251 replies to this topic

[RedOctober3829]

According to multiple clubhouse sources, the Red Sox [team stats]will be holding a players-only meeting later this morning concerning the issue regarding the coaches potentially not being paid the $40,000 allocated the players.

The sources indicated that the players will be issuing a mandate to Major League Baseball that if the coaches aren’t paid, then the team will not be getting on the plane later today for Japan.

Rob Bradford's Blog

[Fenway Frank]

Breaking (Bradford-Herald)

According to multiple clubhouse sources, the Red Sox [team stats]will be holding a players-only meeting later this morning concerning the issue regarding the coaches potentially not being paid the $40,000 allocated the players.

The sources indicated that the players will be issuing a mandate to Major League Baseball that if the coaches aren’t paid, then the team will not be getting on the plane later today for Japan.

According to one player, the agreement originally approved by the players included paying the $40,000 to the coaches.

source: http://www.bostonher...position=recent

[DJnVa]

Uh oh.

I would assume inthe end the coaches tell the players that they appreciate the sentiment but they need to get on the plane, because I doubt MLB moves that quickly.

[NomarRS05]

I like it. It shows that there's some team solidarity in that clubhouse.

[gcapalbo]

One would imagine that for many of the coaches, that $40k is not an insignicant amount of coin.

It does speak volumes that this is really a 'team'.

I like it.

Don't worry... they'll all be on that plane.

[bosox79]

I think MLB would react quick actually. I can only imagine how big a hit MLB would take in Japan if the Redsox didnt bother showing up.

[rembrat]

More ..

There was a players-only meeting held this morning on the topic, and David Ortiz said one of the options discussed was refusing to board the plane for Japan today unless the situation was rectified. "That's one of the things we've been talking about," Ortiz said. "It's really [expletive]up."

The players also discussed potentially not taking the field for today's spring training finale against the Blue Jays, which is scheduled for 12:05 p.m

Francona said he's been on the phone trying to reach Major League Baseball officials the past two days and has received no answers.

The Sox manager, who had told his coaches they would be paid for the Japan jaunt (players will receive a stipend), was told by members of the Oakland coaching staff that they were not being paid. Francona had thought it was unusual that one team would be paid and the other not. So after he checked into it and found he and his coaches were getting nothing.

Link


So why are the Red SOx coaches not getting paid but the A's are? Unless I read that wrong...

[RedOctober3829]

More ..
Link
So why are the Red SOx coaches not getting paid but the A's are? Unless I read that wrong...

Francona thought they were getting paid and when he heard that Oakland's coaches weren't getting paid, he found that weird. Then he found out that he and his coaches weren't getting paid either which made him mad.

[DJnVa]

I think MLB would react quick actually. I can only imagine how big a hit MLB would take in Japan if the Redsox didnt bother showing up.

Well, you'd think, but the latest update says Francona has been trying to get an answer for 2 days.

[Foulkey Reese]

Well, you'd think, but the latest update says Francona has been trying to get an answer for 2 days.

It's amazing to me that MLB can't give Francona an answer on something as big and important as this Japan trip. How could they possibly justify not paying the coaches?

[Quintanariffic]

Well, you'd think, but the latest update says Francona has been trying to get an answer for 2 days.

Yeah, but now that this is out in the press, I suspect MLB will move a little more quickly.

Edit: And allow me to join the chorus of huzzahs for the players making this decision. That's a great sign for the chemistry that exists between the members of the on-field employees of the team, be they players or coaches.

Edited by Quintanariffic, 19 March 2008 - 09:21 AM.

[berstch]

Good for the Red Sox players and coaches. For as much revenue that MLB will gain from this trip and its impacts, everyone making the trip should be compensated for their inconvenience. I'm sure Francona and his staff have spent a lot of time this Spring figuring out ways to condense Spring Training to be ready for an earlier start date, along with a shortened time line for roster decisions.

How disgusting is it that Francona has to show a security official immediately during a game that he is wearing a uniform top, but MLB can put off accepting his call so that they don't have to deal with a legitimate concern of his? The hypocrisy of Major League Baseball knows no bounds.

Edited by berstch, 19 March 2008 - 09:24 AM.

[RedOctober3829]

If this was negotiated into the deal of going to Japan, then why the hell would they back out of the deal?? MLB has really dropped the ball on this one. Why wouldn't you pay your employees to represent you in a foreign country? This is just assanine and MLB needs to rectify this ASAP or this will blow up in their faces.

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

It's amazing to me that MLB can't give Francona an answer on something as big and important as this Japan trip. How could they possibly justify not paying the coaches?

And why is it Francona's job to contact MLB? Shouldn't Theo or one of the owners be making that phone call?

I imagine MLB will just quickly cave in, especially if the original agreement stipulated that coaches would be paid. But if it comes down to that, I hope the team just pays the coaches a bonus rather than sitting out the trip (and assumedly forfeiting the two games against the As), which would just be bad for everybody.

[The Four Peters]

I absolutely love the fact the players are going through this. Not only because it fosters the "team" sentiment that has been expressed, but moreso because it is just the right thing to do. The coaches deserved to get paid just like the players do, and since they were lead to believe they would be MLB, then it should be followed through on.

That said, I have no doubt that MLB will end up paying them. If you figure 6 coaches per team at 40k each, it's $480,000 in the grand scheme of a billion dollar business. That is not enough to cause the possible public relations embarrassment that is looming.

I'm curious to see if MLB responds quickly now that this has made it to the press.

Edit: Morgan's Magic Snowplow is exactly right. It's best for everyone involved that the boycott doesn't happen. Including us, the fans.

Edited by The Four Peters, 19 March 2008 - 09:26 AM.

[jsinger121]

If the coaches do not get paid for this trip then expect this to be the final trip to Japan for MLB because I do not believe the players association will agree to do these trips in the future. I expect MLB to cave on this issue pretty quickly since they want to continue to market MLB throughout the Far East.

Edited by jsinger121, 19 March 2008 - 09:28 AM.

[BigMike]

This is multibillion dollar industry. A franchise that has revenues annually that almost certainly are over 300 million. And somehow the industry is getting dragged through the mud over what is less than a half million dollars.

MLB should step up and make this happen, and pay the coaches. If MLB is slow to respond then John Henry should make it clear that the coaches will be paid one way or another.

And why is it Francona's job to contact MLB? Shouldn't Theo or one of the owners be making that phone call?

Absolutely, Theo should have been there yesterday and assured the coaches and the players that one way or another the coaches would be paid. Then Theo or John Henry should have been the ones working the phone to make sure MLB would the one to pick up the tab

[rembrat]

These guys mean business..

Red Sox third baseman Mike Lowell confirmed to the Globe's Jackie MacMullan that team voted unanimously this morning not to make the scheduled trip to Japan or play its final Grapefruit League game against Toronto this afternoon unless the coaches, training staff, and equipment staff were going to be compensated for making the trip to Japan.

''When we voted to go to Japan, that was not a unanimous vote,'' said Lowell, "but we did what our team wanted us to do for Major League Baseball. They promised us the moon and the stars and then when we committed, they started pulling back. It's not just the coaches, it's the staff, the trainers, a lot of people are affected by this.

"I'm so super proud of this team, when we put it to a vote it was unanimous, we're all in agreement that we're not going to put up with this.''

Link

Edited by rembrat, 19 March 2008 - 09:33 AM.

[BigJimEd]

Good for the players. MLB and/or the Sox should give the coaches a stipend. However, we don't know that MLB mislead them any in way. Francona may have just made a big assumption.

I do agree that this is something Theo, Lucchino or Henry should be handling this and not Francona.

Edited by BigJimEd, 19 March 2008 - 09:43 AM.

[The Four Peters]

Well with that quote, I take back the 6 coaches per team figure, but even then, this needs to get done. It seems like everyone is in agreement, except MLB.

[Senorec]

Schilling will be on WEEI shortly "to give the players' side of the story", according to Dale & Holley

[Gambler7]

“It’s wrong, it’s wrong,” said Curt Schilling [stats]. “It was part of the basic agreement when we talked about it last year. The coaching staff was part of the conversation, we all heard it.

“It’s not really surprising because the coaches and staff are people generally who have always been overlooked and undervalued.”

“As of 9:04 it does,” said a visibly upset Francona when asked if the goings-on had cast a pall on the day. “We’re spending energy on something we don’t want to spend it on. I don’t understand it. I was embarrassed this morning. I had to tell them, ‘Hey, that money you may have already spent, go get it back.’ I was the one who told them.”

“I did not have an off day yesterday. I had the phone glued to my ear because I was promised some answers and I haven’t even received a phone call,” Francona said. “So I’m a little bit stuck. What I want to do this morning is get excited to play a baseball game and what I ended up doing is apologizing to the coaches and being humiliated.”

http://www.bostonher...l...&position=0

[glennhoffmania]

I'm a little confused. What are they not getting paid for? Are they just talking about the per diem? $40k per player seems a little ridiculous for a week long trip but I guess that's besides the point. I'm all for team solidarity and I think what the players are doing is great, but I'm just not sure why MLB is responsible for compensating the coaches or players.

[Fratboy]

''When we voted to go to Japan, that was not a unanimous vote,'' said Lowell, "but we did what our team wanted us to do for Major League Baseball. They promised us the moon and the stars and then when we committed, they started pulling back. It's not just the coaches, it's the staff, the trainers, a lot of people are affected by this.

"I'm so super proud of this team, when we put it to a vote it was unanimous, we're all in agreement that we're not going to put up with this.''

At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, this makes me proud to be a Red Sox fan. Every single player understands that the concept of a team goes beyond the 25 players on the active roster. Everyone in the organization is invested in everyone else's success and failure, and they recognize that successful front office, training staff, and whatever other functional teams and alignments there are within the organization ultimately have a part in determining the success of the players on the field. They get it.

This is what a world class sports organization does.

[Senorec]

I'm a little confused. What are they not getting paid for? Are they just talking about the per diem? $40k per player seems a little ridiculous for a week long trip but I guess that's besides the point. I'm all for team solidarity and I think what the players are doing is great, but I'm just not sure why MLB is responsible for compensating the coaches or players.

I think a big part of it is that when the contracts were being written up the coaches/staff were included when it came to being paid a stipend/appearance fee. So it seems more to do with honoring the agreed upon contract rather than whether or not they should be compensated for the trip.

[berstch]

I'm a little confused. What are they not getting paid for? Are they just talking about the per diem? $40k per player seems a little ridiculous for a week long trip but I guess that's besides the point. I'm all for team solidarity and I think what the players are doing is great, but I'm just not sure why MLB is responsible for compensating the coaches or players.

MLB basically told the players that they would each get a $40,000 bonus for agreeing to play in Japan. In order for the games to happen, they had to be approved by the players, and this bonus along with other assurances from MLB was a factor in the players approving a trip they weren't too keen on making.

[educatedcheese]

Other snippets from Bradford:

According to Francona, the coaching staffs of previous MLB trips to Japan all were paid the same stipend as the players. The Sox manager was scheduled to join the Oakland A’s coaching staff in its team’s trip to Japan in 2003 and said it was agreed on that the coaches were to be paid. The trip was ultimately cancelled.

(snip)

Francona has long been a huge advocate of coaches’ rights, executing such deeds as using money from television commercials to pay for the coaches’ clubhouse fees, and making sure they all are included in his contract with Reebok.

“This is a touchy situation for me,” Francona said. “It’s the last thing I want to deal with. I want to deal with getting ready to play baseball. It’s frustrating.

“They were told they were going to be (paid). For a coach, in some cases, this is two-fifths of their salary for the year. It’s a big deal. I don’t agree that coaches are second-class citizens. That has never sat well with me, ever, and continues to boggle my mind.”

If MLB made this promise, they have to deliver. I'm willing to wager Bud will first try to weasel out of it, or make himself sound like Mr Generosity, before he writes the check later this afternoon.

[jayhoz]

I'm a little confused. What are they not getting paid for? Are they just talking about the per diem? $40k per player seems a little ridiculous for a week long trip but I guess that's besides the point. I'm all for team solidarity and I think what the players are doing is great, but I'm just not sure why MLB is responsible for compensating the coaches or players.

It sounds like there were negotiations last year to get the teams to agree to make the trip. $40K must have been what the teams/players negotiated the price tag up to in order to agree to go.

Good for these guys for sticking up for their coaches.

[SoxScout]

Schill says MLB has fallen off the way-side time and time again with this trip and things that were promised, "hopefully it will all be fixed".

[berstch]

Schilling on WEEI now.

[TheYaz67]

Its unclear to me - are the players also each getting $40K from MLB for this trip (some previous pieces seemed to infer this, although that doesn't seem to make much sense)? If so, all the guys on the team making more than $10M annually could just sign their checks over to the coaches. Or just Manny could do it even if they aren't getting an extra $40K each - just a thought. If the League really did back off from a commitment, then indeed the players are in the right to hold the gun to their heads with the threat of not traveling. The players will be out sight seeing while the coaches are running clinics - they deserve the pay.

[Fratboy]

I'm a little confused. What are they not getting paid for? Are they just talking about the per diem? $40k per player seems a little ridiculous for a week long trip but I guess that's besides the point. I'm all for team solidarity and I think what the players are doing is great, but I'm just not sure why MLB is responsible for compensating the coaches or players.

The point as I understand it, and someone who knows more can fill in gaps, is that when the Red Sox (and presumably the A's as well) were negotiating the details about making the Japan trip, all parties agreed on a 40K per diem for all personnel making the trip, and now MLB is saying that coaches, trainers, and staff aren't included.

The amount of the per diem is irrelevant. An agreement was made by all sides in good faith, and it's apparently been broken, and the Red Sox (and presumably the A's) are right to call out MLB on it.

All things considered, the amount is a rounding error, and worth the price of good pub. MLB is really dropping the ball on this one.

[deanx0]

Its unclear to me - are the players also each getting $40K from MLB for this trip (some previous pieces seemed to infer this, although that doesn't seem to make much sense)? If so, all the guys on the team making more than $10M annually could just sign their checks over to the coaches. Or just Manny could do it even if they aren't getting an extra $40K each - just a thought. If the League really did back off from a commitment, then indeed the players are in the right to hold the gun to their heads with the threat of not traveling. The players will be out sight seeing while the coaches are running clinics - they deserve the pay.

While the 40K isn't that big a deal to the players making millions, why should they have to give the money to the coaches to cover the inept (at best) or dishonest (in all probability) handling of this by MLB?

[pedro1918]

I'm a little confused. What are they not getting paid for? Are they just talking about the per diem? $40k per player seems a little ridiculous for a week long trip but I guess that's besides the point. I'm all for team solidarity and I think what the players are doing is great, but I'm just not sure why MLB is responsible for compensating the coaches or players.

Because MLB agreed to compensate them to go to Japan, where MLB will make millions (now and continuing) off the labor of the players. The whole point of the trip for MLB is to make head way into the Japanese market. Players have leverage to get compensated and they use it. What's wrong with that?

Apparently, there is disagreement over the term "uniformed personnel". It sounds pretty fishy on MLBs part, as it seems that coaches and staff were compensated in the past.

Nice job Sox players, do the right thing.

[gcapalbo]

Apparently this has mushroomed... WEEI hosts on site reporting that they're not going to play the 12:05pm ST game either if this doesn't get resolved.

A little theatre in Camp Tranquility.

You know, maybe I don't renew my MLB TV either for this year.

[glennhoffmania]

Its unclear to me - are the players also each getting $40K from MLB for this trip (some previous pieces seemed to infer this, although that doesn't seem to make much sense)? If so, all the guys on the team making more than $10M annually could just sign their checks over to the coaches. Or just Manny could do it even if they aren't getting an extra $40K each - just a thought. If the League really did back off from a commitment, then indeed the players are in the right to hold the gun to their heads with the threat of not traveling. The players will be out sight seeing while the coaches are running clinics - they deserve the pay.

Yeah it doesn't make sense to me either. So basically MLB had to bribe the players with an extra 40k to make the trip, and the players want the coaches included in the deal. Stipends or per diems, sure. But 40k? The coaches are the ones who should be paid more if they're going to be working the whole time. I don't get the 40k "stipend" at all.

Regardless, MLB is pulling yet another bullshit move and showing how totally inept it is. I'll enjoy watching Bud try to talk his way out of this one. Maybe he'll get another big raise after he resolves the crisis.

[berstch]

While the 40K isn't that big a deal to the players making millions, why should they have to give the money to the coaches to cover the inept (at best) or dishonest (in all probability) handling of this by MLB?

Exactly. Youkilis has even said that one way or another the players will make up for it if they need to. It's a matter of principle to the players. The point is that the players feel MLB has somewhat duped them into this trip and they are taking a stand and holding MLB accountable for what they agreed to provide.

[Fratboy]

Yeah it doesn't make sense to me either. So basically MLB had to bribe the players with an extra 40k to make the trip, and the players want the coaches included in the deal. Stipends or per diems, sure. But 40k? The coaches are the ones who should be paid more if they're going to be working the whole time. I don't get the 40k "stipend" at all.

The "whys" are irrelevant. It all turns on the facts, whatever they may be.

[glennhoffmania]

The amount of the per diem is irrelevant. An agreement was made by all sides in good faith, and it's apparently been broken, and the Red Sox (and presumably the A's) are right to call out MLB on it.

All things considered, the amount is a rounding error, and worth the price of good pub. MLB is really dropping the ball on this one.

Because MLB agreed to compensate them to go to Japan, where MLB will make millions (now and continuing) off the labor of the players. The whole point of the trip for MLB is to make head way into the Japanese market. Players have leverage to get compensated and they use it. What's wrong with that?

Apparently, there is disagreement over the term "uniformed personnel". It sounds pretty fishy on MLBs part, as it seems that coaches and staff were compensated in the past.

Nice job Sox players, do the right thing.

Don't get me wrong. I totally agree with both of these posts and it's clear that MLB is a pile of crap. I just find it odd that it took an additional 40k per player to get them to agree to go. Like others have said, that's a drop in the bucket for a bunch of these guys. If they didn't want to go, it seems strange that an additional 40k tipped the scales.

But if the coaches are giving clinics and working the whole time, essentially on behalf of MLB, they should absolutely be compensated for their efforts. And if that was part of the agreement, they are totally in the right here.

Just want to clear that up.

[DJnVa]

Its unclear to me - are the players also each getting $40K from MLB for this trip (some previous pieces seemed to infer this, although that doesn't seem to make much sense)? If so, all the guys on the team making more than $10M annually could just sign their checks over to the coaches. Or just Manny could do it even if they aren't getting an extra $40K each - just a thought. If the League really did back off from a commitment, then indeed the players are in the right to hold the gun to their heads with the threat of not traveling. The players will be out sight seeing while the coaches are running clinics - they deserve the pay.

It's an "appearance fee"--at least that was how ESPN termed it. And sure, the Sox players *could* easily foot the bill, but that's not really the point.

And the players will be running the clinics as well.

Don't get me wrong. I totally agree with both of these posts and it's clear that MLB is a pile of crap. I just find it odd that it took an additional 40k per player to get them to agree to go. Like others have said, that's a drop in the bucket for a bunch of these guys. If they didn't want to go, it seems strange that an additional 40k tipped the scales.

It's like any other job though. You do something that's not part of your original deal, you get compensated. Would you give up an hour of OT pay because it's "only" another $40 in your paycheck?

Edited by DJnVa, 19 March 2008 - 09:59 AM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I'm assuming the discrepancy here is that coaches are not part of the union, the players are. The union wasn't going to let the players go to Japan without something in return, so they got the $40k per player. The coaches don't have that kind of leverage; isn't it the same reason why the coaches were there during the strike, they had no choice?

If the league reneged on an agreement, than it's absolute BS. But if it was just a misunderstanding on the Sox part, I don't know what you do.

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 19 March 2008 - 09:59 AM.

[pedro1918]

Don't get me wrong. I totally agree with both of these posts and it's clear that MLB is a pile of crap. I just find it odd that it took an additional 40k per player to get them to agree to go. Like others have said, that's a drop in the bucket for a bunch of these guys. If they didn't want to go, it seems strange that an additional 40k tipped the scales.

But if the coaches are giving clinics and working the whole time, essentially on behalf of MLB, they should absolutely be compensated for their efforts. And if that was part of the agreement, they are totally in the right here.

Just want to clear that up.

But it isn't 40K that tipped the scale. The actual amount being discussed is irrelevant. It's that MLB appears to have reneged on an agreement.

At least in the eyes of the players.

Edited by pedro1918, 19 March 2008 - 09:59 AM.

[SoxScout]

It's an "appearance fee"--at least that was how ESPN termed it. And sure, the Sox players *could* easily foot the bill, but that's not really the point.

Youkilis has said the players would do just that, according to EEI, but then this thing blew up and the boycott stuff happened.

[glennhoffmania]

But it isn't 40K that tipped the scale. The actaul amount being discussed is irrelevant. It's that MLB appears to have reneged on an agreement.

At least in the eyes of the players.

Again, I understand that. I'm talking about two separate things.

1. MLB sucks and they're trying to screw over the coaches. The Sox' actions are admirable and I totally agree with them. If MLB agreed to a deal with the coaches, they need to uphold their end, whether it's $100 or $40,000.

2. It's odd to me that MLB had to agree to the players' "stipend" to make the trip happen. I realize that this isn't what the dispute is about but today is the first I heard of this $40k stipend arrangement.

The two issues are completely unrelated.

[Remagellan]

I'm glad to see this team takes the red in their Red Sox seriously.

What is wrong with Selig and company? Must every season begin with some display of their insatiable avarice? Last season it was denying the cable companies the baseball package to strong-arm them into putting the Baseball Channel on basic, and this year it's this penny-pinching. Do they really believe the savings realized by screwing the coaching staffs out of this money is worth the negative publicity for doing so? These people are putting up with a tremendous inconvenience for the sole purpose of helping the MLB sell more gear in Japan; the least MLB can do is pay them this relative pittance.

[DJnVa]

Youkilis has said the players would do just that, according to EEI, but then this thing blew up and the boycott stuff happened.

Good. I'm glad they may be holding Selig's feet to the fire over something. I'd think the Sox hold all the cards. The MLB can't call their bluff and have the trip cancelled.

[Remagellan]

Good. I'm glad they may be holding Selig's feet to the fire over something. I'd think the Sox hold all the cards. The MLB can't call their bluff and have the trip cancelled.

Of course if the Sox refuse to go and the A's get on the plane, the season will begin with two forfeited losses.

[SoxScout]

Oakland general manager Billy Beane was driving to his office in Oakland when informed about possible boycotts by Red Sox players not to play today's final exhibition game or to take the trip to Japan is coaches aren't paid the $40,000 they thought they were promised.

"I first found out about it yesterday when I dinner with my manager Bob Geren, and he told me about it," Beane said. "I think everyone on our staff, from what I was told was disappointed. I think that's safe to say."

Asked whether he knew of his players or coaches taking the action the Sox have he said, "I'm not aware of that. I'll probably no more when I get into the office. Looks like the Red Sox players have mobilized their forces."

http://www.boston.co..._ongoing_o.html

[Marbleheader]

Just another shining example that wholesale changes are needed at MLB. What a bunch of bumbling fools the clowns are. The owners that keep Selig as commissioner share the blame here as well.