137 replies to this topic

[Barbara]

As a precursor to SoSH’s ‘adopt-a-team,' I thought we could review what’s going on in ST. Where else to start, but with the AL East. Baltimore is now affiliated with my AAA team – the Norfolk Tides – and we always try to make it up to Fenway South for a couple of games each season. Reasons for me to see what faces the Os in 2008 and to pose some questions about what kind of year may be in store.

Three key words describe the 2008 season for the Baltimore Orioles. Rebuilding, rebuilding, rebuilding. But, must a team hit rock bottom before pulling themselves back up? It could be that kind of year for the Orioles who may end up in the cellar of the AL East. Last year they finished with a 69-93 record. But the Rays’ young players are more seasoned and may give more teams than Baltimore a run for the money. Manager Dave Trembly, who took over in June last year after an 8 game losing streak, went on to a 40-53 record. Trembly is not conceding the season and will be emphasizing the basics in ST. The seeds have been planted, will interfering owner Peter Angelos let the team grow?

Who is Going/Going/Gone?
1. Gone > Eric Bedard – the lefty was traded to Seattle for 4 pitchers, and Adam Jones a CF and rookie to watch. RHP Chris Tillman was ranked the Mariners #3 prospect by Baseball America.
2. Gone > Miguel Tejada – the O’s offensive leader was traded to the Astros for 5 players – 3 young pitchers (Dennis Sarfate, Matt Albers and Troy Patton), veteran OF Luke Scott and IF Mike Costanzo, a potential force.
3. Is Brian Roberts going? Rumors have the Cubs showing the most interest through he says he wants to stay. With the rebuilding program, a solid veteran like Roberts, the team’s only All Star, could be a needed mentor.

What’s to Talk About?
1. Pitching - The Os bullpen was the worst in Baltimore history (5.71 bullpen ERA) and without Bedard the rotation could struggle, but seven pitchers were acquired from the Bedard and Tejada trades. Injured Chris Ray and Danys Baez are expected to be out all season. A 5-man rotation has no clearly identified 4th or 5th starter. Returning are starters Jeremy Guthrie, Daniel Cabrera (who lost 18 last year) and Adam Loewen (who was out injured last season, but has since had a screw inserted in his elbow). A possible 4th would be Steve Trachsel (back to Baltimore from the Cubs). The 5th position is anyone’s guess. New to the team are George Sherrill (Seattle), Dennis Sarfate (Astros), Randor Bierd (minor leaguer with Detriot), Greg Aquino (Brewers). Sherrill, coming off a career year, is being looked at as the closer, but has only 4 career saves.

Rick Kranitz is the new pitching coach replacing Leo Mazzone. Kranitz’s tolerant personality could be a better fit for not only the new young pitchers, but returning veterans as well. How will the young arms do and will Cabrera finally develop control?

2. Position Players
Catcher: At 31, Ramon Hernandez should be a team leader, but last year didn’t display a take charge attitude and his numbers were down as well (.258 / 9HRs / 62 RBIs). Back up possibilities include returning Guillermo Quiroz who needs to stay healthy and Mike Costanzo, normally a 3rd baseman, may be tried behind the plate.

The Bases: All have returning players – Millar, Roberts and Mora.
1) Millar - what more can be said?
2) Roberts is needed both on the field and in the club house and put up decent numbers last year (.290 / 12 HRs / 57 RBIs).
3) Mora has been declining for 3 years now and at 36 may have to fight for his base with rookie Scott Moore.

SS: Big hole here with Tejada gone. The job is 23 yr old Luiz Hernandez’s to lose (He hit.290 in 69 at-bats; however, in six seasons in the minors, he only managed to hit .250.) Watch Brandon Fahey push Luiz especially if Brandon is hot at the plate.

Outfield:
1) Adam Jones – Is he the real deal? He has speed and a strong arm. He is only 22, but is making 2008 rookies to watch lists and is expected to be the Os starting CF. In 139 major league at-bats, he hit .230 with 3 HRs and 12 RBIs. Compare this to our CF (we know his numbers and only 6 players stole more bases) Except for Jones being the St Louis Minor League Player of the Year, are we just seeing a lot of hype?
2) Nick Markakis - a team favorite, is solid in RF and and a good year at the plate (.300 / 23 HRs / 112 RBIs).
3) LF looks to be Luke Scott, newly acquired from the Astros last year (.255 / 18 HRs / 64 RBIs .504 SP in 132 games).
4) 35-yr old Jay Payton could be like Coco Crisp – odd man out - but his experience may be needed with all that youth on the field. Will he mind be the 4th OF?

DH – Aubrey Huff had off-season hernia surgery and rehab for a hip flexor. He hit for the cycle last year with numbers of .280 / 15 HRs / 72 RBIs.

3. Team Leadership– With Tejada gone, and possibly Roberts, someone needs to step up to help lead the team and the most likely candidate is quiet RF Nick Markakis; however, he is only 24 so he may a leader of the future. Markakis is the player who can hit and field (13 assists) and is a centerpiece of the rebuilding effort. He has said he wants to be more involved in the club house.

So what’s up for Baltimore? A rebuilding year? Or a break-out surprise year with a lot of youth. As David Gassko writes in describing his book Hardball Times Season Preview 2008, “Almost everyone has a chance.” Will that apply to Baltimore?

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

As David Gassko writes in describing his book Hardball Times Season Preview 2008, “Almost everyone has a chance.” Will that apply to Baltimore?

Assuming that Guthrie is simply good and not the second coming, the Os will be lucky to win 60 games this year. But assuming that one or two of the hordes of pitchers they traded for pan out, they could have a very good team in two years with a core of Loewen, Guthrie, the new pitchers, Ray, Jones, Markakis, Rowell, and Wieters.

Also, Garrett Olsen will pitch in the big leagues and be better this year.

[Tito's Pullover]

I will be so bold as to predict that the Orioles will hold the #1 overall draft pick in June of 2009. It's not entirely their fault that they have to contend with two perennial playoff teams, a third team that would be strong in any other division, and a fourth team on the rise that should surprise people (I expect a .500 season from the Rays). Nonetheless, they are in a sad state right now. I'm thinking something around 50-112.

[cannonball 1729]

To start, I should just say that I'm not sold on Trembley. On June 18, he was named interim manager, and the team went 29-28 up through August 21. Then, on August 22, the O's dropped the interim tag and his team promptly went out that night and lost 30-3, kicking off a 9 game losing streak and an 11-25 end of the season. Obviously, it's not particularly meaningful in the grand scheme of whether he's a good manager, but, well, you can't be impressed when a team collapses down the stretch like that.

In a related story, you know how everyone feels like they have a chance in spring training? Yeah, that doesn't seem to apply down here in Baltimore. The bottom line is that they took a team which won 69 games and traded away the ace pitcher and the star shortstop. As the previous post noted, the O's 4 and 5 starter are likely two of Brian Burress, Steve Trachsel, and Garrett Olsen, two guys who haven't pitched much in the bigs and haven't been particularly impressive when they have, and a third who's Steve Trachsel. Granted, they may be better this year, but they're basically replacing Erik Bedard, so an improvement would be unlikely.

The closer, FWIW, will almost undoubtedly be Sherrill; the O's don't really have anyone to challenge him (since Scott Williamson can't stay healthy and Chad Bradford and Jamie Walker, last year's closer tandem, should be a ROOGY and LOOGY, respectively), and the O's don't have any hesitation throwing an unproven guy into the closer role (B.J. Ryan and Chris Ray would be good examples).

As far as Adam Jones, well, he's 22. When our center fielder was 22, he had just finished competing against college kids in the College World Series. Jones, at the same age, already has around 140 at bats in the bigs and is likely the starting center fielder for a major league ballclub. Calling this guy "hype" is a curious designation. In reality, the development of pretty much every prospect in the Seattle system can be described with the phrase, "rushed to the bigs". Jones is one of the few that actually responded positively (that .968 OPS as a 21 year old in AAA is pretty darn impressive).

Edited by cannonball 1729, 25 February 2008 - 10:33 PM.

[Barbara]

To start, I should just say that I'm not sold on Trembley. On June 18, he was named interim manager, and the team went 29-28 up through August 21. Then, on August 22, the O's dropped the interim tag and his team promptly went out that night and lost 30-3, kicking off a 9 game losing streak and an 11-25 end of the season. Obviously, it's not particularly meaningful in the grand scheme of whether he's a good manager, but, well, you can't be impressed when a team collapses down the stretch like that.

In a related story, you know how everyone feels like they have a chance in spring training? Yeah, that doesn't seem to apply down here in Baltimore. The bottom line is that they took a team which won 69 games and traded away the ace pitcher and the star shortstop. As the previous post noted, the O's 4 and 5 starter are likely two of Brian Burress, Steve Trachsel, and Garrett Olsen, two guys who haven't pitched much in the bigs and haven't been particularly impressive when they have, and a third who's Steve Trachsel. Granted, they may be better this year, but they're basically replacing Erik Bedard, so an improvement would be unlikely.

The closer, FWIW, will almost undoubtedly be Sherrill; the O's don't really have anyone to challenge him (since Scott Williamson can't stay healthy and Chad Bradford and Jamie Walker, last year's closer tandem, should be a ROOGY and LOOGY, respectively), and the O's don't have any hesitation throwing an unproven guy into the closer role (B.J. Ryan and Chris Ray would be good examples).

As far as Adam Jones, well, he's 22. When our center fielder was 22, he had just finished competing against college kids in the College World Series. Jones, at the same age, already has around 140 at bats in the bigs and is likely the starting center fielder for a major league ballclub. Calling this guy "hype" is a curious designation. In reality, the development of pretty much every prospect in the Seattle system can be described with the phrase, "rushed to the bigs". Jones is one of the few that actually responded positively (that .968 OPS as a 21 year old in AAA is pretty darn impressive).

Good to hear from someone in Bawlmur. I agree with the 'hype' on Jones and there isn't a lot out there to back it up. But what you said about Seattle seems to nail it. Maybe Jones will get a bit more nuturing at the Yard.

[Fratboy]

This whole thing screams Cleveland Indians circa 2002, except they've started the process 3 months earlier and without the savvy front office. As long as Peter Angelos has his fingers in baseball ops, it's not going to happen. They should look to the Indians, Padres, and Brewers as model organizations attempting a rebuild, and they'll do well to pay attention to what's going to happen in Tampa in two years time. If they don't learn their lessons, they'll not only lose 100+ games this year, but they'll finish in the basement for the next five, and it will NOT be pretty. They'll be the pre-Dayton Moore Royals or the Randy Smith-era Tigers. Yikes.

[January]

To start, I should just say that I'm not sold on Trembley. On June 18, he was named interim manager, and the team went 29-28 up through August 21. Then, on August 22, the O's dropped the interim tag and his team promptly went out that night and lost 30-3, kicking off a 9 game losing streak and an 11-25 end of the season. Obviously, it's not particularly meaningful in the grand scheme of whether he's a good manager, but, well, you can't be impressed when a team collapses down the stretch like that.

I wouldn't read to much into the collapse. By that time, they were totally irrelevant(if not actually mathematically eliminated) and pretty much everyone one the pitching staff who had any velocity or command was down. Talk about playing out the string. And remember Tito's record in Philly. It doesn't mean Trembley is good, but we'll have to wait till he has a team to work with to tell.

They got pretty good returns for Bedard and Tejada. In fact, I'm surprised they were smart enough to enter hard-core rebuilding mode. Mazzone was well regarded as a pitching coach, although he seemed to work for some more than others. Guthrie was a ROY candidate till he got hurt. But yeah, no pitching and no hitting(they were 9th in the AL last year in offense WITH Tejada) means a tough year.

On the plus side, I think they pretty much would get a free pass this year, which may help the kids a bit. I wonder if they peak at the same time as the Rays?

[Fratboy]

On the plus side, I think they pretty much would get a free pass this year, which may help the kids a bit. I wonder if they peak at the same time as the Rays?

The Rays have the best farm system in baseball, without question, and should be in contention for the 2009 season in what will be a very, very tough AL East battle to death a la NL West 2007. The Orioles are where the Rays were 3 years ago, and have just begun the veteran shedding/prospect accumulation phase of the rebuild, whereas the Garza trade for the Rays was a very clear indication that they expect to be competitive (i.e., nearing or surpassing .500) now, but not in win now mode, like the Tigers or Mets.

[cannonball 1729]

I wouldn't read to much into the collapse. By that time, they were totally irrelevant(if not actually mathematically eliminated) and pretty much everyone one the pitching staff who had any velocity or command was down. Talk about playing out the string. And remember Tito's record in Philly. It doesn't mean Trembley is good, but we'll have to wait till he has a team to work with to tell.

This overstates it a bit. Bedard was shut down soon after, but Guthrie pitched through to mid-September, finally shutting down after the team's horrific slide had made it unnecessary for him to show up again. Importantly, though, the team's worst stretch, a 3-17 slide starting the day Trembley was named manager, came with everyone available except Bedard. Sure, he was the ace, but he's still only pitching once every five days. The 3-17 slide was particularly troubling because the O's, coming off of a pretty decent stretch of baseball in August, ran into the the record-setting 30-3 debacle and simply couldn't figure out how to regroup.

More importantly, though, the O's, with the exception of 2004, always seem to play games in September as though they're double-parked. That's part of the problem; the guys in charge just seem to have a knack for how to not get their guys motivated (for whatever reason). I mean, 22 teams get eliminated, but most teams don't necessarily use that as a reason to go into the tank like the Orioles; some of them actually attempt to play the role of spoiler, especially when facing potential playoff teams throughout September. Actually, check this out:

2007: 10-19
2006: 10-19
2005: 12-18
2004: 19-13 (Mazzilli was actually a decent coach, despite what Angelos thought)
2003: 10-16
2002: 4-24 (!) (part of a 4-32 end of the season, the second-worst ever)
2001: 8-19

Those are the September/October records of the O's since the start of the century. If Trembley wants to change the culture around the Orioles, well, that's one place he failed to start.

And of course, we have no idea whether Francona was good in Philly or not. What we do know is that, years later, after another three years of assistant experience, he became a good manager for the Red Sox. Trembley doesn't have that kind of time in Baltimore.

On the plus side, I think they pretty much would get a free pass this year,

Yep. O's fans right now are excited for anything that resembles a plan. Particularly one which involves Angelos staying the hell out of the way.

Edited by cannonball 1729, 26 February 2008 - 01:20 AM.

[January]

Those are the September/October records of the O's since the start of the century. If Trembley wants to change the culture around the Orioles, well, that's one place he failed to start.

And of course, we have no idea whether Francona was good in Philly or not. What we do know is that, years later, after another three years of assistant experience, he became a good manager for the Red Sox. Trembley doesn't have that kind of time in Baltimore.
Yep. O's fans right now are excited for anything that resembles a plan. Particularly one which involves Angelos staying the hell out of the way.

They played spoiler a little last year, they were the team that gave the Sox the AL East. (in the EI innings even. ) I'm not sure if they were tanking or just straight up sucking. I don't think you can draw a whole lot of conclusions from Trembley's driving a ship propelled by the rats jumping off. This year will be alot more meaningful.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

More importantly, though, the O's, with the exception of 2004, always seem to play games in September as though they're double-parked. That's part of the problem; the guys in charge just seem to have a knack for how to not get their guys motivated (for whatever reason). I mean, 22 teams get eliminated, but most teams don't necessarily use that as a reason to go into the tank like the Orioles; some of them actually attempt to play the role of spoiler, especially when facing potential playoff teams throughout September.

Could have something more to do with the makeup of the club rather than the manager - the difference being that the previous incarnations of the Os were an older club, with more established players who probably didn't give a rats ass about being a spoiler. And from what I've heard, the clubhouse was not the type of place were camraderie was king.

This whole thing screams Cleveland Indians circa 2002, except they've started the process 3 months earlier and without the savvy front office. As long as Peter Angelos has his fingers in baseball ops, it's not going to happen.

I think most people would put Andy MacPhail in the top tier of GMs. The only hope for the Os is that since Angelos apparently has signed off on the rebuilding process, he'll let MacPhail rebuild the ship without interference. MacPhail is putting a lot of dinero into scouting and player development.

[Fratboy]

I think most people would put Andy MacPhail in the top tier of GMs. The only hope for the Os is that since Angelos apparently has signed off on the rebuilding process, he'll let MacPhail rebuild the ship without interference. MacPhail is putting a lot of dinero into scouting and player development.

Brain fart. I was still thinking Flanagan was in charge. I'll say "top half," because Dusty Baker didn't want to use the groceries McPhail bought for him, and Hendry was/is the GM of that ship, so who knows really what's going on.

Unless Angelos goes all David Glass and agrees to step out of the way, I remain skeptical.

[Barbara]

If you look at other fairly recent rebuilding efforts (Cleveland as cited by FratBoy, the Rockies, D'Backs, and the Tigers), all made a complete dedication to change. Money was spent on young talent and vets available through free agency. These clubs did not cling to second-rate, over-the-hill players. You may not win for a few years, but the investment must be made. Peter Angelos can be the club's worst enemy at times. Last year (2006?) the fans staged a walk-out during a game to protest the running of the club. If he can truly let the GM manage, the Os might have a chance.

[Mike Boddicker]

If you look at other fairly recent rebuilding efforts (Cleveland as cited by FratBoy, the Rockies, D'Backs, and the Tigers), all made a complete dedication to change. Money was spent on young talent and vets available through free agency. These clubs did not cling to second-rate, over-the-hill players. You may not win for a few years, but the investment must be made. Peter Angelos can be the club's worst enemy at times. Last year (2006?) the fans staged a walk-out during a game to protest the running of the club. If he can truly let the GM manage, the Os might have a chance.

I think the O's will jettison the likes of Payton, Millar, Huff, etc. by midseason.

[Barbara]

3 games played (2W-1L) and no earth-shattering news from the Orioles.

1. Cubs scouts were down watching Brian Roberts during the Marlins series. Os officials will be going to Arizona to look at a deal that may include pitcher Sean Gallagher, SS Ronny Cedeno, pitching prospects Jose Ceda and/or Donald Veal. The Cubs interest in Roberts may have heighten now that Mark DeRosa has received treatment for an irregular heartbeat.

2. Daniel Cabrera had a good first outing. In 3 innings and 27 pitches, he threw 19 strikes.

3. And the Hilton futures has weighed in, putting Baltimore last in the over/unders for total wins. Top and bottom 5:
Boston Red Sox 94
Detroit Tigers 93.5
New York Mets 93.5
New York Yankees 93.5
Los Angeles Angles 92

San Francisco Giants 73
Oakland Athletic 73
Washington Nationals 72.5
Pittsburgh Pirates 70.5
Florida Marlins 69
Baltimore Orioles 64.5

[boggartlaura]

The O's are now 6-5. Which is probably how many wins they'll have in all of April.

The bats were on fire for the first week. They have since cooled down a bit. Mora has been particularly good thus far. It's being reported that he's much more enthusiastic than he was last year. Adam Jones has also been hitting well, although his defense has been shaky at times.

Of the lesser known names, Mike Costanzo and Scott Moore have both been pretty impressive. Moore has been out with a minor injury recently, but he should be back within the next few days. Unfortunately both are 3B/1B so there's no real place for them to play. Moore has been trying LF and 2B as a result. The O's have no decent middle infield prospects in the organization. So if he can play 2B fairly well, he could get some ABs there when Roberts is not playing (or is traded) to avoid having two automatic outs in the lineup. My guess is that Moore will make the team initially with Gibbons suspension. Costanzo will probably start in AAA.

It amazes me how MacPhail got two decent prospects, Moore and Rock Cherry, by trading Steve Trachsel.

The probable back-up catcher Guillermo Quiroz has looked good - although anyone would look good compared to Paul Bako.

And apparently this Markakis guy can hit.

It's harder to tell how things are going on the pitching side of things, because the pitchers have been focusing on specific things instead of on getting outs. Daniel Cabrera has added a change-up, which he threw a lot of in his most recent start. Adam Loewen has had control issues. He's been working on only throwing off speed stuff when the count is 0-2. Potential starter Radhames Liz has been very good thus far, but he hasn't pitched a lot.

Millar has been saying that Trembley has done a great job running spring training camp and that this is the best one he's ever been too. It makes me optimistic that maybe we'll only lose 95 games instead 100.

Roberts is still on the team. It's been reported that MacPhail has offers from both the Cubs and the Indians. There have been rumors of Roberts possibly being traded to the Cubs since mid-December, which officially makes this a longer process than the Bedard trade.

[Hardballs]

Good post Laura

Edited by Hardballs, 11 March 2008 - 09:03 PM.

[Barbara]

Updates from the 'Venice of America' - The Orioles have renewed Nick Markakis' contract. Markakis will get $455,000, up from $400,000 last season. He has less than 3 years of ML service and won't be eligible for arbitration until this winter. Even though this is $65,000 more than the league minimum, is it a good offer for a player who is considered to be a key to the rebuilding efforts? This compares to the recent resignings of Red Sox players: 1) Dustin Pedroia - $457,000, and 2) Jacoby Ellsbury - $406,000.

With the Dodgers departing Vero Beach (after 60 years) for Arizona next year, the Os are rumored to be moving from Fort Lauderdale. The FAA has held up plans to rehab their facility in Fort Lauderdale and Baltimore officials have made the trip to check out 'Dodgertown.'

Pitcher Troy Patton, aquired in the Tejada trade, may be out for season-ending surgery.

And, FO chit chat from the O's AAA club - the Norfolk Tides - a lot of excitment about their pitching staff this year. They feel the Os made some great trades and they will benefit. They are not as excited, however, about their offense. Last year was the Tides' first year with the Os after over 40 years with the Mets.

[cannonball 1729]

It amazes me how MacPhail got two decent prospects, Moore and Rock Cherry, by trading Steve Trachsel.

I'm always surprised that more non-contending teams don't do this - sign a cheap veteran pitcher for nothing in the offseason and then flip him at the trade deadline. Guys like Trachsel cost nothing before the season, but they're prized commodities in July, especially since so many teams are in contention at that point and so few of the teams out of contention actually have arms that they'd be willing to deal (and that are worth dealing). Every year, some team always pays way too much for 2 months of Jeff Suppan or Sidney Ponson; you'd think that young, rebuilding teams would be exploiting this tendency as best they can.

[Stuffy_McInnis]

It amazes me how MacPhail got two decent prospects, Moore and Rock Cherry, by trading Steve Trachsel.

It's not amazing because it's the Cubs. Trachsel went 1-3 with a 8.31 ERA in Chicago.

[Barbara]

Still not a lot of big time excitement coming out of Fort Lauderdale.

The Os have named Sherrill as their closer. With overall pitching lacking and no pitching depth , Trembly's plan seems to be to send the young arms (Garrett Olsen, Hayden Penn) back down to AAA to get them seasoned as he believes they will need to be called up once the season gets underway. (Brian Burres and Matt Albers were sent to Fort Myers to get additional pitching in minor league games.) The 5th starter is still up in the air as Adam Loewen continues to have shoulder soreness and did not impress in his first outing giving up 4 runs in 1 2/3 innings.

Catcher Ramon Hernandez returned to ST in much improved shape and attitude. He is hoping that his 2007 numbers were just an off year and he can return to 2006 form. Baltimore needs the veteren's experience with such a young clubhouse.

The other Hernandez, Luis, has not taken command of the starting SS position. Brandon Fahey has had as much playing time and has shown what is needed to start. But the Os are still looking for some additional infielder support.

Brian Roberts remains with the team and any trade rumors (Cubs?) are pretty much underground. He is scheduled to hit lead-off, with former Red Sox power hitter extraordinaire Kevin Millar batting 4th. (Yes, that is correct.)

[pedro1918]

From the Orioles.com homepage, check out the headlines for "Orioles Update"


• O's Leicester limits damage in loss to Mets
• Millar to bat cleanup for Orioles
• O's Minors Report: Opening in rotation
• Vote now in Movie Madness bracket
• Orioles' Loewen looks shaky in difficult loss
• O's Loewen unphased by lack of command
• O's Patton to miss season with torn labrum


Times are tough in Baltimore.

[CTballfan]

The natives on Camden Chat are highly restless.
With likely improvement in Tampa Bay and Toronto, this could be a Tiger-esque season.
MacPhail's getting a pass for a while, but there's still no fanbase belief that Angelos can restrain himself from screwing it up.
Expect many empty seats in Camden Yards except when Sox and Yankees are in town.
At least Angelos is still around as a role model for the Steinbrenners.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

The natives on Camden Chat are highly restless.

All 20 of them? But seriously, can you imagine what it would be like to have to post on Camden Chat for the last five years or so? I mean how many different ways can you say, "Angelos sucks."

Note to Red Sox hitters - Cabrera is throwing his change-up a lot these days. Quote:

Cabrera was particularly pleased with his changeup, the pitch Kranitz has encouraged him to throw more regularly.

"My last four spring trainings I've tried to work on my changeup and I never got it," he said. "Now I'm feeling like I got it and that makes the difference. I'm ready, I'm ready to roll."

Brian Roberts still with Os.

[Guinevere]

Nice article from Boswell about the new mind set, in case it was missed: Truth, Justice, and the Oriole Way

The opening theme:

The Orioles have finally wised up and given up.

"We took the cover off. There's no more spin," Baltimore Manager Dave Trembley said here this weekend. "The word came from [team president]Andy MacPhail. 'It is what it is.' So just tell the truth."

That took long enough, didn't it?

After 10 straight losing seasons, the Orioles claim that they will no longer live in a continual state of denial. Camden Yards will no longer be the home of quick fixes and overhyped expectations, followed by 30-run debacles. There will be no more pandering to selfish veterans and clubhouse lawyers, though a few are still on the premises. The future will not be now. Instead, it will be "someday," when a proper patient organization -- like the old '60s-to-'80s Orioles -- ultimately is rebuilt.

Instead of preseason predictions, bravado and self-delusion, the Orioles claim that they have faced facts. From now on, they vow to restore their shattered tradition from the bottom up, rather than from the owner's suite down. To prove their seriousness, and burn their bridges behind them as well, the Orioles have traded their biggest stars, former MVP shortstop Miguel Tejada and elegant southpaw Erik Bedard, for nine players, most of them prospects. Soon, Brian Roberts, a favorite of boss Peter Angelos, may be dealt, too, perhaps to the Cubs for what MacPhail says he craves -- prospects "in bulk."

Will it work? We'll see. No team can be entirely safe from owner Angelos, who combines impatience and poor people skills with permissiveness toward stars and an inability to make decisions in a timely manner. However, after the magnitude of last season's collapse, he seems finally to have gotten the message. Night after night, the word "rebuild" might as well have been flashed on the scoreboard. The Birds' 69-93 record alone did not do the trick. The final straw was the loss for '08 of both closer Chris Ray and setup man Danys B¿ez to major arm surgeries. After that, what choice was there?

So, the team that is often spoofed with the Jack Nicholson line, "You can't handle the truth," has finally tried to look in the mirror. Helping that process, the Orioles had the great good luck to land MacPhail as team president just before the decimated team fell apart on the field -- absorbing double-digit, late-season losses by the bushel. Ironically, those embarrassments, coupled with injuries, finally allowed the Orioles to admit what everyone else in baseball already knew.

The Birds were an utterly broken franchise, top to bottom -- one that needed to clean house, get a new attitude and turn to youth.

"We should have done this two or three years ago," one Oriole said this weekend. Or maybe five.

. . .

[boggartlaura]

MacPhail has announced that Roberts will probably start the season as an Oriole.

It turns out that Markakis does indeed have a personality. He likes to balance things on his chin and try to help our woeful SS situation.

Guthrie was announced as the opening day starter. He had a mediocre performance against the Cards yesterday, but he wasn't helped by the fielding of Jay x 2 (Payton and Gibbons).

And regarding Gibbons:

Here is all you really need to know about the Jay Gibbons situation:

There has been speculation he might get a reprieve from his 15-day suspension for admitted use of human growth hormone, and that's actually bad news for the Orioles.

http://www.baltimore...,2504424.column

[Barbara]

The Os cut OF Jay Gibbons today. .

Orioles Release Gibbons

The Orioles finalized their roster today, releasing veteran outfielder Jay Gibbons, who had been the second longest tenured member of the club.

With the move, the Orioles are responsible for paying the $11.9 million left over two years on Gibbons' contract. Utility infielder Scott Moore beat out Gibbons for the last roster spot.

"I was not going to be able to find playing time for Jay Gibbons with the roster being what it was right here and right now," said Orioles manager Dave Trembley. "He agreed with that. He got his release and we're going from there."

[boggartlaura]

Yay!

This, more than anything, makes me think that Angelos has turned over a new leaf. The old him would have never been willing to pay Gibbon's contract after cutting him.

Scott Moore will be on the OD roster instead,

[boggartlaura]

It's going to be a long season.

Markakis got a sweet assist in the top of the third, catching Bartlett at 2nd coming from 1st. Millar also had some nice defensive plays.

O's had a Roberts-Markakis double steal in the first. My guess is that given that the best two hitters by far are also two of the fastest we will be seeing a lot of those this season.

Roberts looked terrific. Markakis looked pretty good; he smoked a ball in his last AB that would have been a double on 95% of LFers that Crawford caught. Albers looked good in the innings he pitched.

Most of the O's didn't look completely hopeless at the plates, as they sometimes do, so that's good. The Hernandez twins and Jones were the exceptions. I don't think Jones took a pitch all day. Mora hit some balls hard, but got called for interference while Roberts was trying to steal.

But yeah, it's going to be a tough year, especially in the first half with all the young players and slow starters (Markakis, Huff, and to some extent Scott) on the team.

[Barbara]

Guthrie most definitely did not live up to pre-game expectations. Rays 6-2 over the Os.

Jeremy Guthrie: 9 hits and 6 runs (5 earned) in 5 1/3 innings
James Shields: 5 hits, 2 runs, 3 walks in 7 innings - no runner reached 2nd after the first.

Os
Kevin Millar: Drove in 2 runs in the first.

Rays
B.J. Upton: 2-run single in 3rd.
Eric 'Cannonball' Hinske: Homered in the 4th. (Only non-roster invitee to make the team.)
Carl Crawford, Dioner Navarro and Jason Barlett: Each drove a run in.

Rays had been 1-9 in season openers on the road. Baltimore had not lost a home opener since 2000.

[boggartlaura]

The O's have signed Alex Cintron. Yes, we're just that desperate at SS. He's at Norfolk for now.

"I don't think Nick is ever going to be a guy who flaunts who he is or what he does," Trembley said. "I don't see that about him. He's reserved, he's professional, he has respect. He is consistent and he plays the game the right way."

So for now, the face of the franchise is the same Nicky who rolls through the locker room on wheeled shoes and sneaks into the infield to take grounders. And perhaps, that will never change.

"He'll be a marquee player based on numbers, and based on performance," Roberts said. "Is he ever going to be the Cal Ripken type? I doubt it, just because I don't think that's his personality. His personality is not to go out and make commercials. I just don't think that's who he is. There's nothing wrong with that."

http://www.washingto...8033002212.html
This is a nice article on Markakis, who has the unenviable task of trying to fill Cal Ripken's shoes.

And one of the best Orioles articles I have read recently by Tom Boswell:

The Orioles are bad. But, finally, they are bad in the right way.

http://www.washingto...08033102840.htm

And OMG is OPACY empty. I wonder how many Markakis home run balls I could collect if I got tickets in the RF bleachers for all the July home games.

[boggartlaura]

No 0-21.

The O's beat the Rays 9-6. Al Reyes still sucks.

Cabrera went 4IP with 6 H 6 R 5 BB and 2Ks. He pitched better than the line implies (not that's saying much). Not that he pitched well, but he was only about 5IP 4ERs bad as opposed to 4IP 6ER bad. He wasn't getting any remotely close calls, so his pitch count rose quicker than normal and he just got worn out by the 5th. Before that, the only well hit ball was Floyd's HR. Plus, he didn't lose his composure when he loaded the bases in the third. The pitch he used to strike out Aybar was a beauty. And he didn't look like a complete klutz when he fielded a ball. So yay for positive things.

Other positives.... Huff still kills Tampa. I think everyone in the lineup contributed offensively, except Scott, who made two nice defensive plays, and sorta Millar. Jones had his first hit and RBI as an Oriole, and also looked good on defense. Between him, Scott, and Markakis, the OF defense should be a strength this year. And the BP has looked very good thus far.

Unfortunately, if our starters can't even go 5 innings the BP is going to get worn out very quickly. And we have Trachsel going tomorrow.

[Guinevere]

Smallest crowd ever at Camden Yards last night, only 10,505 saw that game. What a shame, there isn't a better place to watch baseball in the country.


ETA: Laura, here's a working link to your Boswell column: Column

Edited by Guinevere, 03 April 2008 - 08:14 AM.

[leftfieldlegacy]

Camden Yards is on my list of parks to visit this year. I thought I would ask those of you who go to CY frequently where you like to sit. I am not trying to see the sox this time around, just want the Camden Yard experience. A quick look at the seating chart tells me that the lower reserved seats look to be a good option. Close enough but still inexpensive. Any suggestions? Also, where to buy, box office, ebay, scalpers? Thanks

[Barbara]

Camden Yards is on my list of parks to visit this year. I thought I would ask those of you who go to CY frequently where you like to sit. I am not trying to see the sox this time around, just want the Camden Yard experience. A quick look at the seating chart tells me that the lower reserved seats look to be a good option. Close enough but still inexpensive. Any suggestions? Also, where to buy, box office, ebay, scalpers? Thanks

We go up twice a year. Hotels downtown are very expensive. Last year I was able to use my Marriott Rewards points and stay at the Red Sox hotel (think $300-500 a room). What a circus, but what a treat. If you fly in, or even if you drive, there are some very economical and nice hotels out by BWI. It's very easy to catch light rail directly to the park.

There is a lot to do in Downtown Baltimore around the Harbor before a night game. The aquarium, touring the Constitution. Lots for adults and children and all within a short walk of the park. And on a Red Sox weekend, nothing but red.

You can get a good buy going through the Os site, but you are going to be up. I go to the known suspects (Stub Hub, Ace, ASC and just keep searching. Of course for the Red Sox and Yankees, the ticket prices can run up to 3 times the Os price Since we usually do 2 games, we'll get one night up close and personal and the other night best available. I like the Field boxes, Sections 1-6 out by the right field foul pole, and the Eutaw St Bleachers. The only bad seats I have had were in the Terrace boxes up under the Upper Reserve and Upper Club seats. On a cold day there is no sun and the wind just rips.

[boggartlaura]

Matt Wieters' first three minor league plate appearances: walk, HR, HR

He's in A.

For now.

[crstoner97]

Hello all... I am a long-time lurker, and fan of this board.

As an Oriole fan, I am looking forward to the days when my O's rise again to contention... I believe that can happen as early as 2010.

You guys should check out www.orioleshangout.com for Orioles discussion.

It is the start of another season of baseball, and I am excited… excited because for the first time in over a decade, the Orioles organization has decided to stop using band-aids to fix broken legs.

They are committed to an actual true-rebuilding, where they stock-pile young-talent, and collectively build.

While I am not overly concerned with the on-field results this year, I am not as gloom and doom as several other members of Orioles Hangout.

I like our internal options for the rotation (Penn, Olson, Albers, Liz), the bullpen (McCrory, Mickolio, Hoey), and think our bullpen is improved as is with Sherrill, Sarfate, Albers, and Bierd.

There are a number of pieces (Mora, Millar, Huff, R.Hernandez, Payton) still existing on this 2008 team, that are obviously not part of our long-range plans, and will not be part of our next contending team.

For the most part they are past their primes, and while several could help contending teams in limited capacities, they have little place in a rebuilding effort.

Still, for now, they are Orioles, and I will root for them as such.

It is not out of the realm of possibility, that they slightly exceed existing expectations and make the current every day line-up respectable.

Like everyone else, my interests this year will be spent watching the development of the players we hope to build around. Obviously, this is not limited to just the Major League roster, but our Minor Leagues as well.


I am already anxious for the days to age, and to flip ahead in the calendar to 2010.

For the first time in a long-time, I believe in the light at the end of the tunnel.

Every move we make this year, should be with contending in 2010 in-mind.


2010 Orioles

Cabrera
Loewen
Penn
Patton
Guthrie

Ray
Liz
Albers
Olson
Sherrill
McCrory
Mickolio


Additional possibilities Tillman, Spoone, Arrieta, Bascom, Erbe, Beato, Butler, Heranandez
Other bullpen possibilities - Hoey, FCabrera, Beird, Sarfate, Buress, Aquino

First Round Picks in 2008, and 2009

Internal:

Roberts 2nd
Jones CF
Markakis RF
Scott DH
Reimold LF
Weiters C
Rowell 3rd
Snyder 1st
TBD SS

Moore, Quiroz, ?, ?


With sign of Teixeira

Roberts 2nd
Jones CF
Markakis RF
Teixeira 1st
Scott DH
Reimold LF
Weiters C
Rowell 3rd
TBD SS


We are not going to hit on everyone… On the otherside, we are beginning to establish the volume of depth necessary to overcome injuries, and under-performance.

When you look at our projected rotation, and bullpen - there are a lot of quality arms on the outside looking in.

This will allow us to address other areas of need.

I can not wait until the lineups mentioned above, is our existing team.

Enjoy the season...

Cheers,
Chris

[crstoner97]

BTW, here are my O's predictions for the 2008 season as posted on Orioles Hangout 3/28...


1) The O's won 69 games last year with Bedard, and Tejada… I say they go 75-87 without them.

2) Luis Hernandez starts the season at SS, but is replaced by late June.

3) Loewen has never pitched more than 142IP in a professional season.. I think he gives 175IP, brings his walk-ratio under 5, and gives you 150 k's…

4) Cabrera continues to show poor control, and athleticism/defense - but does show a return of his velocity, movement, and a much needed increase in maturity. He features his change-up enough to keep hitters off-balance, gives another 200IP, a K ratio closer to 1 per IP, 15 wins, and knocks off .75 from his 2007 ERA.

5) Hoey, McCrory, & Mickolio all spend time in the Major League pen.

6) If Traschel keeps his ERA under 6, he stays in the rotation through the All-Star break. If it is the end of May, and his ERA is above 6, the O's bring up one of Penn/Olson/Liz to replace.

7) Millar is traded during the season. His contract is manageable, he has a good locker-room reputation, and he can fill a roll.

8) The O's attempt to shop Huff, but between his 1st half struggles and his contract, there is little interest. With the trade of Millar, Scott is moved to DH, Huff to 1st, and Reimold takes over in LF.

9) A starting catcher for a contender will be injured, leading to interest in Ramon Hernandez. The field staff (Trembley) will be against trading him, but MacPhail will make the move if he is comfortable with the offer coming-back.

10) Sherrill, Walker, and Bradford will not be traded.

11) Ray goes to the minors in late July for rehab, and rejoins the O's by the 2nd week of August.

12) Krantiz makes a positive impact with Albers, who gives a very solid 160IP as the 5th starter.

13) Markakis is signed in-season to a long-term extension.

14) Jones struggles for the first few months, but is kept in the line-up. As the weather warms, so does his bat. He does his best hitting, when he is moved into the 2hole, getting better pitches to hit in-front of Markakis.

15) Roberts is still an Oriole, when the O's play the Cubs in Chicago at the end of June.

16) Trading deadline comes, and it is still highly debated if Roberts will stay or go.

17) Only one All-Star, order of likely-hood: Roberts 40%, Markakis 35%, Sherrill 10%, Loewen 5%, Cabrera 5%, Guthrie 5%

18) Baseball world starts to take notice of our Minor League arms - Penn, Olson, Liz, Tillman, Erbe, Beato, Spoone, Arrieta, Bascom, Butler, Hernandez

19) We take the best available positional prospect in the draft.

20) Wieters glove will prove to be slightly ahead of his bat. He will get his feet wet in Frederick, working with some of the talented young-arms. Will have early season struggles as he continues to make transition to a wooden bat….. By the end of May, his talent will have taken over, and he will have adjusted. By July will be in Bowie, where he will continue to hit…. If Ramon has been traded in-season, will make Major league debut in September…. If Minor League teams are in contention for post-season, he will stay there longer. He ends the 2008 season, as the favorite to be the 2009 starter.

21) Mora has a bit of a bounce back year… no real HR power, but a higher on-base, and more doubles/line drives. At some point is injured, and limited to roughly 120 games. Does not waive his NTC.

22) O's make decision to eat Gibbons salary, with the last straw being his lack of defense the other day. Field staff sees no position for him…. Wants to keep Moore.

23) Moore proves to be a valuable roster addition, with his versatility. Not playing everyday effects his bat though…. When Mora is injured, and he grabs the 3rd base job, his numbers increase with regular playing time.

24) Payton is used more often than most 4th OF's, but becomes a malcontent when he does not start a few days in a row. The O's grow tired of his act, and pay enough on his contract to push him out the door.

25) Rowell, and Snyder begin to both really emerge… Rowell's defense at 3rd becomes less of a question, as he matures, and gets more and more repetitions.

26) Dodgers make official their plans to train in Arizona, the O's make official their plans to take over Vero.

27) This team plays hard, and fundamentally sound under Trembley all-season. For the first time in years, they have a better 2nd-half than 1st.

28) Sarfate has major control issues, but also provides a much needed power-arm for the pen. Avgs a K per IP. Aquino throws hard, but with little movement… former closer disappoints, and is replaced internally. Bierd is not a hidden Rule V, and is used fairly frequently. Buress struggles out of the pen, as he is far more comfortable as a starter. He might lack pure stuff to get through a line-up for the 3rd time, but he handles that better, vs pitching in successive days.

29) Atlanta exceeds predictions, and contends with NY, and Philly. Tex is offered an extension during the year, which is hard to turn down… played college there, wife is from there, finds himself on a good team… but ultimately does decide to test the market. While avoiding tampering charges, the O's make it known they will over-spend to bring the prodigal son home, with a 8year $160M offer.

30) Guthrie starts off 2008, with a solid effort… his 2008 success or failure is shown within his first 5-7 starts…. Does he have his early 2007 velocity, and control? Does have success early enough to build/maintain his fragile confidence? I believe he does, and that he finds middle-ground between his 2007 highs, and lows.

31) With the building of the Dominican facility, and the announcement of our Asian scouting, the O's consider making a splash, ie posting for Darvish, or a young Dominican.





Cabrera
Loewen
Guthrie
Trachsel
Albers

Sherill
Walker
Bradford
Aquino
Sarfate
Bierd
Burres

Roberts 2nd
Mora 3rd
Markakis RF
Millar 1st
Scott LF
Huff DH
Hernandez C
Jones CF
Hernandez L SS

Payton, Moore, Fahey, Quiroz

[cannonball 1729]

Camden Yards is on my list of parks to visit this year. I thought I would ask those of you who go to CY frequently where you like to sit. I am not trying to see the sox this time around, just want the Camden Yard experience. A quick look at the seating chart tells me that the lower reserved seats look to be a good option. Close enough but still inexpensive. Any suggestions? Also, where to buy, box office, ebay, scalpers? Thanks

I'm not a big fan of the lower reserves unless you're in the front row or way out in right field because the low roof means you lose sight of the ball anytime it goes up above, say, ten feet off the ground. If you're trying to go budget, either go for the LF lower box, the Eutaw Street bleachers, or get the third deck seats near home plate (Upper Box or Upper Reserve, both are good).

Edited by cannonball 1729, 05 April 2008 - 04:53 PM.

[Orange Julia]

I just watched the last hour or so of the Os/Mariners game, and CY was EMPTY. Such a shame. The hotdogs are great.

and, I guess Bedard won't be pitching tomorrow after all.

[IpswichSox]

I'm not a big fan of the lower reserves unless you're in the front row or way out in right field because the low roof means you lose sight of the ball anytime it goes up above, say, ten feet off the ground. If you're trying to go budget, either go for the LF lower box, the Eutaw Street bleachers, or get the third deck seats near home plate (Upper Box or Upper Reserve, both are good).

With the exception of games against Boston and New York, good tickets this year should be plentiful. There's no reason to settle for bleachers. The face value of the field box tickets are only $50, and if they're sold I would bet you could get good field box seats for not much more than face on Stub Hub or Ace.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

O's IN FIRST PLACE!!!00!!!

But seriously, for all of those in the area, should get to Frederick while the getting is good. Lots of talent - and future big league players - on this team.

Amazing how much difficulty Rowell has in staying healthy.

[Kitchkinet]

I am honestly shocked by how well the O's are doing so far. The Rays-O's series may actually mean something this year.

[boggartlaura]

The starting pitching has been completely mediocre. Guthrie and Trachsel couldn't finish the 6th, while Loewen and Cabrera didn't even make it through 5. None of them have pitched horribly, but if the starters can't pitch more innings, the BP is going to get burned out very quickly

The bullpen has looked very good, as has the offense. What I like about the offensive production in the past three games is that it has been really a whole team effort, not just one or two players being hot. The exceptions have been the AA SS we have and Markakis, although Markakis isn't doing that poorly. One big difference I noticed is that other than opening day, the entire team is being much more patient. Last season it was usually just Markakis, Millar, and Roberts. They're now top 5 in MLB in BB/game.

And for a fun statistical oddity, the Hernandez twins both have higher averages than OBP.

The other thing to note is that they're being very aggressive on the basepaths. The O's have 7 steals which is more per game than any other team. The 3rd base coach has also been very aggressive waving people home, which has sometimes worked and sometimes not. The worse a team is at hitting, the more sense it makes for them to be aggressive, so I think that this is a good thing.

[crstoner97]

Guthrie with a strong effort today... Seattle pulls King Felix to start the 9th.. O's come back from down 2-0, with 3 runs to win.

Split two vs Tampa, have won the first three vs Seattle...

[boggartlaura]

Guthrie picthed really well. He had thrown 50 pitches after two innings but managed to finish seven with only 101 total. The big hits he gave up weren't even bad pitches; they were decent pitches that the Mariners hit well. But it's the best start by an Oriole by far, and I'll take 2 R, 7 IP every time. Too bad Guthrie will be 0-2 after one okay start and one great start.

Unfortunately, like most of last season when Guthrie was on the mound, the Orioles couldn't do anything on offense. The only real bright spot of the day was Luke Scott with another mulit-hit game. I was worried he would have some trouble adjusting to the AL, but it doesn't look like. Everyone else looked pretty bad, although to be fair Felix Hernandez's great game had a lot to do with that. He had only thrown 97 pitches through 8 innings, and was absolutely dominating. I hope he stays far away from the AL East.

The O's bullpen once again looked very good.



So yeah, I had this already written before the bottom of the 9th. I think I'm still in shock. This is a game that we would never have won last season. Hernandez picked an excellent time to get his first hit.

I'm starting to think that the O's might not be that bad. And by not so bad, I mean they might win 75 instead of 65 or even 60. It's not the record so much as the way they're playing. They've already had two comebacks after the 7th inning. Trembley's making the right moves. The hitting and the pitching are both solid. And the team is playing like a team. It's quite nice.

I'll be enjoying the best record in the AL for right now.

[sweet sox]

Only 10,00 odd showed up at Camden Yards last night....that is truly awful, especially considering their great start to the season.

Can they keep it up? No chance, I expect them to hit the buffers real soon.

[crstoner97]

Only 10,00 odd showed up at Camden Yards last night....that is truly awful, especially considering their great start to the season.

Can they keep it up? No chance, I expect them to hit the buffers real soon.

Well... it was horrible... but to be fair it was also a 3pm start on a cool, wet day in Baltimore...

I used to work for the O's in their Fan & Ticket Services Department... it was not hyperbole when they stated that 20-25% of their Season Ticket base was from the DC , and Northern VA suburbs.

Luckily, the MASN TV deal was signed which will allow the O's to financially compete with Boston, and NY (not to mention Tampa, and Toronto).

[Barbara]

Well... it was horrible... but to be fair it was also a 3pm start on a cool, wet day in Baltimore...

I used to work for the O's in their Fan & Ticket Services Department... it was not hyperbole when they stated that 20-25% of their Season Ticket base was from the DC , and Northern VA suburbs.

Luckily, the MASN TV deal was signed which will allow the O's to financially compete with Boston, and NY (not to mention Tampa, and Toronto).

I would think that now close to 20% is now with the Nats? Although when I am at Os games, there always seem to be folks from DC/NoVA who kept their Os allegiance.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Break up the Os!

Interesting - Os leading the league in BAA (.217) though they are 11th out of 14 in K/9 (5.43).

However, despite people saying that the Os had a AAAA lineup, they are second in the league in runs scored (63) and second in OPS (.835).

Anyone want to put a Jimmy Fund bet that they don't finish the league in the top 5 in OPS or runs scored?