22 replies to this topic

[DJnVa]

http://www.foxnews.c...3,410162,00.htm

A Connecticut youth baseball team with a phenomenal 9-year-old pitcher has been disqualified because its team is too good.l

What do you think? Should the kid be forced to sit out because he's too good?

Any of you deal with anything like this?

Edited by DJnVa, 25 August 2008 - 04:16 PM.

[RingoOSU]

Your link was too good, so it was removed.

[Over Guapo Grande]

Backup Link, maybe not as good, but still pretty good

[Rocco Graziosa]

I'm trying to read between the lines here, and I'm having a hard time figuring out whats going on. There seems to be a pseudo political angle here with someone's work, an issue with the team being too good, and possibly a kid playing in an inappropriate league for his skill level. And I get the feeling the mother is deranged lunatic. It appears there are no heroes in this story, and this kid is caught in the middle.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 25 August 2008 - 04:58 PM.

[Fred not Lynn]

I'm trying to read between the lines here, and I'm having a hard time figuring out whats going on. There seems to be a pseudo political angle here with someone's work, an issue with the team being too good, and possibly a kid playing in an inappropriate league for his skill level. And I get the feeling the mother is deranged lunatic. It appears there are no heroes in this story, and this kid is caught in the middle.

I agree, something is out of whack here - probably along the lines of someone trying to shoehorn the kid into a league that isn't appropriate for his skill level. 40 Mph isn't particularly hard throwing for a 9 year old in peer-pitch. The obvious question is; Is there another age appropriate league he can play in that is more suited for his ability level? This league he's in sounds like a half-step beyond coach/parent/machine pitch.

Edited by Fred not Lynn, 26 August 2008 - 05:58 PM.

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Not the same thing, but Kent Hrbek's nephew pitches for the town next to us in our U10 league. The kid is absolutely huge, and far and away throws harder than anyone I've ever seen at this level. At least his coach has a standard pre-game apology that he gives to the opposing coach, but points out that it wouldn't be fair to ask the boy to tone it down.

FWIW, my son got on base against him in the playoffs, and has the welt on his ribcage to prove it (you could hear the plunk on the next field over).......

[RedOctober3829]

This story is complete horsecrap. Too good? It's sure as hell they wouldn't tell a kid to sit because he was too bad to play. That might hurt his feelings which is all youth sports is about these days. God forbid we give the best players a chance to hone their skills and tell the other kids to go build an Erector set. Maybe the other parents need to grow a sack and let their kids face real pitching. Either move the kid up to the next level or let him continue to play. The pussification of our society continues. The youth soccer mentality is taking over the rest of society.

[pdaj]

Sign e'm up, Theo!

Edited by pdaj, 25 August 2008 - 10:45 PM.

[Fred not Lynn]

Sign e'm up, Theo!

He's not actually all that good. I'm sure he's getting a big ego boost from the "too good to play" headlines, but from what I can gather he may be slightly above average for his age, but he's not some freakish Usain Boltly phenom - the problem is that for some reason his mother wants him in a developmental league when he's ready for a competitive league.

God forbid we give the best players a chance to hone their skills and tell the other kids to go build an Erector set. Maybe the other parents need to grow a sack and let their kids face real pitching. Either move the kid up to the next level or let him continue to play.

What I think I'm reading here is that he refuses to go UP to the next level...It is HIS family that won't grow the sack and move their kid to the level appropriate for him to play at. They dig him being the big fish in the small pond, they're the one's getting off on the "Too Good" to play headlines. In fact, I bet that HIS mother is the one who sent out the press releases that put this thing in the media at all.

Edited by Fred not Lynn, 25 August 2008 - 11:15 PM.

[Fred not Lynn]

This story intrigues me - not on its merits, but on the grounds of how it is even news, so I looked into it further.

This story has more info New Haven Rgister

In particular, this one part was buried - yet it's a pretty key piece of information;

She said league officials came to their house about five months ago to recruit Jericho, who also plays in another league.

The kid already plays in another league, one where they don't seem to be too worked up about his ability level, one where he apparently belongs. Except for the somewhat intriguing bit where he was "recruited" by this league (or that's the story the mom is telling anyway), there's NOTHING to see here. Kid's media-whore mom wants him to sandbag it in a league he's outgrown and the league won't let him. Good for them...Now go play in your other league kid and get off my sports pages.

Edited by Fred not Lynn, 25 August 2008 - 11:44 PM.

[RetractableRoof]

This story intrigues me - not on its merits, but on the grounds of how it is even news, so I looked into it further.

This story has more info New Haven Rgister

In particular, this one part was buried - yet it's a pretty key piece of information;
The kid already plays in another league, one where they don't seem to be too worked up about his ability level, one where he apparently belongs. Except for the somewhat intriguing bit where he was "recruited" by this league (or that's the story the mom is telling anyway), there's NOTHING to see here. Kid's media-whore mom wants him to sandbag it in a league he's outgrown and the league won't let him. Good for them...Now go play in your other league kid and get off my sports pages.

My only issue with part of this is that he was 'recruited' by a team with some connection to league officers... one would have to assume if he were on *that* team, he'd not have encountered this issue...

[Fred not Lynn]

My only issue with part of this is that he was 'recruited' by a team with some connection to league officers... one would have to assume if he were on *that* team, he'd not have encountered this issue...

That's the only thing that seems a little off, BUT, the we're only hearing that he was "recruited" from his mother - so I'm taking it with a grain of salt. Sports leagues always go out and try to get more kids to join - not based on talent, but based on numbers. They probably just wanted another kid, and mom here intreprets it as some high-level "recruitment" of her preciously talnted son.

[behindthepen]

First off, 40mph for a 9 year old is not "too good". My son played 9 y.o baseball this season, and they hit 37mph in the batting cage. The best player in our league probably threw harder than that, and a few kids could still hit him.

Second, no 9 y.o. should be "forced" to play in another league for any reason. He's 9, his main focus in sports should be having fun with his friends, not preparing for a Major League career, not to mention the money it might cost to play in an higher level league.

I'd be curious as to how many innings these kids are playing and how many he was pitching. Assuming they're playing real games, there should be some sort of pitching limit and he wouldn't be able to pitch every inning of every game anyways.

It's a great message they're sending to disband a team because one of their players is great. I know it sucks to lose as a coach/parent but get over it.

[Comfortably Lomb]

How hard do kids throw at ages 8-10 normally? Not the ridiculous early growth spurt kids but let's say an average run of the mill 9 year old pitcher. 40 mph doesn't strike me as all that fast, even for little kids. Certainly not unsafe fast or anything like that. Also, count me in the "there's more going on here than has been reported" camp.

Edited by Comfortably Lomb, 26 August 2008 - 10:19 AM.

[RetractableRoof]

How hard do kids throw at ages 8-10 normally? Not the ridiculous early growth spurt kids but let's say an average run of the mill 9 year old pitcher. 40 mph doesn't strike me as all that fast, even for little kids. Certainly not unsafe fast or anything like that. Also, count me in the "there's more going on here than has been reported" camp.

My 8 year old son was playing around at the Museum of Science Baseball exhibit and was throwing 36... and I don't have any illusions that he had A) control or B) anything beyond normal/average skills for his age. On the other hand, who knows how or if that radar gun was calibrated. For whatever little that is worth.

[BigMike]

How hard do kids throw at ages 8-10 normally? Not the ridiculous early growth spurt kids but let's say an average run of the mill 9 year old pitcher. 40 mph doesn't strike me as all that fast, even for little kids. Certainly not unsafe fast or anything like that. Also, count me in the "there's more going on here than has been reported" camp.

Something is missing in the story, because 40MPH is not that fast at all. it would still have a somewhat decent hump in it even.

I've seen kids in our minor league who throw upwards of the 50+ MPH range, now that is approaching overpowering at that point. In a 12 year old league for examply, the kids are almost all throwing up around 60, and the good ones are in the high 60s or more.

[FungosWithJimy]

Today's latest. Looks like we've got some upcoming legal action:

http://www.nhregiste...e...35049&rfi=6


edit: I live in this area and it is getting tons of press, both on the front page of the local paper and leading off the local news.

Edited by FungosWithJimy, 26 August 2008 - 02:34 PM.

[Rocco Graziosa]

Today's latest. Looks like we've got some upcoming legal action:

http://www.nhregiste...e...35049&rfi=6
edit: I live in this area and it is getting tons of press, both on the front page of the local paper and leading off the local news.

So you must be able to read between the lines here. Whats really going on? I had the mother pegged as a deranged loon and the league involved in petty politics. Am I off base?

[FungosWithJimy]

So you must be able to read between the lines here. Whats really going on? I had the mother pegged as a deranged loon and the league involved in petty politics. Am I off base?

You are on the money. Today's articles offer more details than we've had before.


This one is the straight front page story about a press conference the league had yesterday:

http://www.nhregiste...e...35049&rfi=6


But this was the column I liked most. I normally dislike Dave Solomon immensely, but he has hit the bullseye here:

http://www.nhregiste...e...35050&rfi=6

The things you learn from Solomon's piece are:

A) The type of league we are talking about
B) The circumstances surrounding the kid's particpation in the league
C) More details about the kid's parents and the way the league does business.

All in all, as Rocco said, just league politics, overzealous parenting, lazy agenda-driven media coverage, and a kid getting caught in the middle. Another day in America.

Edited by FungosWithJimy, 27 August 2008 - 10:25 AM.

[Comfortably Lomb]

Well in the McLaughlin article the parents say his pitches haven't been clocked. So have they or haven't they? But the velocity doesn't really seem to be the issue because in the Solmon article it's said that other kids in the league throw about as hard, just with less control. What sounds really odd is that apparently Jericho and some other kid were basically brought in as mid-season ringers for their team. Just, weird.

The vibe that I'm getting from this league is that they're calling it a developmental league but that it's really just a league for inner-city kids who aren't all that talented but like to play the game. So I wouldn't be shocked if this Jericho kid is a little bit out of place. How you handle that? I don't know, but I thought this was interesting:

Noble said Tuesday that Jericho’s mom has made threats, and Tuesday passed out a sheet with some of those alleged comments in big bold letters, including, “When I’m finished with my lawyer, this will be the last year of the league.” Nicole Scott couldn’t be reached Tuesday night.

So if I'm right about my take on what this league is then the mother here would be happiest if none of these kids could play baseball. It doesn't sound like they'd be good enough to fit into a real little league of some sort, so if this one were crushed they'd just be out of luck. The deranged loon of a mother guess by Rocco is probably dead on accurate.

Edited by Comfortably Lomb, 27 August 2008 - 12:47 PM.

[Fred not Lynn]

What sounds really odd is that apparently Jericho and some other kid were basically brought in as mid-season ringers for their team. Just, weird. The deranged loon of a mother guess by Rocco is probably dead on accurate.

Come to think of it, my kid gets told by Little League all the time that he can't pitch, "Kid, you can't pitch today, you threw too many yesterday". How come I'm not on Leno?

[FungosWithJimy]

Well in the McLaughlin article the parents say his pitches haven't been clocked. So have they or haven't they? But the velocity doesn't really seem to be the issue because in the Solmon article it's said that other kids in the league throw about as hard, just with less control. What sounds really odd is that apparently Jericho and some other kid were basically brought in as mid-season ringers for their team. Just, weird.

The vibe that I'm getting from this league is that they're calling it a developmental league but that it's really just a league for inner-city kids who aren't all that talented but like to play the game. So I wouldn't be shocked if this Jericho kid is a little bit out of place. How you handle that?

So if I'm right about my take on what this league is then the mother here would be happiest if none of these kids could play baseball. It doesn't sound like they'd be good enough to fit into a real little league of some sort, so if this one were crushed they'd just be out of luck. The deranged loon of a mother guess by Rocco is probably dead on accurate.

As far as I know, no one has officially said that his pitches have been clocked. That 40mph number seems like it could have been an estimate of sorts, but I'm not sure anyone knows who came up with it. In one of the above articles, I think I even saw 60mph thrown out there in an example.

To me, it sounds like this whole thing happened because the team was 6-0 and becoming the new league powerhouse when they suddenly brought on two additional All-Stars/ringers, one of whom was Jericho, who pitched multiple games in a row and dominated at such a level that people got upset. As far as the league was concerned, this was unacceptable, not only because it was unfair competition-wise, but also because the team that stood to suffer the most was the perennial league champion and political/personal favorite of a top league official(s) (a team that had also apparently tried to nab Jericho for their own squad at one point). So the league, without all that much justification on its side other than its own final authority (and probably without really thinking it through), decided to just tell Jericho that he could no longer pitch. They also opted to do this IN THE MIDDLE OF A GAME. They probably figured that some parents and coaches would complain, but that, since it was a small unaffiliated league and Jericho could still opt to play another position and/or continue to pitch for his All Star team, the whole thing would blow over quickly. But they underestimated Jericho's parents and coaches (who are themselves probably politically aligned with some competing adversaries of the league officials). Someone called the media and the wildfire began. Meanwhile, Jericho and his teammates were left with guilt complexes and, for most of them, no baseball to play while their parents and coaches duked it out over what is essentially an urban sandlot league for 8-10 year-olds. Idiots.

[Fred not Lynn]

Nothing new in the NH paper today. 15 Minutes must be up...