100 replies to this topic

[joewoodfan]

I always thought that it was just a sad commentary on the team that their best baserunner was a pitcher.

D-Train pinch hits on occasion. He's got .842 OPS as a PH.

[underhandtofirst]

Mike in CT from ST news thread

Something Rob Bradford said in his blog...

In terms of other youngsters who are impressive, I think when Sox fans get a look at Clay Buchholz they will like his delivery. He's got kind of a Roy Oswalt thing going. And Jacoby Ellsbury, as many saw this spring, is going to be tough to keep down too long

Rob Bradford blog

I always thought Oswalt had a bit of a violent delivery. Is comparing Buchholz to Oswalt a good thing when comparing throwing motions? I don't know for sure, there are people here with a lot better knowledge of mechanics that are better qualified to comment on Rob's entry.

Edited by underhandtofirst, 13 March 2007 - 09:09 AM.

[SouthernBoSox]

Mike in CT from ST news thread
Rob Bradford blog

I always thought Oswalt had a bit of a violent delivery. Is comparing Buchholz to Oswalt a good thing when comparing throwing motions? I don't know for sure, there are people here with a lot better knowledge of mechanics that are better qualified to comment on Rob's entry.

The comparison comes from their leg kicks.

[jsinger121]

Clay Buchholz definitely will begin the 2007 season as the #1 pitcher for the Portland Seadogs. I got the info today from a source of mine.

[Mike in CT]

Michael Silverman/Boston Herald on Buchholz's spring training start with the Red Sox...

This season, he will start with Double-A Portland, and he is hoping to be ready for a spot on the big club when rosters expand in September. Buchholz clarified that making it to Boston this season is a hope, not an expectation, but his hopes are shared by many in the organization.

“When he’s on, his slider, curve and changeup can all be double-plus pitches,” general manager Theo Epstein said. “When he’s got them all working at the same time, the game’s pretty much over.”

http://redsox.boston...rticleid=191788

[Mike in CT]

Hartford Courant on Buchholz spring training start...

"I felt like I threw my fastball really well," Buchholz said. "When you get swings and misses with the fastball at this level, you probably did something right with it.

"I really didn't know what to expect coming into it, especially this late in spring training. It was nothing like I ever dreamed I'd be doing. Pitching in Juco ball a couple of years ago to this is such a big jump. Hanging out with guys that have been in Major League Baseball for so long - [Jason]Varitek, Manny [Ramirez] and [David] Ortiz - it's an awesome feeling to have a conversation and play with them."

----

As with Jonathan Papelbon in 2005, the Red Sox gave Buchholz a chance to experience a major league game early in his development.

"He got a lot out of it," Papelbon said. "Regardless of stats, I know for sure he collected a lot of information today, just by sitting in the dugout and seeing how players go about their business and learning how to be a professional. For me, I was listening and watching everything and I was learning [in 2005]. I think he did well."

http://www.courant.c...s-sports-custom

[Crazy Puppy]

Rob Bradford with some comments on Buchholz's outing against the Rays Thursday:

- His fastball sat at around 93 mph, but it was that Papelbon-like heater that has a little jump to the end of it. A few members of the Tampa Bay regular lineup were tardy on the pitch. "He was able to get quite a few swings and misses with his fastball," said Red Sox pitching coach John Farrell. "When pitchers can get that that it is telling you they not only have life in the zone but deception in their delivery, hitters aren't tracking the ball regularly, and he also has four pitches ... he has a very bright future."

- For someone who just learned the change-up at the end of last season, Buchholz seems to have quite a bit of confidence in it. It wasn't a stretch to say that the change was at times his second-most effective pitch.

[templeUsox]

My first comment was going to be that the stadium gun was probably off tonight. Buchholz was around 88-92 all night, but no other pitcher than Cox threw a pitch over 84. I find that hard to believe (Cox hit 87 and 91 each once, more on him later).

Buchholz: First, let me try go grade his pitches on the 20-80 scale:

Fastball: 55. Lost control of it sometimes and it lost a couple MPH when he was in the stretch. At other times he could spot it well and dial it up to 92.
Change-up: 70. Easily his best pitch...at least tonight it was. Would throw multiple changes in a row to lefties or righties with confidence.
Curveball: 60. In his second to last batter of the game he threw his best curve of the night. He also got screwed by the ump several times, who gave up on the curve too early. When it's on, it's above average.
Slider: 55. First couple innings had trouble leaving them up. Not up in the strike zone, but just really high for a ball. By the end of the outing he was throwing a hard slider (81-84 mph) which was fooling hitters.

What Impressed me: His change-up was truly plus-plus at times; and he has so much confidence in it. He tripled-up on it in two consecutive AB's to the same hitter (Chip Cannon). Leading off the game one of the Majewski's hit a HR. I'm not going to make an excuse there, Clay just left a fastball up and Majewski stroked it the other way. Legit shot. But after that, he calmed down. It still took him a couple of innings to get everything working. After the third inning, it was basically a wrap. Hitters had no chance. When he began throwing all his pitches for strikes, the hitters basically had to take a shot in the dark with what was coming. Very poised on the mound and athletic when he needs to come off it. Very impressive night overall. Looked like at least a #2.

[SoxScout]

After tonight's DOMINATING performance...

[jsinger121]

He will be in Pawtucket by mid season.....move over Abe Alvarez.

[jsinger121]

The Red Sox plan on limiting Buchholz to 155 innings this year.

[ekim colorwaterpit]

The Red Sox plan on limiting Buchholz to 155 innings this year.

I know this happens a lot with young pitchers in the minors. What is the course of action to go about doing this. Do they take the estimated amount of games he will pitch and divide that into 155 and limit him to that many innings per game? Do they cut his numbers of games by having him pitch every 6th day? or do they just shut him down once he has hit 155 innings?

[jsinger121]

I know this happens a lot with young pitchers in the minors. What is the course of action to go about doing this. Do they take the estimated amount of games he will pitch and divide that into 155 and limit him to that many innings per game? Do they cut his numbers of games by having him pitch every 6th day? or do they just shut him down once he has hit 155 innings?

The early rainouts in Portland have helped. They may give him some 6 inning games to keep him around that 155 limit.

[redinchicago]

From Keith Law's chat this morning:

Keith Law chat (subscription required)

Jon, Perth, Australia: I hear a bit down here about two Red Sox pitchers in particular - Buckholtz and Bowden. What's the real deal with them, and who will get to the bigs fastest (and when)? THANKS!

Keith Law: Buchholz is close, could be up this year. Average fastball, plus CB, plus changeup, plus control. They were lucky to get him in the supplementals. Bowden's also a command guy, two years younger, and at least a year behind developmentally.


Andrew (Boston): I think Buchholz and average fastball is a little bit of underexaggeration, maybe compared to his other pitchers, but BA had him hitting 97 late in the games in the Eastern League playoffs last year.

Keith Law: He was 88-92 the last time my scout up here saw him. Be very wary of second-hand velocity reports. Teams and scouts like to exaggerate them, for a variety of reasons.

[Drocca]

Keith Law: He was 88-92 the last time my scout up here saw him. Be very wary of second-hand velocity reports. Teams and scouts like to exaggerate them, for a variety of reasons.

That's interesting because I recall feeling the same way when Lester came up. His FB was 3-4mph slower than the scouting reports had it at.

[jsinger121]

Keith Law will be eating his words on Buchholz. He doesn't have an average fastball Keith.

[Drocca]

Keith Law will be eating his words on Buchholz. He doesn't have an average fastball Keith.

What speed do you think Buchholz FB is and from what source(s)?

(I'm not being snarky, I just want to know why there are varying reports)

[jsinger121]

What speed do you think Buchholz FB is and from what source(s)?

(I'm not being snarky, I just want to know why there are varying reports)

91-94 on his fastball with it topping at 95 from someone at tonights game that gives accurate reports.

Edited by jsinger121, 11 May 2007 - 06:23 PM.

[SoxScout]

Edited by SoxScout, 11 May 2007 - 07:35 PM.

[mt8thsw9th]

http://www.mainetoda...deo486auto.html

[SoxScout]

On the rise, Buchholz follows Papelbon model

Two years ago, after dominating the Double-A Eastern League at Portland, Jonathan Papelbon [stats]made a sudden ascent to the Red Sox [team stats] at the end of July after barely more than a cameo appearance at Triple-A Pawtucket.
With his promotion from the Sea Dogs to the PawSox yesterday, Clay Buchholz remained on the same track, putting the organization’s top pitching prospect in line to earn a possible call-up the next time the parent club’s staff needs a booster shot.
Buchholz, who was a sandwich-round selection (42nd overall, compensation for Pedro Martinez) in the June 2005 draft, appeared in 16 games for Portland and went 7-2 with a 1.77 ERA, striking out 116 batters while walking only 22 in 86 innings. The 22-year-old right-hander held Eastern League hitters to a paltry .180 batting average.
Buchholz is expected to make his first Triple-A appearance Monday night at McCoy Stadium, where the PawSox will host Ottawa in a 7:05 start.
“As effective as he’s been this year, he’s still an unfinished product and he still has a lot of work to do,” Sox general manager Theo Epstein said of Buchholz. “His further development will dictate when he arrives here.”
Buchholz is approximately one week behind Papelbon’s pace in 2005, when he was promoted from Portland to Pawtucket on July 4 and made four starts from July 7-26 (1-2, 3.57 ERA) before being called up on July 31. Papelbon started for the Red Sox that night and was optioned back to Pawtucket, where he made three relief appearances before being recalled for good on Aug. 16. He stuck with the team through its abbreviated playoff run and became an All-Star closer in his first two full big league seasons in 2006 and ’07.
With Papelbon firmly entrenched at the back end of the bullpen, the Sox foresee Buchholz’ long-term future as a starter. That doesn’t mean, however, that he couldn’t initially be called up to work out of the bullpen, if the need arises. Epstein said the key to Buchholz’ success is his improved fastball command, which has led to better pitch efficiency and more effective deployment of his secondary pitches.
“I saw him last week at Portland and more than ever so before, he was getting early-count outs with his fastball and getting groundball outs, which allowed him to keep his pitch count down,” Epstein said.
Buchholz, who represented the organization (along with Jacoby Ellsbury) in Sunday’s Futures Games in San Francisco, was 6-1 with a 1.54 ERA in his last eight starts for Portland. He had 11 or more strikeouts in four games, including a career-high 12 on June 14 against Erie. Buchholz set a Sea Dogs record by fanning eight straight batters May 11 against Binghamton.
To accommodate Buchholz’ promotion, the Sox moved right-hander Chris Smith back to Portland after one relief appearance for Pawtucket. The Sox also released Sea Dogs first baseman Eric Crozier, who batted .236 with nine homers and 44 RBI in 63 games. Crozier, 28, appeared in 14 games for the Toronto Blue Jays in 2004 and signed as a free agent in December.

[DavidWellsAteNelson]

Clay is 4th on Rotoworld's top 150 prospects list, and the highest ranked pitcher.

With more than twice as many strikeouts as hits allowed in Double-A this year, Buchholz has the best case as the top pitching prospect in the minors. His control isn't quite as good as the 5:1 K:BB ratio suggests, but he is very good at putting his offspeed pitches where he wants them. It's fastball command that can sometimes be a problem for him. He won't be able to overpower major league hitters quite like he has his opponents in the Eastern League, so he'll need to improve in that area in order to help the Red Sox next year. There's a slight chance that the Red Sox will break him in as a reliever down the stretch, just like they did with Jonathan Papelbon in 2005. However, they're concerned enough about his workload that they might prefer he be shut down after the minor league season ends. A debut in the first half of 2008 seems likely. He projects as a long-term No. 2.

[jsinger121]

Clay throwing 3 innings tonight has alot to do with him staying within the 155-160 innings limit than the fact he has not started in awhile. From what I have learned tonight he is indeed being groomed to come up to Boston this season and the FO has to balance the innings pitched at the same time which is a tough situation for the FO. If they need him up he needs to have innings to use. If they don't then so be it and he comes up Sept 1 just the same.

Edited by jsinger121, 16 July 2007 - 07:50 PM.

[SouthPaw21]

Clay ranked #4 on the July 23rd edition of Baseball America's Prospect Hot Sheet...

4. Clay Buchholz, rhp, Triple-A Pawtucket (Red Sox)

Ho-hum. Buchholz authored another double-digit strikeout outing, giving him five for the season. The first four came at the Double-A level, but his latest came Sunday when he fanned 10 Triple-A Louisville Bats. He'll have to continue at a similar pace to catch Will Inman and Gio Gonzalez, the top two minor league strikeout artists.

[Kevin Youkulele]

Buchholz now has 21 K in 12 IP at AAA. With Timlin's recent shoulder issues, I'd love to have a look at Clay in the ML bullpen.

[SouthPaw21]

Clay Buchholz was picked as 1 of 4 starting pitchers for Baseball America's 2007 Minor League All-Star Team. Jed Lowrie was the only other Red Sox prospect on the team.

Starting Pitcher: CLAY BUCHHOLZ
Red Sox

The 23-year-old Buchholz likely will be remembered more for the no-hitter he twirled against the Orioles on Sept. 1 than for his minor league accomplishments. But few pitchers had seasons to rival what Buchholz accomplished for Double-A Portland and Triple-A Pawtucket. He led all minor league pitchers in strikeouts per nine innings (12.34), finished third in opponent average (.191) and ranked fifth in strikeouts (171). What's scariest for opposing batters, though, is that Buchholz' 90-93 mph fastball might be his third-best pitch, behind his curve and change.

[dynomite]

Interesting piece on Clay in the Globe today. Farrell expects him to pitch ~ 180 innings and is working with him to improve his overall arm strength and command on his fastball.

"There have been gains from a physical standpoint," pitching coach John Farrell said yesterday. "In retrospect, looking back to what did take place, it was certainly the right decision to deactivate him, for lack of a better term, at the time. He is making progress. He's still got some work to do, particularly as we project 180-185 innings for next year. There's still some work to be done to build that foundation to endure that load."

"From a fundamental standpoint, obviously the assortment of pitches is outstanding. I think the one area he can continue to improve upon is overall fastball command. I look back to the start that he made in Toronto [his final start, Sept. 19]. For those first four-plus innings, he was outstanding that game. He shows you the ability to do that. Now it's a matter of being as consistent as possible."

[GreyisGone]

I am down right giddy at the thought of Buchholz having a full year to work with Farrell.

[ks501]

I wish I knew Law was at Tufts... Best change-up in baseball? Thats high praise.

[SoxFanSince57]

This article by Joe McDonald on Projo.com is pretty much what Corsi posted above....but check out the picture of Clay--Look at his legs...He is getting to be a strong kid.

Clay Buchholz is clearly bigger and stronger than the last time we saw him in Boston. Buchholz worked out at the Athletes’ Performance Institute in Pensacola, Fla., for two months this winter to increase his strength, which proved to be a big issue for him last September.

Buchholz struggled with strength in his shoulder last September and the Red Sox do not want a repeat performance this season. The talented pitcher gained 13 pounds during the offseason and now tips the scale at 191, which, he says, is a lot better than the 178 pounds he weighed when he left Boston last September.

Boston would like Buchholz to reach 180 to 190 innings this season as opposed to the 148 he combined to toss last season at Portland (86 2/3), Pawtucket (38 2/3) and Boston (22 2/3).

Red Sox director of player development Mike Hazen said yesterday he feels Buchholz has had a good winter and has scored well on strength testing, while making gradual progress. “He looks good,” said Hazen. “Physically he’s put on some weight in his shoulders and chest. We are really excited.”

Buchholz: “There’s a lot of hard work to be up there for 162 games. That’s what I dedicated my offseason to…I’m in shape and I do believe my shoulder is ready to go…I don’t feel fatigued anymore and I’ve actually been throwing a lot since the first of the year. Everything is going as planned so far.”

http://www.projo.com...10.287a96b.html

Edited by SoxFanSince57, 22 January 2008 - 11:14 AM.

[Mike in CT]

Now we know why Clay has struggled a bit this spring.

(nsfw)
http://www.withleath...t.phtml?pk=5246

(safe for work)
http://news.bostonhe...p;position=also

Edited by Mike in CT, 12 March 2008 - 11:21 PM.

[Padaiyappa]

Now we know why Clay has struggled a bit this spring.

(nsfw)
http://www.withleath...t.phtml?pk=5246

(safe for work)
http://news.bostonhe...p;position=also

This gives good indication of "his spankings" during ST

[SouthPaw21]

Pretty interesting article about Clay's mechanics over at Driveline Mechanics. They seemed pretty impressed on all accounts.

[ham_sandwich]

Pretty interesting article about Clay's mechanics over at Driveline Mechanics. They seemed pretty impressed on all accounts.

That is an interesting article. Can anyone help me understand what the acromial line is? I looked it up and couldn't find an adequate description.

[SumnerH]

That is an interesting article. Can anyone help me understand what the acromial line is? I looked it up and couldn't find an adequate description.

It's the line from one shoulder to the other. A lot of people think that if you rotate so far that the acromial line is past being perpendicular to the plate, you're increasing injury risk needlessly.

[CaptainLaddie]

The guy who owns that site is a member here - I'll get him to respond.

[ham_sandwich]

The guy who owns that site is a member here - I'll get him to respond.

That would be most good, thank you.

and thanks to SumnerH for the quick response.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I'll have to take a closer look at driveline when I'm not at work, but a brief skimming through that article was very interesting. This is one area of baseball I need some schoolin' in. And it's nice to see a link that can help me with that.

[gyroballerkyle]

Not only do I post here, but some might remember you with regards to the gyroball story!

Anyway, thanks for posting the link. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to fire away.

[ham_sandwich]

Not only do I post here, but some might remember you with regards to the gyroball story!

Anyway, thanks for posting the link. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to fire away.

Let me caveat my questions by saying that I know very, very little about pitching mechanics, so please excuse my ignorance.

I am interested to know what function the acromial line plays in a)generating power for a pitcher and b) disguising their breaking pitches.

Thanks in advance.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Kyle, thanks for stopping by and taking questions. I have two. First, in the first segment of the breakdown you compare Buchholz's body posture to Roy Oswalt's. You point out how he almost sits down and rides his back leg, then show two frame by frame videos, one of each pitcher. The question I have is regarding that comparison. When I watch those two videos, it appears as though Oswalt sits noticably lower than Buchholz does. So this becomes a two part question. First, do you attribute the lower "seat" to the fact that Oswalt is so much quicker through his balance point, thus allowing him to drive through his balance point lower without losing his balance? And second, putting aside the fact that you say he makes up for this with a more aggressive lower body action, do you see the higher "seat" leading to any potential issues that Oswalt has been able to avoid (mechanical inconsistancy, for instance) throughout his career?

And that sort of transitions into my second question. I'll quote the description I'm curious about.

He starts to pick the ball up with the elbow, which is a sign of possible shoulder impingement in the W-arm position. However, Clay keeps the PAS elbow below his shoulder, avoiding hyperabduction, and he naturally loads his shoulders, rather than forcing the issue (see Aaron Crow for a counter-example).

If I'm reading you correctly, you're pointing out an area that could be problematic (the picking the ball up with the elbow) but saying he compensates with keeping the elbow below the shoudler and loading his shoulder naturally. Because he is picking the ball up with his elbow to start this process, would you say he would be more prone to mechanical inconsistancy in the future? To the layperson (ie.. me), it seems logical that should one or more of the things that follow change, it would increase the chances of that initial part of the arm action causing problems.

If I'm misreading you or simply misunderstanding the point of that passage, my appologies.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 16 April 2008 - 11:31 AM.

[gyroballerkyle]

Let me caveat my questions by saying that I know very, very little about pitching mechanics, so please excuse my ignorance.

I am interested to know what function the acromial line plays in a)generating power for a pitcher and b) disguising their breaking pitches.

Thanks in advance.

The acromial line (also known as the "shoulder line") determines the arm slot of a pitcher. Pedro's acromial line is basically parallel to the ground, and as such, he throws sidearm. Hideki Okajima's acromial line is nearly perpendicular to the ground, and he throws straight overhand. It is my opinion that tilting the acromial line to achieve a high 3/4 arm slot will slightly increase the leverage you can obtain and increase quality of breaking balls (like Buchholz's curveball) by making them true 12-6 pitches. Despite what people tell you, it is impossible to keep your "fingers on top of the ball" unless you release from a high 3/4 or overhand delivery.

Kyle, thanks for stopping by and taking questions. I have two. First, in the first segment of the breakdown you compare Buchholz's body posture to Roy Oswalt's. You point out how he almost sits down and rides his back leg, then show two frame by frame videos, one of each pitcher. The question I have is regarding that comparison. When I watch those two videos, it appears as though Oswalt sits noticably lower than Buchholz does. So this becomes a two part question. First, do you attribute the lower "seat" to the fact that Oswalt is so much quicker through his balance point, thus allowing him to drive through his balance point lower without losing his balance? And second, putting aside the fact that you say he makes up for this with a more aggressive lower body action, do you see the higher "seat" leading to any potential issues that Oswalt has been able to avoid (mechanical inconsistancy, for instance) throughout his career?

And that sort of transitions into my second question. I'll quote the description I'm curious about.
If I'm reading you correctly, you're pointing out an area that could be problematic (the picking the ball up with the elbow) but saying he compensates with keeping the elbow below the shoudler and loading his shoulder naturally. Because he is picking the ball up with his elbow to start this process, would you say he would be more prone to mechanical inconsistancy in the future? To the layperson (ie.. me), it seems logical that should one or more of the things that follow change, it would increase the chances of that initial part of the arm action causing problems.

If I'm misreading you or simply misunderstanding the point of that passage, my appologies.

Oswalt definitely "sits" lower than Buchholz, but I don't attribute that to his quickness into footplant. Pitchers can determine the speed into footplant in various ways, but it is no secret that I do like what Oswalt does with his lower body. I am not convinced that a higher "seat" will lead to mechanical inconsistencies.

As for his arm action leading to inconsistencies, I think you're on to something. I see it like this: The more moving parts a delivery has, the tougher it is to replicate the delivery over and over again with little effort. As a result, you will get inconsistent release points on some (or all) pitches occasionally, especially as you fatigue. That is a big reason why scouts want a smooth arm action that is easily repeatable without sacrificing velocity.

[ham_sandwich]

The acromial line (also known as the "shoulder line") determines the arm slot of a pitcher. Pedro's acromial line is basically parallel to the ground, and as such, he throws sidearm. Hideki Okajima's acromial line is nearly perpendicular to the ground, and he throws straight overhand. It is my opinion that tilting the acromial line to achieve a high 3/4 arm slot will slightly increase the leverage you can obtain and increase quality of breaking balls (like Buchholz's curveball) by making them true 12-6 pitches. Despite what people tell you, it is impossible to keep your "fingers on top of the ball" unless you release from a high 3/4 or overhand delivery.
Oswalt definitely "sits" lower than Buchholz, but I don't attribute that to his quickness into footplant. Pitchers can determine the speed into footplant in various ways, but it is no secret that I do like what Oswalt does with his lower body. I am not convinced that a higher "seat" will lead to mechanical inconsistencies.

As for his arm action leading to inconsistencies, I think you're on to something. I see it like this: The more moving parts a delivery has, the tougher it is to replicate the delivery over and over again with little effort. As a result, you will get inconsistent release points on some (or all) pitches occasionally, especially as you fatigue. That is a big reason why scouts want a smooth arm action that is easily repeatable without sacrificing velocity.

That's really interesting stuff Kyle, thanks.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

That's really interesting stuff Kyle, thanks.

Yes, thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to our questions.

[John DiFool]

I know I posted in here, but the board ate it.

If there's been talk about Clay's status on this board I can't find it. Anyone know how the hammy is doing and when he'll be starting again?

[foulkehampshire]

I know I posted in here, but the board ate it.

If there's been talk about Clay's status on this board I can't find it. Anyone know how the hammy is doing and when he'll be starting again?

He pitched on the the 22nd.

5 IP, 3H, 2ER, 2BB, 2K

Pawsox Stats

[Adirondack jack]

Buchholz struck out a season-high eight over seven one-hit innings Friday as the Pawtucket Red Sox rolled to a 4-0 blanking of the Columbus Clippers at Huntington Park.Buchholz has done his best to make the organization take a second look, going 2-0 with a 1.33 ERA in his first five International League starts. He has allowed only three hits over 12 1/3 innings in winning his last two outings but clearly was at his best Friday.

"Stuff-wise, it was probably the best performance I've had in my professional career," noted Buchholz. "Tonight, I had four pitches working and I was able to throw strikes in any count."

link