64 replies to this topic

[jdubbya]

Obviously tonight's game was a total disaster in terms of what MLB hoped to happen and what was actually going to happen. The forecast clearly showed rain, and while it doesn't look better tomorrow, they trotted everyone out for tonight and it was horrible. So now we get to the middle of the game, and clearly nobody knows what to do...thankfully, the Rays score a run to tie the game. Commissioner Selig suspends the game to a date TBD, even though the rules would indicate a Phillies win, due to the inning not being completed.

Now we go to post-game, where Selig basically says that the rules according to this series and game were made up on the spot by him. Joe Maddon toed the company line, but didn't have an answer when asked if he thought his team could lose the WS in a shortened game. While I think the most fair option was chosen, the World Series is coming down to a 3.5 inning sprint. Does Major League Baseball really need Bud Selig flying by the seat of his pants, making decisions and not keeping the participants abreast of the ongoings? He already ruined that All Star Game a few years ago and now he's behind the first suspended game in World Series history, a deciding game in fact.

I think it's time that the owners step in and replace Selig. No matter how much of an 'owner' guy he is...tonight was just another embarrassment in the tenure of Selig. The money that Selig may be saving the owners will be gone when he finally kills the sport to the point of irrelevancy.

Edited by jdubbya, 27 October 2008 - 11:52 PM.

[Rice4HOF]

Commissioner Selig suspends the game to a date TBD, even though the rules would indicate a Phillies win, due to the inning not being completed.

This was discussed in length in the game thread. The rules DO NOT indicate a Phillies win. If the visiting team ties or takes the lead, and then the game is stopped due to rain and the game is called, the score does NOT revert back to the last inning. This is something that was changed in the rules some time ago.

If Tampa had not tied up the game, the rules allow a delay of an indefinite amount of time. There is no difference (in the rules), between delaying a game for 20 minutes waiting for the rain to let up and delaying the game for 20 hours. (Although something like that would be unprecedented). Bottom line, Selig did not "make up the rule on the fly". The only thing he did wrong (IMO) is not articulating that clearly, and making listeners think he was making it up.

Having said all of this, I completely concur that he is a moron and needs to be replaced, but tonight's events are not the reason why,

[jdubbya]

Selig stated post-game that there was going to be 'no way that he allows the World Series to be won on a shortened game, no matter what' (paraphrasing). Neither ballclub was aware of this and the Rays clearly were relieved when they pushed that tying run across. I contend that nobody knew what the hell was going on and that in itself is a sign of incompetency and extremely poor leadership.

Now what happens if BJ Upton slips trying to steal 2nd or while rounding 3rd...does Bud still delay the game indefinitely? I think not, and they might have finished the game in the pouring rain. Black eye on the National Pastime's greatest stage.

[The Last DiMaggio]

I think it's time that the owners step in and replace Selig. No matter how much of an 'owner' guy he is...tonight was just another embarrassment in the tenure of Selig. The money that Selig may be saving the owners will be gone when he finally kills the sport to the point of irrelevancy.

Ain't happening. If the baseball owners were in charge of the upcoming election they would try to give Bush/Cheney a third term.

[Doctuh]

Ain't happening. If the baseball owners were in charge of the upcoming election they would try to give Bush/Cheney a third term.

I have been under the impression that is exactly what is happening. I think Bud has been keeping the seat warm for GWB since 2004. Condi will probably be the eventual commissioner of the NFL too. No joke.

[Captaincoop]

There is no difference (in the rules), between delaying a game for 20 minutes waiting for the rain to let up and delaying the game for 20 hours. (Although something like that would be unprecedented)

Ultimately, thanks to TB scoring in the 6th, the rules were followed last night, but it was ridiculous for Selig to come out prior to the game and announce that the game was going 9 innings no matter what. If he doesn't think 6-inning games are fair, then he should push for a rule change. But how can fans be expected to trust MLB when the commissioner just alters playing rules on a whim?

If you don't want a 6-inning game to decide the World Series, then don't start a game on a night when a huge rainstorm is expected. This was about another night of TV, pure and simple. Now Bud gets to milk another day of publicity and night of ad revenue out of this disappointing series.

Edited by Captaincoop, 28 October 2008 - 09:02 AM.

[SoxFan58]

Well, to be honest, Selig was within the rules:

Rule 4.11:

4.11 The score of a regulation game is the total number of runs scored by each team at the moment the game ends.

(a) The game ends when the visiting team completes its half of the ninth inning if the home team is ahead.

(b) The game ends when the ninth inning is completed, if the visiting team is ahead.

© If the home team scores the winning run in its half of the ninth inning (or its half of an extra inning after a tie), the game ends immediately when the winning run is scored.

EXCEPTION: If the last batter in a game hits a home run out of the playing field, the batter runner and all runners on base are permitted to score, in accordance with the base running rules, and the game ends when the batter runner touches home plate.

APPROVED RULING: The batter hits a home run out of the playing field to win the game in the last half of the ninth or an extra inning, but is called out for passing a preceding runner. The game ends immediately when the winning run is scored.

(d) A called game ends at the moment the umpire terminates play.

EXCEPTION: If the game is called while an inning is in progress and before it is completed, the game becomes a SUSPENDED game in each of the following situations:

(1) The visiting team has scored one or more runs to tie the score and the home team has not scored;

(2) The visiting team has scored one or more runs to take the lead and the home team has not tied the score or retaken the lead. National Association Leagues may also adopt the following rules for suspended games in addition to 4.11 (d) (1) & (2) above. (If adopted by a National Association League, Rule 4.10 © (d) & (e) would not apply to their games.):

(3) The game has not become a regulation game (4 1/2 innings with the home team ahead, or 5 innings with the visiting club ahead or tied).

(4) Any regulation game tied at the point play is stopped because of weather, curfew or other reason.

(5) If a game is suspended before it becomes a regulation game, and is continued prior to another regularly scheduled game, the regularly scheduled game will be limited to seven innings.

(6) If a game is suspended after it is a regulation game, and is continued prior to another regularly scheduled game, the regularly scheduled game will be a nine inning game.

EXCEPTION: The above sections (3), (4), (5) & (6) will not apply to the last scheduled game between the two teams during the championship season, or League Playoffs. Any suspended game not completed prior to the last scheduled game between the two teams during the championship season, will become a called game.

Rule 4.12, Suspended Games:

(5) Weather, if the game is called while an inning is in progress and before it is completed, and one of the following situations prevails:

(i) The visiting team has scored one or more runs to tie the score, and the home team has not scored.

(ii) The visiting team has scored one or more runs to take the lead, and the home team has not tied the score or retaken the lead.

(b) Such games shall be known as suspended games. No game called because of a curfew, weather, or a time limit shall be a suspended game unless it has progressed far enough to have been a regulation game under the provisions of Rule 4.10. A game called under the provisions of 4.12(a), (3) or (4) shall be a suspended game at any time after it starts.

NOTE: Weather and similar conditions_4.12 (a) (1 through 5)_shall take precedence in determining whether a called game shall be a suspended game. A game can only be considered a suspended game if stopped for any of the five (5) reasons specified in Section (a). Any regulation game called due to weather with the score tied (unless situation outlined in 4.12 (a) (5) (i) prevails) is a tie game and must be replayed in its entirety.

© A suspended game shall be resumed and completed as follows:

(1) Immediately preceding the next scheduled single game between the two clubs on the same grounds

Selig is right, here.

Edited by SoxFan58, 28 October 2008 - 11:02 AM.

[Koufax]

I contend that nobody knew what the hell was going on and that in itself is a sign of incompetency and extremely poor leadership.

Selig says he told the managers and the umpires before the game started exactly what he was going to do. I read today that both managers affirmed after that game that this was true.

[CaptainLaddie]

I don't love Bud Selig, but what the hell would you like him to do? Call the game? Have the final moment of the World Series be an ump raising his hands to tell us the game is over and one team running onto the field in celebration after they really earned that 5.5 inning win?

Come on people. Get real. You can argue that the game should have started earlier, or that they should have postponed it altogether, but to say that Selig was acting poorly by suspending the game is just acting stupid - you just don't like Bud.

[bankshot1]

Selig found himself in a no-win situation. and that's what we ended up with.

I don't think anyone would have wanted a 4 hour rain delay that culminated in a Selig's John Hancock on a rain-soaked 3AM Declaration of Inclement (HEH) WS victory.

To his credit, he had the foresight to inform the teams before the game of what his intentions were.

[RingoOSU]

The ONLY thing that went wrong last night that resulted in something happening for the first time in a 105 year history was that the game in the past probably wouldn't have been played in the first place. But the World Series has never, and should never be treated the same as a regular season game. No one wants to be the first commish to make a rain-shortened game, and Bud is right in suspending it. Where they went wrong was starting the game, and that call was not entirely in Bud's hands.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Selig found himself in a no-win situation. and that's what we ended up with.

I don't think anyone would have wanted a 4 hour rain delay that culminated in a Selig's John Hancock on a rain-soaked 3AM Declaration of Inclement (HEH) WS victory.

To his credit, he had the foresight to inform the teams before the game of what his intentions were.

I find the criticism of Selig here to be similar to the All Star Game in 2002. In both situations he found himself between a rock and a hard place and made the best decision he could. In the ASG, he called it a tie. It was absolutely not his fault that the two teams played to a tie to the point where both bullpens were depleted. It was an exhibition game that meant nothing and calling it a tie, while a shitty end to the game, was the right decision. There was no reason risk injury to tiring players at that point. Where he failed there was in making the All Star Game decide home field advantage in the World Series. The decision that night was fine, the change put in place for 2003 was retarded.

Last night, similar situation. No matter what choice he made, it was going to get shit on. So he made the best decision he could. And if you think it was entirely up to him whether that game was to be started last night, I think you're fooling yourself. The pressure from Fox must have been enormous.

There are plenty of reasons to want Selig out of the commisioner's office. Last night is not one of them, though.

[trekfan55]

I have been under the impression that is exactly what is happening. I think Bud has been keeping the seat warm for GWB since 2004. Condi will probably be the eventual commissioner of the NFL too. No joke.

1. I read somewhere that Selig is rtiring once his contract is up. Don't remember when it's up, but GWB is a big baseball fan (and former owner), I just don' see the owners being that dumb and making him commish.

2. Condi Rice has apparently been approached by the 49ers to be their team president when she leaves the administration. (Saw a crawl on ESPNNews on Monday) They had considered her for NFL Commish also when Tags retired.

Edited by trekfan55, 28 October 2008 - 10:11 AM.

[Average Reds]

The ONLY thing that went wrong last night that resulted in something happening for the first time in a 105 year history was that the game in the past probably wouldn't have been played in the first place. But the World Series has never, and should never be treated the same as a regular season game. No one wants to be the first commish to make a rain-shortened game, and Bud is right in suspending it. Where they went wrong was starting the game, and that call was not entirely in Bud's hands.

Can't have it both ways. Selig either has the power to treat the WS differently or he doesn't.

If he does have that power, he could have easily made the call himself and ordered a postponement of the game. Or, he could have moved the game up because anyone with a radar screen knew the rain was coming. If he doesn't have the power, then this notion that he was willing to go outside the rules to ensure a 9 inning game regardless of the situation - assuming the reports are true - is the worst possible outcome. We are lucky that it did not come to this.

Given the situation that Selig found himself in, he made the only call he could have made. But let's not ignore that Selig put himself in this situation by rolling the dice with the weather and the starting time. Once the rain came, he was left with no good options. IMO, he has no one to blame but himself for his lack of foresight.

[Rocco Graziosa]

Selig stated post-game that there was going to be 'no way that he allows the World Series to be won on a shortened game, no matter what' (paraphrasing). Neither ballclub was aware of this and the Rays clearly were relieved when they pushed that tying run across. I contend that nobody knew what the hell was going on and that in itself is a sign of incompetency and extremely poor leadership

This is the crux of whats going on here. The fact that both managers were forced to admit post game that they had no idea how this was gonig to play out (shortened game or suspended) speaks volumes to the (lack of) leadership of Selig and MLB. When sports fans think of MLB's commishioner the last decade or so, three things will come to mind......1) the shot of Selig putting his arms up in the air can calling the all star game a fucking TIE 2) the shot of Selig testifying before congress about the infestation of steriods in baseball and 3) his nervous fumblign press conference last night.....where he talked about the first world series game in the history of the sport wasn't played to its completion. This of course coming on the heels of a game three that ended at 2 am.

Well done sir.

[JimD]

This is the crux of whats going on here. The fact that both managers were forced to admit post game that they had no idea how this was gonig to play out (shortened game or suspended) speaks volumes to the (lack of) leadership of Selig and MLB.

According to multiple sources, the managers, team executives and the umpires all knew before game 5 that play might be suspended due to weather, but the full nine innings would be played.

[SoxFan58]

According to multiple sources, the managers, team executives and the umpires all knew before game 5 that play might be suspended due to weather, but the full nine innings would be played.

Because it's in the rules.

[smastroyin]

According to multiple sources, the managers, team executives and the umpires all knew before game 5 that play might be suspended due to weather, but the full nine innings would be played.

yes. With this knowledge in hand I have to assume the confusion was over why the umpires were letting the game continue in those conditions when everyone knew the game would continue anyway.

[pk1627]

According to multiple sources, the managers, team executives and the umpires all knew before game 5 that play might be suspended due to weather, but the full nine innings would be played.

And somehow this wasn't conveyed to the media - and hence us? I smell coverup.

If such a plan was in place, the game should have been suspended at the conclusion of the 5th. But they played on, I believe, desperately hoping that the top of the Rays order could scratch out a run in the slop. They did, and the slop played a factor in it. Then the game was immediately suspended.

Why? Because the pressure would have been enormous to call the game if one team was ahead.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Bud's mistake is to let Fox's needs drive his decisions instead of the needs of players and fans to see baseball played in proper conditions. They never should have started the game last night and its arguable that they shouldn't have played game 4 either. But playing havoc with Fox's schedule is a no-no, no matter that games end at 2 am or that players might get hurt or that viewers have to watch subpar games in terrible conditions. And just think about the people in the stands who paid hundreds of dollars to watch a game in a 39 degree rain storm - shudder.

Bets that if that 1989 earthquake happened today, Bud would have refused to interrupt the A's Giants Series?

Edited by Kevin Mortons Ghost, 28 October 2008 - 12:04 PM.

[Rocco Graziosa]

And somehow this wasn't conveyed to the media - and hence us? I smell coverup.

If such a plan was in place, the game should have been suspended at the conclusion of the 5th. But they played on, I believe, desperately hoping that the top of the Rays order could scratch out a run in the slop. They did, and the slop played a factor in it. Then the game was immediately suspended.

Why? Because the pressure would have been enormous to call the game if one team was ahead.

yeah and on top of that Madden in his post game press conference admitted he had no idea what the outcome of the game was gonna be while it was being played. (suspension/shortened game) He didn't look like he was lying to me. You can say til your blue in the face that this was all planned out beforehand but I'll never believe it. That post game press conference was a mess and NO ONE knew exactly what was going on.

[PseuFighter]

Is there anything in the rules that indicates when a rain delayed game becomes a suspended game? That being, what's not to say this is just one long rain delay (as indicated by the umpires) that will resume this evening versus a game being actually suspended? Would the curfew rule come into play?

[ThreeIfByAir]

According to multiple sources, the managers, team executives and the umpires all knew before game 5 that play might be suspended due to weather, but the full nine innings would be played.

According to Maddon's press conference after the game, the team executives knew, but the managers didn't. He said Andrew Friedman and Pat Gillick were in the meeting with Selig before the game, but that he was not. Presumably this also indicates that Friedman didn't brief Maddon.

[Drew7]

According to Maddon's press conference after the game, the team executives knew, but the managers didn't. He said Andrew Friedman and Pat Gillick were in the meeting with Selig before the game, but that he was not. Presumably this also indicates that Friedman didn't brief Maddon.

This is bullshit on so many levels. This is not directed towards you, but more towards "maddon not knowing". If its true what the managers didn't attend the "secret weather" meeting (which is complete bullshit) and only the team executives did, you're telling me that the the team execs didnt relay that OH SO FUCKING important information to their team manager? With a possible world series elimination game on the line?
And the umps would have had to be at that meeting, no? You dont think at least one time the question was asked my maddon concerning to the weather to one of the umps between innings?
I CALL BULLSHIT.

p.s. i kinda had some interest/liking for maddon (but hated the rays) during the season, but the more exposure the guy gets, the more i think hes a fucking douche. A little TOO much into his own "philosophy".
"how did you make the lineup today joe?"
"well, im so cool and OUT THERE that i read a self help book, listened to the stones and it gave me the answer of Rocco Baldelli in right field tonight. Isnt that mystical? If it was The Boss I might have started Gross, but the stones = baldelli"
get over yourself maddon.


EDITED FOR CRAZINESS

Edited by Drew7, 28 October 2008 - 01:55 PM.

[MoGator71]

The problem is that Bud's prime directive is $$$ and hence network whim. No way should that game have started, and no way should it have continued as long as it did. Imagine this happened to the Sox, and they got dicked out of a Beckett start in an elimination game over this? People would be going fucking berzerk.

p.s. i kinda had some interest/liking for maddon (but hated the rays) during the season, but the more exposure the guy gets, the more i think hes a fucking douche. A little TOO much into his own "philosophy".
"how did you make the lineup today joe?"
"well, im so cool and OUT THERE that i read a self help book, listened to the stones and it gave me the answer of Rocco Baldelli in right field tonight. Isnt that mystical? If it was The Boss I might have started Gross, but the stones = baldelli"
get over yourself maddon.
EDITED FOR CRAZINESS

I totally agree. He's turning into the MLB version of Phil Jackson minus Shaq, Kobe, MJ, and a bunch of rings. Right down to the ump-baiting and grandstanding in his postgame Press Conferences.

[Max Power]

This is the crux of whats going on here. The fact that both managers were forced to admit post game that they had no idea how this was gonig to play out (shortened game or suspended) speaks volumes to the (lack of) leadership of Selig and MLB. When sports fans think of MLB's commishioner the last decade or so, three things will come to mind......1) the shot of Selig putting his arms up in the air can calling the all star game a fucking TIE 2) the shot of Selig testifying before congress about the infestation of steriods in baseball and 3) his nervous fumblign press conference last night.....where he talked about the first world series game in the history of the sport wasn't played to its completion. This of course coming on the heels of a game three that ended at 2 am.

Well done sir.

And who cares what three things sports fans think of when they look back on Selig?

The owners? They're making more money than they ever have and frachise values have exploded.

The players? Their guaranteed contracts are better than anything in any other sport, they're making more than ever, and with revenue sharing they have more realistic places to work than before.

The media? Selig seems to be on good terms with most of them and those who aren't can put out easy columns that rip him apart like everyone else.

The viewers at home? Playoff games are stuck on a TV schedule set for maximum eyes on the screen. And more of their teams are in the playoff hunt every year.

I agree that Selig looks like a buffoon most of the time, but why does it matter? I don't see any objective measure of how the game isn't healthier now than when he first took over.

[Drew7]

I totally agree. He's turning into the MLB version of Phil Jackson minus Shaq, Kobe, MJ, and a bunch of rings. Right down to the ump-baiting and grandstanding in his postgame Press Conferences.

I'm glad I'm not alone. this issue about him has been building and bothering me for weeks.

[PseuFighter]

is there a video of this press conference anywhere?

[Drew7]

now Francesa is saying that Maddon said he didnt tell his team that they wouldnt call the series on account of rain, so his team would be on edge.
grain of salt...

[Philip Jeff Frye]

The viewers at home? Playoff games are stuck on a TV schedule set for maximum eyes on the screen.

Did anybody viewing at home enjoy watching last night's game? I guess it had a certain "can't look away from a trainwreck" appeal, but the game was a joke - its amazing that nobody got hurt. Can't call the infield fly rule because its not clear that the infielder can see the ball? That's absurd.

Its astonishing how little MLB thinks of its product that its willing to debase itself to almost any extent to satisfy Fox's needs. Heaven forbid that Fox (which bid on the broadcasting rights knowing that rainouts are a risk) has to delay a broadcast of House in order that the World Championship be determined on a field without standing mud puddles.

Edited by Kevin Mortons Ghost, 28 October 2008 - 03:51 PM.

[JimD]

now Francesa is saying that Maddon said he didnt tell his team that they wouldnt call the series on account of rain, so his team would be on edge.
grain of salt...

ESPN's Mike & Mike were also talking about this on their show this morning. It certainly seems to indicate that Maddon knew the game wouldn't be called if the rain interrupted.

[Rocco Graziosa]

Did anybody viewing at home enjoy watching last night's game? I guess it had a certain "can't look away from a trainwreck" appeal, but the game was a joke - its amazing that nobody got hurt. Can't call the infield fly rule because its not clear that the infielder can see the ball? That's absurd.

Its astonishing how little MLB thinks of its product that its willing to debase itself to almost any extent to satisfy Fox's needs. Heaven forbid that Fox (which bid on the broadcasting rights knowing that rainouts are a risk) has to delay a broadcast of House in order that the World Championship be determined on a field without standing mud puddles.

Bingo. And to me, this is all on Selig.

[Drew7]

Seling on the Michael Kay show:

1. Managers knew beforehand that the game wouldnt be decided by rainout.
2. He did not talk to FOX for permission to call a delay. (called that notion "Nonsense")
3. 4 Different weather services predicted less than 1/10 of an inch of rain between 8pm & 12am.
4. Says he can't commission over mother nature.

EDIT: I CANT FUCKING TYPE

Edited by Drew7, 28 October 2008 - 05:42 PM.

[Fred not Lynn]

When sports fans think of MLB's commishioner the last decade or so, three things will come to mind......1) the shot of Selig putting his arms up in the air can calling the all star game a fucking TIE 2) the shot of Selig testifying before congress about the infestation of steriods in baseball and 3) his nervous fumblign press conference last night.....

I might also think of 1.) The success of the World Baseball Classic and 2.) The 2004 wild card Boston Red Sox becoming World Series Champions.

[leftfieldlegacy]

Seling on the Michael Kay show:
3. 4 Different weather services predicted less than 1/10 of an inch of rain between 8pm & 12am.

During the game, I could've sworn I heard Buck say that the weather service called for 1/10 of an inch of rain per hour from 8-12. afterwhich the rainfall would become heavier. Regardless, the game should've been called before it started, because there was no forecast that predicted any sort of clearing trend once the rain began. I put that wrong decision squarely on Selig. Once they started however, he made the right call to suspend the game and finish all 9 innings.

[sass a thon]

During the game, I could've sworn I heard Buck say that the weather service called for 1/10 of an inch of rain per hour from 8-12. afterwhich the rainfall would become heavier. Regardless, the game should've been called before it started, because there was no forecast that predicted any sort of clearing trend once the rain began. I put that wrong decision squarely on Selig. Once they started however, he made the right call to suspend the game and finish all 9 innings.

You heard right - that is exactly what Buck said. He also said the groundscrew felt comfortable the field could handle that. Did they end up getting more rain than 1/10 inch per hour? Because that field certainly couldn't handle it and I can't imagine that groundscrew could be so far off.

[leftfieldlegacy]

You heard right - that is exactly what Buck said. He also said the groundscrew felt comfortable the field could handle that. Did they end up getting more rain than 1/10 inch per hour? Because that field certainly couldn't handle it and I can't imagine that groundscrew could be so far off.

There was a Philly weather guy on WFAN today who said his model was for the light rain until 10PM, then more intense. He also said that his forecast was off by about 30 minutes as the rain intensified around 9:30. I guess the grounds crew comment probably referred to the 1/10" / hour.

[Rice4HOF]

Is there anything in the rules that indicates when a rain delayed game becomes a suspended game?

No.

That being, what's not to say this is just one long rain delay (as indicated by the umpires) that will resume this evening versus a game being actually suspended?

The difference is that during a rain delay, a game can be restarted at any point (once the skies clear / field made playable), and a suspended game is stopped indefinitely and will not resume prior to setting a scheduled time.

Would the curfew rule come into play?

No. The curfew rule is only in effect in the AL, in the regular season and for games that are not during a team's last visit to an opponent's stadium. (i.e. if it's in September and it's Texas last visit to Fenway and a game is running late, they wave the curfew rule and just keep playing). Also note that there is no curfew rule in the NL.

[Average Reds]

So Bud Selig has now admitted that his plan was to ignore the plain language of the rulebook because he didn't agree with it.

I have three specific issues with this:

• Regardless of whether I agree with his decision or not - and for the record, I think that mandating WS games be complete games is a good thing - it sets a bad precedent for the commissioner of baseball to change rules on the fly based on his personal opinion.
• The decision to do this was reported to have been made on Saturday. If true, it is inexcusable that this was not communicated to the players and fans ahead of time. Inexcusable.
• If they planned to suspend the game due to weather regardless of the score, it is scandalous that Selig allowed the teams to play the top of the 6th in conditions that were completely unplayable.

Had they made the announcement of this change ahead of time, they would not have hesitated to stop the game last night when the weather got out of hand in the 5th inning. But they were so afraid of the criticism that would come with such a move that they kept playing until Tampa Bay took the heat off them by scoring in the top of the 6th. Only when this happened did they feel comfortable stopping the game and telling us how thankful they were that they didn't have to stop the game and suspend it in violation of the rules.

You cannot run things is a more ass-backward, unethical and cowardly fashion than Bud Selig did last night.

[moonshotmanny]

Did anybody viewing at home enjoy watching last night's game? I guess it had a certain "can't look away from a trainwreck" appeal, but the game was a joke - its amazing that nobody got hurt. Can't call the infield fly rule because its not clear that the infielder can see the ball? That's absurd.

Its astonishing how little MLB thinks of its product that its willing to debase itself to almost any extent to satisfy Fox's needs. Heaven forbid that Fox (which bid on the broadcasting rights knowing that rainouts are a risk) has to delay a broadcast of House in order that the World Championship be determined on a field without standing mud puddles.

I didn't enjoy it. I thought they should not have been playing. And since they were going up against MNF, I think the smart decision would have been to play the game on another day.

[jayhoz]

So Bud Selig has now admitted that his plan was to ignore the plain language of the rulebook because he didn't agree with it.

I have three specific issues with this:

• Regardless of whether I agree with his decision or not - and for the record, I think that mandating WS games be complete games is a good thing - it sets a bad precedent for the commissioner of baseball to change rules on the fly based on his personal opinion.
• The decision to do this was reported to have been made on Saturday. If true, it is inexcusable that this was not communicated to the players and fans ahead of time. Inexcusable.
• If they planned to suspend the game due to weather regardless of the score, it is scandalous that Selig allowed the teams to play the top of the 6th in conditions that were completely unplayable.

Had they made the announcement of this change ahead of time, they would not have hesitated to stop the game last night when the weather got out of hand in the 5th inning. But they were so afraid of the criticism that would come with such a move that they kept playing until Tampa Bay took the heat off them by scoring in the top of the 6th. Only when this happened did they feel comfortable stopping the game and telling us how thankful they were that they didn't have to stop the game and suspend it in violation of the rules.

You cannot run things is a more ass-backward, unethical and cowardly fashion than Bud Selig did last night.

I think the decisions made last night fit pretty well with the plain language of the rulebook.

3.10
(a) The manager of the home team shall be the sole judge as to whether a game shall be started because of unsuitable weather conditions or the unfit condition of the playing field, except for the second game of a doubleheader. EXCEPTION: Any league may permanently authorize its president to suspend the application of this rule as to that league during the closing weeks of its championship season in order to assure that the championship is decided each year on its merits. When the postponement of, and possible failure to play, a game in the final series of a championship season between any two teams might affect the final standing of any club in the league, the president, on appeal from any league club, may assume the authority granted the home team manager by this rule.

© The umpire-in-chief shall be the sole judge as to whether and when play shall be suspended during a game because of unsuitable weather conditions or the unfit condition of the playing field; as to whether and when the play shall be resumed after such suspension; and as to whether and when a game shall be terminated after such suspension. He shall not call the game until at least thirty minutes after he has suspended play. He may continue the suspension as long as he believes there is any chance to resume play.
Rule 3.10© Comment: The umpire-in-chief shall at all times try to complete a game. His authority to resume play following one or more suspensions of as much as thirty minutes each shall be absolute and he shall terminate a game only when there appears to be no possibility of completing it.

[Rocco Graziosa]

So Bud Selig has now admitted that his plan was to ignore the plain language of the rulebook because he didn't agree with it.

I have three specific issues with this:

• Regardless of whether I agree with his decision or not - and for the record, I think that mandating WS games be complete games is a good thing - it sets a bad precedent for the commissioner of baseball to change rules on the fly based on his personal opinion.
• The decision to do this was reported to have been made on Saturday. If true, it is inexcusable that this was not communicated to the players and fans ahead of time. Inexcusable.
• If they planned to suspend the game due to weather regardless of the score, it is scandalous that Selig allowed the teams to play the top of the 6th in conditions that were completely unplayable.

Had they made the announcement of this change ahead of time, they would not have hesitated to stop the game last night when the weather got out of hand in the 5th inning. But they were so afraid of the criticism that would come with such a move that they kept playing until Tampa Bay took the heat off them by scoring in the top of the 6th. Only when this happened did they feel comfortable stopping the game and telling us how thankful they were that they didn't have to stop the game and suspend it in violation of the rules.

You cannot run things is a more ass-backward, unethical and cowardly fashion than Bud Selig did last night.

As usual AR, you dumb things down and cut to the heart of the matter. Your post is SPOT on, especially the bolded part.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 28 October 2008 - 10:22 PM.

[Drew7]

During the game, I could've sworn I heard Buck say that the weather service called for 1/10 of an inch of rain per hour from 8-12. afterwhich the rainfall would become heavier. Regardless, the game should've been called before it started, because there was no forecast that predicted any sort of clearing trend once the rain began. I put that wrong decision squarely on Selig. Once they started however, he made the right call to suspend the game and finish all 9 innings.

you could be right re: what Buck said (as someone else pointed out), but one of the "weather people" he was in contact with was the Philly Ground Crew manager (or whatever the fuck you call that guy).
He said during the 5th inning he went down to talk to the Ground Crew Manager, and the guy told him that there wasnt anything to worry about yet.

Im just confused as to why the people saying Selig fucked this up royally? Yes i agree he should have stopped it sooner, but are these same people saying he should never have started the game in the first place?
Im not sure how i feel about that.

you all can go to 1050espnradio.com and d/l the interview.

Edited by Drew7, 28 October 2008 - 11:02 PM.

[Max Power]

So Bud Selig has now admitted that his plan was to ignore the plain language of the rulebook because he didn't agree with it.

Point us all to the specific language in the rulebook which he ignored. Where does it say a rain delay can't last 48 hours?

[Drew7]

Point us all to the specific language in the rulebook which he ignored. Where does it say a rain delay can't last 48 hours?

agreed. i think a lot of people are missing this point. caller after caller today on WFAN arguing that he was making up rules as he went along, clearly missing that point that it was a "RAIN DELAY".
a good question Michael Kay brought up was if the game was called in the 4th inning, would they have followed the rules and wiped out the Philly runs and start again the next/day after?
Im assuming yes, and wouldnt the philly fans be pissing and moaning about the other side of the coin right now

[jayhoz]

Point us all to the specific language in the rulebook which he ignored. Where does it say a rain delay can't last 48 hours?

Exactly. Per the rules I cited above the decision to suspend and when/if to resume play is at the discretion of the officials. The game is currently suspended and officials will decide when it should be resumed.

[PseuFighter]

What happens when a rain delay goes into curfew?

[Freddy Linn]

Selig spelled backwards is Giles.

That explains everything in this now bizarro series.

[gaelgirl]

Bets that if that 1989 earthquake happened today, Bud would have refused to interrupt the A's Giants Series?

Jeez. It wasn't a heavy rainstorm. For some reason, I don't think that Bud Selig would insist that a game be played in a ballpark with no power that nobody was sure was safe or wouldn't fall apart in an aftershock. Part of the Bay Bridge, several freeway sections and a large portion of the Marina District collapsed. There were thousands of people made homeless and predictions of hundreds of deaths (which later turned out to be overly grim, mostly because it didn't account for the extremely light commute traffic due to the game). So... yeah, I don't think was a difficult decision to call the game and indefinitely postpone the Series.

As for the game last night, there is absolutely no way it should have been played that long. The field was ridiculous, the conditions were ridiculous. I am torn on whether or not the game should be resumed at the bottom of the sixth or scrapped and replayed. It seems inherently unfair somehow that the Rays played the top half of the inning in a driving rainstorm and the Phillies will presumably not play the bottom of the inning in the same conditions. I don't know that the advantage goes to the Rays or Phillies, but someone has an unequal advantage. It's not such a big deal when there are 161 other games to even out the advantages, but when it's the possibly deciding game of the World Series, it doesn't sit well with me. Yeah, conditions change from inning to inning, but usually not that dramatically.

Selig takes a large part of the blame from me, but not because of his unilateral decisions. I agree the World Series shouldn't end on a rain-shortened game. It robs everyone involved.

However, there is no way the postseason should be happening this late in the year. Something has to be changed. I don't want the season shortened, but there are ways to play 162 games in a slightly shorter amount of time. Everyone needs to get over themselves and MLB should start scheduling double headers or take away a few off days or both to shave a about a week off the season. The playoff schedule is ridiculous. There should be no random days off for TV purposes, where two teams hang out for an off day between games in the same city. There has to be a better way. I don't trust the Selig will find it, though. I hear Game 7 of the 2009 series would happen on November 7th.

[Average Reds]

Point us all to the specific language in the rulebook which he ignored. Where does it say a rain delay can't last 48 hours?

Exactly. Per the rules I cited above the decision to suspend and when/if to resume play is at the discretion of the officials. The game is currently suspended and officials will decide when it should be resumed.

Does it make any sense for Selig to acknowledge that he had notified the teams of his plans to modify the rule on suspended games and the fact that he was prepared to implement this change had the game not been tied when he could have gotten around the whole thing by just declaring a muti-day rain delay?

You are torturing logic here folks.