117 replies to this topic

[behindthepen]

edited the title. It's hard to believe that there is a competition between the quality of their announcers and their operations.

for whatever reason, the game is not on TBS right now (on fios at least)....

Edited by behindthepen, 19 October 2008 - 02:22 PM.

[The Flying Dutchman]

for whatever reason, the game is not on TBS right now (on fios at least)....

Rumor is a power outage in Atlanta, live feed here

http://mlb.mlb.com/m...orner/index.jsp

[templeUsox]

Poorly produced.

[reggiecleveland]

I got "the girls of hooters" while it was out

[Rice4HOF]

I got "the girls of hooters" while it was out

Yea - I got my XM radio and was listening to it while watching the girls. I had mixed feelings when the feed came back up.

[joyofsox]

Yea - I got my XM radio and was listening to it while watching the girls. I had mixed feelings when the feed came back up.

There were some serious tits on that show. Hard to concentrate on Miller/Morgan.

[Fred not Lynn]

Yea - I got my XM radio and was listening to it while watching the girls. I had mixed feelings when the feed came back up.

My wife just hollered to me in the basement that the game didn't seem to be on yet - so I didn't go upstairs. She didn't happen to mention the alternative programming I was missing.

[Williams Head Case]

I had Steve Harvey here in California. At least now I know it's a terrible show.

[NomarRS05]

It was unacceptable. Something like this should cost TBS during the next contract negotiations with MLB. Or however it works.

[paulftodd]

It was unacceptable. Something like this should cost TBS during the next contract negotiations with MLB. Or however it works.

I got the game uninterrupted as ESPN Int'l was broadcasting it outside the US and was not affected by TBS problem. TBS of course lost 20 minutes of advertising revenue, that must hurt. But this is a wakeup call, contingency plans should be in place.

[wyatt55]

TBS of course lost 20 minutes of advertising revenue, that must hurt. But this is a wakeup call, contingency plans should be in place.

Which they made up with the umpiring switch, the lucky bastids.

If it was an Atlanta power outage, MLB might take it easier on them. If it was TBS's fault, it should be it their ass.

[Harry Hooper]

Which they made up with the umpiring switch, the lucky bastids.

If it was an Atlanta power outage, MLB might take it easier on them. If it was TBS's fault, it should be it their ass.

Power outage doesn't excuse shit. You build in redundant data linkages and backup power supplies as a major events broadcaster. TBS used to be technically superior in it Braves broadcasts back in Ted Turner's glory days, but years of cost-cutting bit them in the ass tonight. Thanks, Bud, for letting a cheapass outfit broadcast playoff games.

[jtn46]

I run into this kind of issue a lot where I work. For one thing, Atlanta losing power shouldn't completely erase their ability to air a game. They should have a UPS system with generators to handle this at that facility.

Also, they clearly had a functioning satellite feed they were able to broadcast over the web and overseas, it's completely inexcusable that they could not get that feed onto TBS. Where I work, we have so many contingency plans prepared for exactly these kinds of situations (during the big blackout a few years ago all of our networks stayed on the air...2 years ago our facility caught fire and we stayed on the air).

MLB has every right to be furious, especially because TBS did baseball forever and has to have dealt with situations like this. I mean, can you imagine how furious the NFL would be if say, NBC pulled something like this on SNF? It's been said already, but I guarantee you if the ALCS is on Fox, a real network, this doesn't happen. It's rinky-dink bullshit. I mean, you should see the shitstorm we get in here over 5 minutes of interruption, TBS missed a half hour of the biggest sporting event the network has!

[Mugsys Jock]

I work in cable programminng for the Viacom networks, and have also spent my time at HBO and at Rainbow (AMC, Sportschannel, IFC, Bravo at the time, etc). You can't believe the quintuple redundancy systems those networks have at their network operations centers. It's joked that if there were a nuclear war, Cinemax Friday After Dark would continue without missing a frame... but it's no joke. I can't imagine how those networks would go off the air.

I'm amazed TBS didn't at the least have a facility available to them somewhere in Atlanta where they could have rapidly put together a jerryrigged studio show to make sure folks could at least be told what was going on. Or put live play-by-play into the crawl that was airing over Steve Harvey -- instead of simply having the uninformative "We're having technical difficulties" notification. They certainly could have gotten some kind of coverage from one of their sister CNN networks -- switching over the feed from Headline News, for instance, with a sports reporter in that studio providing updates.

Turner was hit hard about a year ago when they ran a promotional stunt for a Cartoon Network show that involved hiding devices that looked like bombs all over a number of cities -- most notably Boston. Heads rolled then. More should roll now.

[Mugsys Jock]

One more thing I thought of...

MLB might not be so upset by this after all.

They're launching The MLB Network next year, and the master plan there, you'd think, would be for that network to assume a large part of the cable package for national game telecasts. It's going to be a long slog for them to get the cable affiliates on board at the price they need (much like the NFL Network), but the shoddy showing by TBS eliminates one arugment from the Comcasts and Time Warner Cables of the world: "Why add a new baseball network when TBS and ESPN do a perfectly good job?"

One more thing -- the brand new head of Advertising Sales at The Baseball Network is the former head of Advertising Sales at Turner Sports. Just sayin'

[Philip Jeff Frye]

It was unacceptable. Something like this should cost TBS during the next contract negotiations with MLB. Or however it works.

If TBS is there with the almighty dollar, Bud will figure out a way to rationalize it.

I'm amazed TBS didn't at the least have a facility available to them somewhere in Atlanta where they could have rapidly put together a jerryrigged studio show to make sure folks could at least be told what was going on. Or put live play-by-play into the crawl that was airing over Steve Harvey -- instead of simply having the uninformative "We're having technical difficulties" notification. They certainly could have gotten some kind of coverage from one of their sister CNN networks -- switching over the feed from Headline News, for instance, with a sports reporter in that studio providing updates.

Did they even do this? I didn't tune in until about 8:05 so maybe they'd already made an announcement, but I never saw anything on TBS that indicated there was supposed to be something on other than that stupid sitcom. No crawl at the bottom of the screen or announcement during the commercial breaks. Also, nothing on the TBS website, or on MLB.com for that matter. I thought I had gone insane - did I get the time of the game wrong, or did Fox have a right to air it because the NLCS ended so soon, or something else? A complete FU by TBS and MLB to their viewers.

And speaking of FUs, thanks Chip Carey for telling us we didn't miss anything important anyway.

Edited by Kevin Mortons Ghost, 19 October 2008 - 07:53 AM.

[mrsbeasley]

If TBS is there with the almighty dollar, Bud will figure out a way to rationalize it.
Did they even do this? I didn't tune in until about 8:05 so maybe they'd already made an announcement, but I never saw anything on TBS that indicated there was supposed to be something on other than that stupid sitcom. No crawl at the bottom of the screen or announcement during the commercial breaks. Also, nothing on the TBS website, or on MLB.com for that matter. I thought I had gone insane - did I get the time of the game wrong, or did Fox have a right to air it because the NLCS ended so soon, or something else? A complete FU by TBS and MLB to their viewers.

And speaking of FUs, thanks Chip Carey for telling us we didn't miss anything important anyway.

We didn't get any indicators either. Others online noted that they did, though, and NESN showed it as the open to Sports Desk last night so, apparently, they showed it in some areas.

I know Caray generally sucks, but I was stunned when he said that we didn't miss anything important. A pick-off play, a home run...nah, we didn't miss a thing. Go along with your lives folks, nothing to see here in a possible elimination playoff game.

[bsj]

A buddy of mine who used to work at ESPN said that TBS was a joke for pulling the shit they did. He used to work the control rooms, and something very related to the type incident that happened. He said he pulled a feed from an international stream for a short period of time until the situation resolved itself, and let corporate deal with the repercussions ($$$) later, which is something they are instructed to do. Last night, ESPN was broadcasting the game internationally.

[mabrowndog]

Kudos to Joe Castiglione and especially Dale Arnold for picking up the slack early in the 'EEI radio broadcast. Dale repeatedly informed listeners why TBS went dark (power outage) and provided several brief recaps of what had already happened in the game to help bring those tuning in late up to speed. I'm not a huge fan of Dale's baseball broadcasting style (peppy and abrupt, which is perfect for hockey but too energetic for the diamond's ebb and flow) but he showed last night why he's an industry pro.

TBS of course lost 20 minutes of advertising revenue, that must hurt.

More like 40 minutes. They forfeited about 20 minutes of lead-in revenue, which is among the priciest commercial time in TV sports.

they could have rapidly put together a jerryrigged studio show to make sure folks could at least be told what was going on.

You mean "jury rigged"?

Awesome. That's right up there with "peddle stool".

Your point is correct, though. Considering the collective broadcasting infrastructure of parent firm Time-Warner, TBS had plenty of resources to implement.

A month from now will mark the 40th anniversary of the "Heidi Game," which still stands as the darkest moment of sports broadcasting ineptitude. I brought this up last night and some said the Heidi game was worse because there was a decision made to switch away, as opposed to an accident or equipment failure causing the breach.

Bullshit, I say. The Heidi Game occurred long before the networks were aware of just how large their sports viewing audiences were. In fact, the public outcry in its wake is what really let TV execs know how important -- and profitable -- national sports broadcasts could be.

There is nothing more important to a viewing audience than uninterrupted coverage of an event. TBS and its corporate brethren have been aware of this history for decades, and it's clear that they, too, made a conscious decision -- to ignore the absolute need to create a fool-proof contingency plan. It's completely inexcusable.

[Mugsys Jock]

Did they even do this?

Hearing that others didn't see the notification of technical difficulties, I have to assume that some heads-up technician at Time Warner Cable figured out what was going on and anticipated the freak-out from viewers and got a notification on at the head-end here in NYC. So, yeah, TBS didn't even do that.

Edit: Heard on the radio this morning that the nature of the circuit burnout at their NOC meant they couldn't even get a live crawl up. If that's true, then their systems are prehistoric, and their disaster-recovery planning is a joke. Believe me, when I was at HBO (a Time Warner sister company) this NEVER could have happened... they had disaster-recovery down to a science, we were all trained in it, and rehearsed a few times a year. Viacom also has well-articulated and distributed procedures in place... as, I sure, does every other major corporation the size of TBS.

for instance, IF they couldn't get a crawl on the air, they should have sent an emergency notification to every cable operator about what was going on with instructions to get an on-screen graphic on the air at the cable operator level.

"jerryrigged"... operating as if jerry remy built the system

Edited by Mugsys Jock, 19 October 2008 - 09:03 AM.

[hunter05]

There was a crawl at the bottom apologizing for their technical difficulties and providing score updates until the feed was up. But it wasn't right away. I woke up and turned the game on only to be greeted by the Steve Harvey show. I think it took them at least 10-15 minutes to get a message up. I was flipping to TNT, FOX, ESPN, everywhere and wondering why I was not watching the Sox game. I won't pretend to understand how accidents like that happen, but between it taking them far too long to get a message to viewers and Caray's comment about not missing anything important, I was furious.

[Captaincoop]

TBS has been subpar in a lot of ways in their postseason baseball coverage. I'd love to think that MLB would take last night's debacle into account when the contract is up again, but knowing Bud Selig and the MLB, I'm sure there will be no repercussions for TBS beyond the inevitable refunding/make-good of lost advertising time.

And as for above, "jerry-rigged" is a pretty widely accepted term, separate from "jury-rigged." I believe it is actually a cleaned-up version of an offensive expression that was widely in use years ago. I really hate the grammar police schtick, so I thought I'd point that out.

[Soxfan in Fla]

I helped run a web hosting facility for 3 years. Granted it is plenty different but nonetheless we HAD to have that thing up and running 24/7/365 EVERY FREAKING SECOND. The redundancy we had was amazing. We had redundancy for the actual internet pipe and also obviously for power. We had 7 large generators with enough fuel capacity to run the entire facility for approximately 20 hours before needing fuel. We were also 3rd in line right behind hospitals and I can't think of the other on an emergency fuel basis so we were in pretty good shape even in the event of a hurricane. Oh yeah, the facility was built to withstand a CAT5 hurricane. In other words, nothing would allow that facility to go down and nothing would interrupt the hosting feed for many websites and many corporations who stored their data at the site and were accessing it 24/7. The fact that TBS did not have a setup that could avoid this is just inexcusable. This should cost them any shot at a future contract IMO.

[B H Kim]

There was a crawl at the bottom apologizing for their technical difficulties and providing score updates until the feed was up. But it wasn't right away. I woke up and turned the game on only to be greeted by the Steve Harvey show. I think it took them at least 10-15 minutes to get a message up. I was flipping to TNT, FOX, ESPN, everywhere and wondering why I was not watching the Sox game. I won't pretend to understand how accidents like that happen, but between it taking them far too long to get a message to viewers and Caray's comment about not missing anything important, I was furious.

The TBS HD feed over DirecTV didn't have a crawl.

My question is why didn't MLB delay the start of the game? If a network TV outage knocked coverage of an NFL playoff game off the air 15 minutes before kickoff, does anyone think that the NFL would have gone ahead and started the game anyway?

[reggiecleveland]

http://www.wsu.edu:8...rors/jerry.html

Although their etymologies are obscure and their meanings overlap, these are two distinct expressions. Something poorly built is “jerry-built.” Something rigged up temporarily in a makeshift manner with materials at hand, often in an ingenious manner, is “jury-rigged.” “Jerry-built” always has a negative connotation, whereas one can be impressed by the cleverness of a jury-rigged solution. Many people cross-pollinate these two expressions and mistakenly say “jerry-rigged” or “jury-built.”

[Soxfan in Fla]

The TBS HD feed over DirecTV didn't have a crawl.

My question is why didn't MLB delay the start of the game? If a network TV outage knocked coverage of an NFL playoff game off the air 15 minutes before kickoff, does anyone think that the NFL would have gone ahead and started the game anyway?

Yes it did. I remember seeing it. Took them awhile to get one up and they'd only run it through twice every couple of minutes but they eventually had one up there and right before the feed came back on they were even giving the wrong score at 0-0 despite the fact it was already 1-0.

[LoweTek]

There is nothing more important to a viewing audience than uninterrupted coverage of an event. TBS and its corporate brethren have been aware of this history for decades, and it's clear that they, too, made a conscious decision -- to ignore the absolute need to create a fool-proof contingency plan. It's completely inexcusable.

From my experience, the power failure explanation is likely BS. There had to be human intervention. They probably upgraded a router OS earlier in the day or something like that. Bad Change Management - the cause of 95% plus of all system failures (some would say closer to 99%). I'd be willing to bet when the dust clears the truth will be nothing to do with power or something to do with power back up systems which were somehow made ineffective by something somebody did.

[Eric Van]

My question is, is there any plan to rebroadcast the missing inning? They showed us every "play" they missed, but they still left some basic questions unanswered. E.g., how many times did Shields throw over before picking Coco off? And there are plenty of hardcore amateur scouting types who would like to see and chart every pitch, plenty of folks who are dubbing every game of the playoffs and would like to have a complete copy.

The failure to put of a "technical difficulties" crawl for 20 minutes (or was it 50 counting the pre-game?) is mind-boggling and inexcusable.

[bsj]

One more comment...was anyone else extremely insulted when Chip Carey asserted that we "hadn't missed much", when it was already 1-0?

[cosox]

One more comment...was anyone else extremely insulted when Chip Carey asserted that we "hadn't missed much", when it was already 1-0?

Yes. One of the first things to come out of his mouth as the broadcast came in, too.

In Denver, on Comcast, there was a crawl that mentioned the technical difficulties but it didn't appear until about 12-13 minutes into the sitcom/game started. Frustrating situation, of course, but glad it got ironed out.

Edited by cosox, 19 October 2008 - 11:21 AM.

[mabrowndog]

"jerryrigged"... operating as if jerry remy built the system

As it turns out, that word isn't so wrong after all. I stand corrected.

Thanks to lurker Litigator02 for bringing it to my attention.

[trekfan55]

The TBS HD feed over DirecTV didn't have a crawl.

My question is why didn't MLB delay the start of the game? If a network TV outage knocked coverage of an NFL playoff game off the air 15 minutes before kickoff, does anyone think that the NFL would have gone ahead and started the game anyway?

This is a very good question. Wasn't the kickoff for SuperBowl I "done over" because the TV missed it? I am pretty sure I saw that somewhere.

If that is not true I apologize in advance to all the membership.

My point though, is that this particular SNAFU might have happened so quicckly that no MLB official could step in on time to delay the game. I imagine that by that time the players had been introduced, the National Anthem sung, all the other ceremonies (first pitch, honorary ball boy, etc.) so I am not sure there might have been time to call the umpires (it's their call right?) and tell them to send everyone back to the dugout.

What I am wondering though is why there has not been a peep from MLB about this.

[B H Kim]

Yes it did. I remember seeing it. Took them awhile to get one up and they'd only run it through twice every couple of minutes but they eventually had one up there and right before the feed came back on they were even giving the wrong score at 0-0 despite the fact it was already 1-0.

Sorry, you're right. I don't know if DirecTV uses different satellite feeds for different parts of the country, but I went back and looked at the first 27 minutes of my DVRed copy of the game and they ran a single scroll for about 30 seconds at 8:23.

[Bowlerman9]

The pitchers had already warmed up and they had no intentions of delaying the game at that point.

[trekfan55]

The pitchers had already warmed up and they had no intentions of delaying the game at that point.

Good point, which makes it more of a head scractcher that Tim Mclelland took so long in putting on his gear and get in there.

[B H Kim]

The pitchers had already warmed up and they had no intentions of delaying the game at that point.

It's not an ideal situation, but I don't think that would have precluded a 15-20 minute delay. But, if that really is the reason, I'd just like to hear someone from MLB say so. My guess, though, is that it never even occurred to anyone to consider delaying the game.

[Spacemans Bong]

Wouldn't a power outage prevent TBS from being shown online? I got the TBS feed on MLB.tv and had no idea there was a problem until I noticed SoSH in meltdown.

There's been some things I liked about TBS's coverage, but that was just inexcusable.

They're launching The MLB Network next year, and the master plan there, you'd think, would be for that network to assume a large part of the cable package for national game telecasts. It's going to be a long slog for them to get the cable affiliates on board at the price they need (much like the NFL Network), but the shoddy showing by TBS eliminates one arugment from the Comcasts and Time Warner Cables of the world: "Why add a new baseball network when TBS and ESPN do a perfectly good job?"

Not going to happen. MLB offered shares in the new network to Comcast, Cablevision, Time Warner and DirecTV, among others. They got the cable companies to buy in.

[JohntheBaptist]

One more comment...was anyone else extremely insulted when Chip Carey asserted that we "hadn't missed much", when it was already 1-0?

This really drove me up a wall too. It's a god damn playoff game- if we missed two pitches it qualifies as missing "much." A first inning HR by the home team? The apology alone would have been a smarter track to take.

Figuring that the ALCS would be, in a hypothetical sense when the rights were being purchased, more likely to have a high rating- why was it FOX chose to take the NLCS instead? I, for reasons known only to God and Cablevision, don't get TBS, so I've been scrambling to bars and friends places the entire playoffs thus far. Really frustrating. And now this.

[Everybody Loves Rey Quinones]

I too find it a bit hypocritical of Carey in that he said that "you didn't miss much" when glancing over Upton's first inning homerun. Especially when he was seemingly jumping up and down in the booth when Upon has hit his other first inning home runs in this series.

[Fred not Lynn]

A month from now will mark the 40th anniversary of the "Heidi Game," which still stands as the darkest moment of sports broadcasting ineptitude. I brought this up last night and some said the Heidi game was worse because there was a decision made to switch away, as opposed to an accident or equipment failure causing the breach.

Bullshit, I say. The Heidi Game occurred long before the networks were aware of just how large their sports viewing audiences were. In fact, the public outcry in its wake is what really let TV execs know how important -- and profitable -- national sports broadcasts could be.

The "Heidi Game" represented a poor programming decision - but was a concious decision on the part of programmers. They knew what they were doing, but misread the consequences.

Last night represented poor technical execution, or maybe a better way to state it is that they DIDN'T know what they were doing. Maybe both are comparable in the consequence of the end result, but from a causal perspective, I find Heidi to be much more bothersome (although I guess we can all look back and say that lessons were learned). With Heidi, someone deliberatley decided that the game just wasn't as important as the other programming, last night, you may argue that someone deliberately decided that a third, or fourth, or fifth layer of redundancy wasn't as important as ensuring that the game be shown - but in the end, technical miscalculations occured, which in my opinion are much less heinous than concious programming decisions.

[CSteinhardt]

In case anybody's wondering what the NFL would do, they just suspended the San Diego - Buffalo game for what sounds like similar reasons.

[mabrowndog]

In case anybody's wondering what the NFL would do, they just suspended the San Diego - Buffalo game for what sounds like similar reasons.

Yeah, I was amused by Greg Gumbel. "Power-related issues in the San Diego area". Isn't the game in Orchard Park NY??

[The Napkin]

FWIW The nfl just stopped the Bills-Chargers game because they had a power outage. I'm not sure if it was a stadium issue or just a tv issue.

[Fred not Lynn]

I'm sure there will be no repercussions for TBS beyond the inevitable refunding/make-good of lost advertising time.

Good point, which makes it more of a head scractcher that Tim Mclelland took so long in putting on his gear and get in there.

Paging Mr. Stone. Mr. Oliver Stone, please report to the grassy knoll...

Edited by Fred not Lynn, 19 October 2008 - 12:16 PM.

[Fred not Lynn]

FWIW The nfl just stopped the Bills-Chargers game because they had a power outage. I'm not sure if it was a stadium issue or just a tv issue.

I bet the hydro's working at the Rogers Centre.

In seriousness, I can tell you that Ralph Wilson Stadium does not have massively redundant amounts of power available.

Edited by Fred not Lynn, 19 October 2008 - 12:21 PM.

[JimBoSox9]

The failure to put of a "technical difficulties" crawl for 20 minutes (or was it 50 counting the pre-game?) is mind-boggling and inexcusable.

This has been said a couple of times, so I'll point out that the statement put out by the network said that the outage prevented them from putting up any live programming whatsoever, which included a live update scroll.