478 replies to this topic

[Drocca]

Better late than never, I guess.

That's what she said.

[DukeSox]

Are you f'ing kidding me? Hansbrough hits a shot to break the UNC scoring mark, and they STOP THE GAME AND HAVE A CEREMONY????? IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIRST HALF????

what an absolute joke. i thought for a second they were going to retire his jersey and raise it to the rafters on the spot. why not, they had already stopped the game and HAD A CEREMONY. WHILE THE GAME WAS GOING ON.

it wasn't even a scheduled tv timeout break or anything. they STOPPED PLAYING, HAD A CEREMONY, AND THEN INBOUNDED.

i think hansbrough has been a stud at UNC, and would have loved it if he came to duke instead. but i'm sorry -- that was pretty pathetic.

when jj broke the duke record (or the acc record for that matter)....he hit a shot, THE GAME CONTINUED until a scheduled tv timeout, the teams went to the benches and met (like a normal timeout) and then they started playing again. they saved the ceremony for THE END OF THE GAME, you know -- when the game wasn't actually happening.

Edited by DukeSox, 18 December 2008 - 07:50 PM.

[UNCSoxFan5]

In fairness, I don't think Tyler wanted to stop the game at all.

[Drocca]

Carolina has always been awful at the ceremonial stuff. But, whatever. They also played like crap on both ends before he got the record --- you could see the nerves, but they also didn't play great against Oral Roberts so maybe something's brewin'.

Not to be a jerk but the most likely case is that their a little bored with teams like this.

It's the story no one is talking about yet: Who is going to beat us?

[DukeSox]

Carolina has always been awful at the ceremonial stuff. But, whatever. They also played like crap on both ends before he got the record --- you could see the nerves, but they also didn't play great against Oral Roberts so maybe something's brewin'.

Not to be a jerk but the most likely case is that their a little bored with teams like this.

It's the story no one is talking about yet: Who is going to beat us?

Well then they're going to be pretty darned bored with Valparaiso tomorrow as well.

Happening at the same time (2 PM) meanwhile, #6 Duke will be playing #7 Xavier in new york.

I think UNC will lose an away game in the ACC -- they'll be playing 8 of them, they have not played any ACC-caliber teams yet (mich st maybe), so they've looked really good. As always, ACC away games are tough.

[UNCSoxFan5]

Well then they're going to be pretty darned bored with Valparaiso tomorrow as well.

Happening at the same time (2 PM) meanwhile, #6 Duke will be playing #7 Xavier in new york.

I think UNC will lose an away game in the ACC -- they'll be playing 8 of them, they have not played any ACC-caliber teams yet (mich st maybe), so they've looked really good. As always, ACC away games are tough.

Couldn't agree more. Either at Wake, Miami or in Cameron, I could see us losing. Im looking forward to the Duke game tomorrow.

[someoneanywhere]

Carolina will lose at least two and probably three conference games. It's the ACC. Year to year, one conference or another may be deeper or stronger -- this year we are told it is the Big East -- but no conference, year in and year out, is the meat grinder that is ACC basketball.

And besides, wait till you get a gander at the NCAA tournament bracket. The powers that be will load the Carolina bracket. Bank on that.

In other news, either Duke cannot play any better than they are playing right at this moment -- even Zoubek looks like a real college basketball player this afternoon -- or Xavier is about 35 spots in rankings above where they should be. They look like a D-2 team.

Edited by someoneanywhere, 20 December 2008 - 03:04 PM.

[RedOctober3829]

Carolina will lose at least two and probably three conference games. It's the ACC. Year to year, one conference or another may be deeper or stronger -- this year we are told it is the Big East -- but no conference, year in and year out, is the meat grinder that is ACC basketball.

And besides, wait till you get a gander at the NCAA tournament bracket. The powers that be will load the Carolina bracket. Bank on that.

In other news, either Duke cannot play any better than they are playing right at this moment -- even Zoubek looks like a real college basketball player this afternoon -- or Xavier is about 35 spots in rankings above where they should be. They look like a D-2 team.

Xavier is overrated. They beat an overrated Memphis and rocketed into the top 10. Duke isn't this good and Xavier surely isn't this bad.

[DukeSox]

Dear A-10,
You suck.

Love,
Good Basketball

[someoneanywhere]

Didn't see the Carolina game last night, but looking over the box score I notice that Ellington again struggled from the field. They can hide this for a while if Green and Lawson can continue to give them 3-point threats, but I suspect those guys will go through some troughs before it's all over. And because Ellington also gives the something in the mid-range, he is doubly important. I don't mean to nitpick. I do think, though, that there will be a few games this year -- maybe the year's most important games -- where Ellington is going to have to be the 2007 Ellington. If not there could be some heartache.

[RedSoxTarheel38]

Didn't see the Carolina game last night, but looking over the box score I notice that Ellington again struggled from the field. They can hide this for a while if Green and Lawson can continue to give them 3-point threats, but I suspect those guys will go through some troughs before it's all over. And because Ellington also gives the something in the mid-range, he is doubly important. I don't mean to nitpick. I do think, though, that there will be a few games this year -- maybe the year's most important games -- where Ellington is going to have to be the 2007 Ellington. If not there could be some heartache.

Listening to the postgame show on the way home last night, Jones Angel said the same thing. This, compounded with the 3 point shooting woes of Bobby Frasor, could definitely cause some problems down the road. We can only hope they find their shot before Danny and Ty lose theirs.

[RedOctober3829]

Duke reported a minor violation today after Chris Collins went to a high school tournament during the dead period of recruiting(which we are in now).

[DukeSox]

Duke reported a minor violation today after Chris Collins went to a high school tournament during the dead period of recruiting(which we are in now).

He went with his Dad to watch some basketball games. Claims he didn't know it was a violation. Goes to show how ridiculously clean the Duke program is when this creates a headline -- these kind of minor violations are usually reported several times a year by any given school -- unless they choose not to self-report.

[UNCSoxFan5]

Another ho-hum win last night, as UNC improves to 13-0 by beating a scrappy Nevada squad in Reno. I felt the team played much better than they did against Rutgers. Sunday night begins ACC play as we host BC.

[Drocca]

The worst half of basketball we've played all year; BC is up 6 and deservedly so. Our offense has been fine, but our defense has been awful.

Last year Rice made us sweat and it looks like BC will do it again this year, barring a big run to open up the second half.

[UNCSoxFan5]

We are not rebounding at all. Roy better kick the team in the ass.

[Drocca]

It's the story no one is talking about yet: Who is going to beat us?

BC. The answer, Drocca, is BC.

[someoneanywhere]

We are not rebounding at all. Roy better kick the team in the ass.

This is one of the reasons why, upthread, I have Carolina losing a few conference games. The hardest thing for the zealots in the media to remember -- the same ones howling about undefeated seasons -- is that these guys are college guys. And college guys are inconsistent. You get inconsistent effort, inconsistent execution, inconsistent focus. Generally speaking those inconsistencies show up on the effort side of the equation: defense and rebounding.

I happen to think it's a very good thing to lose this one especially -- the first one out of the gate, when everyone is telling you that you are the greatest college team of the last 20 years, to a team everyone expected you to blast into yesterday. We can put that to bed now, and Roy can just ride them mercilessly about believing their own press.

What we will see over the next two months is whether they accept losing. I have not been convinced with this group, minus Hansbrough, that losing really, deeply bothers them.

[UNCSoxFan5]

Sunday at Wake is going to be a very interesting game.

[DukeSox]

Ho hum, another dominant performance by Duke, beating Davidson by 12, after being up by 26 (to Davidson's credit, they did get it back under 10 for a few minutes). Scheyer and Singler both had 22.

Edited by DukeSox, 07 January 2009 - 10:07 PM.

[UNCSoxFan5]

Bump for UNC @ Wake tomorrow. #3 vs #4. Go Heels.

[RedOctober3829]

Bump for UNC @ Wake tomorrow. #3 vs #4. Go Heels.

UNC wins big tomorrow. Wake might be #4 but their RPI is in the 30s and haven't had a true test outside of BYU.

[UNCSoxFan5]

UNC wins big tomorrow. Wake might be #4 but their RPI is in the 30s and haven't had a true test outside of BYU.

Not if we don't play any better than we did against BC.

[manny25]

UNC wins big tomorrow. Wake might be #4 but their RPI is in the 30s and haven't had a true test outside of BYU.

Pretty good game going on now... Hansbrough's been quiet, WF is doing a great job defending him.

[JulE6]

Pretty good game going on now... Hansbrough's been quiet, WF is doing a great job defending him.

My boy Chas McFarland...Worcester Academy WOOT

[RedOctober3829]

Quite a surprise to me...thought the loss to UNC would spark them to a big win on the road(combined with I didn't think WF was for real.) Carolina better defend the outside shot better or they won't sniff the Final Four.

[RedOctober3829]

#4 team storming the court.......give me a break.

[DukeSox]

#4 team storming the court.......give me a break.

Haha I agree. Perhaps the real question now -- not who will beat Carolina, but who won't?

[Drocca]

Haha I agree. Perhaps the real question now -- not who will beat Carolina, but who won't?

Clemson at Carolina. They never do. One conference win, along with an undefeated nonconference schedule and the strength of our name alone --- is that enough to make this team tournament bound?

[DukeSox]

and the strength of our name alone --- is that enough to make this team tournament bound?

In a normal year? No. But for a team with Tyler Hansbrough? Absolutely yes.

[Dim13]

Man, that 3-point attempt by Tyler when they were down by 4 late with the ball was a head-scratcher for me.

They also really miss Ginyard on defense.

[Dgilpin]

What really surprises me is how many points this Carolina team gives up, even in their blowout wins of bad teams they seem to give up a lot of points. This doesn't appear to be an elite defensive team at all, I feel like their philosophy is just to try and "out-score" their opponents, similar to some of the Suns and Mavericks teams of the past. Looking at the stats:

Def. FG %: 39.8 (57th)
Def. 3pt. FG%: 32 (108th)
Points per game allowed: 69.5 (217th)
Rebound Margin: 8.8 (10th)
Turnovers: 12.9 (70th)
(National Rank)

They do significantly out rebound their opponents, so I will give them credit there. However the combination of turning the ball over frequently and allowing a lot of points per game is def. going to hurt them against some of the better teams in the country. However the fact they are the best offensive team in the country will help to mask a lot of these problems. Inevitably though they are going to have a cold shooting day in the tournament where they will have to rely upon their defense to carry them or at least get some big stops and I don't think they are going to be able to do it.

Edited by Dgilpin, 12 January 2009 - 09:55 AM.

[Dim13]

I'm not defending their defense at all. I do believe Ginyard's absence has hurt them in this regard, but in those blowout wins, the starters are not in at the end of the games. In the Charleston blowout (granted, they only yielded 70), they finished the game with all freshmen on the floor, I believe.

That said, I am suddenly very nervous about this team. I was not one of those fans expecting an undefeated season, but are some disturbing trends in these losses.

[Dgilpin]

I'm not defending their defense at all. I do believe Ginyard's absence has hurt them in this regard, but in those blowout wins, the starters are not in at the end of the games. In the Charleston blowout (granted, they only yielded 70), they finished the game with all freshmen on the floor, I believe.

That said, I am suddenly very nervous about this team. I was not one of those fans expecting an undefeated season, but are some disturbing trends in these losses.

Agreed, but a lot of people touting this team claim how deep they are. How a lot of their subs could be starting for other schools. It just seems as even against poor opponents they are just overpowering them with their ability to score almost at will and not concentrating on the def. end of the floor. I think the game against BC showed that if they run into an average team on a hot shooting night they are going to have their hands full because of their inability to get stops. I do agree the loss of a Ginyard is having a big effect on the team though.

Edited by Dgilpin, 12 January 2009 - 10:30 AM.

[DukeSox]

Another big away game tonight for UNC -- can they get their first ACC win?

UNC is a 16.5 pt favorite. If they lose to this UVA team...yikes.

[deythur]

With the Pitt loss, Duke should be the new #1.

[DukeSox]

With the Pitt loss, Duke should be the new #1.

I think they'll give it to Wake -- since they're undef. and beat an undef. clemson team.

[deythur]

I think they'll give it to Wake -- since they're undef. and beat an undef. clemson team.

It might end up being split as well. Wake in the AP poll and Duke in the ESPN/USA Today.

I like how Duke handled a bigger team, it will be interesting to see how they handle the Wake guards.

[UNCSoxFan5]

I would vote an undefeated Wake team over a 1 Loss Duke team. But I think we're splitting hairs.

[UNCSoxFan5]

Bump for UNC hosting Clemson 9:00 tonight on ESPN.

[DukeSox]

Bump for UNC hosting Clemson 9:00 tonight on ESPN.

Should be a more competitive game than usual as the 3rd place Tigers visit the 6th place Tar Heels.

[DukeSox]

ACC > Big lEast.

[Drocca]

A great game. Ellington helped with the trap wonderfully, showing a really improved handle and, of course, did just about everything else on the floor well also. We're the best team in the country if he plays to this level.

[Clears Cleaver]

ACC > Big lEast.

whatever. VTech lost to Seton hall (0-6 in the Big East) earlier this year and is basically a lousy team. Clemson proved again last night they are a joke. Terrible discipline and fundamentals. UNC and Duke are great, but have flaws like every other great team this year.

articles like that are worthless.

I liked the way UNC attacked in the second half last night.

[Rudy's Curve]

It's not even close. The Big East might want to pass the Pac-10 first before they start talking about being better than the ACC. Once again, the Big East has a couple overrated teams near the top and the dreck at the bottom is completely ignored. I can't wait until they get 10 teams in.

[RedOctober3829]

I see 4 teams that could make deep runs in the Big East: UConn, Pitt, Louisville, and Syracuse with possibilities to ND, Marquette, Georgetown, and Villanova. Hell, WVU has had recent success in the NCAAs and have looked good since getting relatively healthy. From the ACC, all I can see right now is UNC, Duke, and Wake Forest. Clemson and Miami are paper tigers while Florida State, Maryland, and NC State are mediocre(although they did give Duke a good game). Louisville did lose to Western Kentucky and UNLV but have looked good in wins over Notre Dame and Pitt.

Overrated? I'll give you the fact that UNC would beat UConn, but I'll match up Pitt and Duke and it would be a very close game. When you have 16 teams, you will have some crap at the bottom but the top 8 teams I would match up against any conference and almost guarantee they would come out 5-3 or better.

Edited by RedOctober3829, 22 January 2009 - 12:25 PM.

[UNCSoxFan5]

Monster win. Played really good defense in the 2nd half.

[Drocca]

The Big East is a better "conference" but the word conference must remain in quotations.

[Clears Cleaver]

It's not even close. The Big East might want to pass the Pac-10 first before they start talking about being better than the ACC. Once again, the Big East has a couple overrated teams near the top and the dreck at the bottom is completely ignored. I can't wait until they get 10 teams in.

well, the top 12 teams in the Big East have an average Pomeroy score of .8971, which would place them first ahead of the ACC. The top 10 in the Big East is .92425 versus the top ten of the ACC at .9023. Top eight is even more unbalanced. Even the top four is .9656 vs .9609 in favor of the Big East.

Basically all you did there was prove that the bottom four teams in the Big East suck bad and the rest of the conference both in terms of depth 1-12 and top are better than the ACC based on efficiency rankings

Thanks

[Rudy's Curve]

well, the top 12 teams in the Big East have an average Pomeroy score of .8971, which would place them first ahead of the ACC.

Cool, let me eliminate the bottom quarter of the ACC too. The ACC top 9 has an average of .8894. Also, the Big East top 12 is .8918, not .8971. So yes, the Big East is better than the ACC when excluding the bottom quarter of each conference by a slight amount, an amount that's less than the difference between the Big East and Pac-10.

Basically all you did there was prove that the bottom four teams in the Big East suck bad and the rest of the conference both in terms of depth 1-12 and top are better than the ACC based on efficiency rankings

Thanks

Yes, if only the Big East could eliminate those four teams. I did exactly what I was trying to do - show that the Big East team-for-team isn't as good as the ACC or even the Pac-10. Comparing an arbitrary amount of teams between two leagues with different numbers of teams is a worthless exercise.