59 replies to this topic

[mabrowndog]

Gary Russell Jr., who seemed a good bet to win gold for the US in the 119-lb bantamweight division, collapsed in his dorm room today, apparently from the effects of trying to make the weight limit. He will not compete.

link

[Razor Shines]

There is a local guy to root for here, Demetrius Andrade from Providence, RI.

Here's a writeup on him from the Projo.

He is the #1 ranked amateur welterweight in the world, and a favorite to win the Gold in that class.

[BGrif21125]

There is a local guy to root for here, Demetrius Andrade from Providence, RI.

Here's a writeup on him from the Projo.

He is the #1 ranked amateur welterweight in the world, and a favorite to win the Gold in that class.

As an RI native/boxing junkie, this is the one athlete I'll be making a point to follow during the next two weeks. My knowledge of Andrade is basically limited to some brief youtube clips and several articles I've read over the past few months, but by all accounts he's the best hope for a US boxing gold, and he's also considered the best pro prospect of anyone on the team (he'll likely turn pro after these Games).

I'll have to double-check this, but I believe it's been something like 75 years since New England produced a boxing medalist. So if Andrade were to pull it off, it'd be a pretty big deal.

I was pleasantly surprised that boxing is getting on average about 3 hours of coverage a day on CNBC and Universal HD. They're showing fights live every night from 2-5 am, then replaying them from 5pm-8pm. I caught a little bit of the live coverage last night.

[axx]

I was watching one of the fights, it was a close match, but I got very annoyed at all of the tieups. Seems like they would throw a punch or two, and then tieup.

[RoyHobbs]

I'll have to double-check this, but I believe it's been something like 75 years since New England produced a boxing medalist. So if Andrade were to pull it off, it'd be a pretty big deal.

This piqued my interest so I looked through an Olympics database and it looks like it was Worcester's Harold Devine, who won bronze in 1928 (featherweight).

[pdaj]

As an RI native/boxing junkie, this is the one athlete I'll be making a point to follow during the next two weeks. My knowledge of Andrade is basically limited to some brief youtube clips and several articles I've read over the past few months, but by all accounts he's the best hope for a US boxing gold, and he's also considered the best pro prospect of anyone on the team (he'll likely turn pro after these Games).

I'll have to double-check this, but I believe it's been something like 75 years since New England produced a boxing medalist. So if Andrade were to pull it off, it'd be a pretty big deal.

I was pleasantly surprised that boxing is getting on average about 3 hours of coverage a day on CNBC and Universal HD. They're showing fights live every night from 2-5 am, then replaying them from 5pm-8pm. I caught a little bit of the live coverage last night.

BGrif - Where abouts RI are you? I grew up in Pawtucket and now live in Providence.

Saw Andrade fight a few times - he's even faster than his YouTube clips display. He doesn't come across as the brightest bulb in the shed, but from what I'm told, he eats, sleeps, and shits boxing. As a fellow RI-er, I'll be following him as well. It'd be great to see him take the Gold.

Edit: Here's the entire team: http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Edited by pdaj, 10 August 2008 - 02:15 AM.

[BGrif21125]

Btw, Andrade's first fight should be on CNBC later today. They're showing the welterweights (Andrade's division) this afternoon, I'm not sure if it's from 4pm-7pm or 5pm-8pm, I've seen both times listed. The fights have already happened and will be on tape-delay, but I didn't see the live airing so I'm trying to avoid spoilers until then.

[pdaj]

According to the Projo, the Andrade fight is at 9:15 AM and will be aired (delay) this afternoon.

[shawnrbu]

The fights have already happened and will be on tape-delay, but I didn't see the live airing so I'm trying to avoid spoilers until then.

Too bad you missed the Lightwelterweight and Welterweight fights shown live in the wee hours Sunday morning. Thought they were far more entertaining than the previous day of Middleweight and Lightheavyweight. Most of the fights were one-sided, but there was a lot less clutching, more precision punching. The Welterweight division seems stacked with good quality boxers. Really looking forward to seeing Andrade later today and the later rounds from this division.

[eddiew112]

Too bad you missed the Lightwelterweight and Welterweight fights shown live in the wee hours Sunday morning. Thought they were far more entertaining than the previous day of Middleweight and Lightheavyweight. Most of the fights were one-sided, but there was a lot less clutching, more precision punching. The Welterweight division seems stacked with good quality boxers. Really looking forward to seeing Andrade later today and the later rounds from this division.

Unless the fighters have pro talent, any fight in the amateurs that is above 165 is a shit show. The elite amateurs in the lower weight classes are incredibly accurate and talented boxers (more so than most pros), but most of them have limited punching power.

I couldn't be happier for Demetrius Andrade. I have been following his career for sometime now (I first saw him in the gym when he was 14), and he has really come into his own as the star of the USA Boxing team. Russell was one of our other medal hopes, but now that he is gone, it rests on Yanez and Andrade.

[Ed Hillel]

I love and hate watching these matchups. The part I love is watching the amateurs fight with passion for their country and I also love listening to Teddy Atlas, who I think may be the best announcer I've ever heard that covers a single sport. I also like the 5 2-minute rounds because I think it allows the boxers to keep their energy level up and to keep the boxing more crisp.

The bad part is watching punches that pretty clearly get through not counted in the scoring. I find myself constantly looking at the scoreboard expecting the scores to move, but seeing them stay the same. It's a bit frustrating and I can't say I blame the corners for constantly bitching.

[BGrif21125]

The elite amateurs in the lower weight classes are incredibly accurate and talented boxers (more so than most pros), but most of them have limited punching power.

I wonder if part of this is because the amateur scoring system is all about the quantity of punches, and not the power behind them. Since it's just a punch-counting system, it seems to encourage guys to just focus on landing fast flurries of punches, instead of sitting down on a punch and really trying to land with authority.

In a pro fight, if one fighter lands 10 flush head-snapping punches in a round, and his opponent lands 15 slaps, the judges can subjectively score the round for the guy who landed the fewer, but more meaningful, blows. In an amateur fight, the high quantity automatically wins out.

[Rocco Graziosa]

I wonder if part of this is because the amateur scoring system is all about the quantity of punches, and not the power behind them. Since it's just a punch-counting system, it seems to encourage guys to just focus on landing fast flurries of punches, instead of sitting down on a punch and really trying to land with authority.

In a pro fight, if one fighter lands 10 flush head-snapping punches in a round, and his opponent lands 15 slaps, the judges can subjectively score the round for the guy who landed the fewer, but more meaningful, blows. In an amateur fight, the high quantity automatically wins out.

So maybe I can blame the Olympics for pro boxers that employ a "two taps to the tummy one tap to the head" attack? Its utterly unwatchable.

[eddiew112]

I wonder if part of this is because the amateur scoring system is all about the quantity of punches, and not the power behind them. Since it's just a punch-counting system, it seems to encourage guys to just focus on landing fast flurries of punches, instead of sitting down on a punch and really trying to land with authority.

In a pro fight, if one fighter lands 10 flush head-snapping punches in a round, and his opponent lands 15 slaps, the judges can subjectively score the round for the guy who landed the fewer, but more meaningful, blows. In an amateur fight, the high quantity automatically wins out.

You just named the biggest problem with the amateur boxing system. The reason that the AIBA instituted the punch-count system was to cut down on poor judging, which can be much more devastating in a 4 round bout than in a 12 round one. We all remember how Roy Jones Jr. was robbed by corrupt judges in Seoul. Of course, it still takes human decision to award a punch (3 out of 5 judges need to cite it as a punch within a given amount of time), so its still very faulty. It does, in a sense, reward flurry punchers, but it also encourages precision punching and defense, which is certainly a positive. Indeed, you often see that fighters with a lot of amateur experience are very, very polished boxers.

In terms of power, the reason you don't see a lot of big-time power punches in the lower weight classes is because if you are a good boxer in the countries where the smaller guys generally come from (Phillipines, Mexico, Puerto Rico, sometimes Thailand), you turn pro when you are a teenager, and do not follow the traditional amateur route. Also, the bigger gloves and head gear plays into it somewhat. And, as you said, you are not rewarded for taking risks by going for it, so most guys don't bother.

[BGrif21125]

In terms of power, the reason you don't see a lot of big-time power punches in the lower weight classes is because if you are a good boxer in the countries where the smaller guys generally come from (Phillipines, Mexico, Puerto Rico, sometimes Thailand), you turn pro when you are a teenager, and do not follow the traditional amateur route.

I didn't even think of this angle... makes complete sense. Those countries basically account for every notable pro fighter 126 pounds and below.

[Stuart Scott's Lazy Eye]

Just saw the Andrade fight on CNBC. Jesus was that ugly. The guy from Georgia kept going for a modified head lock.

Russia should just box them and make it easier for themselves.

edit: I'd like to add that "flailing" should not be part of the game plan for Andrade going forward.

Edited by Stuart Scott's Lazy Eye, 10 August 2008 - 05:15 PM.

[eddiew112]

Demetrius looked uneven, but his opponent's style was ridiculous. I hate the Russian style more than anything....

[BGrif21125]

Just saw the Andrade fight on CNBC. Jesus was that ugly. The guy from Georgia kept going for a modified head lock.

Ya, that guy's most effective combination was the headbutt followed by the headlock.

[shawnrbu]

Demetrius looked uneven, but his opponent's style was ridiculous. I hate the Russian style more than anything....

And Boo Boo's Round of 16 opponent on Thursday the 14th will just so happen to be from Russia. I believe the guy is something like 32 years old (something like two years under the age limit). Andrade looks like he could have vicious power if he connects flush with his biggest power shots.

[BGrif21125]

I caught some of the live featherweight fights late last night (which will be replayed this afternoon).

I won't give away any results, although I will say that there was a great fight between an Aussie and a French fighter (forget their names) that is definitely worth checking out. I think it was about an hour into the coverage. They basically just traded bombs the whole fight. While their fight was really entertaining, it also just added to my confusion regarding the scoring. They would have 5 second exchanges where they traded multiple clean punches, and their point totals wouldn't budge. I have no idea right now what counts as a point and what doesn't. When it comes to jabbing, it seems that you have to decapitate your opponent to get a point for it.

[Naehring11]

I caught some of the live featherweight fights late last night (which will be replayed this afternoon).

I won't give away any results, although I will say that there was a great fight between an Aussie and a French fighter (forget their names) that is definitely worth checking out. I think it was about an hour into the coverage. They basically just traded bombs the whole fight. While their fight was really entertaining, it also just added to my confusion regarding the scoring. They would have 5 second exchanges where they traded multiple clean punches, and their point totals wouldn't budge. I have no idea right now what counts as a point and what doesn't. When it comes to jabbing, it seems that you have to decapitate your opponent to get a point for it.

During one of the fights they mentioned that if there is an exchange of punches they will award a point once its done to whoever got the best of the exchange. Maybe that explains it, but it doesn't make it a good scoring system.

As much as professional boxing is my favorite sport to watch, Olympic boxing might be the most frustrating event. I haven't really enjoyed it so far at all. I'll probably try to catch the rest of Andrade's fights, but I don't think I'll be going out of my way to find boxing for the rest of the games.

[eddiew112]

I caught some of the live featherweight fights late last night (which will be replayed this afternoon).

I won't give away any results, although I will say that there was a great fight between an Aussie and a French fighter (forget their names) that is definitely worth checking out. I think it was about an hour into the coverage. They basically just traded bombs the whole fight. While their fight was really entertaining, it also just added to my confusion regarding the scoring. They would have 5 second exchanges where they traded multiple clean punches, and their point totals wouldn't budge. I have no idea right now what counts as a point and what doesn't. When it comes to jabbing, it seems that you have to decapitate your opponent to get a point for it.

Under the AIBA's system, three out of the five judges have to register the punch as a point within one second of one another. It is a pretty stupid system because the time frame can constantly change. For example, if a punch misses the first two judges, but Judge 3 scores it as a point, then 4 and 5 have to respond in kid within a second.

[The Napkin]

This scoring system is a complete joke. A guy takes a punch that snaps his neck back and it's not a point? A punch knocks a guy off the ropes and it's not a point?

The Ukraine guy in that Chinese-Ukraine bout that was just on (Hu Ching won) got jobbed.

[jkempa]

This scoring system is a complete joke. A guy takes a punch that snaps his neck back and it's not a point? A punch knocks a guy off the ropes and it's not a point?

The Ukraine guy in that Chinese-Ukraine bout that was just on (Hu Ching won) got jobbed.

I admittedly only saw the 4th round, but there were at least two points awarded to Hu that were absolute crap. Had he not gotten those two points, tie match. If that was indicative of the rest of the match it's just putrid. You could tell he was not enamored with the scoring.

[Obscure Name]

Yeah, I don't get the scoring at all. They should just fight until one guy gets knocked out.

[BGrif21125]

This scoring system is a complete joke. A guy takes a punch that snaps his neck back and it's not a point? A punch knocks a guy off the ropes and it's not a point?

The Ukraine guy in that Chinese-Ukraine bout that was just on (Hu Ching won) got jobbed.

Ya, I don't mean to keep harping on the scoring, because overall I've found the fights to be entertaining, but it is a completely flawed system.

As Eddie alluded to earlier in the thread, this punch-counting computer scoring system was instituted in response to the controversy in Seoul in 1988 when Roy Jones got blatantly robbed under the old scoring system. But the problem is that this system doesn't really prevent bad judges from continuing to screw things up. The problem in Seoul wasn't in the scoring system, it was with the judges themselves. Just as bad judges can score a round 10-9 for the wrong guy, they can also count the wrong punches in a punch-counting system.

And even if you're going to use a punch-counting system, why have open scoring? The way it is now, since the crowd and fighters can see the score, if a guy has a lead in the last round, he can just run in circles and kill the clock to sit on his lead. I also think it makes no sense that a knockdown or standing 8 doesn't earn you any extra points. Not to mention that there are almost no points given out for jabs, despite the fact that the jab is the single most important punch in boxing.

On a positive note, I am glad that NBC actually got 3 announcers (Papa, Atlas, Grey) with legit boxing announcing experience to work the broadcast. Since boxing isn't a big priority, I was worried NBC might go cheap and just throw a couple of clueless no-names out there on the broadcast.

Edited by BGrif21125, 12 August 2008 - 05:42 AM.

[WoburnDiaspora]

I got so frustrated with the scoring that I stopped watching. It's crap, complete crap.

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

http://www.nbcolympi...r knocks warren

Tough break for the only returning American boxer from 2004.

[BGrif21125]

http://www.nbcolympi...r knocks warren

Tough break for the only returning American boxer from 2004.

The Warren fight was an all-out clusterfuck in every conceivable manner.

First off, the scoring defied explanation. I don't think Warren got robbed, because the ridiculous calls worked both ways. But the scoring made no sense. At one point, Warren landed a flush left hand that was clear as day, and the judges awarded a point to his opponent, who had done nothing other than eat a punch in the face. Then a little later, Warren took a big shot and almost went down, and the judges awarded him a point for a landed punch and he was falling to the ground with his hands hanging by his sides. It was so bad that the announcers were openly wondering if the judges were getting confused and accidently hitting the wrong buttons.

Then, Warren is down 9-8 with 30 seconds to go, and somehow he got confused and thought he was the one who was ahead, so he started running in circles to kill the clock, when he was in fact the one who was behind and needed to be going all-out to land a punch to avoid defeat.

So, that's now 4 US fighters who are eliminated, 5 still alive.

[biollante]

I saw some boxing last night.
The scoring does not seem consistent in any manner.
A very flawed system. Seems to be the consensus here and I hadn't even seen this thread yet.

[Ed Hillel]

I'm watching Wilder go right now for the US. He looked awful the first two rounds, but just came out with an awesome 3rd. He gave his opponent a standing 8 and didn't get a point for it, wtf.

[Ed Hillel]

WOW! Wilder went on a 4-0 run in the first 45 seconds of the last round and won the final round 6-0 to win the bout 10-4. He looked awesome the entire second half.

"Brad Pitt" now boxing for Australia.

Edited by Ed Hillel, 13 August 2008 - 10:31 PM.

[fletcherpost]

Some of these judges are just not up to the task. I mean it's just so random. I wonder what the selection proces is. Also do they change the judges for each bout?

I've seen fights where there's barely a point scored in the first two rounds, jabs not counting, fighters whose work isn't recognised finding themselves behind going into the last round, leaving themselves open as they haplessly chase the fight.

And there's a lot of running around and holding in the last 30 seconds when a fighter knows he is ahead. It's not what amateur boxing is about. It's about skill and accuracy. BBC has their top guys doing the commentating and they keep going on about it. It's kind of pissing me off, cos I love the boxing.

[cannonball 1729]

Some of these judges are just not up to the task. I mean it's just so random. I wonder what the selection proces is. Also do they change the judges for each bout?

I've seen fights where there's barely a point scored in the first two rounds, jabs not counting, fighters whose work isn't recognised finding themselves behind going into the last round, leaving themselves open as they haplessly chase the fight.

And there's a lot of running around and holding in the last 30 seconds when a fighter knows he is ahead. It's not what amateur boxing is about. It's about skill and accuracy. BBC has their top guys doing the commentating and they keep going on about it. It's kind of pissing me off, cos I love the boxing.

That Samir/Washington fight was one of the more lopsided fights I've ever seen - and, naturally, the judges called it the wrong way. Olympic boxing is simply not worth watching anymore. I don't know what's worse:

1.) The fact that the announcers spend the entire fight bitching and moaning about the scoring system, or
2.) The fact that they're absolutely right, and I find myself agreeing with them.

The worst part is that CNBC shows only boxing and no other sports. Apparently, crappy boxing with random scoring is the only sport worth showing in the entire olympics.

[shawnrbu]

CNBC showed softball and badminton (was a great back and forth between a Chinese woman taking on Germany) in the overnight prior to boxing. I like how boxing gets its own block from 5 to 8 PM, regardless of how erratic the scoring may be.

[eddiew112]

Yea I am a boxing junkie, so I am still watching this with interest. However, I have been appauled by the lack of quality of the big men. Last night I saw Clemente Russo, the supposed heavyweight WC from Italy. To put it lightly, he sucked. His fundamentals were fucking awful, I swear I have seen six year olds with more boxing acumen. The clown he was fighting (a supposed silver medalist) was no better; the fight basically became little better than a bum fight.

[Ed Hillel]

Yea I am a boxing junkie, so I am still watching this with interest. However, I have been appauled by the lack of quality of the big men. Last night I saw Clemente Russo, the supposed heavyweight WC from Italy. To put it lightly, he sucked. His fundamentals were fucking awful, I swear I have seen six year olds with more boxing acumen. The clown he was fighting (a supposed silver medalist) was no better; the fight basically became little better than a bum fight.

Did you get a chance to see Usyk from the Ukraine? He's only 21 and looks like a legitimate heavyweight, perhaps even a title contender some day. He's about as quick a heavyweight as I've seen in a long time. He's a southpaw, too, which gives him an advantage over most of the competition.

[The Napkin]

That Brazil win over Ghana was silly. How can they expect us to take this seriously?

[shawnrbu]

Andrade looked much better in his 2nd round fight. He didn't have to deal with an awkward style. Started off slow with the jab in Round 1, but he was rewarded from the 2nd Round onward. He tagged the much shorter Russian with quality left uppercuts almost at will. Almost pitched a shutout in the scoring (2 of the 3 points for the Russian were for a warning that Andrade was lowering his head improperly). I didn't catch who Teddy and Bob said Andrade's Quarterfinal opponent would be on Sunday. Anybody know which country the opponent is from?

Edited by shawnrbu, 14 August 2008 - 09:46 PM.

[BGrif21125]

Andrade looked much better in his 2nd round fight. He didn't have to deal with an awkward style. Started off slow with the jab in Round 1, but he was rewarded from the 2nd Round onward. He tagged the much shorter Russian with quality left uppercuts almost at will.

Ya, he did look much better. And a lot of that had to do with committing to the jab in Round 1. A lot of the US fighters are completely abandoning the jab because it's not a scoring punch under this system. And that's a dumb move IMO, because even though it might not score points, throwing the jab makes it exponentially easier to land the clean power punches that WILL score points. Andrade was only ahead 2-0 after Round 1, but he had thrown a ton of jabs, and those jabs allowed him to open up and land power punches over the rest of the fight. Establishing the jab will be the key for him the rest of the way.

I didn't catch who Teddy and Bob said Andrade's Quarterfinal opponent would be on Sunday. Anybody know which country the opponent is from?

I believe it's a South Korean fighter. Not 100% sure though.

[fletcherpost]

I just watched the Japanese Featherweight lose to the Turk. The Turk got two standing eight counts - which are essentially meaningless and many of the Japanese guy's punches did not score even though you could see the Turks head being knocked back with the force of the punch in certain instances. "It's a disgrace" said the BBC Commentators one of whom is ex World Champ Richie Woodhall so i reckon he knows what he's talking about.

It's getting column inches though that's for sure.

James Lawton in the Independent Re: Judging

If a good fighting rhythm, built around well-delivered body shots, is going to be ignored, if the judges are saying you might as well try to climb through the bedroom than walk purposefully up the stairs, the only option left is a bleak conviction that assessment of amateur boxing at its highest level is plunging through the canvas.

[BGrif21125]

US now down to 4 guys left.

Raynell Williams (featherweight) lost today to a Frenchy. Again, the scoring was beyond explanation. However, like the Warren fight, I am a little hesitant to call it a robbery because the bad scoring works both ways. But there were numerous clean punches that were not scored. It's a bad system to begin with, but the judges are also doing a horrible job of implementing it.

While Williams lost, I was somewhat impressed with him. I could see him having a chance to be a good pro.

Edited by BGrif21125, 15 August 2008 - 10:17 PM.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

US now down to 4 guys left.

Raynell Williams (featherweight) lost today to a Frenchy. Again, the scoring was beyond explanation. However, like the Warren fight, I am a little hesitant to call it a robbery because the bad scoring works both ways. But there were numerous clean punches that were not scored. It's a bad system to begin with, but the judges are also doing a horrible job of implementing it.

While Williams lost, I was somewhat impressed with him. I could see him having a chance to be a good pro.

I thought Williams landed a number of clean body shots that were not scored, but that seems to be one of the consistent problems with this "system," if it can even be called a system. Body shots are not scored, jabs are not scored. Ridiculous. As Teddy Atlas said, they're ruining the sport. Olympic boxing has always been plagued by controversy (like professional boxing -- but for some reason the amateurs and especially the Olympics have always been worse). But it's also been one of the jewels of the Olympics. But they seem determined to turn it into a complete joke.

That said, I did think Williams lost that fight. He seemed to have very little answer for the Frenchman's airtight defense and seemed unprepared for the pressure put on him by the French fighter (whose name is Khedafi Djelkhir), which is odd because Williams fought and beat the same guy last year, apparently. I don't know anything about this American coach -- Dan Campbell, I think his name is -- but I have to question the coaching and overall preparedness of the American team. In addition to this loss, they've had a fighter fail to make weight (and collapse unconscious in the effort), another inadvertently throw a fight because he didn't know the score and a third seemingly fall apart mentally after falling behind by a point early.

But I really like the looks of Demetrius Andrade who should make an exciting pro prospect, and Deontay Wilder's comeback hevayweight victory was inspiring.

Earlier in yesterday's program, I thought that Russian bantamweight really got jobbed in his fight with the flashy Indian kid (that was Sergey Vodopyanov vs. Akhil Kumar). The bout ended in a 9-9 tie, then the Indian won an "accepted scores," a concept I'm still not sure I understand. In any case, I thought the Russian did a good job controlling that fight and landed more clean punches, but lost.

On a positive note, I really liked the Moldovan fighter who dominated the Chinese boxer Gu Yu, and the Cubans continue to be as impressive as they've always been.

Still, watching the Olympic event reminds me why I like pro boxing.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Just a quick follow-up on the matter of U.S. coaching. This news story about Luis Yanez's frustrating loss pretty much confirms that there's a serious rift between Dan Campbell and his fighters, who by and large do not respect him.

What is the possible excuse for allowing a situation like this?!

When Campbell told Yanez to keep his hands close, Yanez left them low. When Campbell visibly pleaded with Yanez to attack his Mongolian opponent, the boxer sat back with inexplicable caution, eventually waiting until it was too late.


But Campbell couldn’t have been terribly surprised to see Yanez doing his own thing in the ring. Last month, Yanez told The Associated Press that if he got reinstated to the U.S. team, he wouldn’t be listening to Campbell in his corner anyway.

[pdaj]

Andrade loses in a close battle.

http://www.beloblog....de-loses-i.html

Providence's world welterweight champion, Demetrius Andrade, lost a close, furiously fought decision this morning to South Korean boxer Jungjoo Kim, ending Andrade's quest for a medal in his first Olympic Games. Kim now advances to the semifinal round.

Kim scored one more point than Andrade in both the first and the third rounds, for a total 11-9 advantage; the second and fourth rounds were even.

Heavyweight Deontay Wilder is the only American boxer left in the Games. Should Wilder fall later this morning to Morocco's Mohammed Arjaoui, these will be the first Olympic Games that the United States has competed in and failed to win a medal in boxing.

[shawnrbu]

It's obvious USA Boxing needs a complete overhaul. I'm embarassed that the U.S. can fail so spectacularly on the Olympic stage. Pump some more funds into this thing, find competent training and get this thing back on track by the London games.

[BGrif21125]

What a disastrous showing by the US team.

I know Andrade was upset, but it wouldn't have killed him to stay in the ring an extra 15 seconds while his opponent's hand was raised.

[eddiew112]

Fuck.

This all pisses me off, but don't count me as surprised. Wilder has been the only bright spot so far, and I think the early losses of Ali, Warren, Yanez and Russell were major disappointments. Andrade fought a tough fight and didn't have the scoring go his way. I thought he won by a small margin, but there is no way to tell.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

It's obvious USA Boxing needs a complete overhaul. I'm embarassed that the U.S. can fail so spectacularly on the Olympic stage. Pump some more funds into this thing, find competent training and get this thing back on track by the London games.

I just do not understand why U.S. boxing is subjected to a "team" approach. Apparently, for the first time, the Olympic boxers actually housed and trained together for a solid year all with one coach, Dan Campbell, and his staff. Why? Are the other individual sports treated this way? Michael Phelps had his own coach with him the whole time. What if Phelps had been sequestered for a year with the rest of the US Swim team and coached by someone whose methods and philosophies conflicted with what he'd been taught for years by his own coach? I notice the women's gymnasts have their personal coaches (in one case, the girl's father) right on the floor with them.

So why in boxing -- the most individualistic of all individual sports -- do we force a "team concept" on our fighters? I think that is probably at the root of the problem for the U.S. team this year. I hope that this debacle is a wake-up call for U.S. boxing, and that in 2012 boxers are permitted to keep their own training regimens with their own coaches, who can accompany them and even work their corners. The U.S. isn't lacking for talent in the amateur ranks. We should have had at least three medalists this year, if not four or five. So clearly the problem lies in the areas of focus, preparation and attitude.

And the scoring system, of course, but that's a whole other story.

[BGrif21125]

I just do not understand why U.S. boxing is subjected to a "team" approach. Apparently, for the first time, the Olympic boxers actually housed and trained together for a solid year all with one coach, Dan Campbell, and his staff. Why? Are the other individual sports treated this way? Michael Phelps had his own coach with him the whole time. What if Phelps had been sequestered for a year with the rest of the US Swim team and coached by someone whose methods and philosophies conflicted with what he'd been taught for years by his own coach? I notice the women's gymnasts have their personal coaches (in one case, the girl's father) right on the floor with them.

So why in boxing -- the most individualistic of all individual sports -- do we force a "team concept" on our fighters?

Ya, this didn't make any sense to me either. At one point (maybe it was during the Yanez fight), Papa commented something to the efftect of "we've been hearing rumors that fighters on the team have been calling their personal trainers back at home for advice, instead of just listening to the Campbell." And my immediate thought was, "Of course they're calling home for advice, their longtime personal trainers probably know 10x more about them than the US coach does!"

Like you said, boxing is the antithesis of a "team sport," so it makes no sense to take the team approach.