[Reverend]

mabrowndog, on Oct 17 2008, 12:41 AM, said:

Let's not overlook the fact that the Rays assisted the Sox in numerous ways tonight. Bringing in an obviously gassed Wheeler was one mistake. Longoria's throw in the dirt, and a failed attempt by Pena for the Ole! scoop, were others.

One key play that I doubt anyone in the media will point out was Kotsay's double that set up the tying run. What nobody will mention is that BJ Upton, being young and incredibly fast, sometimes relies too heavily on his recovery speed to offset his inexperience at getting good reads on balls. He was playing very shallow, as he has pretty much throughout the series, and perhaps TB's coaches bear that blame for positioning him there. On Kotsay's ball, he didn't react well off the bat, took a bad route, and tried to scramble for it. Too little, too late, and it glances off his glove.

An epic choke by the Rays, and a great job of taking advantage of mistakes and opportunities by the Sox. I'll take it.

Hey now, let's be clear, as the concept is being so loudly proclaimed around here, some of this is baseball.

If you extend the logic, then anything hit within the park (and then some) would be fielded for outs. They benefit form the young stud Upton because he's a stud, they lose because he's young. That's the game, yeah?

Myt1, on Oct 17 2008, 01:26 AM, said:

I was sitting in front of the dumbest whining 17 year-old and his mother. The little asshole had been babbling nonsense all game and started whining that he wanted to leave ("I'm just down because we can't win at home."). They left, my blood pressure dropped, and the Red Sox came back.

I hope he hates himself.

Teenager wants to go home--he'll eventually figure out he sucks, or he will continue to suck. Hopefully this game brings things into focus for him.

[CSteinhardt]

I didn't see the replays, but from the CF bleachers, it looked like Gross made three bad to awful plays in the last three innings. First, it looked like he could have caught Pedroia's hit. Then, a good throw had a great shot at getting Kotsay at the plate, but he managed to many-hop the first baseman. And then finally, he broke in a liner straight at him hit by Drew.

If they complete the comeback, does he get a WS share?

[Pandemonium67]

Part of what happened is that the Sox were finally able to use the one tangible advantage they have over the Rays: Papelbon.

The Rays can outhit, outfield, outrun and outpitch the Sox EXCEPT for the back of the bullpen. Balfour, Howell and especially Wheeler all start to look hittable once you've seen them a couple of times. (Percival is even worse; the Rays are lucky he's gone.)

When Paps cleaned up after MDC and followed it with a shutdown 1-2-3 inning, it gave the bats the opportunity they needed.

[Pandemonium67]

Oh, and Maddon also made the mistake of leaving Gross in rightfield. Perez should've been in after the 6th inning.

And BJ SuperGlide in center was poorly positioned for that Kotsay blast, took a bad route, lollygagged, and mistimed his catch. The ball clanked off his glove. The TV jerks were talking about it almost being a spectacular play, but that was really an error. Good job, asswipe. He's the ballplayer equivalent of that whiny 17-year-old. Arrogant cocksucker reminds me of Cano.

[paulftodd]

One of Tampas writers:

Quote

Just before midnight, the Rays turned back into a pumpkin

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/oct/17/17...-u/sports-rays/

Maddon made a critical mistake by assuming games was over in the 7th when he got up 7-0. With Upton at 2nd and nobody out, he suddenly put the brakes on his runners, not wanting to run up the score, and showing respect. Upton would have been the 8th run.

This is the 2nd greatest post season comeback since the 1929 Athletics came from 8 runs back to defeat the Cubs. Given the financial climate today, it is quite a coincidence.

It will be interesting how a young team like Tampa handles a devastating loss such as this, having an off day to dwell on it.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Just got home from the game and I have to say this was one of the most phenomenal experiences of my life. By far the best sporting event I've ever seen live. Could be the most amazing I've seen, period. Getting post season Papi back for a night, clutch hitting out of J.D. Drew, Dustin Pedroia, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie, Kevin Youkilis and Mark Kotsay, Tito going to Papelbon in the 7th of a 7-0 game...

When Pedroia hit his single in the 7th, despite the enormous lead the Rays had, the crowd seemed to know something special was coming. Everyone was on their feet, the place was electric... and then Papi went yard. I was like it was 2004 all over again. The second it came off his bat we knew it was gone and the place erupted.

I've never heard anything so loud and terrifying and beautiful. It was remarkable.

Tito credited the crowd with being magical during his press conference, and there was definitely something special about the group that assembled in the stands tonight. We were aching to let loose, to cheer for something... anything. But for 6 innings, there was nothing. Every line drive out, pop fly, 0-2 count... there was a buzz that started to build. But it faded time and time again. The sea of red and blue and white swayed with each pitch, gasped at each close call that didn't go our way and begged for something to cheer about in rapt silence.

When the offense exploded, so did we. All the pent up raging energy finally burst through and Fenway shook under our wrath. When J.D. Drew finally ended it, every man in that building was my brother, every woman my sister. We danced and shook and embraced total strangers. We cheered until our throats were raw.

Tonight, we were reminded why we love this time of year so much. Tonight we were reminded what it means to be Red Sox fans.

[Noah]

[LoweSox]

Noah, on Oct 17 2008, 04:07 AM, said:

That's all I could manage to blog about this (cause I do that).

According to the game log, when Papelbon walked Pena after Upton made it 7-0, Tampa Bay was at a 99.4% win expectancy.

Boston's comeback started only after their chances of winning had been reduced to less than one percent.

(Edit, for an even sweeter perspective:

The Red Sox had a 1.1% WE when they went up to bat in the bottom of the 7th. 1.1% to 100% without making nine outs.)

This post has been edited by LoweSox: 17 October 2008 - 03:30 AM

[MentalDisabldLst]

Sorry, I couldn't let this quote from the gamethread go uncommented-upon.

Gunfighter 09, on Oct 17 2008, 12:18 AM, said:

So the only question is whether this is better than game 4 or 5 in 2004. I guess we need to wait until Sunday night to answer that question.

Damn this feels good.

Better than 2004 ALCS game 4? Possibly. History may yet be the judge.

Better than 2004 ALCS game 5? No fucking way. That game was the single greatest sporting match I have ever witnessed, and it damn near killed me, my girlfriend, and anyone within a 50-foot radius of a TV tuned to that game. It was 5 hours and 45 minutes of white-knuckle mayhem. Two truly great teams just beating the crap out of each other until there was nothing left they had to give. Clutch hitting the whole game long. Clutch pitching, the whole game long. Clutch fielding. A clutch ground-rule double. And it was ultimately concluded by a grinding 12-pitch at-bat, against their 7th pitcher of the night, in his 4th inning of relief, in which Loaiza finally yielded the game-winning hit, but easily kept his dignity.

This game was closer to 2004 ALCS game 1 than it was to 2004 ALCS game 5. It was a tale of two games - the long wait, the despair with it, and then... the furious rally. In that game we came up just short. In this game, we emerged gloriously the Rays came up small. It reinforced everyone's belief in miracles and our love for this game. But let's not go comparing it to games that were on a totally different plane.

[geoduck no quahog]

I can't imagine what it would have been like to be at the Greatest Game Ever Played at Fenway. I'm guessing strongly that the crowd leaving had a lot to do with it. When all the deadbeat faux fans vacated the stadium the negativity in that crowd was replaced by real fans filtering down to the now empty seats - and the entire place turned around.

My joy was only made greater by listening to Caray go from talking about a "deafening silence" and prepping the wrap-up toward a Ray-Philles Series (seriously, this guy does not know much about baseball) to his almost stunned disappointment in witnessing the greatest comeback in playoff history - his weekend soiree to the islands with BJ Upton now abruptly canceled.

But to any of you who were there to the end - thank you. We saw your energy on video and heard it on radio and you've been rewarded with one of the greatest experiences in your baseball life. You deserved it.

Now please fly down to St. Petersburg and keep the faith.

[Eric Van]

One of the great things about baseball is that the possible paths to a comeback are well-defined, and can be thought about and lusted over in advance. If you're down 20 points in the 4th quarter of a football game, you know you have to score three times while holding the opposition scoreless, but beyond that your wishes and dreams are open-ended and vague. In a baseball game, there's a batting order, and each of the players has his specific talent or talents. One specifc scenario afer another plays out in your mind.

When Papi came up I told the guys in front of us that a HR would put us right back in the ballgame, a comment that was probably being made simultaneously by 20,000 other people at the park and 3,000,000 people watching at home. The great thing is that you say that a hundred times a season and it maybe happens twice. When it did happen (and we had a great view of it in box 97), I immediately had the feeling that we would win the game. When Drew went deep, I actually started to feel that a failure to complete the comeback would be a letdown if not actually a shock.

And the greatest thing about the scenarios that play out in your mind is that sometimes, something else entirely happens that's just as thrilling, if not more so. There were probably 5,000 people saying "Casey gets a hit, Ellsbury pinch runs, steals second, and Kotsay ties the game." I'm not even sure Coco's significant other or parents were thinking "Coco ties the game on the 10th pinch of his at-bat."

The amazing thing about this game is that I think I have been happier at other Sox games -- as long ago as Game 6 in 1975 and as recently as the Lowrie and Manny walk-offs. What happened tonight so surpassed the normal that it became surreal; it entered a realm where ordinary human emotions were insufficient. When we won the ALDS I felt pure joy. Tonight I did not feel pure joy; I felt 90% joy and 10% utter, stunned disbelief.

But pure joy may be overrated -- this was ultimately a more thrilling experience. The tension was absurd. At one point (it might have been just before the Pena GDP) I yelled out "I can't take this any longer!" and everyone around me laughed because (I think) they knew it was an honest outburst rather than a comment designed to elicit a response from others. We were standing continuously from the 7th-inning stretch to the end of the game (I've never done anything like that) and I think my pulse rate was significantly elevated most of the time.

On to Tampa.

[AlNipper49]

It's 5:27 and I've been at work for three hours. I was so amped up after the game I couldn't sleep and finally gave in and came into work rather than rewinding the game for the 12th time.

[Sam Ray Not]

I finally got to bed at around 3:00 am, totally wired on elation.

This morning I'm re-watching Coco postgame interview and tears start literally pouring down my face. My wife says, "oh, come on, what now?" I manage to choke out Coco's words: "we ... didn't ... give up...."

She says, "of course they didn't give up." Well, true ... but I gave up. But if you ever need to sum up what's great about sports, there it is.

[XNOUGHT]

Games like this, when you are at a bar with 50 people in their early 20s just going absolutely nuts for each and every run, are legendary.

[irinmike]

Well I will admit it, I went to bed after the Seventh figuring well at least we were not totally embarassed, after Ortiz's home run. I am quite sure there are a few more SOSH brothers out there who did the same thing. No I didn't miss the comeback in 04 against the Yankees, but last night well I did. Shocked when I awoke and immediately turned on ESPN! Reminded me of how it felt in reverse when the Sox were on the brink against the Mets in 87. Know how hard it will be for these youngsters with the Rays to regroup no matter what they say.

[jacklamabe65]

Baseball is as much psychological as it is physical. With just seven outs to go to end their season and down by 7 runs, they turned it all around. They now have the most intangible on their side - momentum. While the odds are certainly in Tampa Bay's favor, the biggest factor in a short series, momentum, is not. We have seen this three times in the past five years. Why would this year NOT be different?

[Average Reds]

At 12:44 am this morning, I sent out an email to several close friends who are Sox fans with the subject line that said "If you gave up on this game, you missed something special."

Hard for me to exagerate how much I am enjoying reading all of the stunned reactions and contrite apologies this morning......

[bellyofthebeast]

XNOUGHT, on Oct 17 2008, 08:41 AM, said:

Games like this, when you are at a bar with 50 people in their early 20s just going absolutely nuts for each and every run, are legendary.

Games like this, when you're at bar full of MFY fans giving you the finger while trying to break your spirit, are pretty cool too.

[Ray Culp]

Eric Van, on Oct 17 2008, 04:57 AM, said:

One of the great things about baseball is that the possible paths to a comeback are well-defined, and can be thought about and lusted over in advance. If you're down 20 points in the 4th quarter of a football game, you know you have to score three times while holding the opposition scoreless, but beyond that your wishes and dreams are open-ended and vague. In a baseball game, there's a batting order, and each of the players has his specific talent or talents. One specifc scenario afer another plays out in your mind.

And the single greatest thing about the game of baseball, is that the defense (whether fielders or pitchers) always has to make a play to end the game. In the football scenario outlined above, you left out the one other thing you have to do to come back...you have to beat the clock. In baseball, as long as you don't make that 27th out, you've got a chance.

This post has been edited by Ray Culp: 17 October 2008 - 08:39 AM

[RingoOSU]

Noah, on Oct 17 2008, 03:07 AM, said:

This is an example of why these charts are stupid and pointless. According to the "math" the Sox already lost that game last night.