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Theo willing to trade Manny


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#1 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:13 PM

This probably deserves its own thread. According to McCarver on the Fox telecast, Theo has said that if Manny is willing to waive his no-trade clause, they'd be willing to listen to offers.

Here we go...

#2 TheYellowDart5


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:18 PM

So phrased another way: If Manny would like to be traded, the FO will try to accommodate his wish.

This would be a story if Epstein had said, "We want to trade Manny, but he needs to waive his no-trade clause first," or if Manny had said, "I want out, and the front office needs to make that happen."

As is, why is this a big deal? Epstein's simply saying that he'd be willing to trade Manny -- which isn't exactly a new sentiment -- if Manny wants out. I see nothing controversial or incendiary about that statement.

#3 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:22 PM

The "...and you can say this on the air" is what got me, I guess. In light of the recent circus surrounding Manny, and the deadline being five days away, a public proclamation such as this, on national tv no less, is at least interesting.

#4 TheYellowDart5


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:25 PM

The "...and you can say this on the air" is what got me, I guess. In light of the recent circus surrounding Manny, and the deadline being five days away, a public proclamation such as this, on national tv no less, is at least interesting.

It's odd to make a public statement like that, unless Epstein thinks that making the FO's intentions fully known will somehow tamp down speculation about Manny. That said, with only five days til the trading deadline, I doubt the FO can swing a Manny trade.

#5 Rocco Graziosa


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:28 PM

So phrased another way: If Manny would like to be traded, the FO will try to accommodate his wish.

This would be a story if Epstein had said, "We want to trade Manny, but he needs to waive his no-trade clause first," or if Manny had said, "I want out, and the front office needs to make that happen."

As is, why is this a big deal? Epstein's simply saying that he'd be willing to trade Manny -- which isn't exactly a new sentiment -- if Manny wants out. I see nothing controversial or incendiary about that statement.



I disagree. The general manager of the club made a point to tell the broadcasters of a national telecast that if Ramirez was willing to drop his no trade clause he would try and trade him. To be honest it almost sounded like a message to the player. If I was to guess, this is the beginning of the end for Ramirez in a Boston Red Sox uniform.

The bigger questions......

Would Ramirez drop the no trade clause?

Would there be interest in Ramirez to the point where the Sox could benefit from moving him?

Is there a team out there that would pick up his options, thus making a trade much more likely?

#6 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:28 PM

So phrased another way: If Manny would like to be traded, the FO will try to accommodate his wish.

This would be a story if Epstein had said, "We want to trade Manny, but he needs to waive his no-trade clause first," or if Manny had said, "I want out, and the front office needs to make that happen."

As is, why is this a big deal? Epstein's simply saying that he'd be willing to trade Manny -- which isn't exactly a new sentiment -- if Manny wants out. I see nothing controversial or incendiary about that statement.

OK, Officer Barbrady.

The timing of the statement is what causes the alarm. One day after Mannygate Theo is on the record talking to McCarver about trading him? Before, Theo was talking about being open to trade because Manny was interested in being traded. That's been a point of discussion that's been absent for the past 2 years or longer. Now that it's being raised again can't be dismissed as just business as usual.

It doesn't mean Manny is definitely getting traded, time to panic, blah blah, but I think you have to assume at this point that ownership and management are pissed, definitely pissed.

#7 Pandemonium67

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:29 PM

This would be a story if Epstein had said, "We want to trade Manny, but he needs to waive his no-trade clause first,"


In GM speak, I think this is exactly what Theo said, particularly when he told them they could say it on national TV.

#8 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:36 PM

At this point, it really doesn't appear that Manny will be coming back for 2009, so they'd probably be wise to try to get something for him, assuming they could also reel in someone like Adam Dunn, Brian Giles, or Raul Ibanez (or Bonds) to play LF for the rest of the season.

Edited by Corsi Combover, 26 July 2008 - 03:54 PM.


#9 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:51 PM

At this point, it really doesn't appear that Manny will be coming back for 2009, so they'd probably be wise to try to get something for him, assuming they could also real in someone like Adam Dunn, Brian Giles, or Raul Ibanez (or Bonds) to play LF for the rest of the season.

Bonds? See you on page 20.

#10 exGloucester

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:58 PM

Theo's remark seems pretty unprofessional to me.

What's he gaining by feeding this to the Fox announcers that he couldn't accomplish in some other way that is more discrete?

He doesn't need a broadcast network to reach other GMs, or his player.

What he gains by this is nothing more than a little spiteful satisfaction in telling the world he wouldn't mind being rid of Manny. A public announcement such as that does not help Manny's performance, and it doesn't help the team's performance. It doesn't help anything.

Thanks for the BS, Theo, way to rise above it all and behave like a pro.

#11 Bowlerman9


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 04:10 PM

Theo's remark seems pretty unprofessional to me.

What's he gaining by feeding this to the Fox announcers that he couldn't accomplish in some other way that is more discrete?

He doesn't need a broadcast network to reach other GMs, or his player.

What he gains by this is nothing more than a little spiteful satisfaction in telling the world he wouldn't mind being rid of Manny. A public announcement such as that does not help Manny's performance, and it doesn't help the team's performance. It doesn't help anything.

Thanks for the BS, Theo, way to rise above it all and behave like a pro.


Tell Peter Gammons, professional. Tell Tim McCarver, unprofessional.

Theo = unprofessional. Other 29 GMs = professional.

Gotchya.

#12 URI


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 04:10 PM

Theo's remark seems pretty unprofessional to me.

What's he gaining by feeding this to the Fox announcers that he couldn't accomplish in some other way that is more discrete?

He doesn't need a broadcast network to reach other GMs, or his player.

What he gains by this is nothing more than a little spiteful satisfaction in telling the world he wouldn't mind being rid of Manny. A public announcement such as that does not help Manny's performance, and it doesn't help the team's performance. It doesn't help anything.

Thanks for the BS, Theo, way to rise above it all and behave like a pro.


So when asked if Manny Ramirez, who right now is in a pretty public spat with the Red Sox, would be traded, Theo said that it was a possibility if Manny wanted it.

What's wrong with that? This is something that happens all the time with other GM's/reporters.

#13 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 26 July 2008 - 04:16 PM

Is it also possible that the Sox were so public with Manny's MRI last night in an effort to prove to other teams that he actually is healthy?

#14 Manny's Hammies

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 04:38 PM

I heard this on air and didn't think this was unintentional. It def. seemed like Theo was sending a message. It does seem a bit peculiar, tho.

I thought Rosenthal's point that Manny's agent put him in a weird situation w/ the options by making him play in a contract year three years in a row was interesting.

#15 jodyreeddudley78

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 04:41 PM

The bigger questions......

1. Would Ramirez drop the no trade clause?

2. Would there be interest in Ramirez to the point where the Sox could benefit from moving him?

3. Is there a team out there that would pick up his options, thus making a trade much more likely?


I think these are the biggest points (I added #s). The way I see it.....

1. See #3.

2. There will be interest, but I think it will be somewhat tepid. I assume the Mets will be interested, as Manny addresses two needs (kind of): a corner outfielder (albeit a poor one), and a big bat to plug into the middle of the line up. The problem, of course, will be the money. The Mets can obviously afford Manny, but I think the problem will be......

3. I think the main reason for Manny to waive his no trade clause is if he is assured that his option will be picked up. This would be an awfully large commitment by a team. I honestly don't know the rules for transactions such as this (I assume there is some sort of window for discussions).

The thing is.... I don't see the Mets (the only team I can think of off the top of my head with the financial capability and need. Maybe Dodgers or Angels?) offering enough in a trade. Unless you are talking a three way trade. And even then, what would the Mets have to offer the third team? Their system is pretty weak at this point, and I assume that most teams would start at either Pelfrey or Reyes as the starting point, which will never happen. Have I ever mentioned that I hate trade speculation?

My point is this: I would be shocked if Manny is off of the team in a week.

#16 exGloucester

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 05:48 PM

------------
So when asked if Manny Ramirez, who right now is in a pretty public spat with the Red Sox, would be traded, Theo said that it was a possibility if Manny wanted it.

What's wrong with that? This is something that happens all the time with other GM's/reporters.
------------

Has Manny said publicly that he wants to be traded? If so, I think Theo's remark would be appropriate.

If not, I think it's an unnecessary public statement because I think it does nobody any good. If anything, it puts some additional stress on Manny, which I doubt does him any good, and it puts an additional layer of distraction on the rest of the players, which probably doesnt help them much either. I just don't see a good or useful result of that statement, and I do always see the value of public discretion with the team's thinking on moving players.

And to the extent that there is a public spat with a player, I think it's smarter for management in any case to take the highest road possible in the press, while they pursue whatever they want to do internally. Expressing a desire to deal a guy that you're in a spat with doesnt seem to me to be the high road.

#17 Jnai


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 06:05 PM

Is it also possible that the Sox were so public with Manny's MRI last night in an effort to prove to other teams that he actually is healthy?


It's also possible that this is the reason for the MRI on both Knees, when from a medical standpoint it makes no good sense at all. ("Oh, your knee hurts? Alright. Well lets look at the other Knee!")

Edited by Jnai, 26 July 2008 - 06:05 PM.


#18 SoxFanSince57


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 06:36 PM

IMO, Theo's public statement is very telling. Theo could have sidestepped the question or put a more neutral spin on it--something like "Manny is an important part of our club and we envision him contributing to our pennant drive. That said, we are always looking to improve the club. But Manny has a no-trade contract and as of today no offers have been presented. So I would not expect a trade right now. Unless another team blows us away with an offer and Manny were amenable to relocating, I don't see it as happening." But Theo didn't simply give a non-answer, he left the door wide open. Like many others here, this doesn't look like it will end very well for Manny fans.

As I see it Theo clearly conveyed that the Sox are at the end of their tether with Manny. It showed the FO's frayed nerves and IMO showed that they are stressed. Regardless of their feeling and intentions, I believe that it was a mistake to go public with any of this stuff. If I were in the FO, I would not want trading partners to think I might be negotiating from a position of relative weakness. When management engages in very public disputes with players, it undermines things further. I can only wish that Theo did not say it, but he did.

While difficult, I believe that the Sox will turn over every stone to move Manny. I believe that the team is upset enough that it would take a "short" deal to move Manny. If another team has any interest in trading for Manny and extending his contract, now is the time.

I see the Mets and Dodgers as about the only teams willing to explore a deal for Manny and the only teams that Manny "may" be willing to be traded to.

Edited by SoxFanSince57, 26 July 2008 - 09:17 PM.


#19 OCD SS


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 06:46 PM

And to the extent that there is a public spat with a player, I think it's smarter for management in any case to take the highest road possible in the press, while they pursue whatever they want to do internally. Expressing a desire to deal a guy that you're in a spat with doesnt seem to me to be the high road.


The high road is for after the deal. Theo's job is to make the Sox better, and moving Manny may be the way to do that. He's working at a huge time disadvantage with the deadline on Thursday and Manny having a NTC, and if this is what it takes to get things going I'm going to trust his judgment. I certainly have no doubt that Boras is willing to take the low road to get what he wants, and I'm not going to hold Theo to any unattainable white hat, Garry Cooper standard at the expense of the rest of this season.

If I were in the FO, I would not want trading partners to think I might be negotiating from a position of relative weakness.


The Sox are already operating from a position of relative weakness. This really looks like it's about getting some small return for him before he leaves.

Edited by OCD SS, 26 July 2008 - 06:53 PM.


#20 someoneanywhere

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 06:53 PM

My point in last night's Manny thread bears repeating in here, in I think: Manny is not going to get $20 million per as a free agent. He is unsure if the Red Sox are going to pick up the option. The only way to ensure his $20 million is to force a trade -- because in that scenario he has leverage. He can hold to NT over the new team to say: "I'll waive it, but you have to pick up 2010, too."

I don't see much gray in either message. Manny's sit-out on Wednesday, to me, was striking and raised my antenna. They needed that win on Wednesday in a bad way, as his teammates doubtlessly recognized. Then to pull out on Friday, on a highly anticipated day on a number of levels, can't be taken as anything other than a message. And Theo is merely responding in kind.

In short, I'm with 57. This is the end of the line, methinks. A team win two rings in four years can do it and get away with it, especially if by some magic Matt Holliday or a Teixeira comes in the other direction.

#21 DannyHeep


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 07:01 PM

------------

Has Manny said publicly that he wants to be traded? If so, I think Theo's remark would be appropriate.

If not, I think it's an unnecessary public statement because I think it does nobody any good. If anything, it puts some additional stress on Manny, which I doubt does him any good, and it puts an additional layer of distraction on the rest of the players, which probably doesnt help them much either. I just don't see a good or useful result of that statement, and I do always see the value of public discretion with the team's thinking on moving players.

And to the extent that there is a public spat with a player, I think it's smarter for management in any case to take the highest road possible in the press, while they pursue whatever they want to do internally. Expressing a desire to deal a guy that you're in a spat with doesnt seem to me to be the high road.


Manny has asked to be traded how many times?

Why does Epstein have to wait until Manny says he wants to be traded? He's said it at least 10-12 times already over his tenure here.

I'd like to hear why we have to wait for Manny to make the first move.

#22 SoxFanPJ


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 07:12 PM

Given the short amount of time before the deadline and the limitations of trading Manny (LF only in NL) I think it makes it pretty tough to really shop him.

As for his 10/5 rights, I am not sure Boras would want him to negotiate an extension before agreeing to a trade, I think its more likely that they force the acquiring team to convert the 2009 team option into a player option. This would allow Manny to shop himself on the free agent market and if he didn't think he was going to get any offers he likes to take the $20M and try again after 2009.

#23 Everybody Loves Rey Quinones

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 07:59 PM

I know Theo has allegedly claimed recently that the trade market is expensive right now. But in the event Theo decides to work on improving the pen, I certainly hope this isn't a situation where the front office holds all potential deals until Manny's situation gets worked out. This has happened in the past to the Sox.

#24 exGloucester

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 08:33 PM

-------------------
Manny has asked to be traded how many times?
-------------------

Hasn't it been a couple of years since the last time, some water under the bridge? At any rate, for all I know Manny may have asked Theo for a trade this morning and then this afternoon's comment would make sense.

#25 The Hot Corner

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 09:02 PM

I'm one who's tired of this. While I think Theo's comment to McCarver is inappropriate, who freaking cares? I'm just a fan and I'm pissed at Manny for acting like a petulant child; I can only imagine what it's like on the inside. At a certain point somebody needs to tell Manny to shut his hole. You're all right, though. I can't imagine anyone wanting to pick up Manny's act at his going rate for anything impressive.

#26 dcmissle


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 09:12 PM

At this point, it really doesn't appear that Manny will be coming back for 2009, so they'd probably be wise to try to get something for him, assuming they could also reel in someone like Adam Dunn, Brian Giles, or Raul Ibanez (or Bonds) to play LF for the rest of the season.


Would the Sox would be entitled to draft compensation if Manny leaves at the end of the season? Or, instead, would the club be obligated to invoke its option for "09 (and for "10 too?) for Manny's departure to yield draft choices?

In any case, Theo's remark doesn't seem geared to facilitating a trade. Rather, it strikes me as a plausible alternative to putting Manny's ass on waivers, an in-your-face blast from the past.

Why this and the back door stuff run through Lobel and Shank?

1. They are preparing us for Manny's eventual departure? Nope. Within very broad limits, I don't think the FO gives a rat's ass about fan reaction to any personnel move. Thank God.

2. They are plenty pissed off and aren't going to take it anymore. Maybe. It's not the way I'd like things run, but these folks are human. I can't point to any evidence that this food fight is hurting on field performance.

3. This is, or should be, hurting Manny and therefore should be properly motivating him. Intriguing. The past few days have cast a big spotlight on Manny as a hugely disruptive force down the stretch in tight division race in a crucial series against a rival. Months before he may hit the FA market for the last contract of his career. If I'm a GM this offseason for a contending team (and what other kind of team will be interested in Manny's services), I want little or no part of this. So if I'm Manny's agent, I'm telling him to back off and get in line -- IF I have Manny's best interests in mind.

#27 The Hot Corner

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 09:22 PM

3. This is, or should be, hurting Manny and therefore should be properly motivating him. Intriguing. The past few days have cast a big spotlight on Manny as a hugely disruptive force down the stretch in tight division race in a crucial series against a rival. Months before he may hit the FA market for the last contract of his career. If I'm a GM this offseason for a contending team (and what other kind of team will be interested in Manny's services), I want little or no part of this. So if I'm Manny's agent, I'm telling him to back off and get in line -- IF I have Manny's best interests in mind.


Do you think that Boras can actually control him? I'm convinced the old lady two rows in front of me that waved hysterically at him as he walked to the plate today is maybe the only person able to influence him. Or maybe Boras should just put a towel over Manny's head and see if he stops being retarded.

#28 Bowlerman9


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 09:52 PM

Would the Sox would be entitled to draft compensation if Manny leaves at the end of the season? Or, instead, would the club be obligated to invoke its option for "09 (and for "10 too?) for Manny's departure to yield draft choices?


If they offer him arb and he declines, they would receive compensation. It may not seem logical, but a team can decline an option, offer arb, and receive picks. It has happened many times and off the top of my head the one I remember is the Yankees getting picks for David Wells.

#29 Savin Hillbilly


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 09:55 PM

This is, or should be, hurting Manny and therefore should be properly motivating him.

But has Manny ever shown much sign of being the kind of person that you can effectively motivate by embarrassing him or putting him on the spot? I don't think so. And that's more reason to believe that the Sox are fed up. Broadcasting on national TV that you'd be just as happy to see the back of a player--and it's hard to parse the words that McCarver reported any other way--is a bridge-burning gesture. It suggests that management has decided their relationship with Manny is so broken at this point that tact can be dispensed with. Of course if they can't trade him by the deadline, that's a tough situation they're handing Tito.

Wild, over-the-top speculation....is it possible that Theo's comments mean they've already got a deal for Holliday or Dunn in the bag, and they're letting all stops out to move Manny before everybody knows they have to?

#30 jacklamabe65


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:04 PM

I agree. I think that Theo already has a deal in place and is using the media to soften the blow of a popular player (who no longer can be put up with) being traded during a pennant race.

#31 PedroKsBambino


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:15 PM

In point of fact, though, Theo is willing to trade anyone isn't he? It's always a question of the return.

They traded Nomar in the middle of a pennant race; clearly, they'd be willing to trade Manny and anyone else, too, if the return was great enough.

I think that quote was notable because he said it publically (whcih to me is clearly a message) not because of the fact that he'd trade Manny. I think there's literally no doubt he'd trade anyone on the roster and hasn't been any doubt about that for years now.

#32 OCD SS


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:21 PM

Unfortunately I disagree about having a deal in place; if they did, wouldn't it make more sense not to lower his trade value by making him seem like someone they want to show the door to? I guess I could see it if they had a deal in place and needed to convince Manny to waive his NTC to free up the space, but I'm not really that optimistic.

#33 SoxScout


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Posted 26 July 2008 - 11:47 PM

I agree that this is no news since I'm sure Theo would listen to offers for Beckett if someone would want to talk..... but I am rather amazed that this is not a bigger story, not in any of the newspaper blogs, ect. I didn't see the broadcast, did McCarver say that Epstein told only him, or everyone? McCarver being the only one with this news is extremely fishy to me.

#34 joyofsox


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Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:03 AM

I went back to the archived game and transcribed a good portion of it.

McCarver:

"One question we asked of Theo Epstein, who was in Terry's office today, was that -- is it out of the realm of possibility that Manny could be traded? Theo Epstein's response to that is that Manny has a no-trade clause, but if he would waive -- he said you can tell this -- you can say this on the air, that if he would waive that no-trade clause, that they would be interested in talking to other teams about the services of Manny Ramirez."

Maybe it was in the manager's meeting with the media? Then it would seem odd not to be in the Globe's blog.

Maybe just Buck and McMoron were in there at the time?

Edited by joyofsox, 27 July 2008 - 12:03 AM.


#35 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:12 AM

Maybe it was in the manager's meeting with the media? Then it would seem odd not to be in the Globe's blog.

Maybe just Buck and McMoron were in there at the time?

Now, I don't know if this is the case with MLB, but for nationally televised NFL games, the broadcast teams gets a private media session with the coach, QB, etc. It's possible that McCarver was given this access.

Also, I believe it was stated that Theo was in Tito's office prior to the game, so McCarver probably had access to him then, as well.

#36 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:18 AM

General Manager Ned Colletti denied a report that the Dodgers had inquired about Red Sox outfielder Manny Ramirez.

Source: http://www.latimes.c...0,1579608.story

#37 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:22 AM

And speaking of Manny . . . it seems as if the Red Sox are prepared to ride out their final contractually obligated season with the perpetually enigmatic slugger, who made major news here when he sat out Friday night's game against the Yankees. Regardless, the Mets don't want Manny at this time.

Source: http://www.newsday.c...,1406903.column

#38 The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:34 AM

In point of fact, though, Theo is willing to trade anyone isn't he? It's always a question of the return.

They traded Nomar in the middle of a pennant race; clearly, they'd be willing to trade Manny and anyone else, too, if the return was great enough.

But that trade in 2004 went down with a team that had an historic offense, 2 aces in the rotation, a top flight closer, and a solid relief corps. They had a hole in the defense and Theo plugged it...at the time the return they got on the Nomar deal seemed on the low side, and I have no doubt that the return they would get for Manny this year would also seem low, lower even. The difference is this 2008 team has more holes as it stands right now, and getting rid of Manny would create yet another hole...so it wouldn't be a case of a Manny trade adding that missing element like it happened in 2004.

Don't forget that the ownership said some time back that their goal was actually to eventually reduce their payroll somewhat, and though the economics of the team and baseball overall has changed, I don't think it changes this desire, and I think back to another of their stated goals, which was and still is: to maintain a good team that will compete for a playoff spot every year. I believe ownership has figured out that the fanatical interest in this team will remain this way as long as the team stays competitive deep into the regular season each year, even if they come up short in the end. This will maximize team revenue while controlling it's outlay by preventing runaway spending (and no, I don't really consider the Gagne move as showing the team would spend big money, since the commitment was short term, comparatively small money, and they anticipated/miscalculated that they would get 2 draft picks for him). And I see any potential Manny move as something consistent with that modus operandi...I wouldn't expect any expensive talent to replace him. Maintaining an outfield of Ellsbury-Crisp-Drew remains a real possibility.

#39 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:35 AM

NEW YORK -- The Mets are seeking a corner outfielder as the July 31 trade deadline approaches, and Mets GM Omar Minaya has long been an admirer of embattled Red Sox star Manny Ramirez. But even the Mets are saying "no'' to Ramirez now.

However, baseball people doubt there'd be a great trade market for Ramirez considering his contractual situation and recent transgressions. Minaya has made several plays in the past for Ramirez but has always fallen short. Ramirez is said by a friend to be "very, very frustrated'' over his contract, which includes team options for $20 million for both 2009 and 2010 and gives the Red Sox the power.

Ramirez would prefer Boston to either extend him or release him after this year, allowing him to shop himself to all suitors. He is said by some to have his eye on the Angels, whose only obvious need is for another big bat and who may have Vladimir Guerrero coming off the books after the season. An Angels person said they don't expect to make any major changes before the July 31 trade deadline.

Source: http://sportsillustr...ny/?eref=sircrc

#40 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:39 AM

And in terms of Ramirez’ immediate future with the Red Sox, nothing has been altered. The Sox haven’t approached the 36-year-old with any scenarios which would be contingent on the slugger waiving his right to veto any trade (thanks to his status as a 10-5 player), and it doesn’t appear there is currently another party interested enough to attempt a deal for Ramirez.

Source: http://news.bostonhe...position=recent

#41 PedroSpecialK


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Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:41 AM

If the Sox were to even consider trading Manny, I think it would be an interesting venture to see if they could get away with attaching Julio Lugo as a poison pill of sorts for a team like the Mets to put at 2B, or for the Dodgers to use as Kent's replacement. It would necessitate us having to take back less in terms of value, but it would be worth it IMO with players like Sheets, Sabathia etc. hitting the FA market after the season. Salary flexibility can never hurt (nor can extra money to throw at draftees)

#42 sachmoney


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Posted 27 July 2008 - 01:41 AM

First off, I agree that Manny is a distraction to the club. However, I think the extent to which the situation has been blown out of proportion is a little ridiculous. I also think that the amount of Manny craziness that's gone as a result of this last week is a little ridiculous.

Yes, he's seemingly costing us really important games. Yes, he is frusrating the crap out of Red Sox Nation. A news thread updating the situation would be nice, but a thread of frustration for every annoying thing he does? Sorry I had to get that off my chest.

OK, so in terms of the trades...I think Theo has to be smart. Theo has shown in the past he's willing to trade anyone or let them go. He traded probably the most popular player from 95-04...in Nomar. He let the likes of Pedro, D-Lowe, and Johnny Damon walk. I wouldn't put it past him to trade Manny. However, I doubt you're going to get anywhere close to enough value for Manny that you want. Theo will make the deal if he thinks making the deal will bring us closer to another title. However, I get the sense that that title will probably not come this year if it does happen.

My whole ordeal is with the draft picks you would get if you offer arbitration and Manny leaves. I think that's an easy thing to do. Theo has shown he is willing to do that in the past with popular players who have been on the decline (Manny may be on the decline, but his numbers still make him a top player). When looking at a possible trade, you have to look at the alternative. If you're giving up Ramirez, you have to get Ramirez value (for the half year plus the possible two years) plus compensation for the possible prospects that would have been gained by keeping Manny. I don't think we can get that, but what are we expecting from any deal?

I agree with PSK about possibly getting rid of Lugo. It would be nice to tag Lugo along in a possible deal to get that burden off the books. This opens up the possibility for Lowrie to play Short or eventually bring up defensive ace Argenis Diaz (don't you guys miss Alex Gonzalez now). Pay roll flexibility is particularly important in the next few years, when your young players are going to be looking for deals: Pedroia, Papelbon, Youkilis. In addition, if you want to pick up guy in the beginning of their primes for 3-4 year deals like the Red Sox like to do.

In closing, I would like to say that when I heard of the Nomar trade. I was crushed. I was in denial. I was kind of suspicious about how the team could win without him. I was quickly won over by Cabrera and the WS was totally worth it. However, I look at this team, and I feel like my attitudes are the same. I think we need Manny to win the WS, hell to even make the playoffs. Part of me wants me to be proved wrong again...

#43 Manny's Hammies

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 01:44 AM

It's kind of incredible to me how Manny is like Barry Bonds Mk. II when it comes to the market. I recognize that there's been a fair amount of drama over these 7+ years, but come on. The guy is a first-ballot HOF-er, and is generally considered to be one of the most popular players in the game -- to say nothing of his reputation as a generally easygoing guy in the clubhouse. This year's been bizarre for sure, what w/ the fights and all, but no one would call him a cancer. To this day, I do not get why a team in need of a bat (hello, Angels) in a quieter market doesn't fall all over themselves to get hold of him. It's not like they're getting some poisonous asshole -- and if the Sox could put up with it for almost eight years and win two World Series, surely some other team could for a half-season to 2 1/2.

#44 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 27 July 2008 - 01:49 AM

The guy is a first-ballot HOF-er, and is generally considered to be one of the most popular players in the game -- to say nothing of his reputation as a generally easygoing guy in the clubhouse.

Since when is Manny one of the most popular players in the game? I've never gotten that impression.

#45 YouLookAdopted

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 02:01 AM

ESPN is running a story right now that says that, according to "multiple reports", the Red Sox have been quietly shopping Manny to other teams. The story is on their MLB front page right now in the video section.

Lowell and Ortiz look pretty exasperated talking about the situation with reporters.

#46 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 27 July 2008 - 02:06 AM

ESPN is running a story right now that says that, according to "multiple reports", the Red Sox have been quietly shopping Manny to other teams. The story is on their MLB front page right now in the video section.

Lowell and Ortiz look pretty exasperated talking about the situation with reporters.

Yeah, I saw that report on Sportscenter, but have yet to see or hear of one of these "reports" of the Sox quietly shopping him, although that wouldn't surprise me.

As for Lowell's exasperation..

How much of a distraction has the Ramírez affair been?

"I don't know," said third baseman Mike Lowell. "That's a great question for Manny."

http://www.boston.co.../27/status_woe/

#47 sachmoney


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Posted 27 July 2008 - 02:11 AM

Since when is Manny one of the most popular players in the game? I've never gotten that impression.


I think he meant amongst the fans because surely, as good a player as he is, it doesn't seem that players view him the same way. Of course he has their respect as a hitter, but in terms of his behavior? I don't know. I always see him and Papi being friendly with most of the Latino players, I think it's a cultural thing.

ESPN is running a story right now that says that, according to "multiple reports", the Red Sox have been quietly shopping Manny to other teams. The story is on their MLB front page right now in the video section.

Lowell and Ortiz look pretty exasperated talking about the situation with reporters.


I don't like the mental toll it's taking on players. Especially guys like Big Papi who has worked so hard to get back to the club. His focus should be on leading the Sox to the playoffs and this Manny situation is a huge distraction. The Sox might need a big team meeting or something to get things in order.

#48 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 27 July 2008 - 02:20 AM

I don't like the mental toll it's taking on players. Especially guys like Big Papi who has worked so hard to get back to the club. His focus should be on leading the Sox to the playoffs and this Manny situation is a huge distraction. The Sox might need a big team meeting or something to get things in order.

The veteran Wakefield said he couldn’t worry about Manny.

“I can’t care whether Manny’s playing or not,” he said. “Whether he’s in the lineup or not, I have to take care of myself. It doesn’t affect us at all.”

Source: http://www.projo.com...12.3e807b4.html

#49 YouLookAdopted

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 02:29 AM

I have a feeling we're going to be seeing Manny in a Yankees uniform next season.

#50 E5 Yaz


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Posted 27 July 2008 - 02:45 AM

I have a feeling we're going to be seeing Manny in a Yankees uniform next season.


That would take a whole lot of machinations. The only way I see that happening would be if Manny agreed to a trade this season on the provision that his new team not exercise his option. Any team willing to do that isn't going to give the Red Sox jack squat for Manny (countdown to someone finding Jack Squat's PECOTA), and I doubt the Sox will give him away midseason.

If Manny's concern is the contract, this isn't going to end soon without a trade. There's little chance the Sox will offer him an extension in lieu of the option(s), so Manny would be increasingly frustrated next season.

Earlier I mentioned that I'm sick of this whole issue, and I am. I'm sick of the soap opera. As a fan, I hate getting sidetracked by this crap. It's been a thrill (in more ways than one) to watch Manny over the years, and he deserves evry accolade he gets. But there are times where the only road is divorce; and I think that's the best solution now.