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Daughters of Bela Karolyi (Women's Gymnastics)


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#701 Ananti


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:09 AM

Well, someone did say it was a conspiracy. Her dad did.

If you're qualified to think it's incompetent judging, I believe you. I wouldn't have a clue. When I watched it, I thought the midget looked the best, and she only came third. (edit: as TtP already said).


No he didn't, he said he didn't know why the Australia judges stiffed her, he didn't offer a reason as to why.

And what exactly are the "qualifications" that I need to comment on judging? Do I need to have gone to umpire school to say that the home plate umpire was crappy?

Edited by Ananti, 19 August 2008 - 12:10 AM.


#702 phrenile


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:11 AM

(was NZ a former colony of Britain? I'm not so sure on that one).

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Can't quite put my finger on it.

#703 SydneySox


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:50 AM

No he didn't, he said he didn't know why the Australia judges stiffed her, he didn't offer a reason as to why.


As in, it's all an Australian conspiracy against his daughter?

It's not like he was asked questions about the issue. After she lost, he voluntarily made the statement that judges from Australia consistently did not like his daughter and when he was asked for more information or a reason why Australia did not like US Gymnasts and he said he didn't know why.

So he's bitter. And I hope the Australian gymnastics team beats the shit out of him behind the swimming bubble tonight. All 3 of them.

And what exactly are the "qualifications" that I need to comment on judging? Do I need to have gone to umpire school to say that the home plate umpire was crappy?


I reckon basic qualifications for criticising competent judging would start with a basic understanding of the sport and how routines are scored. And, like I said earlier, if you've got that part figured out, I'll take your word that it was incompetent judging. I never argued with you there because how would I know?

But that's a far cry from the alleged National vendetta being suggested by her crazy dad.

Edited by SydneySox, 19 August 2008 - 01:00 AM.


#704 Ananti


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 02:54 AM

As in, it's all an Australian conspiracy against his daughter?

It's not like he was asked questions about the issue. After she lost, he voluntarily made the statement that judges from Australia consistently did not like his daughter and when he was asked for more information or a reason why Australia did not like US Gymnasts and he said he didn't know why.

So he's bitter. And I hope the Australian gymnastics team beats the shit out of him behind the swimming bubble tonight. All 3 of them.


Because they have consistently given her low scores. He never implied there was a conspiracy, it could just as easily be that they tend to deduct more for certain types of mistakes. You're the one who brought up "conspiracy", seems more like you are eager to proclaim the lack of one, why are you so defensive anyway?

I reckon basic qualifications for criticising competent judging would start with a basic understanding of the sport and how routines are scored. And, like I said earlier, if you've got that part figured out, I'll take your word that it was incompetent judging. I never argued with you there because how would I know?


You reckon incorrectly. Recognizing levels of competence takes knowledge and skill, incompetence, on the other hand, is often very easily discernible without any expertise necessary. For example, it take knowledge about baseball to determine who's better between Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz, but any moron can tell you Julio Lugo sucks.

#705 gaelgirl


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 03:51 AM

While I think the dad is understandably pissed his daughter lost, it's not an invalid point to say that the Australian judges have consistently underscored her performances relative to other judges (if that is, in fact, true. I'm not going to go look up the World scores). I don't think he's implying an international conspiracy, just pissed the Aussies keep fucking up his daughter's scores. Maybe it's because Aussies hate her, maybe it's because the Aussie judges value something she doesn't do well or make larger deductions on things that other countries tend to dismiss. The other day the annoucers were talking about how Shawn Johnson doesn't seem to score as highly with European judges, guessing that they just prefer a different look/lines. That does not mean the annoucers believe there is a vast European conspiracy to undervalue Shawn Johnson.

Maybe they should have boxing-style judging and the gymnasts only get credit for elements when a majority of judges count it as successful. It's worked so well with boxing, right?!?

#706 SydneySox


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 06:57 AM

He did imply there was a conspiracy. He implied people from only one country have conspired to consistently score his daughter low. Even the journalists didn't understand. That's a conspiracy that he is alleging exists.

He is what is wrong with youth sport.

This shit is funny. I'm not so much arguing there is no consipracy as ridiculing the thought there could actually be one.

Why so serious?

#707 DukeSox


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:22 AM

Where's the tie between Australia, South Africa and New Zealand?


rugby. how did no one say this yet.

#708 kartvelo

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 08:58 AM

He did imply there was a conspiracy. He implied people from only one country have conspired to consistently score his daughter low.

He said that the judges from one country's sports federation have consistently scored her low, and he said he didn't know why. As others have pointed out, that doesn't imply conspiracy; it could just as easily imply a difference in valuation of certain skills between that group of judges and others.

He may think there's a conspiracy, but his words alone don't imply that. You may infer it, from your observations of him and the way he presents those words, but that's a different issue, and it's your inference.

Edited by kartvelo, 19 August 2008 - 09:01 AM.


#709 Barbara

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:07 PM

Daggett (I think him.) pointed out last night during the brouhaha that there were too many judges in the finals that did not have enough experience at the level of US, China, Russia, etc. I thought he mentioned South Africa as an example. When have you ever seen someone from South Africa in the finals? He said that they did not deduct when they should have deducted. If they had, since in his eyes Nastia clearly had less faults, then she would have / should have won.

So I guess inexperience causes incompetency.

I also didn't trust Miss Nellie Kim (?) , of China, who was the head judge. Someone from the host country should not be head judge.

But the look on Nastia's face. 'I'm tied?' 'I'm in second?'

#710 njingles3

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:16 PM

I also didn't trust Miss Nellie Kim (?) , of China, who was the head judge. Someone from the host country should not be head judge.


As you said, there were perhaps inexperienced judges because there were none from competing countries. Kim is from the former Soviet republic now known as Tajikistan. I think even those in charge of gymnastics can understand how ridiculous it would be to have a head judge from one of these big gymnastics countries.

FWIW, at one point (I think during the All-Around) the judges were coming up with several head-scratching scores until the head judge appeared to give them a little talking to, after which the scores started making more sense.

edit: She did, however, help design the new scoring system, so criticize at will.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Nellie_Kim

Edited by njingles3, 19 August 2008 - 12:18 PM.


#711 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:18 PM

He did imply there was a conspiracy. He implied people from only one country have conspired to consistently score his daughter low. Even the journalists didn't understand. That's a conspiracy that he is alleging exists.

He is what is wrong with youth sport.

This shit is funny. I'm not so much arguing there is no consipracy as ridiculing the thought there could actually be one.

How many Australian judges are even certified to judge at the highest level. Given that it is a country where the sport isn't a very big deal, I can't imagine there are many - is it possible that this "conspiracy" is ONE person who has consistently scored Nastia low? If there are more than one, perhaps they were probably mentored and trained as judges by the same people - and might have similar judging "quirks".

Either that or consiously or sub-conciously they agree that this guy IS what's wrong with youth sports, and quite unprofessionally so, allow that to influence their judging.

Turth is, as I watch, I sadly think that "women's" gymnastics itself is just wrong. The sport is adults gaining glory, fame and fortune through the manipulation of little girls, whether it is the Chinese government, Valeri Liukin or NBC. I don't know the sport well enough to suggest changes - age limits make some sense, but when you take the potentially best performers out of a sport, you hurt it...plus, there's real issue of how you really DO know an age. I don't know. Men's gymnastics is fine, but this so-called "women's" competition is not sport, it's a child-abusive freak show, and somehow it needs to be fixed.

I guess women's gymnastics isn't the only place in the world we see this phenomonen. You've got the "Pageant people", and figure skating (although you're not dealing with athletes as severly young), other "stage-mom" type things you can do, and really any sport can be twisted into a freak show by ignorant parents and others - but only in women's gymnastics does it seem that the higest level is polluted this way, due, I guess, to the extreme youth of the athletes.

Edited by Fred not Lynn, 19 August 2008 - 12:21 PM.


#712 Cuzittt


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 02:30 PM

Oksuna Chusovitina - Silver Medalist, Vault

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33 years old.

Much like Dara Torres in swimming... She proves that Women's Gymnastics need not be just for the ultra-young.

#713 Tony the Pony


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 04:26 PM

Oksuna Chusovitina - Silver Medalist, Vault


He looks like a Harry Potter fan

#714 Barbara

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 08:34 PM

As you said, there were perhaps inexperienced judges because there were none from competing countries. Kim is from the former Soviet republic now known as Tajikistan. I think even those in charge of gymnastics can understand how ridiculous it would be to have a head judge from one of these big gymnastics countries.

FWIW, at one point (I think during the All-Around) the judges were coming up with several head-scratching scores until the head judge appeared to give them a little talking to, after which the scores started making more sense.

edit: She did, however, help design the new scoring system, so criticize at will.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Nellie_Kim


I wondered about that and didn't have time to look it up. I thought I had heard her referred to as Chinese.

Thanks for the correction.

#715 njingles3

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:05 PM

Once again a Chinese gymnast is deducted on a different scale from everyone else.

#716 ngruz25


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:12 PM

I love these announcers' reactions when a gymnast screws up. "Ooooh" "Whoops" "Uh oh"

#717 njingles3

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:22 PM

Nastia looks good in white.

#718 ngruz25


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:23 PM

That was an awkward hug between Nastia and Johnson.

#719 njingles3

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:24 PM

Good luck wiping the smile off that little girl's face for a few weeks.

#720 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:26 PM

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#721 The Napkin


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:26 PM

These girls do this on a 4" beam with people clapping and hundreds of cameras going off. And a golfer can't hit a drive without total silence and a complete lack of movement. Just sayin'.

#722 ngruz25


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:28 PM

She really does have a scarily cute smile. If only she didn't walk like a zombie.

#723 Ahriman


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:34 PM

Nastia is still taller than her standing on the silver medalist's platform.

#724 Ed Hillel


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:38 PM

She really does have a scarily cute smile. If only she didn't walk like a zombie.


I don't know what this makes me seem like, but she reminds me of a cute little chipmunk. She was one of my favorite athletes at these games.

#725 Euclis20

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:39 PM

Gotta give her credit, it's hard to form entire sentences while smiling.

Edited by Euclis20, 19 August 2008 - 10:39 PM.


#726 sachmoney


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:40 PM

Nastia is still taller than her standing on the silver medalist's platform.


Nastia's only 5-3

Shawn looks really cute in studio here. I'm a fan of Nastia's though.

#727 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:40 PM

I don't know what this makes me seem like, but she reminds me of a cute little chipmunk. She was one of my favorite athletes at these games.


You are at least #3!

Love the earrings!

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#728 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:44 PM

wow, Costas is a douchebag. (If that wasn't previously proven).

#729 Gehenna


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Posted 20 August 2008 - 03:23 AM

Gosh, Shawn is the most adorable thing ever. She deserved that gold. Again, Chinese judging blasphemy.

#730 johnmd20


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Posted 20 August 2008 - 08:22 AM

Gosh, Shawn is the most adorable thing ever. She deserved that gold. Again, Chinese judging blasphemy.

She is cute, with a great smile. Seems like her and Nastia are solid friends who back each other up, seeing them finish 1-2 in the beam was cool. In terms of the hittable factor, Nastia wins by a mile, but her creepy relationship with her father hurts her rating a little bit.

#731 The Napkin


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Posted 20 August 2008 - 11:00 AM

Seems like (Shawn) and Nastia are solid friends who back each other up.

They are. In fact this whole group is very close.

#732 Barbara

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 12:02 PM

I love these announcers' reactions when a gymnast screws up. "Ooooh" "Whoops" "Uh oh"


I agree. But were a couple of times last night that I couldn't tell if the 'ooooh' meant a good 'ooooh' or a bad 'ooooh' since the gymnast was still performing and hadn't fallen. Sometimes it means the gymnast didn't complete all 3 components, but we are clueless as to what maneuver is expected next.

Note: I just did a spell check and realized that I have been consistently misspelling gymnast. Sheesh.

#733 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 20 August 2008 - 08:47 PM

That's it? 5 athletes? No Semenova, no hot Romanian chick? NBC, where's the rest of the Gala?

#734 The Napkin


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Posted 20 August 2008 - 09:07 PM

oxygen channel from 6-8 tomorrow

#735 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 20 August 2008 - 09:18 PM

oxygen channel from 6-8 tomorrow



Alrighty, I guess I have 19 hours to find a friendly lesbian with Oxygen access . . .

#736 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 20 August 2008 - 11:21 PM

Sacramone will NOT be at the TD Banknorth for the USA Gymnastics Tour in October.

#737 Obscure Name


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Posted 20 August 2008 - 11:35 PM

Sacramone will NOT be at the TD Banknorth for the USA Gymnastics Tour in October.

I guess I can leave the tomatoes at home.

#738 sachmoney


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Posted 21 August 2008 - 11:19 PM

It looks like the US could get their gold after all...:rolling:

#739 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 26 August 2008 - 10:49 PM

Nastia's on Leno tonight.

#740 shawnrbu


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Posted 27 August 2008 - 10:08 AM

The segment is on youtube in case anybody wants to check it out. It's different seeing Nastia all glammed up than when she was competing with her hair up and everything. Was that her first time wearing heels? She does have an elegant look. I'm still thrilled for her that she won the All-Around when so many people had been favoring Shawn Johnson. Having Norm McDonald share the stage with her provided a nice comedic touch.

Edited by shawnrbu, 27 August 2008 - 10:09 AM.


#741 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:01 PM

USA 1 France 0