20 replies to this topic

[Robinson Checo]

And Boston could be joining the Los Angeles Dodgers in talks for Wilson.

from The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Beat writer Dejean Kovecevic does not usually specualte about trades, but instead reports what he has heard from club officials. If there is substance to this, I am sure the Pirates want Lowrie or a Bowden/ Masterson.

EDIT: same article says Sox are interested in left handed relief pitcher John Grabow.

Edited by Robinson Checo, 29 July 2008 - 09:27 AM.

[CaptainLaddie]

from The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Beat writer Dejean Kovecevic does not usually specualte about trades, but instead reports what he has heard from club officials. If there is substance to this, I am sure the Pirates want Lowrie or a Bowden/ Masterson.

EDIT: same article says Sox are interested in left handed relief pitcher John Grabow.

Why Jack Wilson?
Career 269/312/375 hitter - he does have a slick slick glove (+41 over the last three seasons) - but I don't see why they'd want to pay him 6.73M (annual average salary) for the rest of this year and next.

Unless Lugo is getting traded in the deal as well, I don't see it.

[Foulkey Reese]

I realize that everything is just a rumor at this point. But between this and the Tejada rumor it seems like they don't have a ton of faith in Jed Lowrie being able to handle SS until Lugo comes back.

Unless of course they plan on moving him in the next few days.....

[wibi]

Why Jack Wilson?
Career 269/312/375 hitter - he does have a slick slick glove (+41 over the last three seasons) - but I don't see why they'd want to pay him 6.73M (annual average salary) for the rest of this year and next.

Unless Lugo is getting traded in the deal as well, I don't see it.

Pretty sure Lugo has to be off the DL before he can be moved which is going to make it hard to move him unless he is coming of the DL in the next 48 hours

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I realize that everything is just a rumor at this point. But between this and the Tejada rumor it seems like they don't have a ton of faith in Jed Lowrie being able to handle SS until Lugo comes back.

Unless of course they plan on moving him in the next few days.....

Or they are looking to upgrade defense at the position by having a Wilson type (or John McDonald) replace Cora.

[Quintanariffic]

Or they are looking to upgrade defense at the position by having a Wilson type (or John McDonald) replace Cora.

For almost $7MM/yr? That's hard for me to imagine.

I'm with Foulkey - this doesn't bode well for Lowrie, IMO. That's disappointing, b/c while he'll never be a star, he can clearly handle SS in my view and I love his approach at the plate.

[Trautwein's Degree]

I'm with Foulkey - this doesn't bode well for Lowrie, IMO. That's disappointing, b/c while he'll never be a star, he can clearly handle SS in my view and I love his approach at the plate.

I think these rumors point to us being surprised at the deadline ala 2004. Theo is clearly working the phone lines and is clearly being creative.

Maybe those talks with the Pirates involve Bay and maybe the talks with the Astros involve someone like Berkman. Either way, I expect to be surprised if something major doesn't happen before the deadline.

[amarshal2]

I realize that everything is just a rumor at this point. But between this and the Tejada rumor it seems like they don't have a ton of faith in Jed Lowrie being able to handle SS until Lugo comes back.

Unless of course they plan on moving him in the next few days.....

I think they're just being realistic. This is a pennant race and Lowrie is a rookie. I like his long-term prospects as an above average regular but I like Jacoby Ellsbury's too and look how he's struggling. The Red Sox don't put the unrealistic expectations on young players we're prone to around here (and they also don't change their minds when a guy experiences a couple months of failure). We may have been ready to hand Ellsbury or Buchholz full-time gigs but the Sox kept Crisp and re-signed/signed Schilling/Colon. This follows right along with their M.O.

As to Jack Wilson, I can't speak to his defensive abilities (don't remember the last time I saw a Pitt game) but looking at his career vitals and contract makes me wonder what Pitt would chip in to be rid of his contract more than the other way around. I don't think you'll see a legit prospect traded for that guy.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Here's some of the article linked by RC:

Next in line for most likely among the Pirates to go: John Grabow.

Four teams -- the Tampa Bay Rays, St. Louis Cardinals, Philadelphia Phillies, Boston Red Sox and a newcomer, the Los Angeles Angels -- are known to have inquired about trading for him in advance of the Thursday deadline...[snip]...

Calls also continued to come on Jason Bay and Jack Wilson, with the usual suitors on those fronts and a couple new twists: Tampa Bay appears to have backed away from Bay, looking instead to long-injured Rocco Baldelli's return to solve its corner outfield issues. And Boston could be joining the Los Angeles Dodgers in talks for Wilson.

Odd's Blood! I'd sacrifice one eye to the world tree, if that means a three-way deal with the Sox getting Bay + Wilson, the Dodgers getting Manny + Lugo + Grabow, and the Bucs getting LaRoche + Lowrie + 3 prospects drawn from the combined LAD/BOS systems.

Edited by Buzzkill Pauley, 29 July 2008 - 10:07 AM.

[Quintanariffic]

Here's some of the article linked by RC:
Odd's Blood! I'd sacrifice one eye to the world tree, if that means a three-way deal with the Sox getting Bay + Wilson, the Dodgers getting Manny + Lugo + Grabow, and the Bucs getting LaRoche + Lowrie + 3 prospects drawn from the combined LAD/BOS systems.

So you'd give up an eye for Manny + Lugo + Lowrie + a prospect or two for Jason Bay and Jack Wilson?

Can I get in on your fantasy league next year? That's an awful deal for the Red Sox. They'd have to add a prospect for the pleasure of downgrading at both LF and SS.

[Foulkey Reese]

From lurker bosockboy

It seems pretty easy to connect the dots on these shortstop rumors. Baltimore is looking for an MLB ready shortstop in exchange for Sherrill. We go get a shortstop so we can send Lowrie to Baltimore for Sherrill.

Lowrie has been showcased pretty nicely and has played solid defense since taking over; maybe its time to move him before his flaws start showing.

[amarshal2]

So you'd give up an eye for Manny + Lugo + Lowrie + a prospect or two for Jason Bay and Jack Wilson?

Can I get in on your fantasy league next year? That's an awful deal for the Red Sox. They'd have to add a prospect for the pleasure of downgrading at both LF and SS.

Agreed. If you consider Bay and Manny about equal players then you'd essentially be trading Lowrie+ for Jack Wilson. Yikes!

[Pumpsie]

Sure looks like they're thinking of trading Lowrie. Lowrie's best position may be second base and we already have a guy there for a while. Lowrie can play short but he'll never be great at it. Also looks like they're trying not to deal Masterson or Bowden if they can help it. Can't say I disagree. Lowrie really is a bit of a fifth wheel on this roster. Too good to remain at AAA any longer, too young to back up for an extended period because it would retard his development. The Pirates would be a good fit for him. He could play just about every day there and contribute. And he'll be inexpensive for a while. That's worth something to the Pirates.

[Quintanariffic]

Agreed. If you consider Bay and Manny about equal players then you'd essentially be trading Lowrie+ for Jack Wilson. Yikes!

Actually, it would be Lowrie, Lugo plus a prospect for Jack Wilson.

FWIW, I think bosockboys speculation above makes the most sense of all with all these SS rumors floating around.

[OCD SS]

I would hate to see lowrie go so the sox can pay big dollars for an all glove SS. The other possibility (that also connects to the Tejada rumor) is that the Sox are trying to find LAD a SS (since they've been looking for one) to package in a Manny trade.

[Wade Boggs Hair]

From lurker bosockboy

Without getting too far off-topic, I hope this rumor is false. Sherrill is 31, has a 1.397 WHIP and allows a .778 OPS to RHBs. If the Sox are going to trade Lowrie, I would think his bat, youth and acceptable glove at a noodle bat position would make him worth more than George Sherrill.

Sorry, back to Jack Wilson.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

So you'd give up an eye for Manny + Lugo + Lowrie + a prospect or two for Jason Bay and Jack Wilson?

Can I get in on your fantasy league next year? That's an awful deal for the Red Sox. They'd have to add a prospect for the pleasure of downgrading at both LF and SS.

In a fantasy world, I agree it's a terrible trade because you win or lose entirely from a bean-counting perspective -- but I disagree that it's all that bad in the real world. Even though there would still be the C-SS-CF black hole of suck in the lineup to worry about.

-- Manny ($20M, 900 OPS) + Lugo ($9.5M, 650 OPS) + Lowrie (min$, MLE~750 OPS) + ?~Hansen ($1M, could be closer in NLC)

for

-- Bay ($7.5M, 900 OPS) + Wilson ($7.25M, 650 OPS) + improved left-side defense + no more '08 clubhouse drama + additional $15M off books for FA acquisition after '08 (Sabathia, Sheets, Teixeira) + retained flexibility to resign current LF or sign Holliday after '09

You bet I would do that. But not if all that determined success was compiling stats. Yeah, personally I'd love the Sox hold onto Lowrie -- he brings a great skill set at the plate for a SS, switch-hits, is cheap, and seems pretty reliable in the field. But if this deal was on the table, I'd pull the trigger, because it's better to lose Lowrie than Masterson or Buchholz, even under the assumption you could pick up a FA starter in the offseason.

Hell, if I had everything my way, I'd send Lugo + $$ to the Bucs, send Cora to LAD to fill in, and retain Lowrie to back-up Pedroia and Wilson. Then I'd commit 100% to signing Sheets + Byrd in the offseason, and have one spare prospect SP remaining between Masterson and Buchholz to package in trade for Saltalamacchia. Plus I'd like a pony.

Sadly, I don't think this makes as much sense for the Pirates, though...because a LaRoche/Sanchez/Lowrie/LaRoche infield would be mighty darn good. Like a lot of other posters, I get a very 2004 vibe coming off this team this year, right down to the June/July malaise and "I can't believe we had to include Matt Murton to close that deal".

[edited to make more sense]

Edited by Buzzkill Pauley, 29 July 2008 - 11:45 AM.

[amarshal2]

-- Manny ($20M, 900 OPS) + Lugo ($9.5M, 650 OPS) + Lowrie (min$, MLE~750 OPS) + ?~Hansen ($1M, could be closer in NLC)

for

-- Bay ($7.5M, 900 OPS) + Wilson ($7.25M, 650 OPS) + improved left-side defense + no more '08 clubhouse drama + additional $15M off books for FA acquisition after '08 (Sabathia, Sheets, Teixeira) + retained flexibility to resign current LF or sign Holliday after '09

Not exactly.

2009 salaries:
Lugo: ($9M)
Lowrie: (~$0.5M)
Bay: $7.5M
Wilson: $7.85M (I included the buyout)
Total: +$5.85M

Cot's

You can't argue that we should subtract Manny's option as a selling point for your proposal.

To be fair earlier, I forgot about Bay's 2009 deal and was thinking more about the 2008 team. I think Lowrie is worth more what I compute to equal one year of Bay at below market rate but at least it's arguable.

Edited by amarshal2, 29 July 2008 - 12:06 PM.

[OCD SS]

At the risk of turning this into a Jed Lowrie thread, I don't see how Jed really fits as a utility player. He's not someone that you use as a defensive replacement. The Sox could keep Lowrie as an offensive SS and call up A Diaz as a defensive replacement/ utility IFer for virtually no cost. Unless Lugo goes, getting Wilson saddels the Sox with another large contract for am impotent bat.