Jump to content


Yo! You're not logged in. Why am I seeing this ad?

Photo

4/16/08 Game Analysis New York 15 Boston 9


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
31 replies to this topic

#1 Smiling Joe Hesketh


  • now batting steve sal hiney. the leftfielder, hiney


  • 25,702 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 07:33 AM

C'mon, we can't just have these only when the Sox win. I want to start by talking about Buchholz' outing.

Last night I thought Buchholz made a couple of major mistakes, and had some crappy luck to go along with that. The HR to Abreu was a very bad pitch, a straight fastball up in the zone and over the plate that Abreu just killed. It was a mistake pitch. The HR to ARod in the next AB was actually on a pretty good pitch I thought, a fastball on the outside part of the plate. ARod's such a good hitter that he was able to catch up to it and put a charge in it, but it wasn't a bad pitch at all. Sometimes you just have to tip your hat.

The 4th was a different story. Buchholz was quite close to getting out of the inning unscathed; with 2 on and 2 out it certainly appeared that he had thrown strike 3 to Moeller. McClelland, who was having a bad night behind the plate, called it a ball. Moeller then battled him and finally got an extremely cheap bloop double to left field which scored 2 runs. That's very bad luck for Buchholz.

Buchholz appeared to then get extremely frustrated and started overthrowing, walking Cabrera and going 3-1 on Jeter. Here's where he and Tek committed a big sin: with the count 3-1 on Jeter everyone in the world knew that a fastball was coming. I was watching the game with 3 Maine SoSHers at this point and was screaming for Clay to throw the change since the fastball was so predictable. Nope, he threw the fastball right over the plate and Jeter, who dives out over the plate to drive outside pitches, actually jammed himself a bit on it but still drove it into RF for 2 runs. A very poor pitching sequence there and I wonder how much of it was due to frustration and lack of experience on Clay's part. That was the end of his night. With rookie pitchers you can see the learning curve at work and Buchholz/Tek failed their test last night in terms of pitching strategy. Hopefully they'll learn from it.

It's too bad that both times that the Sox had scored Clay handed it back in the bottom of the same inning.

#2 JimRiceHOFer

  • 593 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 07:50 AM

Buchholz did seem a little unnerved pitching in the Toilet last night. Hopefully it was just rookie jitters for his first start there. One solace I take from last night's game was that we battered around the "Ace" of the Yankees staff, and they beat up on our 4th/5th starter.

One comment/analysis from Joe Morgan that came up, which I agreed with, was his discussion of Papi's batting stance/swing and how it is different comparing the 2006 Papi to the current one.

I commented that he seemd to be a little off balance and diving toward the ball a couple games ago. Morgan's side by side video analysis showed Papi being a little too forward and off balance during his swing.

I'm sure this probably has to do with Papi making slight adjustments to his swing last year when he was hurting to compensate for his knee, and maybe he still isn't feeling 100% sure of the knee since the surgery.

#3 Rudy Pemberton


  • Just a string of characters


  • 28,413 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:00 AM

I'm getting more concerned about Papi each day; he just looks awful. I think a lot of this is likely mental; he's trying to add two hundred points to his batting average every time up there.

Buchholz's outing was a reminder that he's a rookie and going to take his lumps, what discouraged me the most was the continued piss-poor outings by Tavarez and Timlin.

We've already DFA'd two pitchers from the relief corp, and there's three other guys still down there who have been bad to awful. That's a little worrisome.

Once the Sox had that 9-7 lead, Tavarez needed to come up big and he imploded.

#4 NickEsasky


  • Code Name: Duchess


  • 6,887 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:06 AM

I thought that the pitch to ARod was a meatball too. Way too much plate and belt high.

Buchholz doesn't have enough giddy up on his fastball to live with it if he's not getting his other pitches over for strikes. He probably had some nerves going, and it showed because his secondary stuff was inconsistent. And we all know the Yankees line-up is just too good if you don't bring your A game. He got himself behind a few times, they fouled off a lot of tough pitches as per usual and he just didn't have the bullets last night to put them away. It happens.

Tavarez is what Tavarez is at this point, but Timlin is certainly not allaying any fears that he isn't toast at this point.

#5 Snodgrass'Muff


  • smarter as Lucen


  • 20,984 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:14 AM

Regarding Buchholz, I wasn't that disappointed with him. He came into the game obviously a bit affected by the environment/situation as he was not sharp in the first inning. There isn't any justification for how he pitched the first frame other than he simply wasn't good. But he settled down and was pitching pretty well until that non-strike three call in the fourth. I was impressed that he got himself together and managed to pitch well despite not being able to locate his fastball and being pretty much without his curveball.

I probably would have been rattled by the non-strike in the fourth too, so I can't really get too upset about that. Hopefully as he gets older he'll learn to maintain better composure in those situations, but he's a rookie. These things happen. Not a great outing for him by any means, but there were things to be encouraged by.

The graph for this game over at fangraphs.com is pretty interesting to look at. Link. My initial reaction was to explode at Timlin for his absolute failure on the mound last night and just toss a dirty look Tavarez's way, saying "Tavarez will have appearances like tonight, but he has some really good ones too." But looking at the graph the game was essentially over by the time Timlin took the mound. The Red Sox were roughly 90% likely to lose the game before he took the mound.

On the other hand, the Sox were about 75% likely to win it when Tavarez took the mound in the 5th and almost 80% likely to lose by the time that half inning ended. What's really interesting is that in the span of about an inning the Yankees went from almost 85% likely to in, to 75% likely to lose back to 80% likely to win again. The game was really decided between the last out of the 4th inning and the first out of the 6th.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 17 April 2008 - 08:48 AM.


#6 Kevin Youkulele


  • wishes Claude Makelele was a Red Sox


  • 1,673 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:23 AM

I don't think Tavarez was a fresh arm and given Aardsma's ability to go 2 innings, maybe a better strategy would have been to have Tavarez get out of the 4th but then use Aardsma for the 5th and 6th, mixing in Lopez, Timlin, MDC to get through the 8th. It was pretty strange having Remy calling for Tavarez to be yanked the way he did; I guess Tito's thought was that either Tavarez preserves the lead or he doesn't because the team was not going to risk blowing out the whole bullpen. Of course this is all academic if Timlin still blows up, and this is not the sort of game where you can avoid using at least one of Timlin and Tavarez. At least we didn't burn any good relievers.

#7 behindthepen


  • SoSH Member


  • 5,907 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:26 AM

The 4th was a different story. Buchholz was quite close to getting out of the inning unscathed; with 2 on and 2 out it certainly appeared that he had thrown strike 3 to Moeller. McClelland, who was having a bad night behind the plate, called it a ball. Moeller then battled him and finally got an extremely cheap bloop double to left field which scored 2 runs. That's very bad luck for Buchholz.

Buchholz appeared to then get extremely frustrated and started overthrowing, walking Cabrera and going 3-1 on Jeter. Here's where he and Tek committed a big sin: with the count 3-1 on Jeter everyone in the world knew that a fastball was coming.


I think the whole thing came apart when Buch/Tek decided to nibble against Moeller, a guy who has barely crossed the Mendoza line in the last 5 years.

Post-game, Buchholz said he made the pitch he wanted vs. Jeter on 3-1. It was typical good hitting by CI, but by then we knew we were dipping into the shallow bullpen anyway.

I won't even start on the umpiring.

#8 Smiling Joe Hesketh


  • now batting steve sal hiney. the leftfielder, hiney


  • 25,702 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:29 AM

I think the whole thing came apart when Buch/Tek decided to nibble against Moeller, a guy who has barely crossed the Mendoza line in the last 5 years.

Post-game, Buchholz said he made the pitch he wanted vs. Jeter on 3-1. It was typical good hitting by CI, but by then we knew we were dipping into the shallow bullpen anyway.

I won't even start on the umpiring.

If that was the pitch he wanted to make to Jeter, Clay's got a ton of learning to do about pitching at the major league level. That thing was a meatball.

The Moeller at bat was a bunch of bad things coming together at once for Buchholz. He had him K'd, only to not get the call. He sawed him off later in the AB, only to have Moeller drop the cheapest of bloop hits in there. Just a lot of bad luck. The problem came after that AB, when Buchholz clearly got frustrated and lost his command. That's immaturity/lack of experience, and hopefully a he'll learn from it. But his comment about making the pitch he wanted to Jeter worries me, because it was both a terrible choice of pitch and grooved right down the middle.

#9 Foulkey Reese


  • foulkiavelli


  • 20,186 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:38 AM

Well we get Moose vs Beckett tonight with Oki, MDC, and Paps availible.

If they can win tonight then they will have taken 3/4 on the road against Cleveland and New York, which is pretty impressive.

I would absolutely love to see Lowrie get a shot at SS tonight considering how awful Lugo's looked on both offense and defense recently.

On a positive note, Sean Casey really seems to have been the perfect signing as they really haven't missed a beat with Lowell on the DL.

#10 Paul M


  • SoSH Member


  • 10,381 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:39 AM

SJH, good idea to have this and consolidate all our concerns and overreactions

That side-by-side analysis actually was kind of frightening how gingerly he's approaching the ball. Offense wasn't the issue last night, of course, but I want to see Ortiz when he gets back to Fenway to make some adjustments and use Fenway to his advantage.

Buchholz is going to be prone to giving up HRs I think, and we knew that coming in. I think he did ok and got squeezed a couple times that really hurt him. Pitching on the road and with runners on base are two things he'll have to improve on, but he has the stuff to stick in this rotation, imo.

Two other things:

1. I know it's a long season, but we don't seem to maximize this 7-man bullpen that well. Not one of the 7 is averaging more than 1.5 innings per appearance. Couple that with the fact we're not getting great IP/GS either, and it's a problem and games like last night will happen every few weeks. I've said it a hundred times but I can't understand why we have Lopez.

2. We miss Schilling if only to witness a pitcher who doesn't walk people. We have 78 BBs in 140 IP--that's 66% more walks than last year. Sure, it's still very early and I think it will go down, but Lester is going to have more walks than Schilling had all year in the next 2-3 starts. All these extra pitches and the inefficient pen raise the chances of injuries.

#11 TomRicardo


  • rusty cohlebone


  • 18,239 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:47 AM

I'm getting more concerned about Papi each day; he just looks awful. I think a lot of this is likely mental; he's trying to add two hundred points to his batting average every time up there.


Ortiz looked a lot better at the plate last night than he has all season. He still isn't to form but I feel more comfortable wth him now than I did a week ago.

Lugo blew that throw for his sixth error of the season. Thats a pace for sixty errors this season. I know he won't get sixty errors but he has been pretty bad this season so far. I wish they would sit him and his empty average more.

That umpire last night was terrible. When Michael Kay admits "Wow, that wasn't a strike." on a call third strike, thats a complete joke. Just for a point of reference Michael Kay thought Varitek was tagged out on his double.

#12 Quintanariffic

  • 4,416 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:48 AM

Was anyone else disappointed in the decision to relay home on the Posada hit at 9-7? I was at the game and any play to the plate with Matsui had to be perfect in order to get an out whereas Posada was dead to rights between 2nd and 3rd. I would have traded the sure out for the run, and happily pitched to Giambi with the bases empty, 2 outs, and a one run lead.

#13 smastroyin


  • simpering whimperer


  • 16,934 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:51 AM

Lugo blew that throw for his sixth error of the season. Thats a pace for sixty errors this season. I know he won't get sixty errors but he has been pretty bad this season so far. I wish they would sit him and his empty average more.


I know the call is never made, but the take out slide on that play was completely ridiculous and completely out of the context and intention of the rule. This is one I would like to see the umpires really start calling - and I am well aware that Kevin Youkilis might be the biggest offender in the game. That said, Lugo had no chance at turning the DP and should have held the damn ball. That is the one thing that really frustrates me. He makes the throw when he shouldn't (e.g., in bad position with a rushed motion and with little chance of getting the runner even with a perfect throw) a lot more than any other SS I've watched.

Lester and Buchholz are both going to require patience. I know it has been a long time since the Sox gave young pitchers a significant starting role (unless you count the Arroyo aberration) but this is what happens with young pitching more often than not. Of course, Lester is Lester but with Buchholz I have a feeling we are at that part of the movie where the phenom kid starts laying centerfolds and loses his edge. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it but it's a fun coincidence.

#14 86spike


  • Currently enjoying "Arli$$"


  • 22,142 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 08:54 AM

I continue to be completely baffled by the Magic of the 2008 Yankee Backup Catchers. Talk about some good karma!

I'll add to the chorus who's not overly bothered by Buchholz's game last night. McClelland was a major factor and I really think he was squeezing Clay (and being generous to NY) because he was pissed at Manny for arguing with him.

It's enough hard for a veteran to deal with Yankee Stadium, the Yankee lineup (who are just so incredibly good at fouling off pitches and grinding down pitchers) and a shit ump. A rookie will have an even bigger challenge.

Good signs for Clay: the Yankees couldn't do much of anything with his curve or changeup.

Now obviously Tavarez and Timlin were disasters last night... but Aardsma had another solid outing and we did pound the hell out of Wang. There are silver linings here.

#15 SaveBooFerriss


  • twenty foreskins


  • 6,121 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 09:00 AM

I'll add to the chorus who's not overly bothered by Buchholz's game last night. McClelland was a major factor and I really think he was squeezing Clay (and being generous to NY) because he was pissed at Manny for arguing with him.


I thought McClelland's strike zone was pretty good. ESPN's K-Zone show he was right on most of the borderline calls. But, his delayed strike calling, especially with Manny & Tek, should be unexcusable. Umps always complain about hitters or pitchers showing up the ump, but it shows up a hitter when you wait that long to ring him up. I thought it was very unprofessional.

#16 DJnVa


  • Yes


  • PipPipPipPip
  • 17,253 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 09:08 AM

I thought McClelland's strike zone was pretty good. ESPN's K-Zone show he was right on most of the borderline calls. But, his delayed strike calling, especially with Manny & Tek, should be unexcusable. Umps always complain about hitters or pitchers showing up the ump, but it shows up a hitter when you wait that long to ring him up. I thought it was very unprofessional.



I didn't like the strike calls either...as to whether the zone was good or not, ehh, Buchholz is a young pitcher in Yankee Stadium. Say what you will, but that matters...he's not going to get anything off the plate with any regularity. Maybe he wasn't squeezed, but if he thought he was, it's going to affect him. He had a few nice pitches that the Yankees spoiled or muscled into the OF for hits and that's going to happen. There's going to be growing pains.

#17 SawxSince67

  • 1,764 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 09:11 AM

I know the call is never made, but the take out slide on that play was completely ridiculous and completely out of the context and intention of the rule.

(Posted this in the game thread this AM)
Posted Image

Moeller had no chance of reaching that bag.

I though Lugo sidestepped out of the path to set himself properly for the throw and it appeared JT was covering. This could have happened.

Was JT not at the bag in time?

#18 rembrat


  • SoSH Member


  • 23,645 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 09:20 AM

Everything seems to have been covered about Buchholz' outing and for the most part I agree. On a positive note, I have to say it has been a real treat to watch Sean Casey bat so far. He is very conscious of the strike zone and whatever the situation you are almost guaranteed that he will make good to solid contact. His AB in the top of the 5th against Wang was a thing of beauty. That was a perfect example of a hitter just going with the pitch. Something I wish Ortiz would get back to doing.

And I'm pretty much done with Lugo. I wouldn't even mind if the Sox decided to eat the contract. Good riddance. I've seen 16 year olds with a better baseball IQ than him.

Edited by rembrat, 17 April 2008 - 09:21 AM.


#19 smastroyin


  • simpering whimperer


  • 16,934 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 09:26 AM

On the throw, he was maybe set, but the ball arrived very much later than the runner. Maybe a perfect throw gets the runner, or at least makes is a bang-bang play, but making a perfect throw to a pitcher covering (who will be a moving target who can't stretch) is really really hard. My pesonal feeling is that he had no shot and should have eaten the ball.

McClelland's calls always make me think that he wants to be part of the entertainment. I hate that in an umpire.

#20 Rook05

  • 1,515 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 09:28 AM

Was JT not at the bag in time?


That was my first thought as well, but the second reply clearly showed the ball going wide right and completely uncatchable for Tavarez. Tavarez himself looked a little bewildered that the ball was even thrown which made me think he took his eyes off the play, but who knows? I yelled at Lugo a few times last night (down on three pitches couldn't have been more predictable for me), so I suppose I'm not completely indifferent to him.

I agree with SJH on Clay. I like how he settled down after the first, and a handful of cheap hits ultimately did him in. Better than not being able to find the strike zone like Wang. It was a tough play, but if Pedroia comes up with the hard hit ball (in the fourth?) I think he makes it deeper into the game.

Edited by Rook05, 17 April 2008 - 09:30 AM.


#21 rembrat


  • SoSH Member


  • 23,645 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 10:34 AM

I was meaning to ask but I thought I saw a couple of sliders from Buchholz to RHH last night. Did any one else catch this?

#22 BCsMightyJoeYoung

  • 2,827 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 10:59 AM

One note on McLelland's pitch calling .. he always has given a very delayed call. However, (and this was pointed out by Leiter on the YES broadcast) , he usually gives an instant verbal queue to the catcher and hitter. So .. the slow calls tend to piss everybody else off but at least the hitter/catcher know the call right away.

HOWEVER .. that did not seem to be the case in the Manny called strikeout. McLelland's call was a good two seconds late - and was completely responsible for showing up Manny. I think that's why Manny didn't get tossed at the time. The ump realized he had created the situation and cut Ramirez quite a bit more slack than normal.

#23 jayhoz


  • browndog's marshmallow bitch


  • 12,161 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:27 AM

One note on McLelland's pitch calling .. he always has given a very delayed call. However, (and this was pointed out by Leiter on the YES broadcast) , he usually gives an instant verbal queue to the catcher and hitter. So .. the slow calls tend to piss everybody else off but at least the hitter/catcher know the call right away.

HOWEVER .. that did not seem to be the case in the Manny called strikeout. McLelland's call was a good two seconds late - and was completely responsible for showing up Manny. I think that's why Manny didn't get tossed at the time. The ump realized he had created the situation and cut Ramirez quite a bit more slack than normal.


Remy and Don said something to the effect that they assumed McLelland gave an instant verbal, but when they asked players prior to the game they said that was not the case.

I agree with the sentiments regarding enjoying watching Casey play. You can't knock the results so far. I don't think it has been that pretty however. He has swung at some balls way way inside. He also made a little league mistake when Tek got caught between third and home. Casey should have been standing on third.

#24 Foulkey Reese


  • foulkiavelli


  • 20,186 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:29 AM

What are you going to do?" Timlin said of the pitches he threw to Jorge Posada (double) and Jason Giambi (double). "Same two pitches to [Robinson]Cano and [Chad] Moeller. Same two pitches. Two popups. What are you going to do? Probably won't be the last time. If I threw another inning, I'd throw the same pitches. They were all quality pitches."


http://www.boston.co...r_pound/?page=2

At least he's honest with himself

#25 Bongorific

  • 4,831 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:35 AM

One note on McLelland's pitch calling .. he always has given a very delayed call. However, (and this was pointed out by Leiter on the YES broadcast) , he usually gives an instant verbal queue to the catcher and hitter. So .. the slow calls tend to piss everybody else off but at least the hitter/catcher know the call right away.

HOWEVER .. that did not seem to be the case in the Manny called strikeout. McLelland's call was a good two seconds late - and was completely responsible for showing up Manny. I think that's why Manny didn't get tossed at the time. The ump realized he had created the situation and cut Ramirez quite a bit more slack than normal.

I wouldn't trust a lot of info out of the YES booth. On the 2-seamer Tek got called out on, there were a good 3 seconds before the call was made. Tek had already started his between pitches routine. Not only was that pitch 3-4 inches off the plate, but both the verbal and visual cue came very late.

#26 Jimbodandy

  • 802 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:46 AM

I was meaning to ask but I thought I saw a couple of sliders from Buchholz to RHH last night. Did any one else catch this?


I thought so too. I'm pretty sure one of them was in the Jeter AB in the third.

#27 TheoShmeo


  • made johnny damon think long and hard


  • 8,300 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:49 AM

I don't think Tavarez was a fresh arm and given Aardsma's ability to go 2 innings, maybe a better strategy would have been to have Tavarez get out of the 4th but then use Aardsma for the 5th and 6th, mixing in Lopez, Timlin, MDC to get through the 8th. It was pretty strange having Remy calling for Tavarez to be yanked the way he did; I guess Tito's thought was that either Tavarez preserves the lead or he doesn't because the team was not going to risk blowing out the whole bullpen. Of course this is all academic if Timlin still blows up, and this is not the sort of game where you can avoid using at least one of Timlin and Tavarez. At least we didn't burn any good relievers.

I didn't hear Remy and was stuck with the Al-Yankezerra broadcast, but I was also pretty dismayed to see Tavarez come back out there after the Sox had gone ahead 9-7. Between the fact that I don't like seeing Julian in games when the Sox are leading and the long delay between the bottom of the fourth and the bottom of the fifth, I was also hoping they'd go to Aardsma to start the inning and was unpleasantly surprised that Tito stayed with Tavarez as long as he did. Said differently, if Remy was harping on those things, I think he was on the money.

#28 wade boggs chicken dinner


  • SoSH Member


  • 6,905 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:06 PM

Between the fact that I don't like seeing Julian in games when the Sox are leading and the long delay between the bottom of the fourth and the bottom of the fifth, I was also hoping they'd go to Aardsma to start the inning and was unpleasantly surprised that Tito stayed with Tavarez as long as he did.

At least Tito hears your pain, but he's going to great lengths - I'm sure many thinking way too far - on protecting the 'pen. From the article:

"We've won games, but they've been hard games to win, and we've been to our bullpen early. Tonight, we go to Tavarez and, if he struggles, that's what happens. We really didn't have anywhere to go.

"If you run into a problem like that, there's not a lot of protection. That will be my biggest mistake. I think that's the best way to get a team untracked is by getting the bullpen in tatters. I won't do that. But that's the best way to ruin a team - and we're not going to do that."



#29 SoxFanSince57


  • Carrie Nation


  • 10,048 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:16 PM

I ALWAYS fret about the strength and depth of the bullpen. So last night was loads of fun for me. While I am "up" for replacing Timlin, Lopez and Tavarez, we should also at least acknowledge SSS. Timlin as thrown 2.1 innings so far this year, Lopez 4.2 innings and Tavarez 7.2 innings.

I am taking deep breaths right now--and I am not sure if I am relaxing or hyperventilating.

#30 jtn46


  • SoSH Member


  • 6,872 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:40 PM

McClelland was a joke. There's no way that pitch inside to Varitek was closer than Buchholz' pitch to Moeller. If he's not giving pitchers the inside corner, fine, but be consistent. Anyways, as has been said, he gave up a well-placed pop-up. The AB was a little longer than it needed to be, but he did his job there, just had some bad luck, and let the bad luck and a bad call affect the rest of his outing. I think while obviously one lesson Clay can take from this is to not let some bad luck affect him, he also should see how important it is to have as many of his pitches working as possible. If he had his curve going as well as he did Friday, he probably could have put Moeller away much more easily.

I think one problem our pitching staff has had in general is they're not going after bad hitters, especially in these Yankee series. We saw Beckett nibbling against Alberto Gonzalez Saturday, and last night our whole pitching staff was nibbling against Moeller. Throw these guys fastballs early in the count, and throw your best breaking stuff 0-2...there's zero reason to be cute. You fall behind, you're putting a better hitter at the plate.

I think people are being a little unfair with Timlin last night. He was giving up some really cheap hits. I guess if you want to criticize him for not being able to throw the ball by hitters you can do that, but he got enough poor contact that he easily could have gotten through that inning without giving up a run. Really, all night, the only guys who got "hammered" were Buchholz early and Tavarez.

#31 SoxFanSince57


  • Carrie Nation


  • 10,048 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 04:06 PM

I think one problem our pitching staff has had in general is they're not going after bad hitters, especially in these Yankee series. We saw Beckett nibbling against Alberto Gonzalez Saturday, and last night our whole pitching staff was nibbling against Moeller. Throw these guys fastballs early in the count, and throw your best breaking stuff 0-2...there's zero reason to be cute. You fall behind, you're putting a better hitter at the plate.


I had this thought as well. Anyone else?

It is almost like Farrell has told everybody that it is essential for them to use all their pitches because even the worst hitters will tee off on a fastball. Perhaps Tek and the pitchers have taken this POV to heart so much that they are missing the value of just blowing the ball by some of the crappiest hitters on the other team.

#32 tailwind


  • too poor to be SoSH Member


  • 2,102 posts

Posted 17 April 2008 - 04:51 PM

Did anybody else think that Buchholz and Varitek were a little fastball-happy in the 1st inning last night? Does anybody have these numbers? Grooving a high 4-seamer to Abreu was bad, throwing more to A-Rod directly after (even if the one he destroyed was lower) was worse.

I know there's a need to establish the pitch, but it's Clay's 3rd best offering, and he didn't have great command of it last night. Nobody ever seems to square up his curve well, and his change hasn't been getting hit even though he's been leaving it high lately. I'd like to see him pull an Arroyo and pitch backwards more often than not (against good hitters, not disagreeing with the posts above,) so the fastball is more of a surprise pitch, like how Daisuke was throwing in his second start against Oakland.

Edited by tailwind, 17 April 2008 - 04:52 PM.