141 replies to this topic

[SoxFanPJ]

"They haven't asked me for anything," Ramirez told ESPNdeportes.com's Enrique Rojas on the phone from Fenway Park before the Red Sox-Angels matchup on Wednesday night.

"The Red Sox don't deserve a player like me," Ramirez said. "During my years here I've seen how they [the Red Sox]have mistreated other great players when they didn't want them to try to turn the fans against them.

"The Red Sox did the same with guys like Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez, and now they do the same with me. Their goal is to paint me as the bad guy," Ramirez added. "I love Boston fans, but the Red Sox don't deserve me. I'm not talking about money. Mental peace has no price and I don't have peace here."

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3511804

[SoxScout]

"The Red Sox don't deserve a player like me," Ramirez said. "During my years here I've seen how they [the Red Sox]have mistreated other great players when they didn't want them to try to turn the fans against them.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3511804

Holy shit. This is ugly.

Edited by SoxScout, 30 July 2008 - 06:46 PM.

[paulie102704]

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3511804

Wow those are some pretty strong words. I don't have agood taste in my mouth. I really think a trade for Bay++ is done by midnight...

Edited by paulie102704, 30 July 2008 - 06:46 PM.

[Foulkey Reese]

Holy. Shit.

Has he been reading SoSH?

Things have gotten pretty out of hand here.

[Return of the Dewey]

Wow those are some pretty strong words. I don't have agood taste in my mouth. I really think a trade for Bay++ is done by midnight...

Honestly, I hope the deal is done sooner rather than later....it'll still give the FO time to pay attention to the team's glaring needs...like, you know, the bullpen arm that SOSH has been discussing for the past 2 months.

[Noah]

What the hell is he talking about? How have the Red Sox turned the fans against him?

[Return of the Dewey]

What the hell is he talking about? How have the Red Sox turned the fans against him?

If I had to guess, it could be the whole leaking of stories about Manny not really being hurt, having him go get an MRI and threatening suspension if he didn't play the SAT MFY game.

[Trautwein's Degree]

Bye Manny.

[Rocco Graziosa]

What the hell is he talking about? How have the Red Sox turned the fans against him?

They booed him when he didn't run out that grounder last night. He threw his helmet when he got back to the dugout and seemed pretty pissed. This is now big time ugly with a capitol U. I don't see how they can mend this fence, even if its for the rest of the season, but I suppose stranger things have happened. One thing I feel for certain......its best if both sides part ways now. Like tonight.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 30 July 2008 - 07:02 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

Usually, I'd say something on the lines of "Earth to Manny: Shut Up" here, but I'm not sure those lines of communication are operational

[JimD]

Manny is talking out of his ass here. This is not a PR battle he is going to win.

[E5 Yaz]

Manny is talking out of his ass here. This is not a PR battle he is going to win.

It worked for Jim Carrey.

[Manny's Hammies]

The Red Sox should tell Boras that, his search for top dollar notwithstanding, that this is an absolutely shit way to conduct business -- forcing your way out of town after the team has put up with your client's bullshit for 8 years. And for anyone who thinks Boras isn't behind this "strategy," they're naive.

I've never been a Manny Apologist or a hater, but I've always been sentimental when it comes to Manny, wanting things to work out. At this point, though, I have no sentimentality left for this guy. As a fan and nothing more, I've seen enough of this. Fuck off, already.

[Trautwein's Degree]

The Red Sox should tell Boras that, his search for top dollar notwithstanding, that this is an absolutely shit way to conduct business -- forcing your way out of town after the team has put up with your client's bullshit for 8 years. And for anyone who thinks Boras isn't behind this "strategy," they're naive.

Yeah, Manny never pulled this kind of nonsense at the end of July before he signed with Boras.

Edited by Trautwein's Degree, 30 July 2008 - 07:23 PM.

[HomeBrew1901]

They booed him when he didn't run out that grounder last night. He threw his helmet when he got back to the dugout and seemed pretty pissed. This is now big time ugly with a capitol U. I don't see how they can mend this fence, even if its for the rest of the season, but I suppose stranger things have happened. One thing I feel for certain......its best if both sides part ways now. Like tonight.

I honestly don't remember but wasn't 2005 pretty ugly too until he wasn't traded and he hit that game winning (or tying) single against Minnesota? That play still gives me chills and I was one of the Yahoos that wanted him out of town and cheered like an idiot when he got that hit.

It's possible that this is something that blows over once 4PM hits tomorrow and he rides out the rest of this contract.

Edited by HomeBrew1901, 30 July 2008 - 07:24 PM.

[InstantKarmma]

Manny is talking out of his ass here. This is not a PR battle he is going to win.

No player could win this battle. It's the nature of baseball in the post free agency era. Players come - hopefully contribute while they're here - and then go. But the team and the fans stay.

Nobody is going to stop rooting for the Sox because of the front office, as long as they field a competitive team. But the fans will hold a grudge against a player (hello, Roger).

[Pearl Wilson]

Manny's idea of him playing in Iraq is sounding better and better.

[FelixMantilla]

What's not true about what Manny said?

[robt2156]

Mental peace has no price and I don't have peace here.

If Manny believes he can take this act elsewhere and not be criticized he's nuts.
I have been as guilty as anyone as far as making excuses for this guy but enough is enough, he has to go.

[SoxFanPJ]

NESN showing a graphic of the quote during the broadcast....evil smear campaign by ownership continues.

Edited for Sarcasm ...

Edited by SoxFanPJ, 30 July 2008 - 07:37 PM.

[genoasalami]

Manny's idea of him playing in Iraq is sounding better and better.

If Iraq had a professional league I am sure he would have no problem playing for the Mosul Militants as long as they signed him to a guaranteed $100 million 4 year deal.

Edit: geography lesson

Edited by genoasalami, 30 July 2008 - 07:45 PM.

[Pearl Wilson]

What's not true about what Manny said?

He has been paid well for his service. There is nothing undeserving about it.

[E5 Yaz]

NESN showing a graphic of the quote during the broadcast....evil smear campaign by ownership continues.

Well, of course, because they put the words in his mouth.

Or, were you being sarcastic. It's so hard to tell these days, and it's two hours until my meds

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Well, of course, because they put the words in his mouth.

Or, were you being sarcastic. It's so hard to tell these days, and it's two hours until my meds

What's sarcasm?

[Rasputin]

I'm tired of players saying stupid shit.

I'm tired of owners saying stupid shit.

I love watching Manny hit.

Manny's going to be in Florida tomorrow and I'm never going to see him hit for my team again and it's going to be because of stupid shit.

Fuck them all.

[Norm Siebern]

Here, I'll say it. I do not agree with the timing, but there is a significant amount of truth to this statement. Nomar was villified by a significant part of the press, fueled by "leaks" from the front office. There was a whisper campaign re. Pedro Martinez. Luchino was tabbed as the villain who greased the skids out of town. Derek Lowe was a drunk. Johnny Damon was a liar. Before the current regime we had Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn, Reggie Smith, Mo Vaughn, Carl Everett, Wade Boggs, Roger Clemens - how far back do you want to go? Earl Wilson? And now this.

Manny has put into words what the "Does it always have to end badly thread" introduces. Unfortunately, this is SOP re. stars in this organization.

Do Things Always Have to End Badly?

[Orange Julia]

There's not going to be a trade. After the deadline everyone will settle down and go back to normal.

[E5 Yaz]

I'm tired of players saying stupid shit.

I'm tired of owners saying stupid shit.

I love watching Manny hit.

Manny's going to be in Florida tomorrow and I'm never going to see him hit for my team again and it's going to be because of stupid shit.

Fuck them all.

Burma Shave

[gcapalbo]

Wow, that's a shocker-- can't say this is heresay, or rumor, or misquoted.

Then again, this is Manny talking (or reading threads here and repeating them) and he could change his mind.

On the other hand, this could be Boras advising Manny to shoot his way out of town.

Then again, they're just words, and if the deadline passes tomorrow and there's no deal-- and Henry, Theo, Lucky sit down with him and say soothing things...

Manny could be happy again.

Who knows!

Edited by gcapalbo, 30 July 2008 - 07:41 PM.

[Pumpsie]

If Iraq had a professional league I am sure he would have no problem playing for the Kabul Krashers as long as they signed him to a guaranteed $100 million 4 year deal.

That would be the Afghanistan League, of course.

Just so long as he doesn't end up with the Kandahar Taliban Yankees. I hate them.

[Rooster Crows]

Wow - that bothers, and saddens, me. I think Manny has periodically gotten a bum rap by the mediots and this site. At the same time, I'm no "Manny apologist" and know he has certainly contributed to the negative perception of his attitude/commitment (or whatever the current complaints are). Having said that, all I've read has has led me to conclude he works really hard to stay in shape and be the best at what he does, is very proud, is (or was) generally well-liked and respected by teammates (past and present), and stays and keeps others loose, letting things roll off his back that distract others. He regularly comes through in the clutch and gives any team he is on a much better shot at winning. For most of the first half of this year, as others have noted, he actually seemed unusually accessible to the press, jovial, happy to be in Boston - and I thought how great for us not to have that distraction this year. Manny being Manny can sometimes be quite charming.

Accordingly, I was sure most of this was the annual trade time posturing dance, fed and escalated by said mediots and others, and that come Friday, life would go back to normal. Although Manny IS getting older, and has real (IMO) knee problems, I believed this to be a good thing, and was looking forward to getting back down to the business of crushing TB and MFY.

I don't recall hearing such pointedly harsh and hurt words coming from Manny - nor Henry, for that matter. This is very bad (and not in a good way) - and I agree, absent some wildly believable reason for all this, there is no going back now. Shame on you Scott Boras. While Manny is an adult and must accept responsibility for his actions, I think he is being manipulated and this is a shitty way to end an era.

[Rocco Graziosa]

What's not true about what Manny said?

At the very least this:

"The Red Sox don't deserve a player like me," Ramirez said.

Thats fucking bullshit. Period.

[Norm Siebern]

At the very least this:
Thats fucking bullshit. Period.

On the whole, I agree with what Felix wrote, but in re. to that one comment, you are 100% correct, Rocco.

[genoasalami]

At the very least this:
Thats fucking bullshit. Period.

No organization is perfect, just as none of the companies we all work for are perfect. That being said, the Red sox have treated him well and the fans have treated him even better. He is just not right.

[sachmoney]

If Iraq had a professional league I am sure he would have no problem playing for the Mosul Militants as long as they signed him to a guaranteed $100 million 4 year deal.

Edit: geography lesson

With all the rich princes and oil in that area, I wouldn't be surprised if they could pay him.

Thats fucking bullshit. Period.

That's the quote that was the final straw for me. The Red Sox have been nothing but classy towards Manny and tried everything in their power to make him happy. He's getting paid $20 million a year and he continues to berate the FO like they're the bad guys. I'm not saying that the FO has treated him perfectly, but they've done what they could to appease him, and he's been just a petulant little child. It just grinds my gears.

EDIT: and to bring the fans into this? That's just stupid. The fans have been the people keeping you in Boston. I hope the door does hit you on the way out.

Edited by sachmoney, 30 July 2008 - 07:51 PM.

[Average Reds]

I don't recall hearing such pointedly harsh and hurt words coming from Manny - nor Henry, for that matter. This is very bad (and not in a good way) - and I agree, absent some wildly believable reason for all this, there is no going back now. Shame on you Scott Boras. While Manny is an adult and must accept responsibility for his actions, I think he is being manipulated and this is a shitty way to end an era.

It has been my working assumption since the entire Manny saga began ... again ... that Scott Boras was the driving force behind Manny's childish behavior. If only because he's the only one who benefits from the relationship ending without the options being excercised. Having said this, I think Boras got more than he bargained for when he wound Manny up. And I'm not sure there's anything he can do now except sit back and let things play out while trying to minimize the collateral damage to himself and his client.

As an aside, this must be what it feels like to be a Packer fan these days.....

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Here, I'll say it. I do not agree with the timing, but there is a significant amount of truth to this statement. Nomar was villified by a significant part of the press, fueled by "leaks" from the front office. There was a whisper campaign re. Pedro Martinez. Luchino was tabbed as the villain who greased the skids out of town. Derek Lowe was a drunk. Johnny Damon was a liar. Before the current regime we had Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn, Reggie Smith, Mo Vaughn, Carl Everett, Wade Boggs, Roger Clemens - how far back do you want to go? Earl Wilson? And now this.

Manny has put into words what the "Does it always have to end badly thread" introduces. Unfortunately, this is SOP re. stars in this organization.

Do Things Always Have to End Badly?

Earl Wilson? How about Babe Ruth?

[Pumpsie]

That's the quote that was the final straw for me. The Red Sox have been nothing but classy towards Manny and tried everything in their power to make him happy. He's getting paid $20 million a year and he continues to berate the FO like they're the bad guys. I'm not saying that the FO has treated him perfectly, but they've done what they could to appease him, and he's been just a petulant little child. It just grinds my gears.

So, let's get this straight. If you're a ballplayer who is in some kind of tough negotiation with your front office during a contract year and the front office starts leaking false stories to the press that make you look bad to the fans, that's "tried everything in their power to make him happy." That's straight pool to you. It takes two to tango like this and the front office is just as deep in it as Manny and Boras. It's like watching a couple of pigs wrestling in the mud. Neither of them is looking too good, that's why this has to end somehow tonight or tomorrow.

What's especially troublesome is that they did the very same thing to Nomar, as Manny indicates. And the local press is only too happy to oblige in the mudslinging.

[AZBlue]

The Red Sox don't deserve a player like me.

Well, Manny, I agree, but for different reasons than you have for saying that.

[pk1627]

I have been a Manny fan all 8 years, and I think its time he goes. It's no coincidence that the team is underperforming with all this junk. Anyone remember Pedro acting out in May 2004, and then the team goes into a dead zone?

The cardinal sin for a Red Sox player for me is to put his own needs before the team's. Pulling himself out of the lineup last minute at the start of the Yankee series? BS. Nomar put his money needs front and center in 2004, Pedro also, and now Manny's done it. He's right to lump himself in with those two. All 3 are prima donnas who failed to realize they were past their prime.

Not sure what the FO did except stop covering for the guy, and make a decision that he's not worth the $$$.

[Manny's Hammies]

Hey, Manny's right about one thing: the Red Sox don't deserve greedy, self-centered millionaires who put their contracts before the team they have it with.

Edit: AZ beat me to it.

Edited by Manny's Hammies, 30 July 2008 - 08:07 PM.

[jdubbya]

Manny began this year in Spring Training, a friendlier Manny...someone who enjoys talking to the media and really looking forward to the year. All of this was crap, he was doing his best to pump up his image to get his options picked up and maybe even get extended. Now we're in the middle of the season, and all his quotes and sessions with the media have completely backfired. I was a "Manny being Manny" guy for the past few years, but as he opened up this year I saw less of a quirky savant and more of a spoiled brat baseball player. Count me in as someone who can't get him out of the organization fast enough.

Manny believes he can get another $100m in his next contract, I'd love to see that.

I hope he finds an organization that deserves him, and a manager that will work with his quirks. He basically played DH for 2 months while Papi was coming back and he's breaking down physically in the last week?

I think all of this stuff is poisoning the clubhouse and the team will do the right thing. Adios.

[E5 Yaz]

So, let's get this straight. If you're a ballplayer who is in some kind of tough negotiation with your front office during a contract year

It's not his contract year.

[dcmissle]

Die by the leak, die by the leak, which is why I prefer the Foxborough approach almost every time.

I understand what the RS were trying to do here. Manny was blackmailing them, and the FO was backed into a corner. The only recourse was to underscore that Manny was behaving like an asshole. That does hurt because Manny will be looking for his final contract in a few months. They couldn't suspend him because it wouldn't stick. They couldn't remain quiet because everyone might think he is simply hurt. Think of their approach as the best of bad alternatives.

Still, it comes with a considerable cost. You devalue the player you are trying to trade. And when, as appears here, he doesn't gets the message and amps things up rather than toes the line, he's devalued more.

This may yet work out. If he isn't traded and takes the team down after the deadline, he may yearn for those option years like Nomar pines for that $70 MM he turned down. Logic tells you he should come around. But that might not happen.

Everyone would probably be better off today had they handled things quietly.

Edited by dcmissle, 30 July 2008 - 08:16 PM.

[Fratboy]

So, let's get this straight. If you're a ballplayer who is in some kind of tough negotiation with your front office during a contract year and the front office starts leaking false stories to the press that make you look bad to the fans, that's "tried everything in their power to make him happy."

What false stories? Prove they're false.

[Bernie Carbohydrate]

The Red Sox have been nothing but classy towards Manny and tried everything in their power to make him happy.

LL, is that you?

Manny's last "undeserving" line is excessive, but probably born of frustration. It is pretty clear that the front office leaks negative inside info (some of it false, none of it corroborated) when they feel it is in their best interest, and Manny has been subject to so many "an unnamed front office source" quotes that I don't blame him one bit for being pissed.

From Lobel's "there are things in the front office that are perceived" slur to Gammo's "Everyone in the clubhouse knows" to CHB's "He has an owner who has seen the light" it is clear to me that the "classy" Sox have a system in place when they want to move a superstar. I don't think it is necessary, but they've won two championships, so using pliant media members t trash guys on the way out must work on some level.

I just hate to see it, and I hate that Manny rose to the bait and is now going to be the villain.

[Pumpsie]

It's not his contract year.

Yes it is.

They're not picking up his option, in case you haven't noticed. Therefore, he's playing for his next contract now.

[Pumpsie]

What false stories? Prove they're false.

Prove that these anonymous quotes are true. Who said them? Who?

Nomar, Pedro, and now Manny. Connect the dots.

[Blacken]

Here, I'll say it. I do not agree with the timing, but there is a significant amount of truth to this statement. Nomar was villified by a significant part of the press, fueled by "leaks" from the front office. There was a whisper campaign re. Pedro Martinez. Luchino was tabbed as the villain who greased the skids out of town. Derek Lowe was a drunk. Johnny Damon was a liar. Before the current regime we had Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn, Reggie Smith, Mo Vaughn, Carl Everett, Wade Boggs, Roger Clemens - how far back do you want to go? Earl Wilson? And now this.

Manny has put into words what the "Does it always have to end badly thread" introduces. Unfortunately, this is SOP re. stars in this organization.

Do Things Always Have to End Badly?

This. Manny is in the wrong with his "they don't deserve me" statements, but this team has never had any problems shitting on a player they want gone. The players usually don't say anything about it, though, which is funny because it always ends terribly for them anyway.

[jdubbya]

Prove that these anonymous quotes are true. Who said them? Who?

Nomar, Pedro, and now Manny. Connect the dots.

The dots suggest the Red Sox have a decent idea of when a player has run his course with the organization with respect to his attitude and his playing skills. They got the most out of Pedro his last year, but decided with Nomar and possibly Manny that they can't even wait to the offseason to unload their malcontents. And if you don't see the parallels between Nomar sitting in the dugout in that Yankee game, as well as Manny deciding he wasn't ready for the Yankee opener this year, then you're delusional.