25 replies to this topic

[Yaz4Ever]

I know it's not a sport, but scouting does promote (or at least it's supposed to promote) athletics. Plus, I figured it was close enough to coaching in terms of us as adults working with kids that it fit in this forum. If not, please move it.

At the final Pack meeting of last year (May, '07), I was asked to move up from assistant den leader to assistant cubmaster along with another assistant den leader. Since that time, I've held those duties as well as running the Pinewood Derby and the Popcorn fundraising responsibilities (our only fundraiser, unlike many other Packs). The current cubmaster has made it clear that he'd like to step down after this year to spend time with his son's den as they finish up Webelos II. I'm really not sure if they'll want me to step up as cubmaster or the other leader. I'm fine either way, as she and I have a great working relationship and both want what's best for the boys.

Anyhow, the problem I have with the Pack right now is that I don't feel we're doing enough "fun" stuff with the boys. Sure, we have a second-rate Mr. Wizard-type guy come in to play with dry ice and stuff and last year we had a one-legged Pirate Magician perform (he was actually very good), but we only camp twice per year (one fall, one spring) and we do very little else. Our 75-boy Pack generated $24,000 in popcorn sales this year, resulting in over $7,000 in Pack commissions. From that, scout commissions (they earn money to spend on scout-related items depending on how much they sell), Pinewood Derby cars, and funds for other items are immediately set aside. This should still leave us with close to $5,000. I don't think we should carry much over from year-to-year, just enough for a rainy-day fund. Considering that we don't have any big-ticket purchases planned, the rest, in my opinion, should be spent on activities for the boys. This serves a two-fold process - one, they will undoubtedly have more fun with scouting and choose to stay with our Pack (and move on to Boy Scouts) and two, they will tell their friends how much fun they're having and we'll generate more scouts from this form of recruiting than any other form I can think of.

My initial question for other cubmasters/den leaders is this:

What would you spend the money on if you had $4,000-5,000 to spend and 75 boys in the Pack? Seeing that most of it will be spent with summer activities, we'll be lucky to have more than 35-40 boys at any of the events, but hopefully each boy will be able to participate in at least one of them.

My ideas are as follows:

Zipline park - http://www.screamtimezipline.com/ - it's $89/person, but I'm sure group rates will drop that significantly
White water rafting (classes I-III considering the age group of 7-11) - several companies from which to choose but one in particular looked better to me than the rest (Nantahala Raft'N Rail® Excursions - http://www.wildwaterrafting.com/nanraftrail.html)
Battleships in Virginia
Jamestown/Williamsburg trip(s)
NC Zoo
Lazy5 Ranch - went with my son's 1st grade class as a field trip and the kids LOVED it - http://www.lazy5ranch.com/
BounceU - large indoor inflatible facility with two rooms totaling 9 large inflatibles. We just booked this for my son's birthday, so I know it's about $300 for 25 kids with pizza and softdrinks for about 2 hours. Ideally, I'd ask for a "scout discount" considering the number of boys involved and the number of parties it could generate for them in future sales. Obviously, I'd break this down to rank - Tigers one day, Wolves another, etc unless we had really small groups (10-12 each) that could be combined easily. - http://www.bounceu.c...sboro/index.htm

I don't expect most of you to be familiar with any/all of these places, but the idea of a zoo trip, whitewater rafting, etc. is what I'm pitching to you. Are these things you would do/have done with your scouts? What else would you recommend that may be available in my area (just outside of Greensboro, NC) that I might not be thinking of?

We're supposed to do at least 3 things with the boys over the course of the summer. I don't know of any rules that would prohibit us from doing more.

Typically, we've done Greensboro Grasshopper Scout Night games (usually a game in July) and a night at the Skateland roller skating rink - whee! Not that there's anything wrong with these, I would rather we did things that a family might not typically do anyhow.

My plan is to suggest at our next leadership meeting that we choose 5-6 activities (from my list as well as anything anyone else comes up with) and pledge $500-$1000 toward each one. If a certain activity costs $20 and we had 25 boys sign up, they'd all be paid in full (at $500). If we had 50 boys sign up for that same activity and pledged $500, it would cost each boy $10. For more expensive itineraries (or if we reduce the number of activities or have more money to work with than I'm currently thinking) we could go to $1,000.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[stiffysboss]

Some of the things our younger son enjoyed as a cub scout: sleeping overnight in the Museum of Science (Boston), sleeping overnight on the USS Massachusetts, berthed in New Bedford, sleeping overnight at a local campsite. Any time they could manage an overnight, it was an instant hit. I've asked him to send some more suggestions, and I'll forward them.

[drleather2001]

Some of the things our younger son enjoyed as a cub scout: sleeping overnight in the Museum of Science (Boston), sleeping overnight on the USS Massachusetts, berthed in New Bedford, sleeping overnight at a local campsite. Any time they could manage an overnight, it was an instant hit. I've asked him to send some more suggestions, and I'll forward them.

I did the sleepover in the MoS twice, and my God was it fun.

Shit, I'd do it again today if I could.

Other things to do: USS Constitution, going to Mystic Seaport, Freedom Trail, Pirate's Legend Trail in Lynn, MA.

[TimNJsoxfan]

Some of the things my son's pack has done.

- Sleepover on the USS NJ
- Sleepover at the local YMCA (using all the facilities)
- Planetarium trip
- Campouts

[Yaz4Ever]

I agree that sleeping over somewhere is almost always a huge hit with the boys. The key is finding the right places. I've again passed on the ideas I mentioned in the first post to the cubmaster and my fellow assistant as well as the Pack Chair. Hopefully, something good will come from this.

Tim - Hadn't thought about the Y, but we have a couple of nice ones in the area. I'll have to look into those.

Any other ideas will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Anyone here familiar with the Nauticus in Virginia? They have a scout program that looks pretty cool - http://www.nauticus....tovernight.html

Edited by Yaz4Ever, 19 February 2008 - 01:09 PM.

[JodyReedFan]

As an Eagle scout, and a recently involved adult leader(moved away from the area, currently not involved w/ a new troop), I think camping trips for cub scouts/webelos can work out for a number of reasons. Firstly, it gives the kids an idea of what to look forward to as boy scouts. I think the biggest problem for retaining interest is the vast difference in activities between cub scouts and boy scouts. I.E., A lot of kids are real disappointed when they learn boy scouts don't do things like pinewood derbies nearly as much as cub scouts.

The right kind of camping for kids is the biggest thing, I think. This is new england based, but for example, a hike into the White Mountains in the winter, sleeping in tents, and cooking their own food on self-made fires may not be the best idea. Taking a group of cub scouts to Camp Nihan, where they can sleep in a cabin, let the adults cook, and still hear the highway while being in the wilderness is a great opportunity. Also, this camp serves as a day camp for the Boston area scout council in the summer so some kids might know the area and love the idea of camping there.

Camp Carpenter is a NH BSA council run camp, but allows troop use when the camp isn't being used for summer camp. It's a small camp, and there's a nice 1-2 mile hike around the lake.


This was a little off the mark with regard to spending money, but aside from camping. council sponsored sporting events can be a good time as well.

[Yaz4Ever]

Jody, I agree with you regarding the merits of camping and keeping in mind what works for Boy Scouts doesn't necessarily translate to Cub Scouts (and vice-versa). As for the "spending money" part of your post, don't worry about that - trust me, I'd rather take that money and put it into other things if I could convince the others that more camping trips are in order

One thing I have already spent $935 of our popcorn money on is expanding our Pinewood Derby track from two lanes to four and, seeing that we'd need a larger timer as a result, a new and improved timer that plugs directly into my laptop. I wouldn't mind picking up a nice little projector as well and do away completely with the blackboard we currently use, but I'd rather see those funds used on the aforementioned activities this year and possibly buy a projector next year.

[RedSoxTarheel38]

Hey Yaz. I grew up about an hour away from the Nantahala and went many times with my Cub/Boy Scout Pack/Troop. I can honestly say that it is a great experience that every Scout in NC should experience. The other ideas were great, but Nantahala is easily the most "scout-like" experience. It gives a great opportunity to teach scouts about safety, dealing with the outdoors, and is just overall a fun time.

[Oecow]

I agree that sleeping over somewhere is almost always a huge hit with the boys. The key is finding the right places. I've again passed on the ideas I mentioned in the first post to the cubmaster and my fellow assistant as well as the Pack Chair. Hopefully, something good will come from this.

Tim - Hadn't thought about the Y, but we have a couple of nice ones in the area. I'll have to look into those.

Any other ideas will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Anyone here familiar with the Nauticus in Virginia? They have a scout program that looks pretty cool - http://www.nauticus....tovernight.html

Nauticus is a very cool place for kids. They have a bunch of interactive displays and programs. It is also cool for the history buff adults/science nerds in the group. The USS Wisconsin is parked right next door.

[Jinhocho]

I did the sleepover in the MoS twice, and my God was it fun.

Shit, I'd do it again today if I could.

Other things to do: USS Constitution, going to Mystic Seaport, Freedom Trail, Pirate's Legend Trail in Lynn, MA.

Same - I loved camping at the MoS. I also slept on the battleship. Really cool experiences.

I do not have much experience with Cub Scouts outside of having been one. I have been involved in the Boy Scouts for a number of years as a scout and then off and on as an assistant scoutmaster. Some of those things you listed sounded a little big for boys at that age - whitewater rafting especially.

I know up in the Greensboro area they have the Moravian Village and fort. Its in my hiking in NC book. I havent been, but it sounds like a pretty cool place even if it is local for the boys. You could check with the people who run it and see about getting permission to camp there for the weekend.

I know Jordan Lake has a number of camping spots that are for car camping or short hikes in. The terrain there is flat, if you go when its warmer there is good swimming, and some fairly easy trails to hike.

The only other things I can think of with my limited knowledge of NC would be something similar to Jordan Lake - maybe the Uhwarrie Mountains? Pretty low, good views, feel like bigger mountains.

I do not know how your troop is fixed for gear, but you could easily hold a couple additional camping trips and buy a lot of pack gear. Does your pack have its own tents, stoves, cookware, and bulk gear for camping?

Another thing we did in scouts - a little older but who knows - is go shooting at our local gun club. We were allowed to go in and shoot 22's - rifles and handguns - for a day after a seminar on gun safety, etc etc. We got to watch a skeet shooting competition, and then had a big ole lunch there. It was quite a day.

Brainstorming here you could take em to a Durham Bulls game and see about getting a tour of the facility and maybe a meet and greet with some players? I am sure they would put the pack up on the monitors there and try to make it special for you guys.

Also, I saw a suv with markings from this place http://www.campflintlock.com/ - Camp Flintlock which is in NC. I do not know much about it but the website has lots of details. Seems like it would be a good experience along the lines of sleeping at the MoS or at Battleship Cove.

[Yaz4Ever]

We held our first annual Pushcar Event last night. One dad stepped up and built all three cars charging us only for the materials. It was followed by an ice cream party in which the boys ate out of foil-lined Raingutter Regatta gutters built by another dad.

http://picasaweb.goo...103PushcarEvent

[jthursto]

You need to get them down to Fayetteville and Fort Bragg to tour the museums (Airborne and Special Operations Museum off-post, 82d and JFK Special Warfare on-post). If you plan for it and get lucky, you might be able to get them out to the drop zone to see a parachute jump. They're always impressive and the kids will be slack-jawed. It's only couple of hours away, wouldn't cost too much, and with a pack-ful of southern boys you are guaranteed that the trip would be a huge hit.

Edited by jthursto, 29 May 2008 - 11:10 AM.

[Reardons Beard]

One thing I would really harp on is teamwork and unity, from a den to the entire pack. Focus on any activities you can that require group efforts.

I don't have any ideas off the top of my head, but team sports might be one route.

Also, it's probably not a big thing, but as the sole Protestant kid in a pack of Catholics and someone who didn't know anyone else, make sure everyone gets involved and there's respect across the board.

[Seven Costanza]

As someone who went all the way through from Tiger to Eagle, the thing I would stress the most is fun. Cub Scouts is by and large about fun- the important thing, IMO, is to not 'burn out' kids from scouting. If all a child in Cub Scouts equates scouting with is learning and other stuff they would rather not do, then in all likelihood that child will not continue on to Boy Scouts. A good balance is required- teaching skills such as fair play, citizenship and rudimentary outdoor skills, puctuated with a lot of fun stuff to do. The pinewood derby was always a lot of fun for me, as well as overnights on the USS Massachussetts and New Britian Red Sox games (before the twins took over).

My suggestion would be perhaps a day/overnight at williamsburg/jamestown (educational component) followed by some time at Busch Gardens.

As for the camping twice a year thing- I wouldn't press that too hard. The kind of camping I did with the Cub Scouts was extremely different than the kind of camping I did with the Boy Scouts. I think twice a year is good- gives the kids something to look forward to when they get to the big leagues.

Speaking of camping- any Philmont vets here?

[bsj]

My lasting memory of cub scouts was when I finished my whole activity book between one awards ceremony to the next, and only got promoted from cub to wolf...I should have been bumped to weblo or at least bear.

I was pissed.

[brs3]

As someone who went all the way through from Tiger to Eagle, the thing I would stress the most is fun. Cub Scouts is by and large about fun- the important thing, IMO, is to not 'burn out' kids from scouting. If all a child in Cub Scouts equates scouting with is learning and other stuff they would rather not do, then in all likelihood that child will not continue on to Boy Scouts. A good balance is required- teaching skills such as fair play, citizenship and rudimentary outdoor skills, puctuated with a lot of fun stuff to do. The pinewood derby was always a lot of fun for me, as well as overnights on the USS Massachussetts and New Britian Red Sox games (before the twins took over).

My suggestion would be perhaps a day/overnight at williamsburg/jamestown (educational component) followed by some time at Busch Gardens.

As for the camping twice a year thing- I wouldn't press that too hard. The kind of camping I did with the Cub Scouts was extremely different than the kind of camping I did with the Boy Scouts. I think twice a year is good- gives the kids something to look forward to when they get to the big leagues.

Speaking of camping- any Philmont vets here?

I have a question for you, and any folks w/ scouting background. How do you see troops retaining kids when they cross over from webelos to boy scouts? I was active w/ my troop until I moved away, and from my time as a scout(once an Eagle always an Eagle!) until my time as a leader, it always seems like half, or even 75 percent of kids who cross over drop scouts within a year or 2. I've determined it's because unless the troop is young as a whole, the activities of cubs and boy scouts are really different and kids lose interest in boy scout-related activities. Basically, knots are lame and pinewood derbies are awesome. Whereas an older troop or a mix of ages are beyond pinewood derbies and museum visits. As a leader, I remember a number of kids lamenting the big differences between the two. Is it something only I'm seeing in my troop, or would you agree it's a wider spectrum?

[Yaz4Ever]

Anyone familiar with PackMaster® or any other management software designed specifically for scouting? The woman who organizes all of the rank and awards for our Pack has requested that we purchase a program to help her with the tracking. She wasn't at the last leadership meeting, so she wasn't able to help us in our discussion about the potential purchase. I've sought advice from the Google and I've come up with PackMaster® as well as a few other programs. Thought I'd inquire here before making any purchases based solely on reviews from other people I couldn't pick out of a crowd

[brs3]

Anyone familiar with PackMaster® or any other management software designed specifically for scouting? The woman who organizes all of the rank and awards for our Pack has requested that we purchase a program to help her with the tracking. She wasn't at the last leadership meeting, so she wasn't able to help us in our discussion about the potential purchase. I've sought advice from the Google and I've come up with PackMaster® as well as a few other programs. Thought I'd inquire here before making any purchases based solely on reviews from other people I couldn't pick out of a crowd

What does she use now? I'm petty sure that the Boston Minuteman Council has free software available to input ranks and awards.

Even with a program, I'd recommend physical records too. The last thing you need is some kid having a tough time at the end of the trail to eagle because of record keeping! It's the toughest thing for some, when they're 17, wrapping up loose ends and needing to find stuff from when they were 11!

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Webelo badge question:

Any idea if badges such as Geology can be earned/awarded for work done entirely in a school's curriculum?

[JohntheBaptist]

Yeah, I'm 28, single, and I have no idea why I clicked on this thread (no offense). I'm glad I did though- sleeping over at the Norwalk Maritime Aquarium was one of the coolest nights of my life to that point- it was indescribably fun. I remember waking up at like 2AM and the whole room was this neon blue reflecting in from the massive shark tank they had us at. Definitely find a way to do that. It gets you excited to absorb the things around you at that age, I think.

I also remember any and all Battleships completely blowing our minds too.

Edited by JohntheBaptist, 09 March 2010 - 11:24 AM.

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

We did Norwalk 3-4 years ago, and children and adults alike had a blast. They really made it special for the boys, with behind the scenes tours and games into the night. As opposed to Liberty Science Center, which closed off areas, was short-staffed, and did nothing out of the ordinary; it left a bad taste in many families mouths.

But with most indoor overnights costing well in excess of $250 for a family of four, (we planned for the Camden Aquarium and got only like three signups) our pack, in concert with new leadership at the top, switched to outdoor camping. We now take a pack-wide Sept. tent weekend, a January cabin weekend, a June tent weekend, and an August beach/tent weekend; in addition, the Webelos do a cabin weekend with the BSA troop in December, and Weboree in April. Whereas in the past it was only the one indoor overnight per year.

And our BSA troop is heading up to the Cove this weekend....

[Seven Costanza]

Webelo badge question:

Any idea if badges such as Geology can be earned/awarded for work done entirely in a school's curriculum?

Don't quote me on any of this as it has been a while, but school work should count. There should be some sort of process where you can get a teacher to sign off on the requirements.

I remember as a younger Boy Scout, we would have older scouts sign our Tenderfoot, Second Class requirements, etc. I did this as well when I was an older scout. I doubt your pack/district/council leadership will care who signs off on the requirements, as long as it's some sort of relatively qualified adult.

A few years ago I signed off on several Skiing merit badge requirements while I was working as an instructor. At the time I wasn't affiliated with the scouts in any way, other than being an Eagle Scout. One of the kids I taught was working on his badge and his folks wanted me to sign off on it- I had them square it away with his troop leadership and everything was cool.

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Don't quote me on any of this as it has been a while, but school work should count. There should be some sort of process where you can get a teacher to sign off on the requirements.

Spoke with a few DEs at a training day recently. They would begrudgingly accept the work being done in school toward W badges, but absolutely would require the Webelo leader to review all the required knowledge/activities with the boys to make sure that they really learned it.


Next problem, which I'm again hesitant to make waves over, is that the same W leader says most of her boys have "issues" (which I can testify to with 100% certainty) which preclude them from going away camping to meet the AoL requirements, or meeting any of the more difficult W requriements. So she's organizing a backyard campout instead of attending Weboree or some other W only campout, which the CM and I are vehemently opposed to as meeting AoL requirements. I've looked high and low, and can't find a single written word about softening the AoL requirements for boys with emotional (or other) issues.

(Back story: For years in our Pack, not every W-2 received the arrow of light; only those who earned it, received it. Four years ago, our then W-2 leader was in tears at the ceremony when she announced that she was unable to award the AoL to a W-2 with Downs/chromosomal issues because he just couldn't meet the requirements. Then last year, the W-2 leaders awarded every boy the AoL, and some of those awarded were very questionable. Same thing this year: all W2s got the AoL, with a few recipients being questionable. This will almost certainly happen again next year, but that group will be the most undeserving group ever. The boys don't care, their parents don't care, and the W leaders don't care. Our CM says he will refuse to sign-off on their AoLs and feels he has no place at any ceremony awarding them the AoL. He's not being mean or harsh, he just realizes that none of the boys will come even close to truly earning or deserving the award, and awarding it to them would just cheapen the award for those who have truly earned it. However, our Comm. is extremely compassionate while having incredibly low standards, so our CM will in all likelihood be shouted down, and the boys will all get their AoL.)

[MetSox1]

Was in one of the many Troop 1's in my MA days, split both my cub and boy scout days between MA/NJ. Did the science museum, the battleship, did Philmont, and went from tiger to eagle. Really glad I found this thread. Ended up at a Phillies game a couple weeks ago next to a guy taking his son for his 7th bday, wearing a local pack leader shirt, and it brought back a lot of history.

Cubs should be all about fun and working together, Boys should be learning, teaching, and IMO most of all about leadership. Love the Battleship idea. Also, as an alternative to whitewater rafting, is there any stretch of river that you could do tubing on, similar to this that I did at summer camp up in PA? http://www.delawarerivertubing.com/

When I was in boyscouts we had lockins every once in a while after the weekly meeting. Everybody brought in TV's and video game consols, we had pizza and just had a fun night. That's minimal cost if you already have the space, although admittedly little quantitative gains for the kids as well.

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

BSA has scanned and uploaded the original pamphlets for the four historical merit badges that they resurrected for the centennial:

http://meritbadge.or...adge_Worksheets

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Got an email from Campmor recently, and one of their sale items is the Kelty Yukon Youth 2900 external frame pack for $69:

http://www.campmor.c...00&cm_ven=EMAIL

This is THE recommended pack for younger scouts who are of average or above-average height, but are have a slim/trim build. Lowest I've ever seen it was $89, and that was if you could find it in stock.