Jump to content


Yo! You're not logged in. Why am I seeing this ad?

SOSH

OK we're back on our main server.  It was taking a super long time to move *everything* back just to save a day's worth of messages.  I've been at this all day now and need to get back to my real job so.,... sorry.  Working on a better plan in case this happens again.  nip

Photo

Red Sox Spring Training 2006


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
985 replies to this topic

#1 staz


  • Intangible


  • 4442 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:57 PM

Didn't see any mention of this anywhere, but according to ProJo, Keith Foulke was the first vet to arrive in Ft. Myers, and threw for 13 minutes on Tuesday.

From Rotoworld:
That's "a great sign," manager Terry Francona said. "I think, in his own mind, he feels like he has some work to do and something to prove." Foulke had surgery on his left knee in July and on his right knee in October. There's no question that he'll be ready for Opening Day, but it remains uncertain whether he'll be the Keith Foulke of 2004 or the one who struggled mightily last year.

He has "work to do", and "something to prove". I'm hoping it's more of the latter.

#2 templeUsox


  • SoSH Member


  • 6418 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 01:04 PM

To me, the key storyline to follow through ST is the Pedroia/Gonzalez battle for SS. IMO, the Sox have approached this position battle very astutely. Worst comes to worst, we have a major league SS starting the season. But I think if it was up to me, I would start ST with D-Ped having the edge 60/40. The Gonzalez signing takes the pressure off of Pedroia, but it also doesn't let him get his guard down. What the WBC does, and I'm sure Gonzalez knows this, is open the door that much more for Pedroia to show off his skillset and impress the coaches in ST. We all have heard about Pedroia's work ethic, I think if he plays well in ST the job is his.

Edited by templeUsox, 15 February 2006 - 01:04 PM.


#3 woofer

  • 599 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 01:18 PM

To me, the key storyline to follow through ST is the Pedroia/Gonzalez battle for SS.  IMO, the Sox have approached this position battle very astutely.  Worst comes to worst, we have a major league SS starting the season.  But I think if it was up to me, I would start ST with D-Ped having the edge 60/40.  The Gonzalez signing takes the pressure off of Pedroia, but it also doesn't let him get his guard down.  What the WBC does, and I'm sure Gonzalez knows this, is open the door that much more for Pedroia to show off his skillset and impress the coaches in ST.  We all have heard about Pedroia's work ethic, I think if he plays well in ST the job is his.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


IMO the slight edge has to go to Gonzalez, but at this point that "edge" doesn't mean much at all, except as a motivational tool for DP. The fact that they have the option of cutting Gonzalez at a low cost will help send the message to Pedroia that the job can be his, if he shows both an ability to make solid contact, and more importantly range and a consistent arm from the hole-- but that it is his to win, not to lose. Unless he makes an eye-opening showing the Sox will (and ought) to go with the "proven" veteran in Gonzalez, at least for the first few months of the season.

Edited by woofer, 15 February 2006 - 01:18 PM.


#4 Mike F


  • Mayor of Fort Myers


  • 1887 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 01:59 PM

Just a note. Bronson Arroyo was on the practice field, albeit an unofficial practice, last week. But your point is taken.

BoSoxLady, BoSoxGent and I will be on hand to document the arrival of THE VAN tomorrow. I am sure some pictures will make their way past the censors to the forum.

We will also check out whomever else is visable in camp.

#5 Lucen


  • ERA=(ER/IP)*9


  • 3348 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 02:06 PM

IMO the slight edge has to go to Gonzalez, but at this point that "edge" doesn't mean much at all, except as a motivational tool for DP.  The fact that they have the option of cutting Gonzalez at a low cost will help send the message to Pedroia that the job can be his, if he shows both an ability to make solid contact, and more importantly range and a consistent arm from the hole-- but that it is his to win, not to lose.  Unless he makes an eye-opening showing the Sox will (and ought) to go with the "proven" veteran in Gonzalez, at least for the first few months of the season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


If the FO has as low of an opinion regarding AGonz's hitting as most of this board, then all Pedroia needs to do if flash a defensive glove that is comperable Gonzo's (defensive glove is meant to be a catch all for defense, including arm, so please don't take that to mean I think his arm is unimportant) gain the advantage. I mean, I can't imagine Pedroia's bat will be as bad as some think AGonz's bat already is.

I doubt the FO has that low of an opinion regarding Gonzalez's offensive abilities, though. Or else they wouldn't have signed him, as they already had Cora on the roster. I'd like to see DP earn a starting spot, but at this point, I'd guess that would be a pleasent surprise, and not the expected result. In any case, I too look forward to seeing them duke it out in spring training.

#6 BigMike


  • SoSH Member


  • 18019 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 02:25 PM

I see no way Pedroia enters Spring training as the favorite or even an even money pick to be the starting SS.

They wen't out and aquired Gonzalez to be the starter. this doesn't mean that Pedroia can't steal the job with an amazing Spring, but he has to clearly outplay Gonzalez, and even then I'd think Gonzalez would need to have a very bad Spring.

#7 Monster Dick Radatz

  • 1151 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 02:33 PM

Exactly BigMike. Despite the fact that Pedroia has always been an option, the FO still went out and signed Seabass. I would be shocked if Gonzalez was not the starter on April 3rd.

#8 Eddie Jurak


  • Go Leafs Go


  • 8451 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 02:35 PM

I see no way Pedroia enters Spring training as the favorite or even an even money pick to be the starting SS.

I don't think Pedroia has a snowball's chance in hell of opening as the starting SS. The Sox will want him to have some sustained success in AAA before they hand him a major league job.

The one tiny outside shot Pedroia has is that Gonzalez contract is not guaranteed if the Sox cut him before Opening Day. So maybe if he holds up a bank in Fort Myers, or something, they willd ecide to cut bait on him, opeing the door for Pedroia.

#9 Vermonter At Large


  • SoxFan


  • 3060 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 02:40 PM

I see no way Pedroia enters Spring training as the favorite or even an even money pick to be the starting SS.

They wen't out and aquired Gonzalez to be the starter.  this doesn't mean that Pedroia can't steal the job with an amazing Spring, but he has to clearly outplay Gonzalez, and even then I'd think Gonzalez would need to have a very bad Spring.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Absolutely. In fact, there are no rookie vs veteran position battles at all this Spring Training, so we might as well accept that right now. The only way that any rookie is going to be starting (and that includes Papelbon in the starting rotation) is if a veteran gets injured, traded or there is such a catastrophic display of suckitude on behalf of the veteran that the F.O. believes he will probably not recover from it.

Having said that, a good spring by Pedroia or Papelbon or Delcarmen or Hansen might define the constraints under which the incumbent veteran is going to get summarily dumped if gets off to a slow start.

Edited by Vermonter At Large, 15 February 2006 - 02:43 PM.


#10 SoxFanPJ


  • call me Chester


  • 3854 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 02:45 PM

If he does well in ST, I don't think Pedroia will win the SS job. I would expect him to get a late season call up, serve as a super utlity IF, and get a starting job in 2007 (2B or SS).

In my view Pedroia has two things working against him.

1) The team has sought to make prospects earn their promotion based on perfromance, while he performed very well in AA, injury limited his season at AAA and I would expect the team wants him to show them that he deserves a spot on the big club.

2) His aribitration clock. The longer they can keep him in the minors, the longer they can control him through his peak years. Waiting to call him up till later this season may mean they get to keep him for an extra year down the road. There are those that will argue that since the Sox have money this should be less of a concern to them, but all players are commodities and you have to look not only at Pedroia's value to the Sox but also his value to other teams. If the Sox ever where to decide to trade him to a smaller market team, having him under team control for an extra year would be extremely valuable.

Unless A-Gon and Cora suffer injuries(knock on wood) in the WBC or ST then I don't think there is really a chance that Pedroia starts in Boston.

#11 OilCanShotTupac


  • Not Clowning Around


  • 7678 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 02:52 PM

Composition of the bench is still very much an open question.

There's a logjam of middle-infielder types with Cora, Graffanino, and possibly Pedroia and Willie Harris.

In the outfield are Stern and Mohr, with Harris possible as a 5th outfielder type (plus the possible return of Kapler mid-year, which I am not optomistic about).

Catcher has Bard/Flaherty/Huckaby which has been discussed elsewhere.

I know the board consensus is that Graf gets moved, but even if you take that as a given, there are dozens of possible permutations for the bench. This is where spring will be important IMO.

#12 Paul M


  • SoSH Member


  • 10376 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 02:58 PM

If I were to place odds on Pedroia as the SS, I'd say 30%. I'd hope they won't weight the 40-50 ABs anymore than they would for any other small sample. I thought he might make it as a utility guy, but he would benefit from regular action and getting consistent playing time. I think he could be up on August 1st though.

I'll be interested to see how the bullpen arms perform, and the vets with disappointing 2005s--Lowell, Nixon, and Loretta.

#13 941827

  • 3303 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 03:21 PM

The only way that any rookie is going to be starting (and that includes Papelbon in the starting rotation) is if a veteran gets injured, traded or there is such a catastrophic display of suckitude on behalf of the veteran that the F.O. believes he will probably not recover from it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


On a related note, keep in mind that Foulke's and Bellhorn's 2004 Spring Training performances could be described as having been "catastrophic display[s] of suckitude," yet the FO didn't panic with regard to either of them (at least not publicly). Unless a position is affirmatively "in play" during the spring, and I don't think that's the case with any position this year, I think the FO's policy will be that a position has to be lost during the regular season, rather than the spring (or, put better, that a bad spring performance will have to continue into the regular season before they start drawing conclusions). Obviously, trades or injuries would be exceptions to that policy.

#14 woofer

  • 599 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 03:36 PM

I'll be interested to see how the bullpen arms perform, and the vets with disappointing 2005s--Lowell, Nixon, and Loretta.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Agreed. IMO, on some level this is really the whole key to the season, so its the most interesting storyline going in. We do have depth (Lowell is somewhat protected by Youk, and some might think Loretta is covered by Pedroia, Timlin covers Foulke), but the Sox are going to need rebound seasons from at least half these guys to avoid having major holes early on.

#15 The Gray Eagle


  • SoSH Member


  • 8909 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:31 PM

I just can't see them cutting Gonzalez and going with Pedroia right out of the gate. If you just start the season with Gonzalez and keep Pedroia in the minors, then you control both players and have depth. If you cut Gonzalez and go with Pedroia, you have much less depth. You have an unproven rookie and Alex Cora at a key position, and that's it.

IMO, the front office has shown that they like to keep control over as many players as possible for as long as possible. I just don't see any way that they cut Gonzalez before the season, unless he looks absolutely terrible in both the WBC and spring training, while Pedroia and Cora both look amazing. Even then, I'd be really surprised, as springtime flukes often don't carry over through a long season.

Gonzalez's contract is already in the budget, the extra depth he gives us at a crucial position is worth the money. The only way he'd be cut is if we somehow made a trade to bring in a great SS between now and the season (i.e., Tejada.) I doubt that's happening.

I'll be shocked if Gonzalez doesn't get a few months at SS to show what he can do.

#16 smastroyin


  • simpering whimperer


  • 15976 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:35 PM

I thought we already pretty much determined that the out-clause is almost entirely to make sure that his elbow doesn't blow up before the season starts. I would imagine that unless he shows signs of being injured, he will be on the team.

#17 satyadaimoku


  • wicked gunner


  • PipPip
  • 4224 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:51 PM

Between the Gonzalez out clause and the continued Tony Graffinino and David Wells non-trade, is anyone else suspicious that there may be more going on in these last couple of weeks than the Front Office is letting on? If we were able to quietly put together a Julio Lugo trade, that would be such a terrific coup for this organization, and we have the tradeable talent to make a fair offer for him (whether we have enough to meet the unreasonable demands of the DRays is another matter, but there are other shortstops out there).

I just feel like there's more to this Gonzalez out clause than just the elbow issue. Wouldn't that be covered by insurance anyway?

#18 someoneanywhere

  • 3056 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 05:07 PM

I think it's important to reiterate that there are two "out" clauses in the AGon deal:


"The Herald also reported that Gonzalez is guaranteed just $500,000 if he is cut before March 15 and $750,000 if he does not make the Opening Day roster. If he makes it on the team by Opening Day, then he would receive the full $3 million."

To me this indicates more than health concerns, although health is certainly a factor. I still think some of the flexibility is there in case, by some add chance, the FO swings Manny in ST and ends up with Tejeda. I am not saying it will happen, only that it is a contigency the FO has provided for in the contract. The contract also foresees the contigency -- not the actuality -- of Ped winning the job.

#19 woofer

  • 599 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 06:09 PM

I just feel like there's more to this Gonzalez out clause than just the elbow issue.  Wouldn't that be covered by insurance anyway?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I am not an insurance expert, nor do I have any personal knowledge of Seabass' insurance situation, but given his elbow problems the last two years, my guess is the Sox could not get his elbow insured for any reasonable amount of money, so my guess is that he is not insured. So, I agree that the out-clause probably has something to do with roster flexibility in case of a trade, but I wouldn't count on insurance helping us out if he gets injured after opening day.

#20 Vermonter At Large


  • SoxFan


  • 3060 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 09:04 PM

I'm not quite sure how the whole notion that signing Graffanino made him trade bait came about. In my view, Graffanino is insurance in case either Loretta, Gonzalez or Lowell fail to pan out. Frankly, I think the odds of all three making complete recoveries is only logical under the effect of RCG's. I think the Sox are absolutely going to go with both Cora and Graffanino and have always planned on that for this reason.

Edited by Vermonter At Large, 15 February 2006 - 09:05 PM.


#21 Rudy Pemberton


  • just plum doesn't understand


  • 27043 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 09:56 PM

I see no way you can break camp with Graffanino, Loretta, Cora, Lowell, and Gonzalez though.....and since you already have Machado and Harris (nm Pedroia)- Graffy is pretty redundant. I think if you can get anything for him you do it- he's not nearly as good as he played last year, IMO. Dumping him to lose the salary seems like a decent idea, because if push comes to shove you'll have to release Graffanino or Cora, likely (if no one gets hurt)

#22 thisyearisthe

  • 1385 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 10:15 PM

I see no way you can break camp with Graffanino, Loretta, Cora, Lowell, and Gonzalez though.....and since you already have Machado and Harris (nm Pedroia)- Graffy is pretty redundant. I think if you can get anything for him you do it- he's not nearly as good as he played last year, IMO. Dumping him to lose the salary seems like a decent idea, because if push comes to shove you'll have to release Graffanino or Cora, likely (if no one gets hurt)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah, no way both Cora and Graff make the team. I'm guessing the A-Gon contract was structured to give Theo the opportunity to make a Lugo deal or a Bill Hall deal or whatever. He has some pitching to move. Graff or Cora can go as well.

#23 nhfred

  • 34 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:25 PM

On a related note, keep in mind that Foulke's and Bellhorn's 2004 Spring Training performances could be described as having been "catastrophic display[s] of suckitude," yet the FO didn't panic with regard to either of them (at least not publicly).  Unless a position is affirmatively "in play" during the spring, and I don't think that's the case with any position this year, I think the FO's policy will be that a position has to be lost during the regular season, rather than the spring (or, put better, that a bad spring performance will have to continue into the regular season before they start drawing conclusions).  Obviously, trades or injuries would be exceptions to that policy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Amen to that, particularly Foulke. At ST in 2004 I saw Foulke get shelled and wondered why we got him. Once the season started he settled in and started getting the outs, but I must admit, I still didn't know how he did it. He is a very strange closer who has a stealth approach when he he on his game.

All this is to agree that I would not jump to any conclusions one way or the other on the basis of Foulke's ST. We will know how he is once the games begin for real.

#24 anaxamandr


  • Unleashed the Brent


  • 745 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:26 PM

Is there any chance at all that the Rays might take Clement and Graf and Stern for Lugo and an outfielder (Baldelli perhaps or Gathright)? That move would improve the Sox at SS, and also free up a roster spot for Papelbon (or Vermilyea or Van Buren)?
I haven't heard this mentioned at all, just throwing it out there. It might make sense for both teams.

#25 Bowlerman9


  • bitchslapped by Keith Law


  • 5028 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:30 PM

Is there any chance at all that the Rays might take Clement and Graf and Stern for Lugo and an outfielder (Baldelli perhaps or Gathright)? That move would improve the Sox at SS, and also free up a roster spot for Papelbon (or Vermilyea or Van Buren)?
I haven't heard this mentioned at all, just throwing it out there. It might make sense for both teams.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


TB wouldnt even consider that for Lugo alone. Not a chance in the world. Forget the OFer.

They'd want Lester and Stern for Lugo. Not a pitcher they cant afford and a 2B they have no use for.

#26 anaxamandr


  • Unleashed the Brent


  • 745 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:51 PM

You're probably right. I had had a few and forgot the intransigence of the TB FO. That coupled with their absurd demands for Lugo and/or Gathright earlier this offseason means there is no way they would do that deal. Its too bad tho, we have too many IFs they have too many OFs, its a shame we can't make a deal that doesn't involve either team giving up something major.

#27 Paradigm


  • juju all over his tits


  • 5839 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 12:01 AM

I think that Graffanino is probably very much on the trading block along with David Wells. I have no clue who the Red Sox could get for Wells, but there should be many teams interested in a player like Graffanino -- a great utilty infielder with some pop off the bench. I know that Colorado looked into him earlier. Graff would do well there, he could inflate his stats for a season and then look for another job in 2007. I also think that I read that the Cubs were interested in Graff.

the Golden Sombrero -- updated

#28 SoxFanPJ


  • call me Chester


  • 3854 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 03:43 AM

Youk:

''He's going to play a lot," Francona said earlier this week. ''We have J.T. Snow to complement him. Who gets the majority of at-bats, we don't know. J.T. [will soon be] 38. We think Youk's ready to assume some responsibility and be a regular major league player. We think he deserves it."


http://www.boston.co...he_show/?page=1

John Henry:

  “By late last year we knew it was time to begin the process of getting younger. You don’t want to wake up someday and see almost all of your key players past their prime. We’re not going crazy with a youth movement. We’re still going to be a very mature team, but the 2004 team would look different in 2007 and 2008. And in the case of Johnny, we absolutely did want him back — no matter what anyone may say to the contrary.”
 
    “We have succeeded in gaining a lot of flexibility going forward,” Henry said. “That bodes well for the future. It is something we haven’t had a lot of.”


http://redsox.boston...&format=&page=1

More from Henry:

“All of the owners I have met — I cannot think of one outlier — place winning above profit,” said Henry. “Baseball is trying to become a profitable enterprise despite that fact. You don’t buy a baseball team to make money. I argued with David Ginsberg, who chairs the Red Sox finance committee, when we bought the team. He tried to tell me we were going to make money. I told him he was crazy.”


http://redsox.boston...&format=&page=4

#29 Vermonter At Large


  • SoxFan


  • 3060 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 06:12 AM

I see no way you can break camp with Graffanino, Loretta, Cora, Lowell, and Gonzalez though.....and since you already have Machado and Harris (nm Pedroia)- Graffy is pretty redundant. I think if you can get anything for him you do it- he's not nearly as good as he played last year, IMO. Dumping him to lose the salary seems like a decent idea, because if push comes to shove you'll have to release Graffanino or Cora, likely (if no one gets hurt)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I think you need both at this point. Graffanino can, as he proved last year, play second and probably third with a minimal offensive and defensive dropoff from Loretta and/or Lowell. He's not a good option as an everyday SS, however. Cora needs to stay to play SS if they need him. Willie Harris and Cora are too limited offensively to provide more than stop-gap coverage at the corner IF positions. You have Youks at third, but if you have to use him full-time at 3B, you have to play Snow full-time at first, etc, etc. Then of course you have to carry five OFs too. So given good health, I think the Sox may have to start the season with 15 position players. Graffanino isn't redundant because he's a significantly better offensive player than any of the other reserve infielders.


I think that if Pedroia and/or Machado have really good springs, it may allow the team to trade Cora instead of Graffanino, which would be ideal. If Loretta, Gonzalez and Lowell all have good springs, I guess trading Graf would be okay, but I think the team is going to hedge its bets on the infield with any moves unlikely until the very end of March.

#30 SoxFanPJ


  • call me Chester


  • 3854 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 01:47 PM

4. Calling Boomer
Towers continues to say that it's doubtful the Padres will trade for left-handed starter David Wells, though San Diego is the destination Wells had in mind when he asked Boston to deal him to a West Coast team. If Wells shows he has recovered from minor knee surgery, the Padres and Red Sox will see what they can work out.


http://www.signonsan...s16fivecam.html

I still don't see a match, but for future reference.

Most of the Padres salaries:

Chan Ho Park $16M
Klesko $10M, $0.5M buyout
Giles $9M, $9M, $9M, $9M/$3M buyout
Cameron $6M, $7M/$0.5M buyout
Hoffman $5M, $6.5M, $7.5M/$2M buyout
Woody Williams $4M
Roberts $2.25M
Castilla $3.2M
Peavy $2.5M, $4.75M, $6M, $8M option
Piazza $1.25M, $8M option/$0.75M buyout
Mirabelli $1.4M
Linebrink $1.365M, $1.75M option.
Estes $1M
Brocail $1M
Bellhorn $0.8M
E. Young $0.7M
Blum $0.65M
D. Ross $0.5M
C. Young $0.55M, $0.55M, 2008 option
Brazelton $0.5M + $0.5M incentives
Sikorski $0.5M

Source: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/

Edited by SoxFanPJ, 16 February 2006 - 02:13 PM.


#31 BoSoxLady


  • Rules Red Sox Nation with an Iron Fist


  • 2861 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 02:28 PM

The things I do for you clowns.... As promised, here's a pic of "The Truck" arriving at the Minor League Complex today. For you n00b's, that's where the Red Sox train until the exhibition games begin.
Posted Image

Are you excited? This is just an appetizer. More pics to follow.

#32 Doza



  • 1135 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 02:54 PM

You're probably right. I had had a few and forgot the intransigence of the TB FO. That coupled with their absurd demands for Lugo and/or Gathright earlier this offseason means there is no way they would do that deal. Its too bad tho, we have too many IFs they have too many OFs, its a shame we can't make a deal that doesn't involve either team giving up something major.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TB has a serious issue of overrating their players to the point that only a sucker would fall for it (see. Zambrano for Kazmir trade).

I am not all that enamored with TB's overrated outfield anyway. Who know's if Baldelli can recover from his injury, Crawford is EXTREMELY overrated as a leadoff man. Gathright has yet to live up to anything. As far as SS, Lugo is a good player, but TB is asking prospects as if the guy is Jeter. Sorry not going to happen.

#33 SoxFanPJ


  • call me Chester


  • 3854 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 09:57 PM

Nice to see Josh has his priorities straight, gotta find a golfing partner :lol:

"I'm excited about it," the 2003 World Series MVP said Thursday after throwing a bullpen session in Fort Myers, Fla. "It's cool coming in and meeting new people. You've got to find new people to eat with, you've got to find new people to play golf with, everything. It's going to be a good time."

"It's kind of cool," Beckett said. "I got my whole left side of the infield."


http://sports.yahoo....ov=ap&type=lgns

#34 ragecage

  • 3987 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 07:39 AM

It's good to see that Beckett is playing it smart and "easing" into Spring Training, warm-ups, etc. No surprise that Tito is keeping a close eye. Beckett's comment makes it sound like that may not have always been the case.

from The Globe:

''I think things are a little different over here," Beckett said. ''They want us to ease into it."
Problem is, Beckett doesn't ease into much, and Francona has made it a point of reminding Beckett, ''The last thing I want you to do is throw 98 [miles per hour] the first day. I want you to throw 95 in August.
''I'll remind him another 10 times," Francona said. ''It's human nature to want to. I know he's pitched in big games, so he's not nervous. But, he's also human, he's new here, and he's trying to show everybody what he can do. I told him, 'Don't do anything stupid. Just get ready for the season.' "



#35 AusTexSoxFan

  • 1994 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 07:59 AM

I keep thinking that Beckett is 29 or 30 when he's actually much younger (25?). He's a young prideful and arrogant Texan (like myself!) and Lord knows he wants to show the vets like Schill that he's the real deal..... Glad that Tito is keeping him under wraps.

I can't express how glad I am that none of our starting pitchers are in the WBC. Keep 'em focused on our team. You juts know one of those guys in the WBC is gonna blow out an elbow or shoulder.

#36 bsj


  • Renegade Crazed Genius


  • 15329 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 10:07 AM

http://www.signonsan...s16fivecam.html

I still don't see a match, but for future reference.

Most of the Padres salaries:

Chan Ho Park $16M
Klesko $10M, $0.5M buyout
Giles $9M, $9M, $9M, $9M/$3M buyout
Cameron $6M, $7M/$0.5M buyout
Hoffman $5M, $6.5M, $7.5M/$2M buyout
Woody Williams $4M
Roberts $2.25M
Castilla $3.2M
Peavy $2.5M, $4.75M, $6M, $8M option
Piazza $1.25M, $8M option/$0.75M buyout
Mirabelli $1.4M
Linebrink $1.365M, $1.75M option.
Estes $1M
Brocail $1M
Bellhorn $0.8M
E. Young $0.7M
Blum $0.65M
D. Ross $0.5M
C. Young $0.55M, $0.55M, 2008 option
Brazelton $0.5M + $0.5M incentives
Sikorski $0.5M

Source: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



The only way I could see a match, and this isnt happening, would be to get downright elaborate and do something like wellsie, Nixon, and Graffanino for Klesko and a good starter that may be making too much $$$. No real fit there unless the Pads don't want to pay peavy in 2007-2009, but those slaries really arent that outrageous though, so thhat isnt happening. Clearly want no part of Park or Williams....

On second thought maybe there really isnt a match. ;)

Edited by bsj, 17 February 2006 - 10:08 AM.


#37 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 17 February 2006 - 10:22 AM

Schill's in the house
By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff

A day before Red Sox pitchers and catchers are required to report to Fort Myers, we've spotted Curt Schilling, Mike Timlin, and Tim Wakefield at the Sox' complex here in Fort Myers.

Schilling and Timlin were seen playing toss, though not with each other.

Previous Red Sox arrivals include Jonathan Papelbon, Josh Beckett, Keith Foulke, David Riske, and Josh Bard. We'll have more later ...



#38 BCsMightyJoeYoung

  • 2352 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 01:00 PM

The only way I could see a match, and this isnt happening, would be to get downright elaborate and do something like wellsie, Nixon, and Graffanino for Klesko and a good starter that may be making too much $$$. No real fit there unless the Pads don't want to pay peavy in 2007-2009, but those slaries really arent that outrageous though, so thhat isnt happening. Clearly want no part of Park or Williams....

On second thought maybe there really isnt a match.


The only way I can see them moving either Wells or Clement this spring is to heavily subsidize the contract and ask for very good prospects in return. They probably couldn't get top 2 prospect .. at least not for Wells .. but a midrange guy is highly possible.

Here's S.D.s top 10 ..
1. Josh Barfield, 2b
2. Freddy Guzman, of
3. George Kottaras, c
4. Travis Chick, rhp
5. Tim Stauffer, rhp
6. Matt Bush, ss
7. Justin Germano, rhp
8. Sean Thompson, lhp
9. Brad Baker, rhp
10. Paul McAnulty, of/1b

Of this bunch George Kottaras looks interesting .. sort of a poor man's Kelly Shoppach
http://www.thebaseba...-kottaras.shtml

and the prodigal son Brad Baker ..
http://www.thebaseba...rad-baker.shtml

He was tateriffic at Portland (PCL) last year but strikes out a ton of guys.

and L.A.s
1. Joel Guzman, ss
2. Chad Billingsley, rhp
3. Edwin Jackson, rhp (since departed)
4. James Loney, 1b
5. Andy LaRoche, 3b
6. Russell Martin, c
7. Greg Miller, lhp
8. Blake DeWitt, 3b
9. Jonathan Broxton, rhp
10. Chuck Tiffany, lhp

Of this lot, Andy LaRoche seems the most intriguing ..
http://www.thebaseba...y-laroche.shtml

and Chad Billingsley .. who is probably out of reach
http://www.thebaseba...llingsley.shtml

#39 Doza



  • 1135 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 04:50 PM

Of this bunch George Kottaras looks interesting .. sort of a poor man's Kelly Shoppach
http://www.thebaseba...-kottaras.shtml

Except that he's 4 years younger and already had better numbers then Kelly ever did at his age. Not exactly a poor mans anything. BA has him rated as the #2 prospect in the org. Excellent eye, and projects to 15-20 HR. He needs to work on his D.

#40 xjack


  • Futbol Crazed


  • 5149 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 06:29 PM

If Graffanino is on the Opening Day roster, I can only hope it will be because Tito tried him out in RF and he showed himself to be a competent outfielder. Graffanino's bat is much better than any Mohr's.

Speaking of potential Nixon platoon partners, when checking out this Pressley guy, I noticed another non-roster invitee who hasn't been publicized: Tyler Minges.

He's 26, bats righthanded and put up some excellent numbers in AA last year: .324/.392/.564 over 429 at bats with a solid 47/61 walk/strikeout ratio..... http://thebaseballcu...er-minges.shtml

Minges was in the Cardinals orginization last year. Here's what one of the STL blogs had to say about his defense: "I have also been touting his accomplishments all season wondering why he has been passed over. I believe since he is a little old for AA he is going to have to prove himself a bit longer. Maybe the organization is not convinced he is a legitimate hitter. He does a good job defensively - very strong arm." http://www.stlouissp...php/t21286.html

I've never heard of this guy, but if they trade Graffanino, I hope the team gives him a shot to beat out Mohr.

Edited by xjack, 17 February 2006 - 06:34 PM.


#41 allaboutthesox

  • 2558 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 07:53 PM

I don't think Pedroia has a snowball's chance in hell of opening as the starting SS.  The Sox will want him to have some sustained success in AAA before they hand him a major league job.

The one tiny outside shot Pedroia has is that Gonzalez contract is not guaranteed if the Sox cut him before Opening Day.  So maybe if he holds up a bank in Fort Myers, or something, they willd ecide to cut bait on him, opeing the door for Pedroia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Agreed, I am not knocking anyone or their optimism for Pedroia, but what is exactly the rush? Why not have him show sustained success in AAA for a bit before like Ed said "they hand over the major league job."

I think it is a good chance for Pedroia to showcase his talents a bit, but to think he will get the job seems a little unrealistic at this point for me.

I would like to see more focus personally on how Papelbon does this ST. But that is just me I suppose.

EDIT: Spelling

Edited by allaboutthesox, 17 February 2006 - 07:55 PM.


#42 allaboutthesox

  • 2558 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 07:57 PM

They'd want Lester and Stern for Lugo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


And for that I would tell them " stop smoking whatever it is you are smoking."


I am not all that enamored with TB's overrated outfield anyway. Who know's if Baldelli can recover from his injury, Crawford is EXTREMELY overrated as a leadoff man. Gathright has yet to live up to anything.


Hmm interesting statement here. 2005 Season Stats here:

Player A

.301/.331/.469 15 HR 81 RBI 46 SB

Player B

.316/.366/.439 10 HR 75 RBI 18 SB


Quite similar in some respects. Take a look at their respective career numbers and you will see more similarities as far as their baseline numbers as well. Wanna guess who each player is? Player A is Carl Crawford and Player B is Johnny Damon. So if Carl Crawford is part of that "overrated outfield" then that doesnt say too much about Johnny Damon using your statements.

Remember this as well, Crawford only played in his third full season last year and his numbers were better than Damon's in his third full year. So in my opinion, I dont think the Sox could go wrong with the "overrated" Carl Crawford.

Joey Gathright, in respects to him....it is hard to prove anything when you only have 255 Career AB's. So how can you live up to anything if not given the opportunity to play. I have seen him play, and he has lots of potential but needs more time and the right enviornment to blossom IMHO.

Not trying to jump all over you here, but be careful of the words you choose on these forums.

Edited by allaboutthesox, 17 February 2006 - 08:26 PM.


#43 SoxFanPJ


  • call me Chester


  • 3854 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 12:49 AM

Hansen has reportedly added a changeup, to his Fastball and Slider.

Apparently Wallace showed him the grip in 2004 when the Cape Cod leaguers where up at Fenway.

  “I’ve been throwing it in a couple of bullpens down here and it feels great,” Hansen said. “It’s got a lot of movement. I’m pretty happy with it right now.”
    For now, he estimates that the changeup’s velocity is in the low- to mid-80s, which would provide an impressive differential of 10-12 mph from his fastball.


http://redsox.boston...&format=&page=1

#44 Doza



  • 1135 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 08:05 AM

And for that I would tell them " stop smoking whatever it is you are smoking."
Hmm interesting statement here.  2005 Season Stats here:

Player A

.301/.331/.469  15 HR 81 RBI 46 SB

Player B

.316/.366/.439  10 HR 75 RBI 18 SB
Quite similar in some respects. Take a look at their respective career numbers and you will see more similarities as far as their baseline numbers as well.  Wanna guess who each player is?  Player A is Carl Crawford and Player B is Johnny Damon.  So if Carl Crawford is part of that "overrated outfield" then that doesnt say too much about Johnny Damon using your statements.

Remember this as well, Crawford only played in his third full season last year and his numbers were better than Damon's in his third full year.  So in my opinion, I dont think the Sox could go wrong with the "overrated" Carl Crawford. 

Joey Gathright, in respects to him....it is hard to prove anything when you only have 255 Career AB's.  So how can you live up to anything if not given the opportunity to play.  I have seen him play, and he has lots of potential but needs more time and the right enviornment to blossom IMHO. 

Not trying to jump all over you here, but be careful of the words you choose on these forums.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


First off, let me be clear in saying that I never thought Damon had a great year last year. .366 OBP is decent as a leadoff, but not great. Crawford on the other hand also leads off and has an OBP .035 points less, which is very significant. Which is about the different between decent, and below average. Wouldn't you agree that the single most important base stat for leadoff is OBP?

Crawford has had a long history of being a slap happy speedy hitter with no OBP capability whatsoever. His best OBP year came in the rookie leagues, and that was due to a very high batting average. If he were playing for the Sox he'd be batting 9th. Granted he is young and has a chance to improve, but I just don't see him ever turning into a patient hitter. History seems to support me on this.

Damon had a pretty good walk rate during his career, and was posting a greater OBP then Crawford at his age, despite hitting nearly .030 points worse. As you can see from Damon 4th full year, his OBP skyrocketed when he learned to hit .300. When you have a good OBP base because of walks - IMHO - this is better than having a high average and no walks at all. A good eye generally never goes away during a players career, but batting average can fluctuate greatly.

Gathright on the other hand has showed a bit better OBP in the minors. It stands to note that most of this is due to his extremely high batting averages. I am curious to see if this will translate to MLB. So far it hasn't. The biggest knock on Gathright is his long swing, lack of walks, perhaps an inability to get around on ML fastballs, and the fact that he has no power whatsoever. He'd be an old school leadoff hitter. Slap the ball, draw no walks, use speed. Where is the OBP going to come from? He's not going to hit .360 each year.

In closing, I just don't go for the media tripe with regards to the "great young Tampa Bay hitters". Show me something other than injuries, and low OBPs.

but be careful of the words you choose on these forums.

I used the exact wording I wanted to use.

Edited by Doza, 18 February 2006 - 08:06 AM.


#45 RoDaddy

  • 1190 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 08:19 AM

Hansen has reportedly added a changeup, to his Fastball and Slider. Apparently Wallace showed him the grip in 2004 when the Cape Cod leaguers where up at Fenway.

If the changeup is half-decent, Hansen has a chance of being near unhittable someday. His slider is supposed to be his best pitch (I believe it was voted best pitch in AA this year, or something to that effect), already pretty impressive for someone who throws 95.

#46 Gambler7

  • 3051 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 08:51 AM

Coco is pretty entertaining...

He can be asked a tough question and answer it with humor and honesty. He was told that his stolen-base ratio isn't stellar, somewhere in the 50/50 range.
''I think I'm better than 50/50," he said, and he was correct, as he's swiped 54 of 83, a 65 percent success rate. ''I'm closer to 70/30. That's like [comparing] Shaquille O'Neal's free throw shooting vs. Carmelo Anthony.

He'll also curry favor for being among the small minority of major league players who don't wear batting gloves.
''I can't feel with the gloves," he said. ''If that were the case, I believe God would make you with gloves."

But that's for a later conversation. Yesterday, Crisp was simply attempting to figure out who is who.
''I'm going to go home and look on the Internet," he said. ''Look at the Boston Red Sox website and look at everybody's faces and come back and know everybody."

'To be honest," Crisp said, ''I don't even know Johnny Damon. I hear he was a good person, the whole rock thing. He was a good ballplayer. Myself, I'm a good person. I don't rock out. At the same time, I like to have fun, too. Clown around with the fans. Just be myself."

http://www.boston.co...ny_come_lately/

“If I’m watching a football game, and I have my fantasy football thing going, and I’m watching my player and he does well, I’m excited for him,” Crisp said yesterday after his first session with the Boston media. “But if he does bad, I’m angry at him for the whole time because he probably cost me one of the games.”
The meaning of all this?
    “If you do well, everything’s going to be easier for you,” he said. “If you do bad, people are going to show you. And the media’s going to be in your face, asking you questions. Me, I was at home, doing the same thing. I just wasn’t in the guy’s face.”

My father’s in the league too, and his team is called The Comeback Kids,” Crisp said. “That’s because last year, he fell off. And I was the Wolfpack. This year, I changed my team’s name to the Kid Killers, just because his team’s name is the Comeback Kids. I was just trying to make a statement that I was just going to beat him. If I just say the name is Kid Killers and don’t explain it, people will get the wrong idea. That’s why I say it’s a little demonic.”

“I had (wide receiver) Deion Branch at the beginning,” Crisp said, “but I ended up trading him. But I’m not the greatest general manager. And I ended up losing. I had an All-Star team. Can’t miss. Can’t lose. And I lose in the first round of the playoffs.”

http://redsox.boston...rticleid=126802

#47 allaboutthesox

  • 2558 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 03:35 PM

First off, let me be clear in saying that I never thought Damon had a great year last year.  .366 OBP is decent as a leadoff, but not great.  Crawford on the other hand also leads off and has an OBP .035 points less, which is very significant.  Which is about the different between decent, and below average.  Wouldn't you agree that the single most important base stat for leadoff is OBP?

Crawford has had a long history of being a slap happy speedy hitter with no OBP capability whatsoever.  His best OBP year came in the rookie leagues, and that was due to a very high batting average.  If he were playing for the Sox he'd be batting 9th.  Granted he is young and has a chance to improve, but I just don't see him ever turning into a patient hitter.  History seems to support me on this.

Damon had a pretty good walk rate during his career, and was posting a greater OBP then Crawford at his age, despite hitting nearly .030 points worse.  As you can see from Damon 4th full year, his OBP skyrocketed when he learned to hit .300.  When you have a good OBP base because of walks - IMHO - this is better than having a high average and no walks at all.  A good eye generally never goes away during a players career, but batting average can fluctuate greatly.

Gathright on the other hand has showed a bit better OBP in the minors.  It stands to note that most of this is due to his extremely high batting averages.  I am curious to see if this will translate to MLB.  So far it hasn't.  The biggest knock on Gathright is his long swing, lack of walks, perhaps an inability to get around on ML fastballs, and the fact that he has no power whatsoever.  He'd be an old school leadoff hitter.  Slap the ball, draw no walks, use speed.  Where is the OBP going to come from?  He's not going to hit .360 each year.

In closing, I just don't go for the media tripe with regards to the "great young Tampa Bay hitters".  Show me something other than injuries, and low OBPs.

I used the exact wording I wanted to use.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


So you are saying that a long history makes 3 ML seasons? I think you got a little too defensive in your response to my post, but oh well. I guess the point I am trying to make is that to call someone overrated at this point in their career when they compare somewhat to someone you hold in high regard may not be the best thing. How does baseball history back up that Crawford may not become more patient at the plate? Can you site me some examples? I just dont see how you can snap back so defensively when the point I was trying to make is fair.

By the way I did not buy into the media "tripe". Not at one time did you see me say Tampa Bay had "great, good" or any other word to describe their outfield.

I used the exact wording I wanted to use.


So I guess what you say must be the gospel?

Edited by allaboutthesox, 18 February 2006 - 03:37 PM.


#48 behindthepen


  • SoSH Member


  • 5888 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 05:45 PM

From the jersey number trivia angle ... according the roster section of redsox.com ...
Wells is still #16, and Loretta is #3
Sea Bass #11
Tavarez takes #51, Riske #54, Seanez #37
Nothing listed for Coco yet (was 10 in Cleveland, which Graf is currently sporting).

#49 amh03


  • Tippi Hedren


  • 4261 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 06:36 PM

Schilling speaks:

Healthy Schilling Rebuts Off Season Criticism

The Red Sox have seven potential solid starters in camp and two possible aces — Schilling and newcomer Josh Beckett.

“I really believe that in our division, the team whose rotation and pitching staff stays off the disabled list is going to be the team that’s on top at the end of the year,” Schilling said.

He seems to be off to a promising start.

“Schill’s never going to be a male model (but) he looks terrific,” manager Terry Francona said of his full-bodied starter. “I think he’s too good to allow what happened last year to happen again.”

He was 21-6 with a 3.26 ERA in 2004, his first year with Boston, then starred in the postseason.

“I’m ready to be good again,” Schilling said.


He also takes on the GQ article of Top hated athletes.

#50 SoxFanPJ


  • call me Chester


  • 3854 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 08:09 PM

Former Sox Prospect Josh Hancock was released by the Reds for reporting to ST 17LBS overweight.

Hancock made 11 relief appearances in September, going 1-0 with a 1.93 ERA - an encouraging showing. Narron hopes that Hancock's release on Saturday makes him realize what he has to do to pitch in the majors.

"I really believe you earn things in this game," Narron said. "When you're on the disabled list 133 games, you haven't earned the right to come in 17 pounds overweight."


http://msn.foxsports...b/story/5342918


I wonder if the Sox would be interested in signing him to a minor league deal.

Edited by SoxFanPJ, 18 February 2006 - 08:13 PM.