7 replies to this topic

[templeUsox]

Link

Good to see. Hopefully it's not the last award he wins this off-season.

Here is the complete list, though I'm sure that should go in the MLB forum too:

P - MIKE MUSSINA - YANKEES
C - JOE MAUER - TWINS
1ST - CARLOS PENA - RAYS
2ND - DUSTIN PEDROIA - RED SOX
3RD - ADRIAN BELTRE - MARINERS
SS - MICHAEL YOUNG - RANGERS
OF - TORII HUNTER - ANGELS
OF - GRADY SIZEMORE - INDIANS
OF - ICHIRO SUZUKI - MARINERS

Edited by templeUsox, 06 November 2008 - 01:25 AM.

[LondonSox]

Link

Good to see. Hopefully it's not the last award he wins this off-season.

Here is the complete list, though I'm sure that should go in the MLB forum too:

P - MIKE MUSSINA - YANKEES
C - JOE MAUER - TWINS
1ST - CARLOS PENA - RAYS
2ND - DUSTIN PEDROIA - RED SOX
3RD - ADRIAN BELTRE - MARINERS
SS - MICHAEL YOUNG - RANGERS
OF - TORII HUNTER - ANGELS
OF - GRADY SIZEMORE - INDIANS
OF - ICHIRO SUZUKI - MARINERS

Pena over the likes of Teix and Youks is a bit of an odd one, but maybe there is some rays love that needed to be reflected? Michael Young looks the only truely bizarre one to me, (Though I think Dice-K is the best fielding pitcher I've seen regularly in a long time). Did Michael Young transform himself from pretty crappy defensively to gold glove in a year?
Wait why am I trying to think logically about gold gloves.... Carry on

[Eric Van]

Pena over the likes of Teix and Youks is a bit of an odd one, but maybe there is some rays love that needed to be reflected? Michael Young looks the only truely bizarre one to me, (Though I think Dice-K is the best fielding pitcher I've seen regularly in a long time). Did Michael Young transform himself from pretty crappy defensively to gold glove in a year?
Wait why am I trying to think logically about gold gloves.... Carry on

Teixeira was only in the league for 2 months. Pena outpolled Youkilis 54-34 in the Fielding Bible Awards and was +14 in Plus / Minus vs. Youkilis's +6 (+14 to +7 runs / 150).

Ranking in Poll and +/- for winners:

Pena: 1, 1
Pedroia: 2 to Mark Ellis (72 to 59), 2 to Ellis (+26 to +15)
Beltre: 1, 1
Young: 3rd to Aybar and Cabrera (49 and 40 to 17); 8th to Aviles +15, Scutaro +12, Lowrie +8, Aybar +7, Punto +4, Cabrera +1, Bartlett -1, Young -7
Mussina: 8th to Rogers, Litsch, Greg Smith, Felix Hernandez, Garland, Greinke, Vazquez (95, 62, 18, 13, 11, 9, 8, 7); Rogers and Litsch were 1-2, Mussina was unranked.

For the OF, we'll do lists:

Fielding Bible Award Points

1. Carl Crawford 87
2. Franklin Gutierrez 85
3. Carlos Gomez 74
4. Nick Markakis 72
5. Grady Sizemore 65
6. Denard Span 63
7. Ichiro Suzuki 61
8. Alex Rios 59
9. Torii Hunter 48

Fielding Bible Plus / Minus

(The raw Plus / Minus simply adds plays (worth .81 runs each) and bases (worth .25 runs), which is all wrong. Hence the runs / 150 translation.)

(Note that by combining the 3 positions we are producing a value ranking rather thn a talent ranking. For the latter, you would move every CF way up.)

1. Carl Crawford +24 / +22 runs / 150 G
2. Franklin Gutierrez +29 / +21
3. Carlos Gomez +32 / +17
4. Alex Rios +26 / +15
5. Jacoby Ellsbury +22 / +13
6. Carlos Gonzalez +10 / +11
7. Denard Span +9 / +8
8. Luke Scott +12 / +8
9. Nick Markakis +12 / +7
10. Johnny Damon +4 / +4
11. Melky Cabrera +6 / +3
12. Emil Brown +2/ +3
13. Adam Jones +3 / +3
14. Ryan Sweeney +5 / +3
15. Ichiro Suzuki +3 / +1
16. Grady Sizemore +7 / +1
17. Gabe Gross 0 / +1
18. Garret Anderson +1 / 0
19. David DeJesus 0 / 0
20. B.J. Upton -9 / -1
21. Marlon Byrd 0 / -1
22. Franklin Francisco 0 / -2
23. Xavier Nady -2 / -2
24. Coco Crisp -2 / -2
25. Torii Hunter -5 / -4

That's right, the three GG winners in the OF were collectively below average.

I don't believe Jacoby was even eligible for the Award poll even though he played more than Crawford or Gutierrez.

Edited by Eric Van, 06 November 2008 - 06:06 AM.

[OCD SS]

Eric, are the FB numbers cumulative or a rate? Does Youks suffer at all for having split his time between 3B and 1B?

[Eric Van]

Eric, are the FB numbers cumulative or a rate? Does Youks suffer at all for having split his time between 3B and 1B?

The first quoted numbers (14 vs. 6) are raw plays + bases and the second quoted numbers (14 vs. 7) are rate, runs per 150 games. Youkilis had slightly more total defensive value than Pena (he was +13 runs per 150 games combined, and 3B defense is inherently more valuable) but Pena did play a better 1B.

[southshoresoxfan]

And in a sign the world is coming to an end, Sportscenter just used Range Factor and Zone Rating when describing Adrian Beltre's increased performance at 3b.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

And in a sign the world is coming to an end, Sportscenter just used Range Factor and Zone Rating when describing Adrian Beltre's increased performance at 3b.

So they're still 8 years behind the curve.

In all seriousness, though... seems like Ellis was the better choice at short and it wasn't all that close. I'm thrilled to see him win the award, and at least they didn't go with someone completely undeserving. The voters seem to have improved a bit over the years, but they appear to still have a long way to go. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeter got a few votes, despite him being the worst defensive shortstop in baseball.

[Savin Hillbilly]

So they're still 8 years behind the curve.

In all seriousness, though... seems like Ellis was the better choice at short and it wasn't all that close. I'm thrilled to see him win the award, and at least they didn't go with someone completely undeserving.

As has been pointed out in the MLB forum thread on this, Ellis may have lost points for only playing 117 games to Pedroia's 157.

And I think Pedroia is more than 'not completely undeserving,' he's worthy in his own right. It's fair to say that Ellis has the best range of the two, but Pedroia's range numbers are very good as well, and as we know, he has an extraordinarily accurate arm (448 assists without a throwing error in '08, which is the most in at least the last five years).