37 replies to this topic

[BrooklynDog45]

Coco Crisp to Mets for Angel Pagan

Edited by AlNipper49, 12 March 2008 - 02:27 PM.
added more topical title

[jtn46]

Coco Crisp to Mets for Angel Pagan

Listening now. That's an awful deal.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Ugh, what would be the point. 26 years old with a career 710 minor league OPS, no power or on base skills. Lets hope not.

[rembrat]

There has to be more.. this can't be all.. let's wait for the rest of the deal.

[CaptainLaddie]

Yeah, that makes no sense.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Just a rumor...phew.

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 12 March 2008 - 01:15 PM.

[Steve Dillard]

There has to be more.. this can't be all.. let's wait for the rest of the deal.

Ed Coleman's report (broke into M&MD) said one-for-one deal, but also said he couldn't confirm or deny deal.

[DJnVa]

Every time these things break the initial reports are usually missing a detail or two. Let's hope that's the case here.

[templeUsox]

There is absolutely no chance this is legit.

This is said before every controversial trade we make, fwiw.

[DJnVa]

This is said before every controversial trade we make, fwiw.

True. Anything being said on the Sox broadcast?

[E5 Yaz]

True. Anything being said on the Sox broadcast?

Remy has some stuff for sale.

This seems awfully light in return in this CF market.

[NomarRS05]

Rotoworld picking up on the story as well. If true, it puts a damper on the day.

[Rudy Pemberton]

But can you think of one reason why the Sox would do this?

Maybe if hee wants out and is making noise about it? It also saves them a substantial amount of money. Granted, the Mets situation doesn't appear to offer him a long term position either though.

Is Lofton still out there? The Sox could just sign him, which would make feel a lot better about this, I guess.

(Glad to hear just a rumor.....)

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 12 March 2008 - 01:16 PM.

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Hasn't been mentioned on the MLBtv feed.

Payback for overpaying for Santana to keep him away from the Yanks........?

[SawxSince67]

Thank you, Corsi!

Mets fans also think it's a pointless trade:

Dammit. I like Pagan. He’s homegrown. And maybe he’s turned a corner with the bat due to working with HoJo. He’s younger than Crisp. Crisp hasn’t hit for two years. I really don’t see any benefit to this trade, not to mention Crisp costs a lot more than Pagan.

We reward a 100% hustle guy who is having a great spring by sending him off in exchange for a guy who hit in the .220s for most of last year?

[joewoodfan]

It's worth noting that the Mets have Alou playing left. Alou, 41, is sidelined with a hernia.

Beltran in center is hobbling through knee surgery recovery.

To a WFAN listener, this trade could make a lot of sense, even assuming more than Pagan. These each appear to be short-term problems, but with guys who have long-term strings of problems like this. Alou's age is particularly of concern.

Edit: Sawx67 pre-emptively corrected my bolded comment.

Edited by joewoodfan, 12 March 2008 - 01:25 PM.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

But can you think of one reason why the Sox would do this?

If they wanted to upgrade at "NAME" there aren't many better active players...

[PedroKsBambino]

No idea if the report is accurate, obviously, but with Beltran having some leg issues there's a clear logic to this for the Mets I think. Crisp in CF and Beltran/Church in the corners is a terrific defensive OF, and you can use Beltran in CF when and if Alou returns against LHP or to rest one of the others. Obviously, Beltran's agreement to this is open to question and yes, I realize when he went there initially he wanted to play CF exclusively.

Even if he's in LF, Coco is an interesting add for them if the cost is nothing. The Sox, I suppose, may have reached a Jay Payton point with Coco (who perhaps is on a sick-out right now?) or perhaps there's simply more to this deal...it would not be the first time a beat reporter ignored the name of a prospect they didn't recognize but who actually has a reasonable amount of value.

I'm sure we'll find out!

Edited by PedroKsBambino, 12 March 2008 - 01:27 PM.

[The Flying Dutchman]

If this is the case, and there aren’t any other prospects coming back I would have much rather preferred to see Ellsbury dealt in a Santana deal.

[NYCSox]

Jim Callis isn't buying it:

Chris (Hoboken, NJ): WFAN in NY is reporting a possible Angel Pagan for CoCo Crisp swap.. thoughts? Seems like an odd trade if true...

SportsNation Jim Callis: (2:27 PM ET ) I think the odds of that being true are about .000000000001 percent, though several of you have sent in some version of this. Pagan has little major league value. Crisp has plenty, and his salary is reasonable, too.

Link to chat

[Pumpsie]

I think this is a viable trade.

The Mets need someone reliable ...NOW. They're in a GFIN mode. Crisp fills the bill and will be a good fit patrolling Shea's big outfield. By the end of the year, the Met fans will be saying that Crisp is the best defensive center fielder EVER. They can move Beltran to right if they have to.

Pagan is interesting in that he'd make an excellent 4th outfielder for us, at lower cost. He can spell both Ellsbury in center and Drew in right. He's also righthanded which also makes him perfect for platooning with Drew. This may mean the end of Kielty, however.

[8]

Angel Pagan's stat page

[YouLookAdopted]

I think this is total bunk, unless it turns out to be a multi-player deal. Why would the Sox want to get a 26 year old outfielder with below average on base skills back in a trade for Coco?

[xjack]

I think this is a viable trade.

I could see the Sox having some marginal interest in Pagan, but there has to be another piece to this trade... If Matt Murton wasn't enough to land Crisp, then why would the Sox accept just Pagan?

[kartvelo]

Would Pagan be an upgrade from Kielty? He certainly seems like a downgrade from Crisp, his hot ST notwithstanding. But it seems unlikely this would be purely a cost move.

edit: of course, it also would open up a roster spot, if they needed one

Edited by kartvelo, 12 March 2008 - 01:44 PM.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Thank you, Corsi!

Mets fans also think it's a pointless trade:

Dammit. I like Pagan. He's homegrown. And maybe he's turned a corner with the bat due to working with HoJo. He's younger than Crisp. Crisp hasn't hit for two years. I really don't see any benefit to this trade, not to mention Crisp costs a lot more than Pagan.

We reward a 100% hustle guy who is having a great spring by sending him off in exchange for a guy who hit in the .220s for most of last year?

He played in the Mets system from 2000-2005 but made his debut with the Cubs, who he was with the last 2 years.

He resigned with the Mets exactly 1 week ago.

[yecul]

It is a bad trade in terms of value but a good value in terms of fit.

I'm not sure that it's terribly out of character. Say what you want about his value at the time, but the Nomar trade fits that type. To a lesser extent since OCab wasn't a non-MLer.

Boston has shown that they are willing to move a player to put him in a better spot if they think it might end up being an issue or to find a better fit.

The market for Crisp is obviously thin. This might actually be the best of the lot -- not necessarily in terms of value, but for a fit who knows, it might be. If true I think the trade is not a good one and I would be disappointed.

Edit --

Getting a reserve CF would make sense. Who else is going to do it, Drew and the redhead? However, that type of player should carry marginal value and be a secondary part of the deal, not the centerpiece or sole acquisition. A decent prospect + him could be acceptable.

Edited by yecul, 12 March 2008 - 02:00 PM.

[Pumpsie]

I could see the Sox having some marginal interest in Pagan, but there has to be another piece to this trade... If Matt Murton wasn't enough to land Crisp, then why would the Sox accept just Pagan?

Well, maybe there's a prospect involved or it's total bunk as Callis suspects.

[The Flying Dutchman]

It is a bad trade in terms of value but a good value in terms of fit.

I'm not sure that it's terribly out of character. Say what you want about his value at the time, but the Nomar trade fits that type. To a lesser extent since OCab wasn't a non-MLer.

Boston has shown that they are willing to move a player to put him in a better spot if they think it might end up being an issue or to find a better fit.

The market for Crisp is obviously thin. This might actually be the best of the lot -- not necessarily in terms of value, but for a fit who knows, it might be. If true I think the trade is not a good one and I would be disappointed.

The Nomar trade was much more equal in value when you accounted for defense. That trade is simmilar only in that it improved clubhouse chemistry, it had very tangable effects in defensive improvement value. (well not tangable in any statistics, but more tangable than clubhouse chemistry)

[yecul]

The Nomar trade was much more equal in value when you accounted for defense. That trade is simmilar only in that it improved clubhouse chemistry, it had very tangable effects in defensive improvement value. (well not tangable in any statistics, but more tangable than clubhouse chemistry)

It wasn't a 1 for 1 deal. If it was then I would agree.

I am not saying it was an unwise move or anything. For the reasons cited and the team's particular needs it made sense.

Regardless, it was just a random example to illustrate the point. Others might make more sense, but it's not worth wasting time over, at least not in this thread.

Edited by yecul, 12 March 2008 - 02:09 PM.

[MidnightC]

Nothing to see here.

Theo Epstein, through media relations director John Blake, said that the Red Sox have not been talking to the Mets. That the story was a fabrication.