point, but if Tex isn't coming, I sure as hell hope they have a plan for where else to spend some of the money.

[Mystic Merlin]

Hey, I love Teixeira as a player, but I am ok with this.

They set two lines in the sand, from the looks of it: one for the preferred ceiling ($160m); one for the absolute ceiling ($185m). Obviously, there is more info to come out - not to mention Teixeira remains unsigned - but I see nothing wrong with this. They run the franchise like a business, so it makes sense to not surpass your limits for one player.

I hope they have a concrete Plan B; if little things like Delcarmen not so coincidentally missing arbitration by a couple of days is any indication, they do.

Just gotta move on and improve the club as best they can within the available means.

[NomarRS05]

Mike Lynch on Ch 5:

Sox are OUT
A source says there is a $200M deal on the table
The Yankees are in it
Boras believes he'll have a deal sometime tomorrow
Sox only wanted to spend $160M, then were willing to go to $185
No f'n way they were going to $200M

So the Red Sox won't close one of the best free agents to hit the market in recent years because of an extra $15 million spaced out over eight years? I don't like it. I think players like Teixeira only come around so often with more and more potential FA's being locked up with revenue sharing, and that the Sox will be costing themselves a chance to be that much more competitive for a 2009 title.

They were ready to commit $20 million to a player like Ramirez who was a sure bet to be far less valuable overall than Teixeira, so where is that money going?

[DJnVa]

I know it's the nature of the beast, but I just don't understand how you can go from this:

"Sox source: 'Very, very, very good shot this is a done deal tonight. This is their best offer, it's more than what Henry wants to spend.'"

to not being a factor in a manner of hours. Not being a factor makes it seem like they aren't even in the ballpark, and you have to think that they would know if they are close before flying the owners down to Texas. Something seems off about this.

They were ready to commit $20 million to a player like Ramirez who was a sure bet to be far less valuable overall than Teixeira, so where is that money going?

Come on, you need to be fair. Manny's would have been for 1 or 2 years, this is for 8 to 10. Huge difference.

Edited by DJnVa, 19 December 2008 - 12:03 AM.

[Dogman2]

So the Red Sox won't close one of the best free agents to hit the market in recent years because of an extra $15 million spaced out over eight years? I don't like it. I think players like Teixeira only come around so often with more and more potential FA's being locked up with revenue sharing, and that the Sox will be costing themselves a chance to be that much more competitive for a 2009 title.

They were ready to commit $20 million to a player like Ramirez who was a sure bet to be far less valuable overall than Teixeira, so where is that money going?

That's my problem. An additional 15 mil spaced over that time frame given cannot be the deal breaker. I think Corsi summed up what Henry is attempting to accomplish. I think Boras and his bluff has been called.

[TheoShmeo]

So the Red Sox won't close one of the best free agents to hit the market in recent years because of an extra $15 million spaced out over eight years? I don't like it. I think players like Teixeira only come around so often with more and more potential FA's being locked up with revenue sharing, and that the Sox will be costing themselves a chance to be that much more competitive for a 2009 title.

They were ready to commit $20 million to a player like Ramirez who was a sure bet to be far less valuable overall than Teixeira, so where is that money going?

If this is really over, then recent history is repeating itself. The Sox walked away from A-Rod over about $15 mm, if I'm not mistaken.

I wonder if Henry's use of the word "seems" is intended to signal some wiggle room. It "seems" like the Sox are out of it...but maybe they're not.

[crescd215]

In the locked thread I read that some people believed that Boras may try to package Tek with Teixeira. Could it be that the ownership doesn't want Tek back and that is the reason that they "are not going to be a factor"?

Could Boras be screwing himself by having to take a smaller offer from another team(if there is no $200 mil. on the table) than the one the Sox are offering due to him insisting Tek get a deal from the Sox too?

[RedOctober3829]

Mike Lynch on Ch 5:

Sox are OUT
A source says there is a $200M deal on the table
The Yankees are in it
Boras believes he'll have a deal sometime tomorrow
Sox only wanted to spend $160M, then were willing to go to $185
No f'n way they were going to $200M

Henry: We are willing to go above $160 and are willing to come to meet with Mark face-to-face to sell him on the merits of playing for the Red Sox.

Boras: I will meet you at Mark's house tonight.

Boras: Hey, Brian and Tony, the Red Sox are coming down to meet Mark and finalize a deal. This is your last chance to make an offer.

Henry and the Treo make their sales pitch and make their final offer of 8/185.

Boras: Well, I have better offers on the table from two teams. I am giving you one chance to improve your offer.

Henry: Screw you Scott. Mark, good luck to you.

[Rough Carrigan]

They all flew down to Texas to meet him. I don't picture them doing that as a desperation thing. "We've got a 1 in 10 shot. Let's hope the introductions go really well!!"

No. Either Boras got a significantly better offer while they were in the air, which is curious. Or he just told them that he did, expecting the Sox to throw just a little more swag in the kitty.

It will be very interesting to see if this takes one more twist and to read how things went afterward.

[Gash Prex]

While this is all based on speculation, I really don't think its as simple as "just give him another 15 million." From all reports, the Sox valued him at 20 x 8 = 160 million. They were willing to move up to 184 or so to sweeten the deal but not willing to move to 200. 200 million would be 40 more than they valued him at. Plus, once you start down the "just give him another 15 million" where does that end? Personally, I don't think the increase production over Lowell justifies breaking the bank for Tex. While it sucks from a fans standpoint because we have no shiny new toy to watch next year, its still a business - and I am sure at some point it made no sense. That line has been drawn by Henry and Boras can now either take it or leave it.

[diehard24]

If this is really over, then recent history is repeating itself. The Sox walked away from A-Rod over about $15 mm, if I'm not mistaken.

I wonder if Henry's use of the word "seems" is intended to signal some wiggle room. It "seems" like the Sox are out of it...but maybe they're not.

I'd say the fact that we have exactly one sentence to go on that was obviously sent in haste, after a meeting that brought the entire leadership team down to talk face-to-face, means there is wiggle room, or at least should temper our reactions. Let's see what comes next.

[diehard24]

If this is really over, then recent history is repeating itself. The Sox walked away from A-Rod over about $15 mm, if I'm not mistaken.

I wonder if Henry's use of the word "seems" is intended to signal some wiggle room. It "seems" like the Sox are out of it...but maybe they're not.

I'd say the fact that we have exactly one sentence to go on that was obviously sent in haste, after a meeting that brought the entire leadership team down to talk face-to-face, means there is wiggle room, or at least should temper our reactions. Let's see what comes next.

[NomarRS05]

Come on, you need to be fair. Manny's would have been for 1 or 2 years, this is for 8 to 10. Huge difference.

Given his age and track record, Teixeira is likely to be productive for most if not all of those years. The thing is that the Red Sox have that kind of money to commit to a slugger every season, and Teixeira is one of the few that could have come close to replacing Ramirez's production. So again, where does that money go? By the time they spend it, will this team's window have closed?

[Rough Carrigan]

The Sporting News says that the Angels and Orioles GM's claim they haven't talked to Boras today (Thursday). So, either Boras is lying (always a possibility) or the Nationals and yankees have made significantly bigger offers.

[grantb]

Is it possible the breaking point was an opt out, as opposed to number of years or money?

[Pumpsie]

I also think that the Sox are calling Boras' bluff. If Boras really DOES have an offer for $200+ from the Nats or O's, God bless Mark Teixeira playing for one of those teams for the rest of his career. Is THAT worth $15M to him? If it is, then let him enjoy playing the rest of his career without ever winning a championship.

Good move. You can't let Boras dictate the situation and get you into a bidding war, real or imagined. You have to make your best offer and then walk away if someone else can top it.

It's not the end of the world. If he ends up with the Nats or O's, so what? If he ends up with the Angels, we already beat the Angels with him on the team and with our own team plagued by injuries. If he ends up with the Yankees, then Manny won't end up there.

Now let's get some more pitching, a 4th outfielder, a catcher and a back-up infielder and let's do it quickly.

[Clears Cleaver]

If I were the Yankees, I would sign him. Basically you eliminate the Red Sox as a factor next year and fill a major void on your own team. $200M from tehm seems about right. Or maybe Washington went to 10 years.

who knows. At this point, who cares. But I do admit that there is the potential here for two straight offseasons where the red Sox did nothing to improve themselves. I think any fan deserves to be upset if that ends up being the case

[SoxFanSince57]

They all flew down to Texas to meet him. I don't picture them doing that as a desperation thing. "We've got a 1 in 10 shot. Let's hope the introductions go really well!!"

No. Either Boras got a significantly better offer while they were in the air, which is curious. Or he just told them that he did, expecting the Sox to throw just a little more swag in the kitty.

It will be very interesting to see if this takes one more twist and to read how things went afterward.

I see it this way too. It is somewhat curious that they went down to make their "personal" pitch to Teixeira only to find that another bid had been made while they were on route. If accurate, Boras used the request by the Sox for a face-to-face meeting beautifully to get another team to make a final last ditch offer.

I am a bit puzzled if the Sox are in fact out of the bidding why someone else in the negotiating group has not contacted the media. One would think the media would have a follow on report by now if the Sox were heading back to the airport.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

If I were the Yankees, I would sign him. Basically you eliminate the Red Sox as a factor next year and fill a major void on your own team. $200M from tehm seems about right. Or maybe Washington went to 10 years.

who knows. At this point, who cares. But I do admit that there is the potential here for two straight offseasons where the red Sox did nothing to improve themselves. I think any fan deserves to be upset if that ends up being the case

You're joking, right? They may not have "improved" the team after 2007, but they had just won a world series. And they managed to get within one game of returning there.

As for "elminate the Red Sox as a factor next year", you can't be serious. You really think that if the Yankees sign Teixeira that the Red Sox aren't a factor next year? They were one of the top teams in all of baseball last year. This puts the Yankees back in the playoff picture, but it certainly does not remove the Red Sox.

[geoduck no quahog]

The most telling line for me in Henry's statement was, "Baseball as a whole has not yet been hit by the financial crisis, but it will. The degree is in question and won't be answered for a while."

The Yankees are on the verge of committing 100's of millions of dollars as the world economy is about to tank. Henry is a financial guy. Henry is not going to bankrupt the Sox for the net upgrade from Lowell to Teixeira. If I'm correct, it's more than just the contract because there's bound to be insurance costs in there as well.

Is it just coincidence that Gammons talks about financial strain next summer and teams needing to dump contracts? PG is not a financial guy...but he knows one.

Most baseball teams are run by people with financial backgrounds while the Yankees are run by a couple of egotistical buffoons who inherited the job. Red Sox income is limited...they're at their peak right now and cannot anticipate anything but equal or lower revenues in the next couple of years.

Plus Madoff was going to lend them the money.

[trekfan55]

Given his age and track record, Teixeira is likely to be productive for most if not all of those years. The thing is that the Red Sox have that kind of money to commit to a slugger every season, and Teixeira is one of the few that could have come close to replacing Ramirez's production. So again, where does that money go? By the time they spend it, will this team's window have closed?

Not only that, but if the Yankees end up signing him that means they now have two excellent picthers plus an incredible bat in the middle of the lineup in the offseason while:

But I do admit that there is the potential here for two straight offseasons where the red Sox did nothing to improve themselves. I think any fan deserves to be upset if that ends up being the case

And this is the part that bothers me the most. The Sox are standing pat right now while almost every piece that could improve them is being signed elsewhere, no headway is being made about finding a catcher (they have zero catchers right now) and bringing this back on topic, spent practically all their energy in trying to land Teixeira while they knew that the possibility was there that they could be outbid.

Yes, I am upset at this point because the path the Sox FO led was towrads signing Teixeira and then making other minor improvements which would have been fine. Now what?

Edit to add

You're joking, right? They may not have "improved" the team after 2007, but they had just won a world series. And they managed to get within one game of returning there.

I'll give you 2007, however, I look at the team that finished the season and there is no way I would like that same team on the field for an entire season. It was not entirely the FO's fault but the 2008 Sox, at the end of their season, were missing Manny's bat, had Mark Kotsay and Varitek as automatic outs, Papi hobbled, Lowell out and now had surgery, are missing a 5th starter (and maybe a 4th). What excactly has been done (or appears to be done) to address any of those issues?

Edited by trekfan55, 19 December 2008 - 12:55 AM.

[Rough Carrigan]

I see it this way too. It is somewhat curious that they went down to make their "personal" pitch to Teixeira only to find that another bid had been made while they were on route. If accurate, Boras used the request by the Sox for a face-to-face meeting beautifully to get another team to make a final last ditch offer.

I am a bit puzzled if the Sox are in fact out of the bidding why someone else in the negotiating group has not contacted the media. One would think the media would have a follow on report by now if the Sox were heading back to the airport.

But Henry's statement refers to other "offers" not one offer. So, Boras got both the Nationals and yankees to drop $200 million on the table while the Sox brass were enroute? It's possible but seems like a bit of a longshot that two teams would quickly respond with that kind of commitment.

How would you like to be Tek right now? The people running your one apparent landing spot would like to draw and quarter your agent.

[Ananti]

Walking away is the right decision, the economic crisis we are experiencing is going to get worse, and Henry knows this, committing this kind of money at this point is really not wise. I think most of these contracts that signed in this offseason will be seen as albatrosses this time next year.

[Sille Skrub]

I think this is John Henry calling Boras' bluff and nothing more. I still think the Sox will sign Teixeira. They aren't getting on a plane to Texas if they were not very serious about a deal. I don't think in the time it takes to fly to Texas that two teams swooped in and drastically outbid the Red Sox.

Teixeira wanted the deal to be done by Christmas. I'm afraid we have more days of following this saga and it is far from over. It's really not hard to have full confidence in the Red Sox management here. They aren't going to bid against themselves.

Pass the egg nog. I'm going to sit back, enjoy the holidays and the snow today.

[yep]

Speaking as someone who routinely negotiates significant-money business deals that are usually much smaller than $180m...

NOBODY sends out a mass email to third parties that the deal is dead, unless they are either genuinely declaring that the deal is dead, or else trying to pull off a MASSIVE end-run around a middle man. And the genuine "deal is dead" email doesn't happen until an opposing contract has been signed. Unless you're really drunk. There is no reason for it.

There is ZERO reason for JWH to email anyone but his wife about how things are going mid-negotiation. And he is not the kind of man who just has to vent by spamming a bunch of journalists. There is no reason for him to provide intermediate updates.

This is a ploy. I don't know what the ploy is, and have no idea whether it will work, but nobody ever comes out of a negotiation and announces publicly that it's not going to happen unless they are trying to influence the outcome.

[Myt1]

I also think that the Sox are calling Boras' bluff. If Boras really DOES have an offer for $200+ from the Nats or O's, God bless Mark Teixeira playing for one of those teams for the rest of his career. Is THAT worth $15M to him? If it is, then let him enjoy playing the rest of his career without ever winning a championship.

Did you have the Rays making it to the World Series this year?

8 to 10 years is a long time. This hubris reads like a NYYFans post.