95 replies to this topic

[CaptainLaddie]

There's a few out there, but none are very pretty.

1 - Barry Bonds. Workout legend. Can hit the living crap out of the baseball. Has some legal troubles. Currently a free agent.
2 - Chris Carter. Currently has a 908 OPS at AAA. Is 25.
3 - Sean Casey. Loved by many. Not much power. Probably not the long-term answer at 1B/DH/LF.
4 - Brandon Moss. Can hit for power... when in Japan. Had some appendix problems.

Good luck, Theo.

Edited by CaptainLaddie, 02 June 2008 - 08:41 PM.

[DieHard3]

Make Ramirez the DH, Brandon Moss is the new leftfielder. What can't happen is for Coco Crisp to replace David Ortiz in the lineup, which is unfortunately what I'm afraid we're going to have to suffer through until the lack of offense becomes too much to ignore.

Edited by DieHard3, 02 June 2008 - 08:51 PM.

[jsinger121]

Sign Barry Bonds. Yes he is a scumbag but he is the only one on that list who is capable of putting numbers up close to Ortiz's.

[pk1627]

This seriously sucks but the Sox survived a month of no Manny last year.

Ken Griffey Jr.

[Ananti]

I want no part of Bonds.

Talk to the Reds about Dunn or Griffey.

[rembrat]

Do not sign Barry Bonds. Look towards Chris Carter. He got off to a horrendous start power wise in April (.290/.355/.400) but has turned it on in May to the tune of a .352/.395/.686 with 10 HRs in 105 ABs. The Sox don't need an upgrade defensively in the outfield they need someone who can mash at DH.

[redinchicago]

Sign Barry Bonds. Yes he is a scumbag but he is the only one on that list who is capable of putting numbers up close to Ortiz's.

I don't think they do any major moves until Ortiz is lost for the year. In the meantime it should be Moss/Manny switching between DH/LF.

[E5 Yaz]

Work from within, for at least until the trade deadline. See what they have in Moss and/or Carter. The Yankees being suspect and the Rays being young affords the Red Sox time to act rationally. Make a major deal only if Papi is out for the season AND it appears that the offense can't keep producing on at least an average level.

Say no, no, a million times no to Bonds

[NomarRS05]

Nobody seems to like Helton, mainly because of the contract. But if we're looking for an "Abreu-type," Helton always posts an OBP over .400 and is doing so again in 2008. He's also not a complete black hole power-wise. Just throwing it out there.

[glennhoffmania]

Nobody seems to like Helton, mainly because of the contract. But if we're looking for an "Abreu-type," Helton always posts an OBP over .400 and is doing so again in 2008. He's also not a complete black hole power-wise. Just throwing it out there.

No no no. That puts Youks in LF for now, and then next year what do they do? Pass on albatross contracts.

[Drocca]

Would Bonds play here? I know he has nowhere else, but he has not shown an affinity for Boston in the past.

I mean, he's under Federal Investigation. I really don't think he's an option. Could be wrong, of course.

[E5 Yaz]

Now, if I were going to play the other side of the coin and argue against myself, I'd say make a push for Matt Holiday, who is not only due for a big deal shortly, but can play LF in Fenway and had the national mediots mongering that he's available.

[bsj]

He's been a black hole since 2006, but the slow starting Mariners are actively shopping Richie Sexson. He could probably be had very cheaply,for obvious reason.

Edited by bsj, 02 June 2008 - 09:14 PM.

[NomarRS05]

He's been a black hole since 2006, but the slow starting Mariners are actively shopping Richie Sexson,

.277 OBP, .200 batting average in 2008. Nobody is contributing to the Mariners' suck more than Sexson

edit: and 53 K's already this season. 53!

Edited by NomarRS05, 02 June 2008 - 09:15 PM.

[Ananti]

And also remember we aren't restricted to only improving one slot.

Bring up Lowrie and Moss, Lowrie+Moss is not that much worse than Lugo+Ortiz.

[JimD]

Deserved or not, Barry Bonds would never get a fair shake in Boston - I'd honestly rather take our chances with other options and possibly miss the playoffs than have a season ruined that way.

[URI]

Helton currently plays 1st base, and the Sox have like 15 internal options who can do it much cheaper.
Holiday is currently on the DL.
Sexson is currently fucking awful.

Come on people...think.

[SoxScout]

He's been a black hole since 2006, but the slow starting Mariners are actively shopping Richie Sexson. He could probably be had very cheaply,for obvious reason.

Depending on the prospect it should be explored, same with Griffey, what about Catalanotto?

Jason Bay would be a sweet wild card and could be looked at as a replacement for Manny next year. Last year looks like an aberration for him.

4 years/$18.25M (2006-09)
06:$0.75M, 07:$3.25M, 08:$5.75M, 09:$7.5M

Edited by SoxScout, 02 June 2008 - 09:20 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

Holiday is currently on the DL

Well, that's why I was wrong to argue against myself in the first place. I retreat to my intial stance

[Paul M]

It's best to improve LF in this process and keep Manny fresh as a DH. I don't want to go so heavy on defense, but I see a chance to improve LF defense, at least on the road. I don't see any moves coming until July, if at all. They are not going to panic and in July LF/DH types will be available. In a way, better to happen now than in August given the interleague play in June. Not going to be easy to make up for it, but if it's just for June, they'll manage ok.

[Fratboy]

If Papi's done for the year, order the barcalounger.

He gives the team a better chance to win. I'll gladly take wins over Chris Carter, Brandon Moss, or whatever replacement level options are freely available. Besides, it'd be fascinating to see if he can put up Playstation numbers in the American League.

Otherwise, Brandon Moss gets a full audition as future trade bait.

I do like the Bay idea, though.

Edited by Fratboy, 02 June 2008 - 09:23 PM.

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I know Bonds is widely regarded as the poster boy for PEDs and his surly attitude doesn't do the guy any good. But people forget that he was one hell of a baseball player even pre-(alleged)PED use. At 44 (in July), he is a long shot to still be effective but its worth thinking about for the Sox if Ortiz is out for the season. After all, he doesn't cost anything but money.

And for every Sox purist who would be turned off by the impure Bonds in a Sox uniform, there are likely just as many people who would like to see it if only out of morbid curiosity.

[CaptainLaddie]

ESPN says the Sox are about to release a statement to clarify the Ortiz situation. This should be interesting to see if it's different from the report from the Herald.

[Bowlerman9]

And also remember we aren't restricted to only improving one slot.

Bring up Lowrie and Moss, Lowrie+Moss is not that much worse than Lugo+Ortiz.

Why do we need Ortiz to be hurt to improve at SS? What does one have to do with another?

[E5 Yaz]

ESPN says the Sox are about to release a statement to clarify the Ortiz situation. This should be interesting to see if it's different from the report from the Herald.

I hope TMazz didn't use Tomase's sources

[OCD SS]

Nobody seems to like Helton, mainly because of the contract. But if we're looking for an "Abreu-type," Helton always posts an OBP over .400 and is doing so again in 2008. He's also not a complete black hole power-wise. Just throwing it out there.

I posted it in the game thread, but it bears repeating here: Helton is hitting .282/.410/.422 this year. At the beginning of '07 you could write off his loss of power in '06 as the result of his illness, but after he only slugged .494 last year, the decline trend is more obvious. When you factor that into his contract (nevermind having to deal with Monfort again) he gets to be too much risk, especially for an aging player signed for (very) longterm. I also think that after last year's run he pretty much came out and said he would finish his career in Colorado.

I can see the value in either Carter or Moss. I have to admit that I'd be very curious to see a more even OF defense, with Moss hopefully making up for some value with better play in LF.

[Paul M]

Oh, and here are two options:

Adam Lind--pros, LH; con, not very good defensively, but ok
Matt Murton--pros--fits Sox system and they like him of course; cons, no arm and RH


I have hardly any issue at all with Barry Bonds and think he's one of the 4 or 5 best ever, but I say there's no chance in hell the Sox make that leap. I'd like to see it, though.

[satyadaimoku]

Yeah, remember that we have two DHs on this team, one of them just happens to be playing left field. Losing one DH allows us to put Manny back at his natural position, and an average defensive LF makes up for a chunk of the lost offense. I don't see how Bonds is any worse than any other PED user. Can he play left?

We're not going to make a move until we know what Ortiz' status is for certain.

[OCD SS]

Why do we need Ortiz to be hurt to improve at SS? What does one have to do with another?

Spreading the lost offense around a couple different spots in the batting order. No one player can replace Tiz (well, Barry probably could, but I don't think anyone is interested in that), so the idea would be to keep the team offense consistient. Of course if is sacks the defense, it's not helping that much...

Does Carter + Lowrie = Ortiz + Lugo?

[Drocca]

Bring Moss up as the 4th OF. Ellsbury/Coco/Drew.

Manny as DH. With the defensive upgrade we end up not losing that much wins wise.

One man's opinion.

(Especially if it is just for a month. If it is for more, then we need to discuss if this team has a legitimate shot at the whole thing, because that's the only way you make a move similiar to the one the thread title sugests.)

[NomarRS05]

Spreading the lost offense around a couple different spots in the batting order. No one player can replace Tiz (well, Barry probably could, but I don't think anyone is interested in that), so the idea would be to keep the team offense consistient. Of course if is sacks the defense, it's not helping that much...

Does Carter + Lowrie = Ortiz + Lugo?

The point is, one has nothing to do with the other. If the brass thought Lowrie could play SS every day, he probably would have been by now. Now, if we want to talk about trade options for non-DH position players (like SS), that's another discussion. But the Red Sox don't seem to think Lowrie is ready for whatever reason.

[saintnick912]

I think we'll see a lot more of Manny at DH, Ellsbury in LF, and Moss as the roving 4th OF. The Sox had a logjam of 4 starting OF in 3 positions. Can never have too much pitching, or hitters.

[Remagellan]

If this management is as smart as they are supposed to be, they'll avail themselves of the best option, which is to sign Bonds. I could care less about worrying about the whole "circus" aspect of the signing as this is a veteran team that should be able to deal with whatever issues his baggage creates in the clubhouse--and I think that stuff is exaggerated anyway. And I have a feeling the fan base would embrace him if he produces.

My only concern is how long it would take him to get game ready.

[Paul M]

Three more ideas:

Raul Ibanez--lousy, lousy with the glove, but LH bat that would help

Brian Giles--very good OB guy, would be pretty good in LF; San Diego needs to re-tool

And way out of the box idea: Matt LaPorta. It would cost Masterson and maybe Bard or Bowden though, but just thinking a little crazy here.


Again, though, I see them trying every "free" option they can until they can figure out when/if Ortiz is coming back. But, personally, if surgery is more than 50% likely, I'd rather they do it quickly and not have the Nomar in 2001 type situation.

[MannysDestination]

I'd like to see what Chris Carter can do, if just for a little while. He's already on the 40-man, has put up a 316//372/536 line so far in AAA with 10 HR in 56 games (5 HR in the last 10 games). As mentioned, he's 25, played LF, and is already cost controlled - if not now when would you ever give him a shot?

[Drocca]

Three more ideas:

Raul Ibanez--lousy, lousy with the glove, but LH bat that would help

Brian Giles--very good OB guy, would be pretty good in LF; San Diego needs to re-tool

And way out of the box idea: Matt LaPorta. It would cost Masterson and maybe Bard or Bowden though, but just thinking a little crazy here.
Again, though, I see them trying every "free" option they can until they can figure out when/if Ortiz is coming back. But, personally, if surgery is more than 50% likely, I'd rather they do it quickly and not have the Nomar in 2001 type situation.

Obviously, we'd love to get our hands on that talent, but does that help this year? I assume, since we are talking about Ortiz out for a month, and in the worst case scenerio season ending surgery we are talking about this year.

[E5 Yaz]

If this management is as smart as they are supposed to be, they'll avail themselves of the best option, which is to sign Bonds.

My only concern is how long it would take him to get game ready.

That would depend on how much training he can get in during those 15-minute exercise periods

[OCD SS]

And way out of the box idea: Matt LaPorta. It would cost Masterson and maybe Bard or Bowden though, but just thinking a little crazy here.

Funny you should mention that.

[rmurph3]

You can debate the appropriateness of Holliday as a solution, there are certainly two sides to that coin. But don't dismiss the entire concept just because he's on the DL... it's a fairly minor pulled hamstring, he's due to go on a rehab stint later this week and is on track to return early next week, after missing the min. 15 days.

[Foulkey Reese]

Just for the record, Ortiz isn't exactly done for the season yet

BALTIMORE - David Ortiz is heading to the DL and will likely be out for at least a month.

The Sox DH had an MRI at Mass General earlier today and it was learned he had an extensor carpi ulnaris partially torn sheath of his left wrist which is basically what holds the tendon in place according to what Terry Francona told the media after the game.

The tendon itself is not torn.

Francona said that no surgery was needed.

Team sources also indicated Ortiz will be in a hard cast and immobilized for two weeks. It will take another 10 days to two weeks to likely begin swinging the bat and getting back into playing condition. The injury is not considered common.

They aren't going to go trade for Holliday or Dunn if Ortiz might be back around the all star break.

They'll figure something out internally and probably give guys like Moss and Carter a shot. Be prepared to see a lot of Coco and Casey in the coming weeks.

Edited by Foulkey Reese, 02 June 2008 - 09:39 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

This isn't anything close to Nomar in 2001, mainly because of what happened in 2004 and 2007. Patience is what is prescribed here, especially over the next 6 weeks. Yes, Papi's injury and Manny's age/contract bring the future closer in focus, but that doesn't mean panic trades or crap-against-the-wall solutions. if that was how this management team operated, Ellsbury, Lester, Masterson and Lowrie would be in Minnesota

[Paul M]

That medical report could have been worse, but that sounds pretty bad at the same time. No need to make a desperate deal, but that's kind of ominous to me.

[Lynchie]

Knee jerk reaction to missing Ortiz would be to make a deal. I think that the best move is none for a hitter. The fact is that bullpen help is what is needed still. Defense, speed and pitching is the key in the interim. The Sox have pop in that line-up yet. Papi puts them over the top it is true, now later when he comes back. For now, time to use the base tools the team already has. The players have to take stock of themselves collectively and do the little things they can do and do them well. They will be alright. Look for an arm to help Okajima and the like get to Paps. Heck, they may already have that from what I've seen.

[Kevin Youkulele]

Well, now any team trading a hitter will be looking to gouge the Sox since they're perceived as having a clear need--another reason to wait a bit. It may be that they become desperate in fact, but that won't change their negotiating position that much.

[Hairps]

As mentioned previously by others, if a deal's to be done I wouldn't mind seeing us shed some LHH OF excess at whatever reasonable price it might take to get Matt Murton back. Certainly not some of the pricier options, though, from a talent perspective.

Bonds would be fine, I guess, but I really don't see this as a huge deal.

Manny is our DH and we'll just have to properly manage our OF depth, play matchups, and decide when OF defense should be at a premium.

Edited by Hairps, 02 June 2008 - 10:13 PM.

[Kevin Youkulele]

Brandon Moss is on a hot streak after coming back from the appendectomy, with an OPS of 1.298 in 10 games in May according to his adopt a prospect thread here. Bailey has shown a nice eye while he's been up, but maybe the Moss hot streak should be ridden out at the MLB level? Does Crisp throw a fit if Moss leapfrogs him on the depth chart, and do we care?

[Talon]

If Ortiz will be out somewhat longterm, the best external option would probably be Adam Dunn.

He does have a full no trade for about the next 2 or so weeks, then has a limited no trade, Boston is one of the teams that he would accept a trade to per that limited no trade

Pros: Dunn can rake the ball as we all know. Can play LF & DH plus he can pretend to play 1B. Would likely walk after the season and would also likely be a Type A Free Agent, meaning we'd get some nice compensation. URI's favorite player.

Cons: Strikeouts obviously an issue, would likely cost us one of Bard/Kris Johnson and one of the catching prospects (Kottaras, Wagner, Brown)

Having said, if Ortiz is going to be out longterm, then I don't see why we don't pursue him as it would be win/win for all interested parties.

[OCD SS]

The point is, one has nothing to do with the other. If the brass thought Lowrie could play SS every day, he probably would have been by now. Now, if we want to talk about trade options for non-DH position players (like SS), that's another discussion. But the Red Sox don't seem to think Lowrie is ready for whatever reason.

I don't think that's quite accurate (just ask Gammons); right now IMO it only looks like the Sox have decided that Lugo's contract is not something they're going to swallow hole. Ortiz being out changes the calculus (as does the length of time he's out): with Ortiz, the Sox can afford to carry Lugo more than they can if they're moving Carter or Moss into a full time offensive role (although it's less of an issue if it's only for a month).

Luckily the team is entering into a softer part of it's schedule in the coming Month, but I really worry about just how accuratly they manage to diagnose the timeline on these sorts of injuries; at least they won't keep him off the DL for 10 days and then decide the move is necessary, but I doubt Tiz is back before the ASB. (Edit: although it's nice to see the optomistic headline from Red Sox.com of Ortiz to miss at least a couple of weeks with a torn wrist tendon." )

Edited by OCD SS, 02 June 2008 - 10:38 PM.

[Pumpsie]

Brandon Moss is on a hot streak after coming back from the appendectomy, with an OPS of 1.298 in 10 games in May according to his adopt a prospect thread here. Bailey has shown a nice eye while he's been up, but maybe the Moss hot streak should be ridden out at the MLB level? Does Crisp throw a fit if Moss leapfrogs him on the depth chart, and do we care?

I think that some of you guys are overthinking this. Moss replaces Ortiz on the roster for a month. Manny gets to practice his DH'ing for four weeks (he seems to be having no problem with it if the last two games are any indication). Moss, Carter, and Bailey have all been hitting the ball well for the PawSox recently. There are plenty of in-house solutions to this problem. There's no reason to make a trade. If, OTOH, it turns out that Papi will be lost for the season, they'll have to revisit this but, even then, the answer might be Moss or Carter.

[redinchicago]

Cons: Strikeouts obviously an issue, would likely cost us one of Bard/Kris Johnson and one of the catching prospects (Kottaras, Wagner, Brown)

If that's all it takes to get Dunn, sign me up. It would have to be more than that.