[bigyazbread]

One less replacement for Javier Lopez.

Rotoworld

This post has been edited by bigyazbread: 12 May 2008 - 10:23 AM

[Nuf Ced]

Quote

...veteran Abe Alvarez was released after the game. Alvarez, once a legitimate prospect, has struggled. He was moved from the starting rotation to the bullpen this year, but the soft-throwing lefty had a 6.46 earned-run average in 13 games.

http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/sp_bb_...v7.38ed8a5.html

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

That's a big miss on a 2nd rounder, I'd have to say.

Alvarez was good in his first season at AA, but regressed steadily ever since then. Maybe he'll get another shot down the road from someone else, but I can't see him making it at this point. I'm sure Bryan Corey was told that multiple times, so maybe Abe will prove everyone wrong.

[bigyazbread]

Was Abe on the 40 man? redsox.com lists 38 on the 40 man, plus Curt Schilling. Could this mean another deal is brewing? I mean, other than getting Bartolo Colon on the 40 man.


Edit: Thanks Paulie and AMFox

This post has been edited by bigyazbread: 12 May 2008 - 11:00 AM

[Buzzkill Pauley]

bigyazbread, on May 12 2008, 11:44 AM, said:

Was Abe on the 40 man? redsox.com lists 38 on the 40 man, plus Curt Schilling. Could this mean another deal is brewing? I mean, other than getting Bartolo Colon on the 40 man.

No, Abe was taken off the 40-man when he was outrighted in 2006.

[amfox1]

No, Abe was not on the 40 man. And, yes, it was a big miss but he was likely selected for his ability to move fast not because he had a high ceiling. He was thought to be a back-end starter at best, even when drafted.

[mt8thsw9th]

Smiling Joe Hesketh, on May 12 2008, 11:39 AM, said:

That's a big miss on a 2nd rounder, I'd have to say.

Didn't philly have a big write-up on Abe and the risk of drafting starters with middling K rates with such high picks shortly after he was drafted? Another log on the fire, I suppose.

As a 20 year old coming out of a strong baseball conference, I (and I'm sure others) held out hope that there was room for growth. After his debut in full season ball as a 21 year old in AA, he seemed to be on his way to being at least the very least a solid number 4 or 5 by putting up an ERA of 3.66 over 135 1/3 innings, with a 3+:1 K:BB. The wheels, of course, then fell off at AAA the following season, and he's been just bad since, being demoted to the bullpen, and losing the command that was seemingly intact through his 2005 season (and his one real strength as a soft-tossing lefty). It's just strange that he was able to make a successful leap to AA, and then regress in AAA. It seems like the biggest problem for many prospects with his lack of strikeouts tend to take the biggest hit when they move up the ladder from A ball to AA.

He's still just 25 now, with a WS ring and a few years of college under his belt. He'll probably land on his feet. I'm guessing, though, at this point baseball probably isn't the best path for him. His one redeeming quality at this point is being able to throw left-handed. Maybe he'll kick around for a while and finally break through in the majors one day (see Tony Fossas).

[Cuzittt]

He is a left-handed pitcher. If he is willing to keep going, some team is going to take a flier on him. If that team utilizes a TRUE LOOGY, he may be able to succeed in that position.

This season, against LHH he has held them to 4 hits (3 singles, 1 double) in 23 Plate Appearance. He has walked 4. (.174/.296/.217). Against RHH, his line was .308/.413/.564.

I don't have access to last season's splits, but I recall that they were similar.

[xjack]

Cuzittt, on May 12 2008, 12:23 PM, said:

He is a left-handed pitcher. If he is willing to keep going, some team is going to take a flier on him. If that team utilizes a TRUE LOOGY, he may be able to succeed in that position.

This season, against LHH he has held them to 4 hits (3 singles, 1 double) in 23 Plate Appearance. He has walked 4. (.174/.296/.217). Against RHH, his line was .308/.413/.564.

I don't have access to last season's splits, but I recall that they were similar.

He did have good LH splits over the years, so I'm surprised this role didn't work for him.

It is a big miss for a second rounder, but I'll remember Alvarez fondly if only for the humiliation he (indirectly) heaped on one of the WEEI dunces (I think it was Dale and Holley) after they criticized Alvarez for trying to look like some kind of a gang-banger by wearing his hat to one side. As I recall, there were some big mea culpas after someone informed them that he does that to reduce the glare in his left (legally blind) eye.

I may be remembering this wrong, but I'm sure someone out there remembers the particulars.

[CaptainLaddie]

NATIONALLY there were a lot of mea culpas for that one. It was great hearing overnight hosts on nationally syndicated sports radio programs taking their lumps over that. Loved it.

Edit - basically a host of a show went on the air and ripped Abe for wearing his hat like a "gangbanger". I think it was Abe's doctor actually called in to tell him that Abe was blind in one eye and had to do that in order to see the man at first when in the stretch (or something like that) because he couldn't see otherwise.

Host backed down VERY quickly. I want to say it wasn't EEI, but rather something like Fox Sports Radio on a nationally syndicated overnight show.

This post has been edited by CaptainLaddie: 12 May 2008 - 12:58 PM

[OttoC]

Cuzittt, on May 12 2008, 12:23 PM, said:

He is a left-handed pitcher. If he is willing to keep going, some team is going to take a flier on him. If that team utilizes a TRUE LOOGY, he may be able to succeed in that position.

This season, against LHH he has held them to 4 hits (3 singles, 1 double) in 23 Plate Appearance. He has walked 4. (.174/.296/.217). Against RHH, his line was .308/.413/.564.

I don't have access to last season's splits, but I recall that they were similar.

It's small sample size, but with the Red Sox Alvarez faced left-handed batters to the tune of .500 AVG/1.415 OPS

[HighHeat]

CaptainLaddie, on May 12 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

I think it was Abe's doctor actually called in to tell him that Abe was blind in one eye and had to do that in order to see the man at first when in the stretch (or something like that) because he couldn't see otherwise.

As opposed to "Crooked Cap" who just wears it that way because he's a tool.



I recall most of the players on the bench wearing their caps sideways when Alvarez came up and made that one start in 2004. That was funny.

Too bad it didn't work out for the kid.

[SaveBooFerriss]

Smiling Joe Hesketh, on May 12 2008, 03:39 PM, said:

That's a big miss on a 2nd rounder, I'd have to say.

The Sox will have misses going forward, but I doubt they ever take a guy like Abe in the 2nd round (soft tossing college pitcher). I'm pretty sure their misses will look more like Mickey Hall or Jon Egan.

[CaptainLaddie]

And at least they aren't the ones who drafted Matt Bush.

[Quintanariffic]

CaptainLaddie, on May 12 2008, 03:08 PM, said:

And at least they aren't the ones who drafted Matt Bush.

Seriously. This was a miss, but not a "big miss". The statistics tell us that the expected value of a 2nd round pick is pretty much what Abe gave us. In fact, the fact that he made it to provide even a single start is probably further than most 2nd round pitchers do. I'll be interested to hear Philly's take here, but my sense is that Abe produced just about average results for his slot.

I'd define John Curtice, Corey Jenkins, Josh Garrett, Andy Yount, Mark Fischer, Rick Asadoorian, Brad Baker and Phil Dumatrait as "big miss(es)". Those guys were all picked in the 1st or Supplemental rounds, and that's only a list since 1995. Theo wanted to inject some talent to the upper levels quickly, took a chance that Abe's stuff would play up to a back end rotation starter, and it didn't work out. No biggie.

[saintnick912]

Quintanariffic, on May 12 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

Phil Dumatrait as "big miss

Baseball Reference Page

He's having an ok year for the Pirates so far, and brought back Scott Williamson in trade who was pretty huge for us in '03. The others, I agree with in various ways.

Philly's draft study showed a big dropoff after the first round, and basically concluded that you're lucky to get anything out of even a low first rounder, so this can't be considered that big a a deal.

[CaptainLaddie]

Abe Alvarez actually got to the big leagues.

Meanwhile Jason Neighborgall is out of baseball.

[mr guido]

I'd say the Sox got decent value out of that '03 draft when they drafted some dude named Jonathan Papelbon in the 4th round.

Aardsma was the 22nd pick in that draft, so it's kind of like the Sox traded up.

So long to my favorite baseball player named "Abe". That's all I got.

[bellyofthebeast]

Quintanariffic, on May 12 2008, 02:37 PM, said:

I'd define John Curtice, Corey Jenkins, Josh Garrett, Andy Yount, Mark Fischer, Rick Asadoorian, Brad Baker and Phil Dumatrait as "big miss(es)". Those guys were all picked in the 1st or Supplemental rounds, and that's only a list since 1995.

Dumatrait isn't quite dead yet. Even if it was the Giants, he pitched reasonably well against them last week.

[curly2]

Quintanariffic, on May 12 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

I'd define John Curtice, Corey Jenkins, Josh Garrett, Andy Yount, Mark Fischer, Rick Asadoorian, Brad Baker and Phil Dumatrait as "big miss(es)". Those guys were all picked in the 1st or Supplemental rounds, and that's only a list since 1995.

The '97 draft was definitely a dark day. The Sox had four picks in the first two rounds thanks to compensation picks for Clemens and took Curtice, Fischer, Arron Capista and Eric Glaser. It's not quite the haul Theo got with the extra picks in 2005.

That 1997 draft also included Travis Harper and his voided contract the third round, David Eckstein in the 18th round and their final pick, in the 45th round, Joe Thurston.