81 replies to this topic

[OilCanShotTupac]

Tito has had a deep reservoir of goodwill among denizens of SoSH for his excellence in postseason management.

To judge by the game thread, he burned through it all and went into a deficit tonight with his decision to keep Beckett in to take a pounding.

My question for you: Why? Why did Tito keep Beckett in? What did he see that we didn't?

FWIW, here's a breakdown of Beckett's pitches, from Gameday data:

4.1 innings pitched
93 pitches
22 batters faced

The 93 pitches break down like this:

37 balls (1 BB)
10 hits (4 singles, 4 doubles, 2 HR)
7 outs (5 flyouts, 2 groundouts)
21 fouls
14 called strikes
4 swinging strikes

The damning number here, IMO, is only 4 swings and misses: 2 curves, 1 cutter, and only 1 fastball. One swing and miss on a fastball in 93 pitches.

Beckett snapped off some decent curves, but his fastball was slow and straight. The Rays seemed to figure out that, if they waited, they would get a good pitch to hit, and they did. The hits were not cheapies. They hit the ball very hard.

I really want to know: What, exactly, did Tito see that made him think it was OK to keep Beckett in?

Please don't tell me it was to get him through five to get the W.

Edited by OilCanShotTupac, 11 October 2008 - 10:24 PM.

[biollante]

I was feeling the same thing as I screamed into the dark night.

Beckett was toast. He had to see it. Beckett is pitching as if something is wrong.

[OilCanShotTupac]

I mean, was there anything in his mechanics, or in his approach, to suggest that the results were somehow an anomaly?

The Rays hit the ball often and hard. They did not swing and miss.

Why keep him in???

[DieHard3]

Yup, here's the way I see it.

Very bad decision to have Beckett pitch the 4th inning.

Really, really bad decision to have Beckett start the 5th inning

Nearly inexcusable to leave Beckett in to face Pena (mitigated only by the fact that Lopez sucks)

Absolutely inexcusable to leave Beckett in to face Longoria

Terrible, terrible managerial job. Equally terrible, however, is Beckett's selfishness and arrogance in refusing to admit that he's hurt too badly to be effective.

[CSteinhardt]

It looked to me like Beckett was pitching out of a lower arm slot. Is that just the TBS cameras (which also make it hard for me to spot pitches on/off the corner)? Or is there something different about his mechanics right now?

[Buck Showalter]

It looked to me like Beckett was pitching out of a lower arm slot. Is that just the TBS cameras (which also make it hard for me to spot pitches on/off the corner)? Or is there something different about his mechanics right now?

I'd be very interested to hear / see some evidence of this. Arm slot and mechanics are always items that a pitcher tinkers with due to injury.

Having said that, I'll add that I thought Beckett relied way too much on his fastball tonight and would love to see a breakdown of his pitch-chart.

[CSteinhardt]

I'd be very interested to hear / see some evidence of this. Arm slot and mechanics are always items that a pitcher tinkers with due to injury.

Yeah, that's why I was looking for it. The thing is, the TBS camera makes it really difficult for me to compare. Maybe somebody who's more talented with this sort of thing could make a pair of screenshots?

[Sprowl]

Here are a few links to charts for analyzing Beckett's crash-and-burn this evening:

- the strike zone: Beckett grooved everything.

- release point (I'll post some pre-injury release points later on, but those data have not been very useful in the past: observations from experienced pitchers and coaches will be worth a lot more).

- pitch distribution by spin angle * speed: Beckett tried everything -- 2-seamer, 4-seamer, cutter, changeup and curve. Everything got hit.

- pitch sequence: his velocity is down but not out -- nothing reaches 94, but the Tampa cameras are 1 mph stingier than Fenway. Even so, this is not the 97 mph Beckett from before his trip to the DL.

[Pumpsie]

Yup, here's the way I see it.

Very bad decision to have Beckett pitch the 4th inning.

Really, really bad decision to have Beckett start the 5th inning

Nearly inexcusable to leave Beckett in to face Pena (mitigated only by the fact that Lopez sucks)

Absolutely inexcusable to leave Beckett in to face Longoria

Terrible, terrible managerial job. Equally terrible, however, is Beckett's selfishness and arrogance in refusing to admit that he's hurt too badly to be effective.

Exactly the way I see it too. Amazing how baseball can unite us.

[Montana Fan]

his velocity is down but not out -- nothing reaches 94, but the Tampa cameras are 1 mph stingier than Fenway. Even so, this is not the 97 mph Beckett from before his trip to the DL.

And it's not the Beckett of October 2007. This is what my brother and I were talking about. He's not throwing as hard so fastballs around the middle of the plate look very Wasdinish.

[templeUsox]

It was perhaps Tito's worst post-season game with the Sox.
He got burned with Timlin in the 11th because:

- He used Lopez for .1 in the 5th. Cardinal sin. It's completely worthless to use a reliever for one out before the 7th.
- He makes the awful decision to take Masterson out in the 9th and significantly shorten the Sox pen for the rest of the game. Masterson should be counted on for 2 innings in these games. He can pitch around Pena there and dominate Longoria like usual in that spot. The second you take him out of the game you put a ticking time bomb on the amount of outs the Sox have before they literally have no chance. And putting Mike Timlin on the mound means you literally have no chance at winning.

[mascho]

And it's not the Beckett of October 2007. This is what my brother and I were talking about. He's not throwing as hard so fastballs around the middle of the plate look very Wasdinish.

Well, not only is there a lack of velocity, there is a distinct lack of location. Two-seamers were left over the plate to lefties. I think he only threw one decent two seamer all night. The rest were left right over the middle.

Plus, look at that strike zone chart Sprowl posted. Some pitches look like give-ups.

And DH3 said it about right. Letting Josh start the 4th and 5th was bad, but letting him face the heart of their order in the 5th once trouble started was insane.

[PedroKsBambino]

It was perhaps Tito's worst post-season game with the Sox.
He got burned with Timlin in the 11th because:

- He used Lopez for .1 in the 5th. Cardinal sin. It's completely worthless to use a reliever for one out before the 7th.
- He makes the awful decision to take Masterson out in the 9th and significantly shorten the Sox pen for the rest of the game. Masterson should be counted on for 2 innings in these games. He can pitch around Pena there and dominate Longoria like usual in that spot. The second you take him out of the game you put a ticking time bomb on the amount of outs the Sox have before they literally have no chance. And putting Mike Timlin on the mound means you literally have no chance at winning.

Lopez shouldn't be used for any more than that, though---that's his role. And he's not good enough to be used beyond that role.

Masterson being pulled, on the other hand, I agree with you is pretty shaky given the overall situation. This is essentially the same thing Tito did in the second game against Cleveland last year, too---try to win it in 9. And like that game, he ended up with a guy who is marginal for being on the roster losing the game later on.

[Manny's Hammies]

Is Paul Byrd dead? Where was he in the 11th?

[mascho]

Lopez shouldn't be used for any more than that, though---that's his role. And he's not good enough to be used beyond that role.

Masterson being pulled, on the other hand, I agree with you is pretty shaky given the overall situation. This is essentially the same thing Tito did in the second game against Cleveland last year, too---try to win it in 9. And like that game, he ended up with a guy who is marginal for being on the roster losing the game later on.

Buck Martinez agreed with Francona going to Paps in that situation. That should tell us all we need to know about that decision.

Seriously, though, there was no evidence Masterson was going to make a mistake. He got two grounders (one that handcuffed Pedroia) and a K of Upton. There is no evidence that he'd suddenly leave a pitch up in the zone for Pena to drive.

[jtn46]

Yeah, completely indefensible. Francona kept thinking he could get Beckett a win, and to me, once the guy's given up 5 runs in 4 innings, he just can't think that way. It's stupid because not only did Beckett have a lousy start, meaning, he deserved nothing, but it's he postseason, what does getting a pitcher a "W" matter? If Beckett went 5 innings and "only" allowed the 5 runs, is he going to hang his head high?

[8 and 9 in Left]

Just saw Farrell interviewed on NESN, and evidently the party line is that Beckett's health is not a problem.
How anyone watching tonight's radar gun readings can say that with a straight face is beyond me. If Beckett's not ready to admit he's not healthy enough to be effective, then Farrell and Tito need to make the decision for him and quit facilitating the charade that is being attempted here.

[roundegotrip]

It looked to me like Beckett was pitching out of a lower arm slot. Is that just the TBS cameras (which also make it hard for me to spot pitches on/off the corner)? Or is there something different about his mechanics right now?

I don't know if you're right, but it's an interesting thought. A lower arm slot would make a lot of sense with a sore oblique on the pitching arm side of the body, because you wouldn't want to drop your glove side shoulder as far as usual as your torso's coming around.

If Beckett was keeping his left shoulder high as he came around to avoid stretching out his oblique, it would probably result in a lower arm slot.

[Ed Hillel]

I've been saying for his last 2-3 starts now that it is CLEAR that Josh Beckett is hurt and people have just continue to shit on Beckett as though as it is his fault. I think it's now time to admit that Beckett is hurt and that he should not be on this roster. It's just ludicrous that anyone would conceive Beckett to be throwing his fastball 90-92 mph at this point in the season. He threw a curve tonight that was clocked at 72 mph. Can anyone remember the last time Beckett threw a pitch clocked that slow? For most of September he was throwing mid-high 90's. Now, it is quite clear, that he is hurt. Get him off the roster and let Byrd, who was absolutely fantastic for the second half of the season, try his luck. I fear that it may have already cost the Sox this series, but please Mr. Tito cut your losses and get this guy off the team. It sucks that Beckett is not on the roster, but it's a reality (Or, at lest, it should be) that the Sox have to deal without him from here on out. Move on and hope for the best.

Just saw Farrell interviewed on NESN, and evidently the party line is that Beckett's health is not a problem.

Horseshit. Is there anyone, who is knowledgeable of Boston Red Sox baseball, that actually believes this? It's positively clear that both he and Kazmir are not the same pitchers and that it goes beyond mental issues. Stop pretending an injury isn't a problem and get him off the roster. It's already cost the Sox a game and, quite probably, a sure trip to the World Series.

Edited by Ed Hillel, 12 October 2008 - 01:40 AM.

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Is Paul Byrd dead? Where was he in the 11th?

Or in the 4th?

If you're not going to start him and not going to use him in a long role when your SP obviously has nothing (twice now), why have him on the roster?

Edited by Papelbon's Poutine, 12 October 2008 - 01:53 AM.

[Pumpsie]

I've been saying for his last 2-3 starts now that it is CLEAR that Josh Beckett is hurt and people have just continue to shit on Beckett as though as it is his fault.

Because it IS his fault. All Beckett has to do is fess up that he's hurt. He's obviously lying to Tito and Farrell that he's OK. Then, they're forced to go with him as if the old Beckett is just another couple of pitches or innings away and he just needs to get back in shape. As DH3 said above, Beckett is being extremely selfish about this.

And Tito and Farrell have to be idiots to believe him.

Such a shame tonite. 23 players played great and we lost because two of them (Beckett and Timlin) sucked and their manager sucked even more.

It's games like these that make me wonder if there are really no good managers. Tito was as bad as a manager could be tonite and Maddon wasn't any great shakes either.

[Ed Hillel]

Because it IS his fault. All Beckett has to do is fess up that he's hurt. He's obviously lying to Tito and Farrell that he's OK. Then, they're forced to go with him as if the old Beckett is just another couple of pitches or innings away and he just needs to get back in shape. As DH3 said above, Beckett is being extremely selfish about this.

And Tito and Farrell have to be idiots to believe him.

Such a shame tonite. 23 players played great and we lost because two of them (Beckett and Timlin) sucked and their manager sucked even more.

It's games like these that make me wonder if there are really no good managers. Tito was as bad as a manager could be tonite and Maddon wasn't any great shakes either.

No, it's NOT his fault. We all know that Beckett is a competitor, but it's objectively clear that he's hurt. That's not "selfishness," it's a competitive spirit. The problem is that he's hurt and that it is plainly obvious. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. It's the manager's responsibility to ensure that he doesn't pitch from here on out. You want a guy who wants to pitch, regardless of the circumstances. You also want a manager who is willing to deny that competitive spirit the opportunity to play when it is to the detriment of the team.

What's really upsetting is that Farrell seems to still think that Beckett isn't hurt. That demonstrates to me that the coaching staff is in denial. If that's the still the case at this point, it doesn't bode well for a potential game 6.

Edited by Ed Hillel, 12 October 2008 - 02:00 AM.

[reggiecleveland]

He's obviously lying to Tito and Farrell that he's OK.

I just have to say.

Wow.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Such a shame tonite. 23 players played great and we lost because two of them (Beckett and Timlin) sucked and their manager sucked even more.

Well I wouldn't go that far. Leaving 13 runners on base isn't exactly a great team performance. An 0-6 from your leadoff hitter wasn't much help either, not mention 0-6 from both Kotsay and Crisp (I'll cut Kotsay a little slack as the victim of an egregiously bad strike three call in his final AB).

This was a shockingly bad game from Tito. Beckett is obviously hurt, but I can't blame him for trying (is the alternative really much better) and Timlin is just who he is at this point. He probably should be retired and definitely NOT on anyone's postseason roster. But overall, some very significant parts of this team failed totally tonight.

And just as a postscript, I doubt there's a person alive who enjoys watching baseball more than I do -- but I have absolutely had it with these marathon postseason games. 5-and-a-half hours to play 11 innings? This insanity has to stop.

[Pumpsie]

No, it's NOT his fault. We all know that Beckett is a competitor, but it's objectively clear that he's hurt. That's not "selfishness," it's a competitive spirit. The problem is that he's hurt and that it is plainly obvious. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. It's the manager's responsibility to ensure that he doesn't pitch from here on out. You want a guy who wants to pitch, regardless of the circumstances. You also want a manager who is willing to deny that competitive spirit the opportunity to play when it is to the detriment of the team.

What's really upsetting is that Farrell seems to still think that Beckett isn't hurt. That demonstrates to me that the coaching staff is in denial.

Beckett's putting himself ahead of the team. Someone should kick his ass. And Tito has no balls when it comes to this kind of thing. Kowtowing to veterans is his Achilles' heel. This is like a perfect storm of stupid and it cost us a very important game tonight. We should be up 2-0. But if Lester loses on Monday, and he's due for a bad game after pitching like Koufax for the last month, this series could be over.

It would have been better to lose 8-0 tonight. Tito seized defeat from the jaws of victory. And Beckett was the only one who could have stopped him.

[Pumpsie]

I just have to say.

Wow.

They know he's hurt but he's the only one who can tell them how much because players, especially pitchers, are always playing in pain this time of year. All he had to say was that he was gassed but he refused to do so no matter how much he was hurting the team out there. He's a dumb, stubborn bastard. And, yeah, he's in denial which is a kind of lying.

[E5 Yaz]

Or in the 4th?

If you're not going to start him and not going to use him in a long role when your SP obviously has nothing (twice now), why have him on the roster?

Byrd's probably wondering the same thing.

The fourth and, particularly, the fifth innings killed their chances tonight. That said, when you have four players with 3 hits apiece, and 5 spots in the order with a combined 0 hits, even bad pitching decisions aren't the lone reason for the loss.

[LoweSox]

A friend of mine who's a Marlins fan watched the game with me tonight and asked me if Beckett pitches differently now (he only watches Red Sox games intermittently). There's definitely a difference in the way he whips his body like he used to do, I said; he said he meant in the short term -- as in the last month or so.

We focused on the fact that he wasn't getting any swinging strikes tonight, and evidently he only got four. Judging by the meaty location of the pitches he threw that ended up in the stands, I'd be willing to bet they were pitches he expected to be missed. It was almost like he wasn't realizing he wasn't creating as much velocity, or wasn't changing his approach at least. In years past, Beckett would reach down and grab 97-98 if he needed to, and it was always because of that whipping motion I mentioned: his leg would swing around violently, his neck and face would get warped from the impact the velocity he was creating. For whatever reason, tonight he looked overly lax, and just wasn't creating any force with his body, which either means that he is injured, or, more so, that he felt uncomfortable and thought he could injure himself.

Obviously, this is just a viewer's speculation. He didn't seem hurt to me, just bothered.

FWIW, though, Beckett's line in Game 1 of the 2003 NLCS: 6.1 IP, 8 H, 1 BB, 2 HR, 6 ER, and 5 K on 82 pitches. He's had a bad playoff game before.

The problem is that before this year he hadn't had one since then.

[Judge Mental13]

They know he's hurt but he's the only one who can tell them how much because players, especially pitchers, are always playing in pain this time of year. All he had to say was that he was gassed but he refused to do so no matter how much he was hurting the team out there. He's a dumb, stubborn bastard. And, yeah, he's in denial which is a kind of lying.

That's weird, I always thought it was Francona who filled out the lineup card. Not Josh Beckett.

So was it Beckett's decision to stay in for 5 innings when he was giving up moonshots and not fooling anybody? Joe Maddon could've had a base hit tonight. I almost always give Tito the benefit of the doubt but you cannot do that here. He let Beckett start, I get that, Beckett wants to start and hey who knows Beckett at 80% might be better than Wake or Paul Byrd giving you 100% but once it was clear that we were not getting an effective Josh Beckett (which was pretty early on in this game, and the perception never really changed) it's the manager's job to get him out of there and let the longman try and eat a few innings before giving it to the relievers on the roster who don't suck.

The offense did it's job tonight, they chased Kazmir early and even did some damage to Howell and Balfour. The Rays chased Beckett early as well but he didn't leave. He stood there and took a beating. Having Javier Lopez as the first man up in the 3rd (the inning in which Beckett should have been pulled tonight) was an odd one too..... Loopez isn't really that durable, he's not going to fool lots of people and eat like 2-3 innings for you, that's something Paul Byrd, Wake, Masterson or MDC can do, Lopez can maybe give you an inning, tonight he gave us one pitch. I have no earthly idea why he was the first man up, that was a real head scratcher.

[Eric Van]

And just as a postscript, I doubt there's a person alive who enjoys watching baseball more than I do -- but I have absolutely had it with these marathon postseason games. 5-and-a-half hours to play 11 innings? This insanity has to stop.

My DVR is nearly full with various bits and pieces of these two games, waiting to be dubbed off.

What makes it more confusing is that the DVR labels many of them with the name of the originally scheduled program, so it's an effort to keep track of them all.

The end of tonight's game, for instance, is listed as Dumb and Dumber.

[sdcraigo]

An 0-6 from your leadoff hitter wasn't much help either, not mention 0-6 from both Kotsay and Crisp

Coco was 3 for 6 with a double.

[Flynn4ever]

I'm less prone to doubting Tito and his two rings, but yes... I have to wonder what Byrd is doing on the roster if not bailing out an ineffective starter before the 5th. Casey being on the roster seems to be a waste of space as well, but that argument is being covered elsewhere.
As for Beckett, he obviously aint right,is it possible that he is injured but not feeling it (there were posts about a lidocaine injection early in the afternoon today)? I dunno, you are all correct that his speed/location are off, but is Tito trying to get him by on his reputation as 'the greatest post-season pitcher of the decade' when he is clearly mortal?

[Flynn4ever]

And just as a postscript, I doubt there's a person alive who enjoys watching baseball more than I do -- but I have absolutely had it with these marathon postseason games. 5-and-a-half hours to play 11 innings? This insanity has to stop.

This was mentioned on an ESPN podcast this week. How is it that the National League can get their games, playoff games, in at under three hours routinely?

[wyatt55]

Coco was 3 for 6 with a double.

Thanks for fixing that. And if that double stayed in the park, Coco had an outside shot at an inside the park HR. Probably would've needed an offline throw from the cut-off man but he was rounding second as the ball cleared the wall. (and no mention by the announcers how lucky the Rays were the ball bounced out - IIRC).

[mabrowndog]

I share everyone's collective frustration and astonishment at the unexplained allowances made tonight for Beckett. Ditto for leaving Byrd to collect cobwebs. Rather than rehash them all, there's another managerial failing that I believe was just as critical to tonight's outcome.

While Papelbon worked an inning and a third, he had only thrown a whopping total of 18 pitches. That's hardly anything that's going to jeopardize his health and well-being -- especially with an off-day coming up.

So why, pray tell, did Tito opt to pull him and have Timlin start the 11th? It's bad enough that this dinosaur was added to the postseason roster. Hell, a potted houseplant would have made a better accoutrement for the pitching staff. The bottom third of the Rays' order was due up, and Tito had to have surmised that Papelbon was his best bet to record outs and give his offense another shot to grab the lead.

I'm truly mystified at what his thought process was, and I'm extremely disappointed that the bozos in the media didn't press him on it -- even if the post-game conference was abbreviated due to the late hour. Hell, only Sean McAdam really backed Tito into a corner with his Beckett question. I would have thought the Paps question would have been a natural follow-up from one of Sean's colleagues. Instead we get fluff like "Talk about Pedroia and how good he was."

[scotian1]

Poorest managed game I have witnessed since Grady's fiasco. Then trying to spin that it was location that was the main problem when his velocity is down several MPH makes me want to pull my hair out. This does not even address the problem of Ellsbury who has become a black hole in the order the past few games. Bryd should have been in that game at least by the fifth inning. If this ostrich head in the sand attitude continues there are going to be a lot of angry people from Yarmouth to the tip of Cape Breton.

[Kremlin Watcher]

I think Tito, Farrell, Theo, et al are simply saying he's not hurt because they are trying to figure out what the hell to do. Beckett should not be allowed anywhere near a baseball field until next spring when he is healthy. But I think this has the team freaked out because he was such an important part of the psychology of winning in the post-season. The psychological fillip of adding Paul Byrd to the rotation just doesn't do it for me; can you imagine what is going through management's collective brain right now? "OK, we've got a crappy and ineffective Beckett, or we could drop him from the rotation, lose him for the WS, and go with Byrd and Wakefield." That just can't inspire confidence. But I don't think they have a choice. I think today or tomorrow we hear an announcement that Beckett is out of the rotation. But they have to get used to that idea first, and the reason they are denying injury is because they haven't coped with it yet.

[Big Guapo Style]

In a tie game on the road the best case scenario there was getting to the 12th inning, in which case you'd need either another inning of Timlin or Byrd at that point. I am unclear on why Timlin was used over Byrd in the 11th. At the very least you start it up with your long man there and save Timlin to potentially close it out in the bottom of the inning in which you take the lead. (Although I wouldn't rely on him for that either)

[WoburnDiaspora]

In a tie game on the road the best case scenario there was getting to the 12th inning, in which case you'd need either another inning of Timlin or Byrd at that point. I am unclear on why Timlin was used over Byrd in the 11th. At the very least you start it up with your long man there and save Timlin to potentially close it out in the bottom of the inning in which you take the lead. (Although I wouldn't rely on him for that either)

When I saw Timlin come into the game I said "Game Over" and watched with gritted teeth as the result came to pass. There was no reason to bring in Timlin in such a high leverage game ending situation. Byrd should have been the guy.

However, in Timlin's defense he was getting squeezed really badly last night. It seemed to me that as the game wore on the home plate umpire, whose name escapes me, decided to give everything within 4 inches off of the plate to the Rays pitchers. Kotsay and Pedroia's called strikeouts were on balls that were way outside of the zone. However, several of Timlin's pitches were strikes that the Ump decided were balls.

So partially on the ump but mostly on Tito and his continued reliance on Timlin, who I believe, started is rookie year by striking out an aged Babe Ruth.

Edited by WoburnDiaspora, 12 October 2008 - 07:29 AM.

[TheoShmeo]

When I saw Timlin come into the game I said "Game Over" and watched with gritted teeth as the result came to pass. There was no reason to bring in Timlin in such a high leverage game ending situation. Byrd should have been the guy.

However, in Timlin's defense he was getting squeezed really badly last night. It seemed to me that as the game wore on the home plate umpire, whose name escapes me, decided to give everything within 4 inches off of the plate to the Rays pitchers. Kotsay and Pedroia's called strikeouts were on balls that were way outside of the zone. However, several of Timlin's pitches were strikes that the Ump decided were balls.

So partially on the ump but mostly on Tito and his continued reliance on Timlin, who I believe, once pitched to Babe Ruth in Mike's rookie year.

You're right that Timlin was getting squeezed badly. But you're also right that he should never have been in that position.

Mike Timlin should have only two possible roles on this post-season roster: (1) filler in an absolute blow out or (2) last resort pitcher. That Tito put him in there when he had two other viable options -- Papelbon for pitches 19-35 or Byrd -- was inexcusable.

As to leaving Beckett out there for the fifth, I don't care what Francona says about that. Nothing justifies using a pitcher who clearly didn't have it after the Sox got the lead back and had a day off the next day.

Edited by TheoShmeo, 12 October 2008 - 07:32 AM.

[cwright]

The end of tonight's game, for instance, is listed as Dumb and Dumber.

How appropriate. It would be even better if somehow the fifth inning was labeled that way, though. :/

CSteinhardt mentioned earlier in this thread that it looked like Beckett's arm angle was a little lower than we're used to. I was thinking the same thing as I watched him -- something looked "off" in his delivery. From photos I can find, though, I can't see the difference.
2007 photo, then a photo from last night



2007 photo, then a photo from last night

[scotian1]

For once I am in total agreement with New York Daily News columnist Bill Madden.

http://www.nydailyne...ole_terry_.html

[Todd Benzinger]

OK, I defended Tito yesterday, saying the Daisuke-in-the-8th thing, while maybe suboptimal, was in no way Gumpish.

Last night, my friends, we got "Gump'd!"

Beckett was toast in the 3rd. Timlin was toast by June.

The offense kept coming back, and Tito kept trying to give it away.

[Pearl Wilson]

Having listened to Tito at every possible opportunity, I have to guess that he and Farrell were trying like hell to keep bullpen guys in roles with which they were familiar rather than place them into spots/ABs they did not expect and were not prepared for. I think they took a calculated risk that the defense would be enough to keep the lid on Beckett's suck and that the offense would pick up the slack against Kazmir et al. Didn't work out at all, but it might have if a few more things had gone our way.

You have to wonder about Byrd's status last night and what his role was supposed to be.

[pk1627]

Francona was playing with the house's money last night and it influenced his pitching decisions.

He thought Beckett was a better option for the top of the 5th than Byrd, setting up the pen for the rest of the game. It wasn't the better option in hindsight, but I wonder if Byrd would have done any better through the 1-4 hitters.

He put in Timlin in the 11th to save Pap's arm and chose Timlin because it was the bottom of the order.

Rays won, but they really put some innings on Wheeler. As we saw with Betancourt last year, that can hurt you in the later games.

[DannyHeep]

It was perhaps Tito's worst post-season game with the Sox.
He got burned with Timlin in the 11th because:

- He used Lopez for .1 in the 5th. Cardinal sin. It's completely worthless to use a reliever for one out before the 7th.
- He makes the awful decision to take Masterson out in the 9th and significantly shorten the Sox pen for the rest of the game. Masterson should be counted on for 2 innings in these games. He can pitch around Pena there and dominate Longoria like usual in that spot. The second you take him out of the game you put a ticking time bomb on the amount of outs the Sox have before they literally have no chance. And putting Mike Timlin on the mound means you literally have no chance at winning.

If he was going to pull Masterson for Pena then why not start the inning with Paps?

Paps goes in the 8th & 9th and Masterson can go in the 10th & 11th (and maybe even the 12th).

No reason to burn him there when the game is looking like extra innings.

[Rudy Pemberton]

My only guess is that Tito was trying to steal an inning with Timlin, thinking he could get through the bottom of the order. If Byrd was coming in, it was for the duration of the game. I think there's also some merit to the situation; Byrd's a guy they probably don't want to bring into spots he's not that familiar with (although a case could be made that as a starter, he's familiar with most spots). I don't know, probably reaching here but as the game kept going on, it became increasingly likely that Timlin was going to have to be used.

I don't see how you can bring Byrd into the game in the 5th though, given the score of the game it's a situation where he's only going to pitch an inning and they do seem to be saving him to pitch longer than that. If the Sox were up or down 11-6, or something, than yeah I think that would have been time for Byrd.

Ultimately, Wheeler's effort won the game for the Rays. It's a shame the Sox don't have a pitcher better than Timlin for that last spot, and while I love Kotsay's defense, wonder what Bailey could do in his role.

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 12 October 2008 - 09:56 AM.

[IpswichSox]

Most mystifying to me: We’ve come to expect Playoff Francona because the way he has traditionally managed in October has conditioned us to anticipate aggressive, cold decision-making – particularly with bullpen usage – that simply couldn’t work over a 162-game season. It’s like a switch goes off with him when the calendar turns to October.

Dice-K coming out for the 8th inning in Game 1 and Beckett coming out for the 5th inning in Game 2 (or staying in in the 5th inning after the Pena single to face Longoria) are defensible decisions. In May. Not in October. And not with Playoff Francona.

What’s the reason for the difference is Francona’s decision-making this October from last year and 2004? Does it say something about Francona’s confidence in the bullpen outside of Papelbon and Masterson this year? Is there something else going on?

This apparent change in managerial philosophy is jarring.

[TheoShmeo]

Francona was playing with the house's money last night and it influenced his pitching decisions.

I hope he wasn't thinking like that. They had the chance to put the Rays in a deep hole and now they come into Boston on an emotional high (which, I know, will get deflated awfully quickly if Lester pitches as he has thus far in the playoffs), and the Sox are in the position of relying on Lester to once again pitch like an ace and going to Wake, whose October starter resume is far from stellar, in game four.

I understand, to some extent, holding Byrd back as Wakefield insurance. I don't understand saving Paps' arm when, as Dog pointed out, his pitch count was only at 18 and he really didn't have to labor that much through his first four batters.

[Captaincoop]

That said, when you have four players with 3 hits apiece, and 5 spots in the order with a combined 0 hits, even bad pitching decisions aren't the lone reason for the loss.

The offense put 8 runs on the board. No matter how many runners are left on, that should be enough offense to win a ballgame.

That being said, I will never understand why Byrd is on this roster. At this point it appears that the only way he pitches in this series is if the Sox are down by 10 runs early, or if one of our starters gets hurt and he has to take their spot in the rotation. Anyone on the staff can do the former, and he can be added to the roster if the latter becomes necessary. So why is he here, again? If you're not going to use him in the 4th inning last night, nor in the 11th, then you should have kept an extra pinch runner.