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Yam Bag's team A.D.--After Donovan


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#1 sfip


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Posted 06 March 2008 - 03:14 PM

Title updated for the Kevin Kolb era.

Edited by sfip, 06 April 2010 - 11:22 PM.


#2 CaptainLaddie


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Posted 06 March 2008 - 03:21 PM

Wow, really? Takeo was a nice pickup for them last year. I'm a little surprised.

#3 FelixMantilla


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Posted 06 March 2008 - 03:34 PM

That's $5M more towards paying Larry Fitzgerald.

#4 Oil Can Dan

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 05:06 PM

That's $5M more towards paying Larry Fitzgerald.

God do I hope you're right. If I could have my pick of NFL WRs to choose from I think he'd be my first choice. Only 24 years old, high character guy and incredible production so far in his young career. I'd be happy to see the Eagles send Lito, their 1st and even a 2/3/4 next year for the right to make him the highest paid WR in the league.

#5 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 06 March 2008 - 08:42 PM

Wow, really? Takeo was a nice pickup for them last year. I'm a little surprised.



In a sense Takeo did too good a job. He was brought in to solidify the LB corps, to enable the team to drop Trot without the fans assuming they had quit on the season and to nurture the young LBs.

By the end of the season you were seeing such strength in the LB corps the Eagles decided that Bradley, Gaither, Gocong and Jordan look like they have what it takes to be a strong-to-elite unit.

Frankly, I am not all that sure they are wrong. The Eagles LBs were great in the last 6 or 7 games of the season and the young guys were the engine.

Takeo's contribution should not be undervalued. He nurtured those guys in a tough spot after Trot left and when the season seemed totally in the shitter by week 10 he got them fired up and focused. Big thanks to Takeo Spikes from all the Philly fans.

#6 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 06 March 2008 - 08:45 PM

God do I hope you're right. If I could have my pick of NFL WRs to choose from I think he'd be my first choice. Only 24 years old, high character guy and incredible production so far in his young career. I'd be happy to see the Eagles send Lito, their 1st and even a 2/3/4 next year for the right to make him the highest paid WR in the league.



The Eagles are rarely this brazen in how they move in the offseason, but I would be surprised to see March end without either Roy Williams or Larry Fitzgerald in the fold. Let's see, things often go in a different direction than you think, but all these moves over the last few weeks make it look like they are going for a somewhat significant trade of some sort.

#7 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 06 March 2008 - 08:48 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Eagles thread, I give you.....Mr. Randall Cunningham:

PE AND Randall. It's 1990 in my Hammer pants baby

#8 Dogman2


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Posted 07 March 2008 - 09:40 AM

The Eagles are rarely this brazen in how they move in the offseason, but I would be surprised to see March end without either Roy Williams or Larry Fitzgerald in the fold. Let's see, things often go in a different direction than you think, but all these moves over the last few weeks make it look like they are going for a somewhat significant trade of some sort.


If a significant trade is done for either Williams or Fitzgerald, I'd be interested in hearing you opine on what they would be worth in terms of current players and future picks and what impact those draft choices do to the team's outlook in 3 years.

Edited by Dogman2, 07 March 2008 - 09:41 AM.


#9 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 07 March 2008 - 10:01 AM

If a significant trade is done for either Williams or Fitzgerald, I'd be interested in hearing you opine on what they would be worth in terms of current players and future picks and what impact those draft choices do to the team's outlook in 3 years.



Those are all fair questions and it is difficult to say without seeing how things play out. Here is, at the high level, a few opinions:

1) It is very difficult to win a championship without an elite QB and next season the Eagles will have an elite QB in Donovan McNabb. Will he be elite for much longer? Probably not, but I think the QB we saw at the end of the season as he got healthier was a guy who can win a championship. The fact that they have hung on to Donovan this offseason say that they are looking to win now. You want to free up cap space? Send the Donofro to another city.

2) I think that their defense is good enough to win a championship. That's a bold statement I know given that we are only around 6 games into the "LB corps and D Tackles playing effectively" era, but the young defense started to gel at the end of last year and there are excellent reasons for optimism.

3) I like the offensive line a lot, despite the uneven year because of health issues. Runyan has one, maybe two more good years, Shawn Andrews is at the Pro Bowl level, I loved what I saw of Max Jean-Gilles, Thomas has another few years at the elite level if he can stay healthy and Herremans and Clarke do a good, not awesome job. I will not make any claims one way or the other on my man Winston Justice...........

4) Westbrook is, right now, as dangerous a guy coming out of the backfield as anyone I can remember wearing green and silver (possible exception Randall Cunningham, but he was dangerous to both teams). He and Donovan can both grab the team by the scruff of the neck and carry them to a win. It's been a few years since Donovan has been healthy enough to do that, but if he is fully recovered - and it seems that he is - then you have that playmaker.

5) The area of weakness is still the receiving corps. I like Kevin Curtis, I like Reggie Brown, I like Jason Avant and when I squint real hard I can make myself like Hank Baskett, but none of them are game breakers. LJ Smith has been tooo hurt and inconsistent to become Donovan's go to guy. We need a TO-esque guy (talent, not attitude.....) to take this offense to the next level.


In summary, I have absolutely no problem with the Eagles pushing their chips to the center of the table. I said at the end of last season that the Pats made some interesting moves and pushed their chips to the center of the table when some folks were calling for tweaks and rebuilds in certain areas, and they came 2 minutes from an unreal season. I think the Eagles have the foundation in place to make a strong run, so using all this free cap space (kudos to management, etc., etc., and why the fuck couldn't you have done this between 2001 and 2003?) makes sense.

#10 Dogman2


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Posted 07 March 2008 - 02:15 PM

Thanks for the answer. I think you were able to figure my direction with my original questions.

1. I agree with the win now approach with McNabb. I believe his maturation is complete given the number of injuries he has had over the last few years. The football he played at the end of last year was very solid both in his in-decision making and his ability to adapt to defensive strategy. I think he has finally has mastered the entire field perception of the "elite" QB. As far as the cap space comment, I think you are right in that if a trade were to happen in the coming weeks for a big paly receiver that netted another team a number of draft choices, McNabb is the cap casualty in the next three years if they don't win now.

2. The addition of Samuels now makes your DB's incredibly solid while giving tons of flexibility to Kiffen and his defensive strategy while having a trading chip in Lito. I still think Asante was overpaid, but winning negates that.

3. I don't know enough about your offensive line for comment so I defer to your judgement.

4. Not enough is said about the impact Westbrook has on McNabb and what he is capable of opening up for your receivers /TE's. Westbrook is the most dangerous man out of the backfield, IMO, on any team in the league. His versatility alone makes McNabb that much better.

5. THe addition of either a Williams or a Fitz of the league makes your receiving corp. a top 10 in my book. With West/ McNabb and elite receiver you now have a top 5 offense if the O-line maintains the status qou.

6. LB's are the weakness if an elite receiver is signed. You know more about them then I do but from your answer it seems the jury may be out.

In summary, an elite receiver makes McNabb that much more versatile in that his option become dangerous to whoever touches the ball. Philly, with this receiver, should be a top 2 team in the NFC.

Edited by Dogman2, 07 March 2008 - 02:46 PM.


#11 DegenerateSoxFan

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 02:47 PM

4. Not enough is said about the impact Westbrook has on McNabb and what he is capable of opening up for your receivers TE's. Westbrook is the most dangerous man out of the backfield, IMO, on any team in the league. His versatility alone makes McNabb that much better.


Westbrook is one of my favorite non-Patriot players. The Pats contained him pretty well in the their last matchup, but as a result, A.J. Feeley (!) had a career day.

#12 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 08 March 2008 - 10:54 AM

Westbrook is one of my favorite non-Patriot players. The Pats contained him pretty well in the their last matchup, but as a result, A.J. Feeley (!) had a career day.



Not to go too nuts here, but one other strengths Westbrook brings to the table is that he is a smart player who can block like a house. Very few RBs of competence can pick up a defensive end or even D tackle and take him out of the play as well as Westbrook can. This skill has developed over the last few seasons, but basically I have a full blown Westbrook hard-on. If the Eagles can keep him for the next few years of his prime and then trade him to the Raiders for 11 draft picks they will have gotten unreal value out of a kid from Villanova that no one other than Mel Kiper had heard of (myself included.....my exact comment on draft day was something along the lines of "maybe they are looking for a guy who knows the rental market for the other draft picks." Yes, I am not smart).

#13 DannyHeep


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Posted 08 March 2008 - 11:10 AM

If anyone is wondering if the Eagles should pay for Larry Fitzgerald now, just take a look at what Randy Moss did for Brady, or what TO does for Romo.

Larry Fitzgerald makes this team a playoff lock, and a NFC championship probable as long as Mcnabb is throwing him the ball.

#14 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 09 March 2008 - 07:38 PM

If anyone is wondering if the Eagles should pay for Larry Fitzgerald now, just take a look at what Randy Moss did for Brady, or what TO does for Romo.

Larry Fitzgerald makes this team a playoff lock, and a NFC championship probable as long as Mcnabb is throwing him the ball.


I guess the only question mark is whether Larry Fitgerald really is at that level. I am 65% confident that he is.

It's that 35% that sucks donkey balls.

#15 bigsid05

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 08:43 PM

I guess the only question mark is whether Larry Fitgerald really is at that level. I am 65% confident that he is.

It's that 35% that sucks donkey balls.


What's contributing to that 35% feeling? He has been incredibly productive without have anything special at quarterback.

#16 Oil Can Dan

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 10:32 PM

What's contributing to that 35% feeling? He has been incredibly productive without have anything special at quarterback.

True, but Kurt Warner could get the ball to you. More importantly Fitz always had Boldin on the other side of the field. Not a small thing, to me.

#17 bigsid05

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 11:18 PM

True, but Kurt Warner could get the ball to you. More importantly Fitz always had Boldin on the other side of the field. Not a small thing, to me.


That's a good point but he's put up good numbers even in games Boldin has missed.

#18 Oil Can Dan

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 12:13 PM

That's a good point but he's put up good numbers even in games Boldin has missed.

True. I guess I don't really have anything negative to say about Fitz. I don't think he's going to be traded anyways as all indications are that they're trying to work things out and if they can't, that AZ is comfortable going into the season with him and his $15M cap number for '08. Even if they decide to listen to offers or actively try to trade him I think it's going to be a challenge to find common ground as I believe AZ is going to discount the fact that from a financial perspective, Fitz is a wreck and they'll instead point to his productivity, age, etc. I think it's going to be difficult for AZ to get separate the talent from the cost, IMO.

For example - do I think Fitz is worth Lito Sheppard, a 1st, a 2nd and a 4th? Maybe, but when I take into consideration the contract he's going to need to sign an extension then the answer is absolutely not.

#19 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 10 March 2008 - 11:25 PM

What's contributing to that 35% feeling? He has been incredibly productive without have anything special at quarterback.



As much as I hate to say it because it reeks of the kind of football drivel that is all too common in this forum, I have never seen Larry Fitzgerald just take a game by the scruff of its neck and either win it or come real close against a good team. I said the same thing about Adalius Thomas when the Pats acquired him last year, so I have to hold myself to the same standard when talking about my own team. Admittedly, I have probably seen only 6-7 Cardinals games in the last few seasons, but I can't remember ever seeing the "Larry Fitzgerald game" where he just carried the team on his shoulders.

And that doesn't make him a bad receiver, that just makes him a receiver you worry about a little when your team is looking to make a big commitment.

#20 BigSoxFan


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Posted 10 March 2008 - 11:46 PM

As much as I hate to say it because it reeks of the kind of football drivel that is all too common in this forum, I have never seen Larry Fitzgerald just take a game by the scruff of its neck and either win it or come real close against a good team. I said the same thing about Adalius Thomas when the Pats acquired him last year, so I have to hold myself to the same standard when talking about my own team. Admittedly, I have probably seen only 6-7 Cardinals games in the last few seasons, but I can't remember ever seeing the "Larry Fitzgerald game" where he just carried the team on his shoulders.

And that doesn't make him a bad receiver, that just makes him a receiver you worry about a little when your team is looking to make a big commitment.


To be fair to Fitzy, there were certainly a lot of "Larry Fitzgerald Games" in college and he has gone on to have a very good NFL career so far. I have no idea what his salary demands are but he's a great talent and apparently has a pretty good head on his shoulders. Given the TO fiasco, I think Eagles fans would really take to him and he'd give the team a great redzone option.

#21 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:08 AM

To be fair to Fitzy, there were certainly a lot of "Larry Fitzgerald Games" in college and he has gone on to have a very good NFL career so far. I have no idea what his salary demands are but he's a great talent and apparently has a pretty good head on his shoulders. Given the TO fiasco, I think Eagles fans would really take to him and he'd give the team a great redzone option.



I don't disagree that he is, at least, a pretty darned good player. But if we are going to put a lot of salary cap space towards him and also give up Lito and then a draft pick or two I really want a guy who can break open a game.

I am not sure that Roy Williams isn't the better option for the Eagles. I think he would come at a lower price and I think he would be pretty damned effective in our offense. Roy Williams' strength is catching balls in stride (listen to any Texas fan talk about that) and our offense is all about tempo and timing.

#22 templeUsox


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Posted 11 March 2008 - 09:35 AM

If a guy has 100 catches, 1400 yards, and 10 TD's in his 24-year old season, I don't really care if he has signature games or not.

Edited by templeUsox, 11 March 2008 - 09:35 AM.


#23 BigSoxFan


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Posted 11 March 2008 - 10:10 AM

I don't disagree that he is, at least, a pretty darned good player. But if we are going to put a lot of salary cap space towards him and also give up Lito and then a draft pick or two I really want a guy who can break open a game.

I am not sure that Roy Williams isn't the better option for the Eagles. I think he would come at a lower price and I think he would be pretty damned effective in our offense. Roy Williams' strength is catching balls in stride (listen to any Texas fan talk about that) and our offense is all about tempo and timing.


Roy Williams vs. Fitzgerald would be an interesting debate. I lived in TX during Williams' UT career and saw many of his games. He's certainly a great talent. Both guys need to get off their miserable teams to reach their potential. One thing that shocked me after looking it up is that Williams has only had one 1000 yard season in his first 4 years. I guess he was on his way this year before he got hurt.

Williams is faster than Fitzgerald but I like Fitzgerald better overall. His hands are better than Williams and he's a taller receiver. He's also only 24/25 whereas Williams is 26/27. If the prices are similar, I'd go with Fitzgerald. Rumors have it that the Cowboys are interested in acquiring Williams to be TO's eventual replacement.

#24 Oil Can Dan

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:03 AM

Stick a fork in Fitz - he's come to terms with Arizona on a new contract.

#25 sfip


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Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:21 AM

Stick a fork in Fitz - he's come to terms with Arizona on a new contract.

Where are you seeing that? It's not in rotoworld or Google News.

#26 jsinger121


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Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:41 AM

Where are you seeing that? It's not in rotoworld or Google News.


WEEI just said that Fitzgerald reported it on his website.

#27 FelixMantilla


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Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:54 AM

Larry Fitzgerald's site

#28 Frank Malzone's Calzone

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 12:13 PM

Larry Fitzgerald's site



Also reporting on ESPN.com. Wowzers, alot of money for a guy I don't even think when healthy is the best WR on the team (Boldin).

#29 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 11 March 2008 - 12:42 PM

If a guy has 100 catches, 1400 yards, and 10 TD's in his 24-year old season, I don't really care if he has signature games or not.

`

An absolutely fair comment and one I can't really defend. I feel like the old Yankee guard sitting down in Tampa grumbling about how a guy doesn't "look" like a baseball player, because the guy's stats are very, very impressive. It's just...I don't know....for Lito + draft picks I would like a guy who had spiked the ball on ths star in Dallas.....you know, without all that totally ridiculous locker room crap. And like others have said, because of Anquan Boldin I worry a little that you are getting a guy whose stats have a little Alvin Harper in them.

My Roy Williams lust is growing though as I watch more film of him. I would love to add that guy.

#30 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 26 April 2008 - 10:53 AM

OK. Draft day and arguably one of the most interesting draft days for the Eagles in a number of years. One could make the case that - outside of WR - there is currently no huge "area of weakness" for the Eagles for 2008, but on the flip there are lots of areas where we need more depth and are banking on a relatively old dude to carry some freight (OT, S).

And of course, we always need DEs, even with Cole, Thomas and my man Abiamiri in the mix.

But let's see. I like where we sit in the draft and I am interested in seeing where the organization goes this year. Last year's draft had me ready to blow my brains out but - much like the Sheppard/Brown draft - the organization looked far smarter than me. Which, you know, they kind of should because, you know, that's their job.

Joe Banner, Tom Heckert, Andy Reid, creep to the mic like vandals.

#31 CaptainLaddie


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Posted 26 April 2008 - 11:23 AM

Any chance we see the Pats and Eagles swap spots, with Sheppard going to the Pats and a later pick to the Eagles?

#32 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 26 April 2008 - 01:01 PM

Any chance we see the Pats and Eagles swap spots, with Sheppard going to the Pats and a later pick to the Eagles?



Hard to say. I don't think either team likes the talent to price-you-would-have-to-pay-to-sign-them ratio of the 7 pick in this draft. But you never know.

I have a side bet that the Pats trade out of that slot.

#33 templeUsox


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Posted 26 April 2008 - 01:04 PM

Any chance we see the Pats and Eagles swap spots, with Sheppard going to the Pats and a later pick to the Eagles?

I could see it. I think the Eagles covet Branden Albert and would trade up to get him. There have also been "rumors" that the Eagles are looking to trade into the top 10. We'll see though.

#34 Oil Can Dan

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 02:51 PM

If they trade up I think it'll be Albert, and if they stay put I think it'll be Devin Thomas. I'm fine with either assuming the cost to trade up isn't much.

If they could somehow land Roy Williams I'd be thrilled, but it ain't happening.

#35 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 26 April 2008 - 04:01 PM

If they trade up I think it'll be Albert, and if they stay put I think it'll be Devin Thomas. I'm fine with either assuming the cost to trade up isn't much.

If they could somehow land Roy Williams I'd be thrilled, but it ain't happening.


The fact that the Lions just went OT as opposed to DB just made me feel very marginally more optimistic that the Igs can pull off a Williams-Sheppard deal.

But I am a heck of a lot less optimistic than I was a few months ago.......

#36 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 26 April 2008 - 04:05 PM

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#37 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 26 April 2008 - 04:06 PM

FUCK!!!!!!

Well, in fairness, Otah is good. Still. We are getting a little predictable.

#38 DannyHeep


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Posted 26 April 2008 - 05:31 PM

As much as I hate to say it because it reeks of the kind of football drivel that is all too common in this forum, I have never seen Larry Fitzgerald just take a game by the scruff of its neck and either win it or come real close against a good team. I said the same thing about Adalius Thomas when the Pats acquired him last year, so I have to hold myself to the same standard when talking about my own team. Admittedly, I have probably seen only 6-7 Cardinals games in the last few seasons, but I can't remember ever seeing the "Larry Fitzgerald game" where he just carried the team on his shoulders.

And that doesn't make him a bad receiver, that just makes him a receiver you worry about a little when your team is looking to make a big commitment.


He plays for Arizona, they could make Brady & Moss look like Secules & Brisby.

#39 Oil Can Dan

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 08:45 PM

Today was a very good day for the organization, I think. I can't believe how badly they fleeced the Panthers. And tonight I'll dream that the fleecing of the Panthers 1st rounder in '09 will somehow translate into Roy Williams or Anquan Boldin.

I know nothing of college ball, but apparently the true value in this draft is in rounds 3-5, and we've got a crapload of picks there. Looking forward to seeing what develops.

#40 templeUsox


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Posted 26 April 2008 - 09:20 PM

Today was a very good day for the organization, I think. I can't believe how badly they fleeced the Panthers. And tonight I'll dream that the fleecing of the Panthers 1st rounder in '09 will somehow translate into Michael Oher or Michael Crabtree.

Fixed.

Edited by templeUsox, 26 April 2008 - 09:20 PM.


#41 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 27 April 2008 - 04:10 PM

I like the small school strategy we went with but we better do something with all the assets we have stockpiled. Lito, Carolina's first rounder and a ton of cap space just HAS to be flipped into something that can help us in 2008........doesn't it?

For those of you scoring at home....the Lions did not take a corner in this draft. I'm just saying.

#42 FelixMantilla


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Posted 01 May 2008 - 09:00 AM

Trade Lito for picks. Then use picks to trade for Chad Johnson or Boldin. But don't go after Roy Williams. So says my friend Manny, so don't blame me. :o

Edited by FelixMantilla, 01 May 2008 - 09:01 AM.


#43 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 01 May 2008 - 09:03 AM

Here's a naive but honest question: after their TO experience, wouldn't the Eagles be a bit gun-shy about bringing in a talented and amusing but certified loon like Chad Johnson? Wouldn't that be an understandable caution?

#44 CaptainLaddie


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Posted 01 May 2008 - 09:09 AM

Chad may be a whacko, but he's not... malevolent (at least for the most part).

#45 MarcSullivaFan

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 09:43 AM

Chad may be a whacko, but he's not... malevolent (at least for the most part).


Didn't he take a swing at Lewis during halftime of the playoff loss to the Stillers? While I used to think of CJ as a harmless goofball, at this point I think the comp to TO is pretty reasonable. I mean, Lewis obviously has the patience of Job (to his detriment, and the detriment of the Bengals) and even he has had it with Chad.

That said, the Eagles would be frightening with him on board.

#46 templeUsox


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Posted 02 May 2008 - 10:22 AM

Here's a naive but honest question: after their TO experience, wouldn't the Eagles be a bit gun-shy about bringing in a talented and amusing but certified loon like Chad Johnson? Wouldn't that be an understandable caution?

I think there's definitely truth to that. But I think that gave the Eagles pause about going after Moss a year ago and his season last year made them realize that sometimes you need to put up with the antics of a flamboyant receiver in exchange for winning. It's the NFL, you can't win with a team choir boys.

#47 Commander Shears

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 12:16 PM

Here's a naive but honest question: after their TO experience, wouldn't the Eagles be a bit gun-shy about bringing in a talented and amusing but certified loon like Chad Johnson? Wouldn't that be an understandable caution?

After missing the playoffs, I think Owens' and McNabb's production and the fact that they made the Super Bowl together have become the dominant memories of 2004.

#48 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 02 May 2008 - 10:33 PM

Here's a naive but honest question: after their TO experience, wouldn't the Eagles be a bit gun-shy about bringing in a talented and amusing but certified loon like Chad Johnson? Wouldn't that be an understandable caution?


Tough to say. The team wants to win in this 2-3 year winow so at some point they need to roll the dice on offense.

Having said that, with Andy having had a hell of a difficult year behind him, with them grooing McNabb's replacement and with McNabb himself entering the last Act of his career in Philadelphia you have to think that the will be a little gun shy

#49 SoxScout


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Posted 30 May 2008 - 09:16 AM

http://www.950espn.c...an-Seltzer.aspx

If Lito Sheppard reports to minicamp on June 3rd, he will be playing WR as well as CB. It my be a ploy by the Eagles to get him to show up.

#50 Rick Burlesons Yam Bag


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Posted 30 May 2008 - 11:01 AM

http://www.950espn.c...an-Seltzer.aspx

If Lito Sheppard reports to minicamp on June 3rd, he will be playing WR as well as CB. It my be a ploy by the Eagles to get him to show up.


Lito has been coming to the minicamps anyhow and frankly he has been a good soldier. I have no idea what the fuck this is all about nor why the fuck Roy Williams isn't currently wearing Green and Silver.