49 replies to this topic

[SoxScout]

....for Brandon Moss. Sean McAdam says the Sox have the offer if they want to accept it.

2008:
vs LHH: .208/.281/.325
vs RHH: .228/.297/.268

Table

G	IP		ERA	WHIP		FIP	xERA	ERC		BABIP	LOB%		BR/9	H/9	HR/9		K/9	BB/9	K/BB
46	55.7		1.78	1.19		3.11	2.55	2.47		0.261	84%		10.7	7.1	0.3		6.8	3.6	1.9

I'm not the biggest Moss or Mahay fan. Mahay is signed next year for $4m.

Do you do the deal?

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Meh. I'm pretty unimpressed with Mahay - a 37-year-old guy with a 95/59 K/BB ratio over the last two years. He keeps the ball in the ballpark and is lefthanded, which are plusses and obviously losing Moss isn't a big deal. But ultimately he seems more like an improvement on Lopez than a legit late game high leverage guy, which is what we are looking for. If we're just throwing shit against the wall, I'd rather keep Moss and give Chris Smith a shot and/or just trust that one of Masterson, Hansen, or Delcarmen finds a groove.

[RedOctober3829]

....for Brandon Moss. Sean McAdam says the Sox have the offer if they want to accept it.

2008:
vs LHH: .208/.281/.325
vs RHH: .228/.297/.268

Table

G	IP		ERA	WHIP		FIP	xERA	ERC		BABIP	LOB%		BR/9	H/9	HR/9		K/9	BB/9	K/BB
46	55.7		1.78	1.19		3.11	2.55	2.47		0.261	84%		10.7	7.1	0.3		6.8	3.6	1.9

I'm not the biggest Moss or Mahay fan. Mahay is signed next year for $4m.

Do you do the deal?

I would do it for the simple fact it is an improvement on Lopez and also he is signed for next year. He is having success against both lefties and righties so he could give more than just a situational lefty. He is also a much better candidate than Doug Brocail. He is what the FO is looking for: veteran help.

[Savin Hillbilly]

I dunno. He's having a nice year, but he's 37 years old, his lifetime numbers in Fenway are blah, with too many HR (understandably, since he's a left-handed flyball pitcher), and his current FIP-ERA suggests that the other shoe may be dropping soon.

Is he an improvement over Lopez? Probably. Is he a big enough or certain enough improvement to give up Moss for? I am skeptical.

Of course a lot depends on whether we're able to trade Manny and what we're able to get for him.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Eh, I guess he's better than Lopez but I wouldn't want to pay him $4M next year or lose Moss, who is pretty important depth at this point. Mahay has been really good for the past three years, I guess I just don't really see a LH reliever as being that vital right now.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Eh, I guess he's better than Lopez but I wouldn't want to pay him $4M next year or lose Moss, who is pretty important depth at this point. Mahay has been really good for the past three years, I guess I just don't really see a LH reliever as being that vital right now.

I don't know about the depth thing. The Sox already have Drew, Ellsbury, Coco, Carter, Van Every, and Daeges in AA or higher -- plus there's Reddick as well, although there's no way he should be rushed when Daeges has such a more advanced approach and better command of the strike zone.

How many more LHH outfielders does the system need? One from Florida?

[CaptainLaddie]

Moss doesn't really excite me (never has), so I'm on board for this deal.

[rembrat]

If you are going to trade Moss for a LHP it should be Ohman.

[SoxScout]

To put this deal in perspective, I just talked to someone with the O's and the Red Sox turned down Sherrill for Lowrie.

[Razor Shines]

From a pure value standpoint, the Royals would be on the "winning" end of this deal. But, Moss has a ceiling in Boston and would be more valuable to KC, and there are similar bats available in Pawtucket if the Sox need to grab one.

Yeah, I'd pull the trigger. I'd be happy for Moss, going to a place where he'd get playing time.

Edited by Razor Shines, 30 July 2008 - 03:50 PM.

[CaptainLaddie]

To put this deal in perspective, I just talked to someone with the O's and the Red Sox turned down Sherrill for Lowrie.

I'm not shocked. Ignoring Sherill's saves, he's got a 4.23 ERA, and 1.455 WHIP. Mahay is 1.78 ERA and 1.186 WHIP. He's also got a better walk rate, although a lower K rate.

[E5 Yaz]

To put this deal in perspective, I just talked to someone with the O's and the Red Sox turned down Sherrill for Lowrie.

Straight up?

[Rudy Pemberton]

OK, you guys have convinced me...I'm on board with this one.

[86spike]

I would prefer Ohman, but I'd take Mahay over Brocail.

I would shed no tears over sending Moss. Fair price.

[SoxScout]

Straight up?

That is what I was told, yes. And even given the ERA and WHIP above, apparently he is the pitcher that the Red Sox are most intrigued with.

Edited by SoxScout, 30 July 2008 - 03:52 PM.

[jacklamabe65]

I wouldn't because I actually think this is turning into a 2006 year, given the injuries, controversies, and kharma. I would keep Moss and all of our young players because we will need them in the future.

[Buck Showalter]

When I see Mahay I think Rheal Cormier.

I liked Cormier.

For Moss?

Do it.

[CaptainLaddie]

I wouldn't because I actually think this is turning into a 2006 year, given the injuries, controversies, and kharma. I would keep Moss and all of our young players because we will need them in the future.

We have 3 guys in AAA alone that could probably do exactly what Moss is doing. He's replaceable.

[E5 Yaz]

That is what I was told, yes. And even given the ERA and WHIP above, apparently he is the pitcher that the Red Sox are most intrigued with.

That ASG work must have really sold Tito on Sherrill

[86spike]

I wouldn't because I actually think this is turning into a 2006 year, given the injuries, controversies, and kharma. I would keep Moss and all of our young players because we will need them in the future.

Moss is a 6th OFer on this team. A 5th at best. Moss=Fungible.

[templeUsox]

Moss is a 6th OFer on this team. A 5th at best. Moss=Fungible.

Really? Who would be a suitable 4th outfielder for this team? Personally, I think giving up a good player with 5 more years of service for a 37-year old reliever is nuts.

[TomRicardo]

....for Brandon Moss. Sean McAdam says the Sox have the offer if they want to accept it.

Do you do the deal?

I don't understand why there is any hestiation on the Red Sox part. It is not a long trip for Hansen back to Pawtucket.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I wouldn't because I actually think this is turning into a 2006 year, given the injuries, controversies, and kharma. I would keep Moss and all of our young players because we will need them in the future.

The Sox may miss the playoffs, but this team's pitching is far superior to that of the '06 team. As long as the Sox staff stays intact, I like their chances.

[HomeBrew1901]

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat, mainly because I don't see Moss becoming the next David Murphy. He's never going to be a permanent solution on this team and it seems most of putting together a good bullpen is throwing crap against the wall and seeing what sticks so I don't have a problem with Mahay.

Plus Mahay can't possibly suck as bad as Gagne. Worst case scenario they eat 4MM next year, best case they find a reliable 8th inning set up arm.

[TomRicardo]

Really? Who would be a suitable 4th outfielder for this team? Personally, I think giving up a good player with 5 more years of service for a 37-year old reliever is nuts.

Really because I would Jon Van Every up and not even think about it. Brandon Moss has age but he is never going to be a consistent player in Boston. Van Every plays a better center.

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Alright, I've changed my mind. You hang on to this offer and pull the trigger if nothing else materializes because, at the end of the day, Moss simply doesn't have a lot of value to the Red Sox now or in the future and Mahay at the very least is an improvement on Lopez. I just don't want him slotted in automatically before Paps and Oki because I don't think he's that guy and I'd rather give MDC and Masterson some more chances to show they can be that guy.

[templeUsox]

Really because I would Jon Van Every up and not even think about it. Brandon Moss has age but he is never going to be a consistent player in Boston. Van Every plays a better center.

This is 28-year old 40% K-rate in Triple-A Jonathan Van Every you're talking about? For some reason I don't think those numbers he's putting up will translate in the majors.

[TomRicardo]

This is 28-year old 40% K-rate in Triple-A Jonathan Van Every you're talking about? For some reason I don't think those numbers he's putting up will translate in the majors.

We are talking about a fifth OF, how many ABs are we talking about? If anything, he will have appearances on the field than ABs.

[Harry Agganis]

think this one is a no brainer. Mahay is going pretty good at the moment also.

[ConigsCorner]

Moss for Mahay is a no-brainer. A few have mentioned that Mahay is 37-years-old, but this is pretty irrelevant for a reliever, especially a lefty. To compare, Timlin, who's been pretty serviceable during his tenure in Boston, turned 37 during spring training in his first year with the Sox. Mahay turned 37 a month ago and he's pitched only 475 innings during his career. His lifetime BAA is .239 and his K/9 is 7.51....yeah his K/BB could be better, 1.73, but to acquire him for Moss? Sign me up right now.

Edited by ConigsCorner, 30 July 2008 - 06:30 PM.

[Harry Hooper]

Speaking as someone who believed Murphy would be a productive player in the bigs, I think Moss will be a better player than Murphy. In fact , I wish Moss was the starting RF in Fenway with Drew in CF right now (Coco on the bench and Ellsbury in AAA). I have no desire to see Coco in CF and Ellsbury in RF on a steady basis if Drew goes on the DL, so I'd hate to see Moss traded for the likes of Mahay.

[Jeff Van GULLY]

Moss doesn't really excite me (never has), so I'm on board for this deal.

Change it to Corsaletti and make it a deal.

[SoxScout]

Veteran reliever Ron Mahay seems to go through this every year as the trading deadline approaches. Once again, he finds his name swirling through the rumor mill.

Will the phone ring or not before the 3 p.m. deadline for non-waiver deals?

“It’s just speculation until it actually happens,” Mahay said. “It’s all talk right now. They have my phone number. I’m going to spend the day with my family and honestly hope it doesn’t ring. I don’t want to go anywhere.”

The Phillies continue to show interest in Mahay, although both clubs have spiked rumors of a deal for minor-league infielder Jason Donald.

Another rumor links Mahay to the Red Sox for outfielder/first baseman Brandon Moss.

“As far as I know,” manager Trey Hillman said, “there’s not anybody willing to pay what should be paid for him. He’s a valuable asset and, obviously, he’s not someone I want us to lose.”

Mahay lowered his ERA to 1.75 by working one scoreless inning in Wednesday’s 4-3 victory over the A’s in 10 innings.

http://www.kansascit...ory/727881.html

[sachmoney]

I like him better than Grabow...

Mahay with Runners

AND

Mahay in Leverage situations.

I think his numbers look good, and considering the low cost, it's a no brainer. This bullpen is depressing. It's good that the offense is struggling because it's hiding how bad our bullpen is in situations where we've led (16 blown saves). Imagine if we'd won half of those games. They blew 13 all last season.

[Spacemans Bong]

I'd go for this. I'm a little higher on Moss than him being a 6th OF, but he'll be an average MLBer at best, and the Red Sox shouldn't really be concerned about him, especially since he doesn't bring one skill that makes him stand out (not an amazing defender, or got great power, or a walk machine). There's going to be plenty of 4th OFs, or utility OF/1Bs out there. The Royals are actually being pretty reasonable here. Mahay's been a good reliever five of the last seven seasons. He's not a true 2 ERA guy, but he's a lefty who isn't a LOOGY. Valuable, and I'm of the opinion the Sox really can't wait to see if Justin Masterson or someone else is the awesome. Get a bunch of good relievers, kids and vets like Mahay, and see what sticks.

[someoneanywhere]

I don't. Partly because I think, with Shaun, that too much has to go right from here on out -- and too much has to go wrong with other contenders -- for the Red Sox to have a reasonable chance to repeat. By now, we ought to be thinking championships only; getting to the playoffs is not enough or even (as it is for some other contenders) a goal to strive for in and of itself. If anything seems evident over the past homestand, it is that this team is not good enough to repeat. Losing 7 straight to the Angels, especially -- a team we've owned for the last few years -- ought to be a clear indicator of where this team is in 2008.

If that alone is not evidence, the road record is. Champions win on the road. This team cannot do that consistently.

So those are my main reasons. I do not want a 37-year-old reliever for a prospect that is clearly impressive. (I find it striking that none of the posts above, in offering valuations of Moss, bother to look at why KC would ask for him.)

I think, too, that any deal needs to be looked at in the context of the Manny deal and any other deal, not as an isolated proposition. It seems obvious that the FO is working a "contend now but be prudent for the future" angle at the deadline, which I think is more evidence of the brainpower on Yawkey Way. If Manny leaves, this will be a new era. You build and re-mold and re-tool for that new era, not for 2008. Mahay is a 2008 answer only. Moss may not have a future in Boston, or he may, but he has more value than what KC is offering.

[TomRicardo]

So those are my main reasons. I do not want a 37-year-old reliever for a prospect that is clearly impressive. (I find it striking that none of the posts above, in offering valuations of Moss, bother to look at why KC would ask for him.)

It is probably because no one else is making any substantial offerings and Moss could be a starter in KC. He is not going to start in Boston unless there are injuries. He really doesn't have an outstanding talent set. He is less valuable than David Murphy. At least Murphy could play CF.

[Spacemans Bong]

KC wants Moss because they suck, and need cost-controlled youngsters with any MLB talent and because relievers aren't worth much. Despite the spastic nature of the trade deadline, the fact is quality relievers haven't gotten much. Marte wasn't why the Yankees put in Tabata, and Tabata's a loser anyway. Rauch got Bonifacio.

So those are my main reasons. I do not want a 37-year-old reliever for a prospect that is clearly impressive. (I find it striking that none of the posts above, in offering valuations of Moss, bother to look at why KC would ask for him.)

I think, too, that any deal needs to be looked at in the context of the Manny deal and any other deal, not as an isolated proposition. It seems obvious that the FO is working a "contend now but be prudent for the future" angle at the deadline, which I think is more evidence of the brainpower on Yawkey Way. If Manny leaves, this will be a new era. You build and re-mold and re-tool for that new era, not for 2008. Mahay is a 2008 answer only. Moss may not have a future in Boston, or he may, but he has more value than what KC is offering.

Much of this is wrong. First off, Moss is not an especially impressive prospect. SoxProspects ranks him 9th, and he doesn't even make Baseball America's top 10. He's 13th on John Sickels's list as a C+ prospect. He's got so-so power, so-so discpline, so-so average and so-so defense. That doesn't make him a bad player, but who can he take a job from? He's not better than Drew, he's not better than Youkilis. He can't play center field, and if he's in left right now then the outfield offense would be too weak to sustain the team. He fits KC because they need average, but if he's any more than a bench player for the Sox the team isn't winning anything.

And Mahay is signed through 2009, so he's not a rental.

[Spacemans Bong]

Another thing is that when criticizing the team's performance on the road is that all of baseball has struggled on the road this year.

The road records for the top 8 teams in the AL (everybody with a legitimate shot at the playoffs), by overall record:

Anaheim: 36-19
Tampa: 23-28
Chicago: 25-30
Red Sox: 24-32
Minnesota: 23-28
Yankees: 25-24
Texas: 29-30
Detroit: 26-30

So the Red Sox don't have a good road record but who does? 24-32 isn't great, but it's not much worse than most teams. The only team with a good road record is Anaheim, who are a fluke team playing 8 games above their pythag (by comparison the Sox are 2 games under theirs).

If you really want to go after the Sox, note that they've played 6 home games against good teams this past week and have lost 5 of them. If they can't play on the road, no big deal in the 2008 American League. If they fail at home, forget it.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 31 July 2008 - 07:49 AM.

[Blacken]

Moss is a bog-standard average player; there are at least a couple more just like him or better in the Sox farm system. Right now, the Sox need seasoned arms. Pull the trigger.

[86spike]

holy christ can we at least do this deal today?

[Return of the Dewey]

holy christ can we at least do this deal today?

I fear this as well...in '05 and '06 it seemed that the Sox were pre-occupied with the BIG, complex trades, and didn't address many of the team's needs.

[86spike]

If Theo doesn't add something to this bullpen today that is better than Hansen or Lopez, I'm going to be pretty pissed.

[WayneHousieHOF]

If Theo doesn't add something to this bullpen today that is better than Hansen or Lopez, I'm going to be pretty pissed.

This is the most frustrating part of the day. The more and more the hours tick away, the more and more it looks like the Sox won't make any moves today, which should send a message that they don't think the team is even close to making a run at the WS.

[Blacken]

This is the most frustrating part of the day. The more and more the hours tick away, the more and more it looks like the Sox won't make any moves today, which should send a message that they don't think the team is even close to making a run at the WS.

Do you think they can? Whether or not they ditch Manny, it's still a largely punchless team with bats that have gone all noodly and shit relief pitching (unless Okajima finds his winner pants again or Theo finds some magic relief solution).

I hate saying it, I honestly do, but I don't think this team is it.

[JimD]

Do you think they can? Whether or not they ditch Manny, it's still a largely punchless team with bats that have gone all noodly and shit relief pitching (unless Okajima finds his winner pants again or Theo finds some magic relief solution).

I hate saying it, I honestly do, but I don't think this team is it.

I've been thinking the same thing, which is why I don't want to see them trade away premium prospects for players who aren't going to make that big of a difference.

[WayneHousieHOF]

Do you think they can? Whether or not they ditch Manny, it's still a largely punchless team with bats that have gone all noodly and shit relief pitching (unless Okajima finds his winner pants again or Theo finds some magic relief solution).

I hate saying it, I honestly do, but I don't think this team is it.

Whether I think they can and whether the front office thinks they can are two different things. From all appearances, the Red Sox failed to make a move today. Any move. Not even one small pen upgrade. This speaks volumes to what the organization thinks of this team.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Whether I think they can and whether the front office thinks they can are two different things. From all appearances, the Red Sox failed to make a move today. Any move. Not even one small pen upgrade. This speaks volumes to what the organization thinks of this team.

If the FO thought this team wasn't cut out for a playoff run, they probably would have been open to taking a chance on a guy like Hermida. That they were pushing for Bay is a very clear indication that they think the team can make a post season run.