159 replies to this topic

[Pearl Wilson]

...and an hour later, we now await the punishment that will be meted out.

Shields threw at Crisp, hit him in the thigh, and Crisp decided to make it personal. He rushed Shields, who threw a hasty punch at Coco. Coco deftly dodged the shot and connected with one of his own (Coco clearly is tougher than he looks) before Navarro interceded. Most fights go to the ground, and Coco wound up on the bottom of a pile of punch-throwing Rays. Benches cleared, bullpens emptied and chaos ensued.

Fines and suspensions are coming, you can bet on that.

[Williams Head Case]

I know it was hard for the Umps to accurately see who was involved in the brawl aside from the main participants, but judging from replay, who gets in the most trouble from MLB? I'd have to say aside from Coco and Shields, Carl Crawford noticeably took an active role in landing a few punches. Heck of a juke by Coco, though. So who else appears to be awaiting a call from the Commish's office?

[Nuf Ced]

Fines and suspensions are coming, you can bet on that.

I am interested in seeing whether Gomes and Crawford are punished for throwing cheap shots at Crisp while he was being held down.

Bob Watson will likely punish Coco the most since he could have simply walked to first base after getting hit.

[URI]

My guess...

Crisp will get the biggest suspension for charging and then throwing a punch...I would guess 8 games.
Shields will get 5 for throwing a punch
Gomes and Crawford will each get 3-5
Iwamura might get 2

Casey and Youkilis both threw punches, and Lugo was kind of violent with Longoria. They will get 40 games each.

[NYCSox]

There are bigger problems if Ellsbury has to miss more than a handful of games with his wrist injury as the Sox can only buy so much time appealing Coco's suspension.

[URI]

There are bigger problems if Ellsbury has to miss more than a handful of games with his wrist injury as the Sox can only buy so much time appealing Coco's suspension.

Well if Ellsbury is out for any amount of time, Van Every would probably come out. That's passable (Van Every or Drew in center) for the bunch of games Crisp will miss.

Note, I'm not saying good, or ideal...just passable.

[Rough Carrigan]

Two, two, two over-reactions in one series. Thanks Coco. And now, right on time with your suspension they may have Ellsbury hurt.

[NYCSox]

Well if Ellsbury is out for any amount of time, Van Every would probably come out. That's passable (Van Every or Drew in center) for the bunch of games Crisp will miss.

Note, I'm not saying good, or ideal...just passable.

Yup. Definitely sub-optimal but passable.

[Cuzittt]

Shields will get 5 for throwing a punch

Which is pathetic. He wouldn't even miss a start. Has to be 6 or 7 and should be exactly the same amount as Crisp.

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

brawls like this one are where the Sox sorely miss Julian Tavarez.

[mr guido]

I love that Shields took off his hat but didn't drop his glove, then led with the righty haymaker. Where does a RHP learn to fight like that? Possibly his manager, still sore the Sox turned him down a few years ago & relegating him to loserville?

It's pretty clear the Rays still have the mentality of a last place team, it's pretty mind boggling Shields would get himself ejected from what would be considered an important game if you actually believed the Rays have the talent to compete. I will give Maddon credit here... perhaps he examined their weak pythagoreans, saw that Pena is on the DL, realized they've played most of their games at home, and decided there was no reason to bother gunning for 1st.

URI's suspensions sound about right. Maddon will also get a game or two (intentionally HBP). I imagine there'll be a stray game or two for the various Sox who landed punches.

[Rough Carrigan]

brawls like this one are where the Sox sorely miss Julian Tavarez.

The one time we could get some value out of Rudy Seanez and he's not around.

[URI]

Of course, if Tavarez were still on the Sox, you'd be looking at about 5 dead bodies.

Three of them Red Sox, just by pure rage filled error.

[Rough Carrigan]

First report from Heidi Watney on NESN is that Ellsbury has a "strained wrist". She added that X-rays were negative. So, not terrible news so far.

[findguapo]

not to be missed, Demarlo Hale had an excellent take down of Shields. I would say Crisp and Shields should get the same suspension, seeing that Crisp is a position player, and Shields is a SP. Gomes threw a couple good haymakers, and Crawford tried to jab some cheap shots in there until Ellsbury pulled him off. It seemed to me like Lugo was trying to just push everyone away, because he has the TB connection, I didn't see anything wrong with him.

Edited by findguapo, 05 June 2008 - 06:47 PM.

[YouLookAdopted]

Shields has quite a temper. The scorer for a team he once played for once told me about the time Shields crawled halfway through a press box window during a game to dispute a scoring decision from the previous day. The opposing batter hit a hot shot back to the third baseman which bounced out of his glove. The scorer ruled it a hit and seven runs subsequently scored in the inning. The next day, Shields was charting near the press box when he apparently decided to let the scorer know that he should have ruled it an error. Words were exchanged and Shields is said to have jumped up on a seat and started to climb into the press box. He had to be talked down, but apparently turned around a few more times to yell at and flip-off the scorer. He was subsequently nicknamed "Panty Shields".

[Harry Hooper]

I can't see why Shields should get much of a suspension. He retaliated with a pitch in the thigh (not near the head), and threw a punch at a madman charging full steam at him. He's suposed to just let Coco come out and bludgeon him?

Given Coco's very public comments in the last 24 hours, he'll get at least a week off.

[findguapo]

I can't see why Shields should get much of a suspension. He retaliated with a pitch in the thigh (not near the head), and threw a punch at a madman charging full steam at him. He's suposed to just let Coco come out and bludgeon him?

Given Coco's very public comments in the last 24 hours, he'll get at least a week off.

Because throwing at a batter is against the rules. It is obviously intentional, and for a starting pitcher, a 5 game suspension is equivalent to a 1 day suspension for a position player. He should get 5 or 6 games, then he will appeal.

Richie Sexson received 6 games for charging and throwing his helmet at the pitcher, I do not think that was any more violent then what Crisp did:
http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3389031
Gabbard received no punishment for that, but it didn't seem like he was even throwing at him, Sexson was just mad because he sucks.

Edited by findguapo, 05 June 2008 - 07:03 PM.

[Dick Pole Upside]

not to be missed, Demarlo Hale had an excellent take down of Shields....

Yes... that was excellent form on the Suplex. The Iron Sheikh would've been proud.

Sheilds stuck around and wanted "in" on the fight with Coco, unlike the aforementioned Gabbard/Sexson pas de deux, where Gabbard turtled. Shields, being a very big kid (and apparently one with a temper), appeared to be an active participant once the dust-up began.

Though Casey's name was briefly mentioned in an earlier post as a potential suspendee, I think he'll definitely get a few days off... on the replays it looked like he made a bee-line out of the dugout straight at Shields, and tossed a few before the scrum took over.

[Empyreal]

I was watching the replay of the incident and caught this Ray fixing his shoe. This is the first time he reached down to fix it; he did it twice. So, you're watching your teammates in a brawl and the first thing you do is make sure your Nike is on straight?

[Bucknahs Bum Ankle]

I was watching the replay of the incident and caught this Ray fixing his shoe. This is the first time he reached down to fix it; he did it twice. So, you're watching your teammates in a brawl and the first thing you do is make sure your Nike is on straight?

That's where he keeps the razor blade.

[OCD SS]

2 things:

1. Shields hit Pedroia as well. If you want to make an argument about unwaranted retaliation at middle infielders, he should figure into the discussion.

2. Coco should've just taken first base, and cleaned out the guy covering on his steal attempt again.

[bornintoit]

Coco def. went a little overboard on this one.. Tit for tat..he got hit on his thigh.. Should have taken his base and done with it ..

I do have to give him props. for that duke on the round house.. that wasn't an easy punch to dodge especially when your coming full speed..

I could have sworn I read something about Coco having some sort of boxing background...

[educatedcheese]

I could have sworn I read something about Coco having some sort of boxing background...

Covelli's dad was a boxer. So sayeth D'Orsillo.

[Redkluzu]

Now he's on NESN saying the Rays were throwing punches at him like "little girls." He "credits" Shields for not trying to hit him in the head. "Tit for tat," seems to be his "is what it is."

[Pearl Wilson]

Now he's on NESN saying the Rays were throwing punches at him like "little girls." He "credits" Shields for not trying to hit him in the head. "Tit for tat," seems to be his "is what it is."

...yeah, and they pulled his hair too. I enjoyed that post game interview with Coco very much. I think he was wrong in this. I think he over-reacted. I also find myself liking him more than I did before all this.

[joyofsox]

tit for tat

someone must have spoken with coco. in the papers this morning, he was quoted as saying "tick for tack"

the tampa guy's left shoe flew off as he was falling out of the pile. before going back in for more, he was trying to jam his left shoe back on. he had a jacket on, so i don't know who it was.

[DJnVa]

This should just be retitled to "The Sox are completely insane".

Can anyone shed any light on what happened in the dugout between Youkilis and Manny?

[Foulkey Reese]

"Like little girls trying to scratch out my eyes"

"People trying to pull my hair like little girls"

Good old Coco.

What an utterly hilarious interview, hard not to like Coco after seeing that.

Edited by Foulkey Reese, 05 June 2008 - 09:38 PM.

[Oil Can's Liver]

Casey and Youkilis were the 1st out of the dugout and they both got to Shields at the same time. Demarlo Hale was slamming Shields to the ground. As Shields was going down Casey clocked Shields!

Easily the slowest player on the field...maybe slowest human on the field, including the umps and Joe Maddon.

Sean Casey and Kevin Youkilis are fucking NAILS!

[Drocca]

My guess...

Crisp will get the biggest suspension for charging and then throwing a punch...I would guess 8 games.
Shields will get 5 for throwing a punch
Gomes and Crawford will each get 3-5
Iwamura might get 2

Casey and Youkilis both threw punches, and Lugo was kind of violent with Longoria. They will get 40 games each.

I'm sorry, I'm watching the C's and missed the game. What does the bolded mean? Sarcasm that I'm missing?

[YAZ]

I was at the local pub and everybody there knew as we did, that Coco was gonna go ballistic, before he even came up.

Ok, so the best part that I see not mentioned yet, was when the scrub was maybe over, I'm like where's Coco? Then he comes out under/between the legs of someone. Just awesome, his knees dirty, eyes watering, with a smile, NESN right on him, near Tito.

We was most excellent with the cheer. Never mind he was wrong charging.

[thisyearisthe]

So any chance Youkilis was giving Manny shit for not getting involved in the fight?

[OttoC]

This should just be retitled to "The Sox are completely insane".

Can anyone shed any light on what happened in the dugout between Youkilis and Manny?

Not really, but the TBA announcers said that a tape re-run showed that it took Manny Ramirez 28 seconds to get on the field after the fracas started. They also speculated that "knowing" Youkilis's demeanor, he could have thrown his equipment after making an out and struck Ramirez wtih it.

Tampa Bay's announcers did little to cover themselves with glory (Is only the catcher allowed to block a bag?). They kept harping about Crisp being the entire cause of the incident (This began last night when Crisp began to cry and issue threats) and over and over showed him charging the mound. They also kept going on about Youkilis crying whenever a strike is called on him; yet, they kept complaining every time a strike was called on a Tampa Bay player. They want DeMarlo Hale suspended because he tackled Shileds from behind.

Im my opinion, they went out oif their way trying to inflame Tampa Bay fans. I generally skip NESN broadcasts when I can, but I'll think twice about listening to Tampa Bay broadcasts again.

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I know Anatoly speculates 3-5 for Gomes but the video is pretty damning that he was intentionally trying to hit Coco when he was down. Given his recent past history (WWE-style move on Shelley Duncan), its entirely conceivable that Watson will come down harder on him.

And Coco is a very funny guy but you know its not over if he's calling the Rays little girls.

[plusbrians]

I too am curious as to what happened with Youks and Manny... You always see Manny as so happy go lucky... but this time it looks as if he was the agressor.


As for Coco, I wish Julian was there- he'd the perfect person to go apeshit and then release to call up an extra outfielder.


One other note- those that I've heard bust on Crisp for creating a "lack of depth" in the OF, are BS...

How the hell was he supposed to know Ellsbury was gonna hurt his wrist?

[URI]

I'm sorry, I'm watching the C's and missed the game. What does the bolded mean? Sarcasm that I'm missing?

It happened at about 7pm (2 hours before the Celtics game)...it was sarcasm because of the "Bob Watson is out to get us YANKEE BOB" stuff that was sure to come out.

[eddiew112]

Covelli's dad was a boxer. So sayeth D'Orsillo.

If Coco had any boxing background, he would have taken one step to his left and slammed Shields with a quick left.

[BigA27]

That was a very entertaining fracas.

I have watched the replay of Coco's old school slipping skills several times and am still impressed. Too bad he went for a roundhouse right, if he had slipped then countered with a solid left hook he could have probably dropped Shields. Although that probably would have led to a longer suspension, it may have been worth it out of sheer entertainment value.

[bellyofthebeast]

I was at the local pub and everybody there knew as we did, that Coco was gonna go ballistic, before he even came up.

As I was at my local tonight (focused primarily on the Celtics), I saw a replay of what appeared to be a scuffle in the Sox dugout. It looked like somebody (Coco?) taking a swing at a bald guy. And as Youks was at the plate at the time, it seemed as though he might have been the target.

Did this actually happen? Did Crisp take a swing at a teammate tonight? Is it Billy Martin's birthday or something?



Edit: Just found the Herald story. It was Manny and Youks? WTF?

http://bostonherald....e...&position=4

Edited by bellyofthebeast, 06 June 2008 - 12:41 AM.

[Tony the Pony]

That was a very entertaining fracas.

I have watched the replay of Coco's old school slipping skills several times and am still impressed. Too bad he went for a roundhouse right, if he had slipped then countered with a solid left hook he could have probably dropped Shields. Although that probably would have led to a longer suspension, it may have been worth it out of sheer entertainment value.

Hmm, unfortunately you weren't as apt during the ManU match

Coco had no business charging the mound. I understand he was jacked up and all, but why not be a bit smarter? Papi is out and he has a much more improved role on the team.

And FWIW - I'd rather not have Manny join a pile of fighting ballplayers - esp when it's a bunch of fuckin Rays. I want Manny to hit a 3 run HR and a 2 run single, not be the first guy out of the dug-out.

Entertaining? Yes. Smart? Not so much

[MidnightC]

Rays reactions.

Gomes:

"With Coco’s slide, it was almost premeditiated. He did say that and we read the papers and we watch TV, so I think everyone was on their toes.

"Like I said, nothing ever good comes out of this. We don’t want to hurt anybody and we don’t want to get hurt . . . but when you mix it up with a bunch of testosterone with 25 grown men, odds are punches are gonna get thrown if you have the opportunity."

Shields:

Shields said he wasn't surprised Crisp charged the mound.

“No, not really,” he said. “That just shows the kind of character he is. He’s not a professional player. I lost all respect for him.”

He also admitted he deliberately hit Crisp, which will no doubt earn him a lengthy suspension. But he didn't seem to care about that, either.

“We’ve been getting stomped around the last 10 years and that’s not going to happen any more,” said Shields. “I had to let him know early and right away and he decided to come out."

[BigA27]

Oh it was certainly idiotic, I cannot deny that, but as brawl moves go that was one of the better ones.

As for the Man U game, despite your distinct size advantage over everybody there we were still outnumbered at least 12-1. Also everybody there was far too well behaved to start a ruckus.

[HomeRunBaker]

“No, not really,” he said. “That just shows the kind of character he is. He’s not a professional player. I lost all respect for him.”

Shields is right. He retaliated after what Coco did last night and did so in a professional manner......by throwing a fastball below the waist. Coco did not.

[E5 Yaz]

Shields is right. He retaliated after what Coco did last night and did so in a professional manner......by throwing a fastball below the waist. Coco did not.

Exactly right. Crisp knew he was going to get hit, especially after mouthing off after the Wednesday game. Take your base and steal second if you're still angry.

[paulftodd]

Coco goes after a guy 4 inches taller and who outweighs him 30 lbs and hit him intentionally and we dump on him?. This despite the fact Pedroia was also hit and the umpire likely would have issued a warning based on what happned the previous day, meaning that one of our pitchers would be obligated to retaliate and face suspension (maybe not since we are on pace to hit fewer batters than in many years going back to 2000 at least, despite our batters being hit at the highest rate since the same period). Also, for a guy relying on his legs as much as Coco, and pitchers known not to hit their spots, he could as likely taken the pitch on a knee. I do not blame anyone who intentionally gets thrown at from taking matters into his own hands instead of leaving it to someone else to take action, and punishment for doing so.

Plus the benefit is he gets the other teams best starting pitcher out of the game early.

Must be something in the water.

Also, Coco had 17 KO in 17 amateur fights, according to Bradford.

[E5 Yaz]

Must be something in the water.

Or ...

Coco takes his base, doesn't retaliate, doesn't get thrown out and probably get suspended, which means Ellsbury doesn't move to CF and nearly break his wrist. Sure, they won the game; but the Sox finished with an outfield of Carter-Drew-Youkilis, which is no one's idea of a good thing.

Again, Shields did what he should have done for Coco's assinine takeout slide Wednesday night, followed by his assinine comments. Praising Crisp for acting like a punk missing the point

[octoberaroma]

If it was already known that Coco would be targeted, why wouldn't he be spoken to by Tito before the game about not charging the mound if and when he gets hit by a pitch? Isn't it the managers responcibility to foresee that this was going to happen? If Shields threw at his head I suppose that's one thing. But Coco was hit on the leg. He knew he had it coming too. He should have been warned prior by the staff to just take first base. Is Francona that soft on players that he wouldn't say something to Coco beforehand?

[FenwayWhalers]

Crisps post game interview didn't help things. He was laughing about it and calling them girls for pulling his hair. He said they fought like "little girls" quite a few times.

What is he in 6th grade?

The Rays played this right- Coco got hit on the leg like he should have been and the score was then settled- all was even. End of story.

Instead Coco acted like a Neanderthal and charged after Shields. How can he be so dumb- especially with Ortiz out.

It reminded me of being in a bar and some 30 year drunk idiot starts fights with people "You wanna take this outside?!" and all anyone can think is "how old is this guy?" - his post game conference only solidified that feeling.

[Razor Shines]

I think it was sort of idiotic for Shields/Maddon to do this in the second inning, when they were already down 3 runs. Shields is their ace right now, 10th in the league in ERA. The Rays are actually in contention for once, and they take their best starter out of at least 2 games? That's something the last place Rays of old would do.
They essentially gave away the game, the sweep, and first place. I could see them wanting to hit Coco, but they should have at least waited until the later innings when one of their relievers was in the game.

Not to mention Shields throwing a wild right cross with his pitching arm, and then admitting intent to reporters after the game...this guy is apparently not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Edited by Razor Shines, 06 June 2008 - 05:19 AM.