65 replies to this topic

[SoxScout]

Though the Red Sox didn't make an official announcement this afternoon, Kyle Snyder confirmed to the Globe that he has been designated for assignment to make room for Josh Beckett on the 25-man roster.

Snyder is out of options, so he cannot be sent to Triple A.

He did not want to speak further this afternoon, though he did say he would talk to the media tomorrow. The reliever came in after Clay Buchholz in today's game, going 1/3 of an inning, giving up two earned runs and two walks.

Beckett will start tomorrow's game against the Blue Jays in his return from a back injury suffered in spring training.

http://www.boston.co...r_designat.html

Edited by SoxScout, 05 April 2008 - 04:00 PM.

[drtooth]

He did not want to speak further this afternoon, though he did say he would talk to the media tomorrow.

Given the quote, I wonder if he will come back to the Sox (AAA assignment) if he clears waivers or just go to another organization.

Edited by drtooth, 05 April 2008 - 04:08 PM.

[sox junky]

I am truly shocked that Snyder was the first to go. But, I'm also happy because it was the right choice IMO.

Just goes to show you that the media knows absolutely nothing. For weeks, we've been reading about how the bullpen competition was a 3 player race for 1 spot. Snyder seemingly was assured of a job according to the media. Not quite....

[Rough Carrigan]

Good luck to the guy. He was part of a championship Sox team last year. I'm surprised he was let go, not because I didn't think he deserved it but I thought the team might default back to the guys with the team last year.

[yecul]

Thankfully they could make the right call on this. He is bad. Period. There is no upside. There is no hope. There is no use. There is no value. DFA A-OK.

This is not to say that Corey and Aardsma are clearly better. But at least we can try a different kind of bad on for size and maybe we'll find decent in there somewhere.

The one amazing (and disappointing) thing is that they somehow needed today to make the decision. They were giving him a shot at keeping his spot and he walked two guys. What, a couple years of watching him isn't enough? One last inning was going to change something?

Edited by yecul, 05 April 2008 - 04:56 PM.

[jose melendez]

The one amazing (and disappointing) thing is that they somehow needed today to make the decision. They were giving him a shot at keeping his spot and he walked two guys. What, a couple years of watching him isn't enough? One last inning was going to change something?

He did have an ERA of 3.81 last year. That's not exactly a number that screams "release me."

I never had any confidence in the guy, he walked way too many for my taste, and I was relieved that he was not on the 2007 playoff roster, but you can't argue that there was no reason to give him a chance based on last year.

[TFisNEXT]

With Tavarez seemingly the long man and spot starter out of the 'pen, there was really no room for Snyder. He wasn't your typical 1 inning reliever or a guy you could bring in with men on base (his high walk rate).

[PedroSpecialK]

He did have an ERA of 3.81 last year. That's not exactly a number that screams "release me."

I never had any confidence in the guy, he walked way too many for my taste, and I was relieved that he was not on the 2007 playoff roster, but you can't argue that there was no reason to give him a chance based on last year.

I pretty much agree. He doesn't inspire confidence when he comes into a game but that's probably simply because of the situations in which he'd normally pitch (read: behind Tavarez, not in front of him like he was this year). His '06 peripherals were very encouraging, but they went to garbage last year. The 3.81 is a mirage really in that he had 6 unearned runs and only 9 more K's than walks, but he can still be a league average reliever (imo). Not that sad to see him go - he was the odd man out and I have more faith in Corey and Aardsma going forward.

[saintnick912]

Snyder didn't pitch in any meaningful situations last year, so that ERA number is suspect. Despite not appearing in the world series, he did get his own "Masters of the Universe" style moment with the trophy after game 4.

[SoxFanSince57]

With Tavarez seemingly the long man and spot starter out of the 'pen, there was really no room for Snyder. He wasn't your typical 1 inning reliever or a guy you could bring in with men on base (his high walk rate).

Looks like the Sox reflected the collective "consensus" of SoSH on this.

Per the quote above, it seems that Tavarez' position is more solid after this move. I had been wondering whether Tavarez was going to be packaged, but with the injuries and this move, he looks pretty secure.

Lopez next please.

[cheekydave]

Snyder didn't pitch in any meaningful situations last year, so that ERA number is suspect. Despite not appearing in the world series, he did get his own "Masters of the Universe" style moment with the trophy after game 4.

Judge Reinhold?

[Kevin Youkulele]

This move had to be made, but it kind of sucks for him that it couldn't wait until after the ring ceremony.

[yecul]

He did have an ERA of 3.81 last year. That's not exactly a number that screams "release me."

And if they're not able to look past that then I'd consider it a disappointment as well. But to each their own I guess.

[mabrowndog]

He did have an ERA of 3.81 last year. That's not exactly a number that screams "release me."

I never had any confidence in the guy, he walked way too many for my taste, and I was relieved that he was not on the 2007 playoff roster, but you can't argue that there was no reason to give him a chance based on last year.

Actually, yes you can -- at least relative to the others competing for that "chance" (which Snyder's already had).

The highlighted snippet alludes to the reason. While Snyder decreased his BAA from .314 (with BOS in '06) to .223 last year, his K:BB went from 55:19 (2.89) to 41:32 (1.28). If you factor in the 2-6 difference in HBP, those ratios become 2.62 and 1.08.

He's 30, yet he hasn't shown that he can consistently keep the ball away from hitters' sweet spots by nibbling on the corners. When he pitches away, he ends up walking the park. And he simply cannot fool hitters with an out-pitch.

Last season Snyder never worked more than 2 IP in any outing. He allowed at least one baserunner in 40 of his 46 games, and at least two baserunners in 19 of those. Kind of takes the "relief" out of "reliever".

This is not to say that Corey and Aardsma are clearly better. But at least we can try a different kind of bad on for size and maybe we'll find decent in there somewhere.

This sums things up nicely.

Edited by mabrowndog, 05 April 2008 - 07:09 PM.

[Paradigm]

There are some teams with pretty rancid bullpens, like Detroit, Philly and Pittsburgh. I wonder if he'll be claimed by one of those teams (and does Detroit get the first right, since they are 0-5?) and if not, will he sign a Triple-A contract with one of those instead of staying with Boston? If he stays here, it'd be surprising, because he's probably out of opportunities and would appear to stay since he likes the organization.

[Rough Carrigan]

I don't think waiver claims go in order of the present year's record until we're at some point a little further into the season. I forget what the date is, but I'm pretty sure it was more than a week in. Till then, the claims have priority based on last year's record, IIRC.

[86spike]

I would hope the Sox aren't even interested in him at Pawtucket. Let him try his hand elsewhere. [tangent - speaking of hands, did anyone else ever notice that Snyder has incredibly huge hands. It's freakish.]

I would think that there is someone in the NL who would take a flyer on giving him a AAA contract and a decent shot at an MLB job. He'd be deluding himself if he really thought he had a good chance at betting back up to the big team in Boston.

[HighHeat]

This move had to be made, but it kind of sucks for him that it couldn't wait until after the ring ceremony.

This doesn't necessarily mean that he won't be there. The move hasn't been made (officially) yet, and a player can take 72 hours to go through the waiver process. It's quite possible that he may not even know what his future holds as of Tuesday morning. I'm sure that the Sox would welcome his participation in the ring ceremony regardless of his standing with the organization - he earned it.

[67WasBest]

5th starter - Buchholz - Colon - Tavarez
Long Relief - Tavarez
6th Inning - Timlin - Lopez - Aardsma - Corey

IMO, he couldn't displace any of the above and that is why he was DFA'd. He was given every opportunity to take the #5 starter role and he failed. He then failed horribly as the bridge from the 5th to the 7th inning.

Thanks for your 2007 contribution and good luck hooking on elsewhere. Good move by Theo IMO.

[reggiecleveland]

Judge Reinhold?

I've been saying this since they picked him up

[mabrowndog]

"I could've done more... I could've done so much more..."

[syoo8]

How much of Snyder's $835K are the Sox on the hook for? It says here that the contract was "nonguaranteed." Does that mean that the Sox pays him a pro-rated amount?

As infuriating as it has been at times to see him pitch, I feel for him. Four arm surgeries, DFA by KC expecting nobody to claim him, then DFA by the Sox. It is a cruel business, baseball.

[Montana Fan]

With the success some of the other pitchers (Romero & Piniero) that the Sox released last year have had I'd think the Sox would get something for Snyder. With the dearth of pitching and the cheap cost you'd think an NL team would trade a B prospect for him.

Maybe he'll strike lightining like R&P did.

The Philadelphia Phillies have re-signed RP J.C. Romero to a three-year contract worth $12 million

Joel Pineiro agreed to a $13 million, two-year contract with St. Louis on Monday after pitching well for the Cardinals down the stretch.

[Bowlerman9]

How much of Snyder's $835K are the Sox on the hook for? It says here that the contract was "nonguaranteed." Does that mean that the Sox pays him a pro-rated amount?

As infuriating as it has been at times to see him pitch, I feel for him. Four arm surgeries, DFA by KC expecting nobody to claim him, then DFA by the Sox. It is a cruel business, baseball.

They are on the hook for all of it, less what someone else will pay him (so either the pro-rated share of the league minimum or the pro-rated share of the AAA minimum). It is only "non-guaranteed" in that since he was an arb player, they could have cut him before the season and only owed him 1/6th. Once the season starts, it becomes fully guaranteed.

[wibi]

The highlighted snippet alludes to the reason. While Snyder decreased his BAA from .314 (with BOS in '06) to .223 last year, his K:BB went from 55:19 (2.89) to 41:32 (1.28). If you factor in the 2-6 difference in HBP, those ratios become 2.62 and 1.08.

He's 30, yet he hasn't shown that he can consistently keep the ball away from hitters' sweet spots by nibbling on the corners. When he pitches away, he ends up walking the park. And he simply cannot fool hitters with an out-pitch.

Last season Snyder never worked more than 2 IP in any outing. He allowed at least one baserunner in 40 of his 46 games, and at least two baserunners in 19 of those. Kind of takes the "relief" out of "reliever".
This sums things up nicely.

His LOB rate was extremely good (or high) compared to league average last year. Is it a safe to assume that LOB% is similar to BABIP in terms of luck involved?

[DieHard3]

I've said this before, but it bears repeating in this thread. It is so nice that so many of us have such complete confidence in the evaluation process used by this team that a reasonably difficult decision like this generates only 25 responses. I agree with what seems to be the overwhelming consensus, Snyder is what he is and can be replaced easily enough that it makes sense to hang on to the higher upside guys.

[yep]

5th starter - Buchholz - Colon - Tavarez
Long Relief - Tavarez
6th Inning - Timlin - Lopez - Aardsma - Corey

IMO, he couldn't displace any of the above and that is why he was DFA'd. He was given every opportunity to take the #5 starter role and he failed. He then failed horribly as the bridge from the 5th to the 7th inning.

Thanks for your 2007 contribution and good luck hooking on elsewhere. Good move by Theo IMO.

Perfectly stated.

His LOB rate was extremely good (or high) compared to league average last year. Is it a safe to assume that LOB% is similar to BABIP in terms of luck involved?

No, and certainly not in the way implied. BABIP is a measure of luck to the extent that we believe that pitchers cannot control the outcome once the batter is able to actually put the ball in play. OTOH, more effective pitchers tend to have higher LOB%, but the deviation is pretty wide and the relationships are not universally consistent. If anything, LOB% jibes better with common-sense notions of good pitching as opposed to BABIP.

To put it another way, a pitcher who strands a high percentage of baserunners is likely to be a better pitcher if that's the only thing we know about them, since very good pitchers tend to allow very few baserunners, and most of those don't score. Bad pitchers, OTOH, tend to allow a lot of baserunners, and a lot of them *do* make it home, if for no other reason than the other baserunners coming up behind them.

This makes intuitive sense when you think about it-- a pitcher who gives up, say, an average of one baserunner per inning can theoretically do that all night without allowing a run for LOB% of 100%, whereas a pitcher who allows a lot of baserunners per inning will typically see a certain percentage of those baserunners score.

It also makes sense from a cigar-chomping, "non-stat" POV to think that the ability to step it up when there are runners on base is a sign of a better pitcher. Such a "clutch" pitcher would theoretically have a higher LOB%.

Cheers.

[TomRicardo]

Clearly no one claimed him from waivers or we would have heard about it by now. I wonder why he hasn't been released or accepted a minor league assignment yet.

Edited by TomRicardo, 11 April 2008 - 01:03 PM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

The Sox have ten days before they have to do anything, right? It's likely they are trying to trade him.

[Crazy Puppy]

Clearly no one claimed him from waivers or we would have heard ab out it by now. I wonder why he hasn't been released or accepted a minor league assignment yet.

When a player is designated for assignment, the team has 10 days to trade him, waive him or give him his outright release. They may not even have placed him on waivers yet as they see if there's any trade possibility.

Edit: From today's Herald:

As of yesterday, the Sox had yet to place Kyle Snyder [stats]on waivers, and there were indications that they were looking to trade the right-hander. Among the teams interested in Snyder, who was designated for assignment Sunday, are the Tigers, Rays and Phillies. Snyder is currently at home in Sarasota, Fla., awaiting word. .

Edited by Crazy Puppy, 11 April 2008 - 01:08 PM.

[SouthPaw21]

They have yet to place him on waivers, per the Boston Herald today...

As of yesterday, the Sox had yet to place Kyle Snyder [stats]on waivers, and there were indications that they were looking to trade the right-hander. Among the teams interested in Snyder, who was designated for assignment Sunday, are the Tigers, Rays and Phillies. Snyder is currently at home in Sarasota, Fla., awaiting word.

[sox junky]

They have yet to place him on waivers, per the Boston Herald today...

Yorman Bazardo was DFA by the Tigers recently. I wonder if a Snyder for Bazardo trade could work. Bazardo is out of options, but I would think he could take the spot of Lopez (he's pretty useless anyways). Bazardo was the #5 prospect for Detroit per BBA (after the Cabrera trade that is)....

[underhandtofirst]

Yorman Bazardo was DFA by the Tigers recently. I wonder if a Snyder for Bazardo trade could work. Bazardo is out of options, but I would think he could take the spot of Lopez (he's pretty useless anyways). Bazardo was the #5 prospect for Detroit per BBA (after the Cabrera trade that is)....

milb numbers
Baseball Cube

He looked pretty brutal against the Sox a few days ago. He had good numbers last year in 11 games with Det, no doubt helped by a .239 BABIP.

[Bowlerman9]

Kyle Snyder, who was designated for assignment April 6, has accepted an assignment to Triple A Pawtucket.

Even the teams who are desperate for bullpen help aren't desperate enough for Kyle Snyder.

[Fratboy]

Source: http://www.bostonher...pts-assignment/

I find this surprising. Granted, right *now* he appears to be the very definition of replacement level, which could be a step up for some teams' pens. Maybe he can figure some things out on the farm. Regardless, not a bad move for the Sox. Snyder clearly likes being in this organization.

[86spike]

wow - nobody wants Kyle?

you'd think someone like the Mets or the Astros would take a flyer to see if he can get that big hook working with some consistent playing time.

[xjack]

Five years ago, someone would have taken a chance -- based on his deceptively good '07 ERA and his once-lofty prospect status. Front offices have gotten smarter.... Too bad for us.

[mabrowndog]

Source: http://www.bostonher...pts-assignment/

Not that I'm at all eager to see Snyder pitch meaningful innings in Boston, but it's always good to have some spare parts in the garage. That said, there are already 13 active pitchers with the Pawsox, and that doesn't include Colon who's eligible to return from the 7-day DL tomorrow. Then there's Corey, who might surprise us and end up clearing waivers as well.

The issue will be clearing a roster slot for Snyder in Pawtucket. Will they demote a young bullpen arm to Portland (robbing them of valuable development innings against AAA hitters), or release one of the AAAA veterans (Kolb, Gronkiewicz)? Or maybe one of them takes a magical trip to the DL with a busted Johnson rod?

Edited by mabrowndog, 14 April 2008 - 02:41 PM.

[TomRicardo]

Five years ago, someone would have taken a chance -- based on his deceptively good '07 ERA and his once-lofty prospect status. Front offices have gotten smarter.... Too bad for us.

Why is it bad for us? I can't see how it is a bad thing to have Snyder in Pawtucket.

[SaveBooFerriss]

Why is it bad for us? I can't see how it is a bad thing to have Snyder in Pawtucket.

I think he meant that it is bad for us that other teams have gotten smarter. I like this move in that it is more insurance that hopefully will allow the Sox to cut Tavarez if Colon is activated.

[xjack]

I think he meant that it is bad for us that other teams have gotten smarter.

yup

[amfox1]

The issue will be clearing a roster slot for Snyder in Pawtucket. Will they demote a young bullpen arm to Portland (robbing them of valuable development innings against AAA hitters), or release one of the AAAA veterans (Kolb, Gronkiewicz)? Or maybe one of them takes a magical trip to the DL with a busted Johnson rod?

As was noted, there are now 15 pitchers for 12 spots.

The four main candidates to be moved are:

Chris Smith - started in AA, could go back as the 5th starter or could go to AAA bullpen
Edgar Martinez - he's been awful (5.2IP, 0K, 6BB, 2HRA) and could use some retooling
Dan Kolb - I think we have better options (Hansen, Gronk, one of the lefties)
Devern Hansack - off to a very slow start, wondering if there is an injury

I'd keep Smith and move the other three to make room for Snyder and Colon.

[Bowlerman9]

As was noted, there are now 15 pitchers for 12 spots.

The four main candidates to be moved are:

Chris Smith - started in AA, could go back as the 5th starter or could go to AAA bullpen
Edgar Martinez - he's been awful (5.2IP, 0K, 6BB, 2HRA) and could use some retooling
Dan Kolb - I think we have better options (Hansen, Gronk, one of the lefties)
Devern Hansack - off to a very slow start, wondering if there is an injury

I'd keep Smith and move the other three to make room for Snyder and Colon.

What about Abe Alvarez? Hasnt he worn out his welcome yet? He hasnt been successful at AAA as a SP or in Boston as a RP, so I dont see why its worth keeping him around in AAA as a RP. Even if he develops into a LOOGY, you can always go out and get a Javier Lopez on the cheap.

[Rough Carrigan]

This is the flip side of the "pump up his trade value" coin. According to Cafardo, there were scouts who thought he was the best fringe guy who might be traded in MLB. The Sox held onto him and he crapped the bed vaporizing any trade value he might have had before games started.

Maybe he couldn't be traded in March either.

[mabrowndog]

As was noted, there are now 15 pitchers for 12 spots.

The four main candidates to be moved are:

Chris Smith - started in AA, could go back as the 5th starter or could go to AAA bullpen
Edgar Martinez - he's been awful (5.2IP, 0K, 6BB, 2HRA) and could use some retooling
Dan Kolb - I think we have better options (Hansen, Gronk, one of the lefties)
Devern Hansack - off to a very slow start, wondering if there is an injury

I'd keep Smith and move the other three to make room for Snyder and Colon.

If I'm Theo, I'm loathe to move Hansack off the 40-man if I can avoid it, and I really wouldn't want to give up on Kolb so quickly. Can Hansack and Martinez be readily sent down to Fort Myers for Extended Spring Training, or is there some super-secret minor league waiver system they'd have to pass through? If so, those moves along with Smith to AA would get it done without having to cut bait on Kolb just yet.

[Pumpsie]

According to Cafardo, there were scouts who thought he was the best fringe guy who might be traded in MLB.

Whenever I read stuff like this in the papers, I wonder if someone is "planting" the info there. That is, in casual conversation with reporters, I wonder if a GM would say "well, the guy who is getting the most interest is..." or to have some scout or other baseball person say it for him. Maybe reading that might get some other organization to consider trading for said player. I don't know if that happens but I think it does.

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

What about Abe Alvarez? Hasnt he worn out his welcome yet? He hasnt been successful at AAA as a SP or in Boston as a RP, so I dont see why its worth keeping him around in AAA as a RP. Even if he develops into a LOOGY, you can always go out and get a Javier Lopez on the cheap.

Except our Javier Lopez cost Dave Riske, who at worst is an above average reliever.

[Eric Van]

Except our Javier Lopez cost Dave Riske, who at worst is an above average reliever.

Lopez WPA year-by-year (anything positive is above average):

1.12, 0.32, -0.07, 0.78, 0.10 and currently 3rd in the bullpen at 0.22.

Riske: -0.14, 2.67, .08, -.05, -.21, .13, .31 so far this year.

Riske total last 3 seasons (i.e., since the year of the trade) : 0.23.

Lopez total: 1.10.