184 replies to this topic

[The Burn Factor]

link

Various Red Sox notes...

Mentions Papelbon as a potential 20-game winner.

Boston can beat teams up, and if Curt Schilling's performance at Yankee Stadium on Saturday is any indication of what he can do the rest of the way, they can have a solid four starters with Wakefield, David Wells and Matt Clement. But they have that bullpen issue, as in a 5.39 ERA.

"Our bullpen in October can be better than our bullpen in September," says one Boston official. "If we can have [Jonathan] Papelbon and Bronson Arroyo in front of Mike Timlin, even if Keith Foulke doesn't come back, we can be OK."

But it is possible to imagine a couple of 6-4 eighth-inning leads that end up with many broken hearts.

Agent Scott Boras sat with Red Sox owner John Henry and GM Theo Epstein in Anaheim recently. "John made it clear to me that Johnny [Damon] is their priority the way Jason [Varitek] was their priority last year," says Boras. "Like Varitek, they will have every opportunity to sign Johnny."

Right now, it appears the club will offer Damon a similar deal to the four years and $40 million they gave to their superstar catcher this past offseason. Damon has now scored 100 or more runs in eight straight seasons.

As it now stands, look for the Red Sox to try to re-sign both Bill Mueller and John Olerud, and use Kevin Youkilis at both first and third base.

And Cuban refugee Michel Abreu, the 26-year-old, 6-foot-4, 225-pound right-handed slugger that they signed this week for $425,000, outbidding the Marlins and Yankees? The plan is to have him play in the Mexican League, come to spring training and see where he stands, although he may start next season at Double-A Portland. Abreu's numbers his final season in the Cuban professional league (.356, 23 HR, 207 TB, 82 RBI, 78 G) were superior to those of Angels signee Kendry Morales.

"One thing we lack in our organization right now is corner power," says one Sox official. "This seems to be a legitimate gamble." Look for Boston to be very active this winter in Japan, where there are a number of pitchers who may come to the United States.

I would like to learn more about Abreu - I did not hear about this at all. Granted I've been too busy enjoying the college lifestyle, but I have heard NARY A WHISPER about this. And I demand to know more about Abreu, especially if he has superior statistics to Morales. Sure, he's 26, but these are some really, really nice numbers and I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the majors if Mueller goes down next year (if we retain him - and if we do not, I'll castrate Theo but that's another thread.)

[CaptainLaddie]

Evan -

http://sonsofsamhorn...p?showtopic=274 has a bunch of discussion.

[SoxFanSince57]

As it now stands, look for the Red Sox to try to re-sign both Bill Mueller and John Olerud, and use Kevin Youkilis at both first and third base.

This strikes me as a VERY smart move for two reasons. First, these guys produce enough offense in the Sox line-up. There is no pressing need from a runs scored standpoint to go out into a "thin" FA market to upgrade the power numbers. Second, it makes sense from a financial standpoint. IMO, the team should spend on pitching. Clearly, pitching is our number 1, 2 and 3 priority.

[bowiac]

I'll use this thread to issue a mea culpa regarding Olerud.

I was convinced he was done to a degree that even Millar had not yet sniffed. He looked awful to me, even when he was getting hits early.

Well, 134 at bats still isn't a big sample, but it's big enough for me to know that my Olerud bashing was way overdone. I was just wrong.

[AZBlue]

Burn Factor, this is premium content and you have posted very extensive quotes. Sometimes subscribers to premium forget that cookies give them access without having to re-enter their username and password.

[Eddie Jurak]

Signing Olerud and Muller? That would mean another season for Youkilis as a benchwarmer? Francona wouldn't play Youks this year, why should next year be any different? And the chances of Olerud hitting the way he has done this year are slim.

Good grief.

[bsj]

Burn Factor, this is premium content and you have posted very extensive quotes.  Sometimes subscribers to premium forget that cookies give them access without having to re-enter their username and password.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps, AZ, but as a NON subscriber, I for one appreciate the quotes...

Edited by BoSoxJeff, 12 September 2005 - 06:39 AM.

[gcapalbo]

Signing Olerud and Muller?  That would mean another season for Youkilis as a benchwarmer?  Francona wouldn't play Youks this year, why should next year be any different?  And the chances of Olerud hitting the way he has done this year are slim.

Good grief.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have great respect for Olerud as a player, and as a person, but his age, and his history of injuries in the last two seasons leads me to believe he can't last as an everyday player.

You can say something similar about Mueller, with the focus being on knees.

All of this leads me to believe that Youks gets significant playing time at 1st and third, probably even starting for some chunk of the season.

This is predicated by the fact that there is no way Millar is coming back. Youks gets to fill that void.

[Worst Trade Evah]

I'll use this thread to issue a mea culpa regarding Olerud.

I was convinced he was done to a degree that even Millar had not yet sniffed. He looked awful to me, even when he was getting hits early.

Well, 134 at bats still isn't a big sample, but it's big enough for me to know that my Olerud bashing was way overdone. I was just wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I should do this also I guess. I thought Olerud would put up a .725 OPS for the season, slugging under .400, and he looks a good bet to do better than that now. Mea culpa.

I still wish Petagine hadn't gotten hurt early this year, because a full season of Petagine getting decent at bats would have been nice -- particularly early when Millar was so completely worthless. Of course, props to Millar for improving his season, even though his counting stats are still going to suck ass pretty much.

[smastroyin]

This strikes me as a VERY smart move for two reasons.  First, these guys produce enough offense in the Sox line-up.  There is no pressing need from a runs scored standpoint to go out into a "thin" FA market to upgrade the power numbers.  Second, it makes sense from a financial standpoint.  IMO, the team should spend on pitching.  Clearly, pitching is our number 1, 2 and 3 priority.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree 100%.

There comes a time where you have to make the decision to get younger and live with it. Making these decisions constantly is what keeps Oakland as a solid contender. The Red Sox have enough financial resources that they don't have to be that draconian about it, but they don't have enough resources to be the Yankees and wash away every bad veteran performance as the veterans age.

What's the point of a $100 MM development machine if all you are going to do is continue to sign and re-sign your 30 YO+ players?

All in all, I'll be pretty disappointed if the Sox can't get something done for a young 1B. If their solution to getting better on the corners is to re-sign old guys and also take a flyer on a 26 YO Cuban, then color me completely unimpressed.

[yecul]

I must admit I'm not a huge fan of tying the team to all these old players. However, what are their other options? I suppose Mueller to Youks. But what about 1B? People throw around the names of Overbay and Dunn... are those remotely realistic? Then there's CF... not too much available there either. Blah blah blah...

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I must admit I'm not a huge fan of tying the team to all these old players.  However, what are their other options?  I suppose Mueller to Youks.  But what about 1B?  People throw around the names of Overbay and Dunn... are those remotely realistic?  Then there's CF... not too much available there either.  Blah blah blah...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder if we'll bee seing the team take into account something we've recently discussed here on SOSH: the advanced of the prime age of players past the age 27 mark so commonly held to be the peak of a player's career. Perhaps the Sox are not as leery of wedding themselves to players we normally think of as past their prime.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Re-signing Mueller and Olerud won't cost the team much in terms of salary or years, I think it's a no-brainer. Committing to long term, big money deals for veterans on the wrong side of 30 is bad business, giving consistent and undervalued performers short term deals at low money is smart business.

[smastroyin]

I must admit I'm not a huge fan of tying the team to all these old players.  However, what are their other options?  I suppose Mueller to Youks.  But what about 1B?  People throw around the names of Overbay and Dunn... are those remotely realistic?  Then there's CF... not too much available there either.  Blah blah blah...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, yecul, there is a whole thread in Members Only about 1B possibilities. Most of what I see there is more attractive than an Olerud/Youks platoon. I think people are insane if they think Youks will hit enough to be an asset at 1B.

[philly sox fan]

Well, yecul, there is a whole thread in Members Only about 1B possibilities.  Most of what I see there is more attractive than an Olerud/Youks platoon.  I think people are insane if they think Youks will hit enough to be an asset at 1B.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YOuks has a 817 OPS vs LHP in a tiny number of AB. Even if you just think of him as a 780 OPS hitter overall, then a normal platoon split would put him around 825 vs LHP. That's not a major asset, but it's workable for half of a platoon.

In a Youk/Olerud platoon I'd be less concerned about what Youk will do in 200 AB, then with what Olerud would do in his 400 AB. As good as Olerud has been this year, he could easily throw up a 775 OPS next year and that would hurt some.

[yecul]

Millar doesn't hit enough to be a 1B either.

But, yes, I've read that thread. I'm skeptical of the availability of many of those options. On top of that, a lot of them are the AAAA types with huge potential, but not much of a ML track record (if any). We may not be that adverse to that, but the FO seems to be at times.

[philly sox fan]

I wonder if we'll bee seing the team take into account something we've recently discussed here on SOSH: the advanced of the prime age of players past the age 27 mark so commonly held to be the peak of a player's career. Perhaps the Sox are not as leery of wedding themselves to players we normally think of as past their prime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last winter I looked at how different positions aged from 33-35 and CFers held their value better than any other position. It's generally true that athletic players age better.

I can see a 4/40M deal with Damon working out fine.

[OttoC]

I can see a 4/40M deal with Damon working out fine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you think Steinbrenner will let the Red Sox have Damon for that package? Does Damon have enough regard for Boston to turn down 4/45 or 5/50, or somesuch?

[jacklamabe65]

I suspect that Theo will sign Olderdude for insurance, pinch-hitting, and defensive purposes with the notion that Youks will be the everyday first baseman.

P.S. I want Bill Mueller on next year's team.

[smastroyin]

I'm not against signing Damon for four years and I wasn't against Varitek either. This is mostly due to the fact that they are playing positions with a high replacement cost.

However, this is already one of the oldest teams in the majors. If you re-sign Mueller and Olerud, then you have a team filled with guys age 33+, one guy who is 31 (Renteria), one guy in a half-time role who's 27 (Youks), and one guy who maybe gets a chance to win a job at 23 (Pedroia).

I dunno, maybe it's just me. But the whole strategy of "better the devil you know than the devil you don't" just seems too risk-averse/low reward for what is supposed to be a progressive organization.

Steve

[PedroKsBambino]

Gammons also had this note in there:

If the Marlins do not make the playoffs, they will lose $20 million-$30 million, likely cannot get a ballpark built and will have to try to trade Carlos Delgado to the Mets before Omar Minaya, the Mets' GM, starts tinkering with acquiring Manny Ramirez. If the Mets continue to dive and Carlos Beltran gets booed right on into October, it will be interesting to see the Mets' response if and when the Red Sox reiterate the offer they made in July of Ramirez for Beltran. It would save New York close to $30 million.

Wow.

[philly sox fan]

Do you think Steinbrenner will let the Red Sox have Damon for that package? Does Damon have enough regard for Boston to turn down 4/45 or 5/50, or somesuch?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe. Last year the Yankees didn't bid on Beltran because they wanted to pour their resources into the rotation.

That worked out so well for NY that we could see that pattern repeat itself - theyll throw their money at Burnett or whomever and try to go a little cheaper in CF.

I guess they could do Burnett and Damon, but if the choice is Burnett/Pierre or Damon/cheaper starter, then I bet they do with the former.

[Clears Cleaver]

the Yankees are not going to sign Burnett. another NL starter with arm troubles? no way

[Worst Trade Evah]

Gammons also had this note in there:
Wow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had no idea a Ramirez/Beltran thing was even a possibility, but my gut instinct is that I would make that deal in a flash. Beltran has been playing hurt this year. His confidence is suffering -- he recently tried to bunt with runners on 1st and 2nd and one out. Randolph was furious.

[The Burn Factor]

Thanks, Capt.Laddie. Appreciate it.

[HomeRunBaker]

Re-signing Mueller and Olerud won't cost the team much in terms of salary or years, I think it's a no-brainer. Committing to long term, big money deals for veterans on the wrong side of 30 is bad business, giving consistent and undervalued performers short term deals at low money is smart business.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that Mueller and Olerud are no-brainers primarily due to cost control and other options at those positions which are slim despite ideas in the MembersOnly thread that are pipe dreams and/or carry great performance risk at the major league level.

Olerud had two consecutive sucky seasons playing for a manager who did not seem to understand that John was no longer a 155 game per year player. Youks will most definitely see a good amount of time at 1B if it is only he and Olerud to open the season.....which still may not be the case. They are a competent and safe combination in a lineup that only needs cheap average production from this position with all our contract escalators in '06 and the resigning of Damon. The 1B must be a power hitter fun thingie does not apply to this team with our bats throughout the lineup.....receiving so much production from the catcher position lessens the strain of needing power at "traditional" defensive positions.

What's the point of a $100 MM development machine if all you are going to do is continue to sign and re-sign your 30 YO+ players?

To compete for World Championships each and every year?

With the current economic structure in baseball and a smart management team the Boston Red Sox should never have to undergo a "rebuilding" year or go into spring with question marks that are not related to injury which also can be controlled to an extent with veteran players who have track records in not only production but durability as well.

Part of this management is to be protected in case of injury or production risk. Youks is the perfect 1B/3B type of utility player who could see 300-400 ABs in that role over the course of next season if we go with Mueller and Olerud at the corners. Beginning the year with Olerud and Youks creates severe depth problems at both positions due to John's inability to be a productive full-time 1B due to age/injury and the lack of a full season track record for Youks as major league scouts and pitchers make adjustments.

[PedroKsBambino]

A Beltran/Manny swap was tossed around here near the deadline, but I don't think anyone believed it was really on the table or possible.

It sounds like the Mets said no, but you do have to wonder if that answer will change.

[DieHard3]

Gammons also had this note in there:
Wow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My my my. Beltran in CF, Damon to LF where his rag arm doesn't hurt as much. If Manny's advanced defensive metrics suckitude is to be believed, then the defensive upgrade alone would be worth 35 runs over a full season.

It'd be risky taking on all that money for Beltran given the terrible offensive season he's had this year, but risk comes with potential rewards. If Beltran is a 900 OPS player, and Manny's decline in for real (this is 2 years of a big drop in AVG), then that trade would be very good.

[Steve Dillard]

Gag. Splat. Mush. Hate that deal. Beltran is overrated based on his Houston hot streak, and is locked in to too much money. Replacing Manny's remaining 3 years with 6 years of Beltran would make me puke, as you're still paying "now" premium money for an average guy. I'd much rather "over" pay Damon $12 per for 4 years than Beltran $15 for 6. Not overpaying Beltran, even though they had a need and a begging client, was the best move the Yanks made.

And frankly, the limited space in center makes Beltran's strength on defense somewhat irrelevant, and the Sox's not running makes Beltran's basestealing irrelevant.

Edited by Steve Dillard, 12 September 2005 - 09:13 AM.

[ctsoxfan5]

My apologies because I know this has been posted here before, but can someone provide a link to a website that has player salaries (past and future)? I'd like to check out Beltran's contract and others as well. Thanks.

[Worst Trade Evah]

The Yankees are going to clear the salaries of Brown ($15.7mil) and Williams ($12.35mil) this year, plus some odds and ends. They'll probably have to offer a little more to Matsui, but, if they keep their current payroll expenses constant, they'll be big or even bigger players in the free agent market again. There's been a lot of talk about the Yankee payroll this year -- is there a chance they actually reduce it?

There's also a possiblity they'll be double-paying for a manager, if Torre ($6mil) is sent away and a new guy brought in (Piniella, if he gets bought out in Tampa Bay?). Torre's number is not an insignificant expense.

I bet Torre stays and they do take Bernie's money and wave it in front of Burnett. They'd still have enough left to make a big play for Damon, which I bet they do, if for not other reason than to drive Boston's expense up (as we did with Bernie).

[DieHard3]

The Yankees are going to clear the salaries of Brown ($15.7mil) and Williams ($12.35mil) this year, plus some odds and ends. They'll probably have to offer a little more to Matsui, but, if they keep their current payroll expenses constant, they'll be big or even bigger players in the free agent market again. There's been a lot of talk about the Yankee payroll this year -- is there a chance they actually reduce it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Their contracts are all very backloaded. Jeter, Mussina, and Giambi probably go up a combined $15 or maybe even 20 million from their current levels to the levels near the end of their contracts. I think Johnson goes from $12 million this year to $16 million next year.

Edited by DieHard3, 12 September 2005 - 09:16 AM.

[NJ Fan]

The people who are arguing to bring Mueller back next year seem to be assuming that the guy would be willing to sign a 1-yr deal at @ $3 mil just because he likes being here.

This is his last opportunity to get financial security for himself and his family and IMO some team will offer him 2 years at $7-8mm+. (That's 7-8 total, not per.)

I'd like him back, too, (for one year) but not for 2 yrs guaranteed and I can't imagine the Sox FO will give him that either.

[Rudy Pemberton]

If the Mets continue to dive and Carlos Beltran gets booed right on into October, it will be interesting to see the Mets' response if and when the Red Sox reiterate the offer they made in July of Ramirez for Beltran. It would save New York close to $30 million.

Gammons does this kind of stuff all the time, and it annoys the hell out of me. He casually mentions that the Sox offered Ramirez for Beltran in July as if it was common knowledge....does anyone ever recall him reporting this before? If not, why not? Seems like it would have been big news at the time. Gammons was reporting on the negotiations five times a day and now reports this, but not then? What's the deal?

Maybe. Last year the Yankees didn't bid on Beltran because they wanted to pour their resources into the rotation.

Or, because they realized that Beltran wasn't worth close to what he got. Who knows? With the way RJ has pitched against the Sox, I still think he's far more likely to be a factor in a short series.

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 12 September 2005 - 09:24 AM.

[Punchado]

I can see the Chokers going after Damon and Burnett. The CFY braintrust seems very caught up in the perception of what is wrong with their club. They've been getting killed all year for not signing Beltran and having Bernie in CF. It's like they don't really understand what's wrong with their team until their team sucks in a particular area and even the dufus in the bleachers can see it. CF will be a huge priority for them. They'll go hard after Damon, probably not sign him and be stuck with Pierre. They might not break the bank for Burnett, but they will go after him (especially after the FA market actually heats up and he's touted as the best SP available).

[NJ Fan]

I'm with you, Rudy, on the Ramirez-Beltran "offer." I thought it had been Cameron and prospects and they also couldn't agree on the money the Sox would eat..

Edit: And I agree with Punchado and others that NYY will also go after Burnett despite their history of arm woes with other NL pitchers. It's the Yankees after all.

Edited by NJ Fan, 12 September 2005 - 09:24 AM.

[manny25]

Beltran's contract in the next couple of years is:

14/14/10/10/10/10 with 3.14 paid from 2012 to 2018 as deferred money.

Yankees already have a payroll of 147 million for next year.

[Eddie Jurak]

Regarding Mueller, Olerud and Youks: We have already seen Francona's idea of a job sharing arrangement between Mueller and Youks - Mueller plays every day, period.

If Francona were interested in giving Youks a decent amount of work at 3B, he would have done it. If Mueller is back next year, Youks will get about 20 starts at 3B unless Mueller is injured for any length of time.

As for Olerud, we have 2-3 years of subpar hitting from the guy along with one part time year of good production. What reason is there to think that as he gets older he will continue to be that good? I'd rather see them count on Petagine (if it came to a choice between ther two), since he is younger and has a better pre-05 track record of success.

I would offer arbitration to Bill Mueller, and bring him back for one year if he accepts.

[PedroKsBambino]

Gammons presumably had the story at the time and decided not to run with it. Remember that he was at the HOF at the deadline and didn't really have a "rumors" column right before the deadline. I'd imagine that he maintains his contacts by having some sensitivity to when info is released as well; there's nothing wrong with that.

I do think that it, once again, points out that overreacting to the first rumors leaked often gets us all up in arms over swaps that aren't even discussed by the teams in question. This seemed very true of the Manny to the Mets discussions.

I'm not sure that Damon in LF/Beltran in CF makes a great deal of sense. If you get Beltran, I suspect it's because you want to use a guy in LF with less defensive value than Damon.

[Rudy Pemberton]

But how do we know that Gammons revelation is in fact, true? Do we believe what he said previously was false, or that this is? Hard to know, isn't it?

As a LF, Damon loses a ton of his value. There's no way the Sox assume Beltran's deal and then give Damon $40M+ to play left.

I can't understand why the Sox would do Beltran for Manny, it makes them worse now (doesn't it?) and assumes a lot of risk in a guy who, in my opinion, has never been a great player. With just three years left on Manny's deal, I don't see the point.

[Lose Remerswaal]

But how do we know that Gammons revelation is in fact, true? Do we believe what he said previously was false, or that this is? Hard to know, isn't it?

As a LF, Damon loses a ton of his value. There's no way the Sox assume Beltran's deal and then give Damon $40M+ to play left.

I can't understand why the Sox would do Beltran for Manny, it makes them worse now (doesn't it?) and assumes a lot of risk in a guy who, in my opinion, has never been a great player. With just three years left on Manny's deal, I don't see the point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a LF, Damons' raggedy arm no longer hurts so badly, although you do waste alot of his speed.

[PedroKsBambino]

Gammons didn't say anything in the past contrary to this, though, did he? I'm not sure why the suggestion is that he's changed his story. Maybe I missed something. As I've noted in the past many times, we don't know what's true; I think Gammons has the best sources and is far more likely to have a very big story correct than the beat writers who had the earlier stuff, much of which was hard to see the logic in.

The question is whether Damon on a 4-5 year deal, plus Manny, is better than Beltran on his deal and a LF. It depends on who the LF is, obviously, and what it costs to get him (in dollars and in prospects).

That swap definitely makes the team different...can't possibly say "worse" without seeing the other half of the substitution though IMO

[DLew On Roids]

the Yankees are not going to sign Burnett. another NL starter with arm troubles? no way

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're making the assumption that the Yankees learn from their mistakes. I would disagree--they identify a problem and go after whatever they define as the resolution.

I do think they'll go hard after Damon because he not only fills a hole but his departure would weaken the Sox. Damon is probably more marketable as an endorser in Boston, though--in NY he's just another player behind Jeter and ARod, here he's an icon--so the Sox may not have to pay him as much to keep him.

The one thing you can bank on: Some schlub in the national media will pick the Yankees to win 120 games next year.

As a LF, Damons' raggedy arm no longer hurts so badly, although you do waste alot of his speed.

Maybe you deal Manny for Beltran, put Beltran in RF, and move Trot to LF. More speed in the big side of the park and now you only need to add a lefty-masher who can play LF.

Edited by DLew On Roids, 12 September 2005 - 09:43 AM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

As a LF, Damons' raggedy arm no longer hurts so badly, although you do waste alot of his speed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not convinced that Damon's poor arm hurts us at all in CF, because the bulk of his value in CF comes from his ability to run balls down, not throw runners out.

it would be a terrible waste of resources to use Damon in LF because he is capable to covering CF extremely well. IMHO, the lack of a strong throwing arm in center field is not nearly the problem that some people would like to make of it. A lack of range in CF would be a much greater problem, and thankfully Damon's range is terrific.

[ShaneTrot]

I have always liked Youk but this is the year I became a fanboy. He absolutely crushed the ball in AAA. A 1.051 OPS is pretty damn good. I bet he outperforms the Pro next year. Is 2006 the year when the Sox start really making headway with the $100 million dollar development machine? Youk at third, Pedroia at second, Delcarmen in the bullpen, and Papelbon either in the rotation or bullpen. All 4 of those guys are cheaper than 2005 Alan Embree.

Spend the money on the pitching staff and either re-upping Damon or his replacement in center.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Gammons didn't say anything in the past contrary to this, though, did he? I'm not sure why the suggestion is that he's changed his story. Maybe I missed something. As I've noted in the past many times, we don't know what's true; I think Gammons has the best sources and is far more likely to have a very big story correct than the beat writers who had the earlier stuff, much of which was hard to see the logic in.

Gammons was reporting on this story multiple times a day and throwing out all types of names that were involved in rumors. To the best of my knowledge, he never once mentioned Beltran. Why not, and why now? This is kind of like the Drew / Beltre rumors he brought up...he never reported it at the time, only casually throwing it in months later as if everyone already knew. I guess it's just tough to know what is real. With all the rumors going on- it would be interesting that no one ever reported something involving Beltran until now, wouldn't it?

[PedroKsBambino]

Gammons was doing the HOF induction around the deadline, he really wasn't reporting much at all in that timeframe. It's just not true that he's changed his story.

Note also (as I've already said) that there's a lot of reasons why he might not have included the info in July---asked to keep it in confidence, didn't have the info, didn't have confirmation, etc. So what? You can believe him now or not, either is a reasonable choice.

[The Gray Eagle]

"As it now stands, look for the Red Sox to try to re-sign both Bill Mueller and John Olerud, and use Kevin Youkilis at both first and third base."

Sweet, that is the way to go, as long as they re-sign Damon. This team will get younger when the minor leaguers come up and start taking jobs away from the vets. If they're good enough, they will do it. If they're not good enough, then it'd be dumb to get rid of vets to make room for them. Pedroia will take the second base job next year, making us younger there. Youks will take PT at third and first. Those players alone will make the lineup younger.

One problem: if they let Damon get to the open market, they're going to lose him. They'd better get the deal done during the exclusive negotiating period after the season.

If they trade Manny for Beltran, I doubt they'd bring back Damon. I don't like that deal very much. Manny's declining a bit and Beltran's been hurt and should be better in Fenway than in that pitcher's park. But that deal hurts our offense too much. Who's our leadoff hitter? Who bats after Ortiz? They'd need to get another big bat if they do that move, and still wouldn't have a leadoff hitter.

I think many people underrate the value of a leadoff hitter who not only gets on base but scores runs once he's there. Damon's an excellent baserunner who gets excellent jumps from first on extra-base hits and from second on singles.

[Morassofnegativity]

Damon's an excellent baserunner who gets excellent jumps

This team needs that skill too.

[smastroyin]

To compete for World Championships each and every year? 

With the current economic structure in baseball and a smart management team the Boston Red Sox should never have to undergo a "rebuilding" year or go into spring with question marks that are not related to injury which also can be controlled to an extent with veteran players who have track records in not only production but durability as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Corner talent is typically very cheaply available. I don't see how you could construe a team which already has Manny, Ortiz, Damon, Varitek, Renteria, Schilling, Foulke, et al as a rebuilding team.

This is just the type of risk-averse management that I'm talking about. Well Mueller has done the job and doesn't want too much money so let's continue to go with him. Sure, it sounds fine in a vacuum. Then you say the same thing for Graffanino. Then you say the same thing for Olerud. Then Timlin. Then next year you say the same thing for Trot, for Mirabelli, et al.

Those guys aren't likely to help you win in 2007 or 2008.

At some point you have to clear room on the 25 man roster, for guys who have a future. It is easily possible, and profitable, to compete for a world championship and have these guys. To suggest that it isn't is nothing more a complete lack of faith in the organization's scouting and development process. Hey, maybe you're right, but in that case, we are in a whole lot of trouble.

Steve