[Trautwein's Degree]

Clemente 38 and sparked this thread in the ticket forum. By all accounts, it has never been more difficult to get Red Sox tickets.

We know MLB has a deal with StubHub but I can't find details about this anywhere and likely with good reason. Presumably, in the relationship, StubHub gets tickets and teams get money. Which presumably results in fewer tickets at face value for fans.

Are we approaching the point where Red Sox tickets are too costly and too difficult to obtain that it in some way diminishes or fundamentally alters the fan experience?

This post has been edited by Trautwein's Degree: 25 January 2008 - 08:40 PM

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Trautwein, on Jan 25 2008, 08:39 PM, said:

Are we approaching the point where Red Sox tickets are too costly and too difficult to obtain that it in some way diminishes or fundamentally alters the fan experience?

Ask us in ~24 hours.

Between this year's Sox Pack experiences and the reported meager pickings available at the presale, the quality of tix tomorrow is gonna tell us something.......

[Trautwein's Degree]

What has always bothered me is that Monster tickets are available to almost any regular season game on StubHub. To my knowledge, there are no Monster season tickets and none have yet to go on sale to the general public. Yet, if you want to put down a $1000 plus dollars for a monster seat to a Rangers game in April, you can do it on StubHub.

[biollante]

The Thrill is Gone...It is all about the money...unless you have a connection...you have to watch t.v.....Maybe it is all over now.

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Incidentally, if you google Red Sox Tickets, the first hit is Stubhub...

One of the dynamics to this is the hypocrisy involved whereby Ebay owns Stubhub, yet the Boston Red Sox organization patrols Ebay to identify and cancel traceable tickets being sold there, all the while we know well about the scalper situation at the ballpark.

Time to face reality, the Fenway experience that most of us remember fondly is pretty much gone forever. And the Fenway experience at all is likely out of reach for most. Blame the team's success, blame the Dentist, blame greedy people in and out of the organization, blame ticket brokers and Stubhub and Ebay, blame Saddam Hussein, whatever, it sucks, but it is what it is.

[Koufax]

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa, on Jan 26 2008, 12:05 AM, said:

Incidentally, if you google Red Sox Tickets, the first hit is Stubhub...

One of the dynamics to this is the hypocrisy involved whereby Ebay owns Stubhub, yet the Boston Red Sox organization patrols Ebay to identify and cancel traceable tickets being sold there, all the while we know well about the scalper situation at the ballpark.

Time to face reality, the Fenway experience that most of us remember fondly is pretty much gone forever. And the Fenway experience at all is likely out of reach for most. Blame the team's success, blame the Dentist, blame greedy people in and out of the organization, blame ticket brokers and Stubhub and Ebay, blame Saddam Hussein, whatever, it sucks, but it is what it is.

You guys probably won't feel sorry for me about this, but here is my MLB/Stubhub screed.

I am a season ticket holder. Have been for many years, and by now my seats are pretty good. So last year, for the first time, I am told not only will I not get my usual seats for the playoffs, but the seats that I am offered are in Cambridge someplace. The Red Sox say, "MLB grabbed the seats. Nothing we can do." So I go to a game, walk over to my usual seats, and ask the people sitting in them how they got them. "Stubhub", I am told. So MLB is now kicking out season ticket holders and scalping their tickets. Just how distasteful is that? How does that build a fan base? I am annoyed beyond belief.

[CaptainLaddie]

That, or whoever did have those tickets (whether they won them in a lottery or were someone with even better season tix than you) sold them off on StubHub.

I seriously doubt MLB needs the 3k or 4k from a single ticket sold.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

CaptainLaddie, on Jan 26 2008, 05:50 AM, said:

I seriously doubt MLB needs the 3k or 4k from a single ticket sold.

You don't think they need the money? Do the math. The Sox played 8 home games in the playoffs last season. Suppose they did this with 1,000 tickets (you don't think they're singling out Koufax, do you?).

1,000 tickets x $3,000 x 8 games = $24 million.

There's probably a lot of worse things Bud Selig would do for $24 million, especially when he's probably doing the same thing at Yankee Stadium and elsewhere too.

This post has been edited by Kevin Mortons Ghost: 26 January 2008 - 08:07 AM

[NortheasternPJ]

Quote

There's probably a lot of worse things Bud Selig would do for $24 million, especially when he's probably doing the same thing at Yankee Stadium and elsewhere too.

I would imagine MLB is far more concerned with pleasing corporate sponsors than scalping tickets on StubHub. With a team like the Red Sox, where there are (or were) a lot of huge MLB and Red Sox sponsors in Boston such as John Hancock and Gillette, there was enormous pressure to get as many tickets as possible for those entities.

[mascho]

NortheasternPJ, on Jan 26 2008, 09:10 AM, said:

I would imagine MLB is far more concerned with pleasing corporate sponsors than scalping tickets on StubHub.

That isn't the issue. The issue is that MLB is doing both.

Look, these winds picked up steam long ago. My grandfather had season tickets in the front row of Section 148 from 1947 until 1989. Why'd he get out? When he and I went to ALCS game 1 in '88...(the "steroids chant" game) we dutifully went to his seats...in deep CF. Even back then, all the season ticket holders with good seats were forced to the bleachers...

The facts of the game are the same, the only difference is that now MLB might be making money on the deal.

EDIT: Grammar. Hangovers suck.

This post has been edited by mascho: 26 January 2008 - 09:27 AM

[BoSoxLady]

CaptainLaddie, on Jan 26 2008, 05:50 AM, said:

That, or whoever did have those tickets (whether they won them in a lottery or were someone with even better season tix than you) sold them off on StubHub.

I seriously doubt MLB needs the 3k or 4k from a single ticket sold.

Keep in mind that when we're told tickets are held back for MLB, that includes distribution to players, staff, etc. IIRC, every MLB player is given two tickets (I think it's four for larger venues) to attend each post-season game. Most choose not to attend however, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the player/staffer accepts the tickets and gives them to a friend or family member. The pressure is immense. It's entirely possible the person to whom the tickets were given decided to pass them along for sale on Stub Hub. It's an easy way for someone to make a killing.

There's more and more season ticket holders who hardly ever attend a game but their tickets are a hot commodity, so they sell them through a ticket broker. In my section at Fenway, I used to see the same people all the time. Now I see only 4-6 people from the "old days." This phenomenon is due to the acceleration of ticket prices or greed. Hell, even hubby suggested I sell my OD ticket. Seats comparable to mine at $90 face are currently going for $900 on Stub Hub.

[ngruz25]

So...maybe this is a stupid question...but I'm looking for tickets for a Wednesday night game against Texas, in August (8-13, to be exact). I'll gladly take bleacher tickets. This waiting room stuff isn't working any, and I can't sit here all day, so I go check StubHub. Why are there "Up to 10" and "Up to 8" tickets available for virtually every bleacher section, and for every game of the Texas series...and these tickets range from about $80-$589 apiece? Fuck the heck? Who is selling these seats? Independent ticket brokers? Corporations that own the seats? Something far sinister?

[CaptainLaddie]

Kevin Mortons Ghost, on Jan 26 2008, 08:01 AM, said:

You don't think they need the money? Do the math. The Sox played 8 home games in the playoffs last season. Suppose they did this with 1,000 tickets (you don't think they're singling out Koufax, do you?).

1,000 tickets x $3,000 x 8 games = $24 million.

There's probably a lot of worse things Bud Selig would do for $24 million, especially when he's probably doing the same thing at Yankee Stadium and elsewhere too.

Do you really believe this, though? Come on.

[David Laurila]

ngruz25, on Jan 26 2008, 07:19 PM, said:

So...maybe this is a stupid question...but I'm looking for tickets for a Wednesday night game against Texas, in August (8-13, to be exact). I'll gladly take bleacher tickets. This waiting room stuff isn't working any, and I can't sit here all day, so I go check StubHub. Why are there "Up to 10" and "Up to 8" tickets available for virtually every bleacher section, and for every game of the Texas series...and these tickets range from about $80-$589 apiece? Fuck the heck? Who is selling these seats? Independent ticket brokers? Corporations that own the seats? Something far sinister?

Others may disagree, but I feel that the ticket office should be obligated to answer that question. They are responsible for the initial sale of any and all seats to every game. They know who bought them, and there is no reason that knowledge needs to be protected -- at least to level of saying, "They were sold to a season ticket holder" or "They were sold directly to StubHub."

[bd11]

This may sound crazy at first, but I would not be shocked if in the next twenty years we see a situation where only season tickets are sold and the rest of the single game seats are auctioned off. That is how MLB can truly maximize their profits. The Sox have been feeding scaplers tickets for years in order to cash in with no regard as to how many real fans can buy tickets at face. Now with the legislature disinterested and on the verge of eliminating scalpling, the team doesn't even have to pretend anymore. Between the "road trip packages" which include tickets and dumping tickets with local brokers like Ace the team has been scapling tickets for years. And the Patriots do the same. Where do you think the scaplers are getting so many of the tickets from for the Super Bowl?

Sadly it is capitalism and reality. They are another business trying to maximize their profits. At least they don't cheap out on players.

[joewoodfan]

From Smart Money's 10 Things MLB Won't Tell You

smartmoney said:

"Scalping tickets is illegal — unless, of course, we do it."
Since 2001 teams have partnered with online brokers, allowing ticket holders to sell their seats for whatever the market bears; the team gets the initial sale as well as a 25% cut of the profit from the resale. Not only are fans held hostage by this institutionalized price gouging (resale price, and not face value, is printed on the ticket), but any competition is eliminated. In August, MLB tapped StubHub to be its exclusive reseller in the estimated $10 billion market. "Baseball saw ticket resellers as a threat," says lawyer Kim Gordon, who represented Kosterman, "so they decided to get their cut and try to force the other guys out."

Challenges to the policy have generally failed on grounds that online sales fall outside municipal scalping laws. "It's completely legal," says Rebecca Hale, director of public information for the Mariners. "There's nothing left to be said."

The whole article bothers me because it points out ways in which MLB alienates fans for $$$.

In terms of getting tix, I gave up on the VWR about 3 years ago, around the time the Sox went exclusively cable. I'm not going to see them by getting tickets through their organization (because it's not possible, basically), and I refuse to buy scalped tickets and feed the beast. No, I hope to know someone or something, try for the lotteries, and otherwise focus on seeing small ball live. I pay my $x for NESN and see them on TV, like biollante. It's not even worth the Sysephian strain anymore.

This post has been edited by joewoodfan: 26 January 2008 - 08:00 PM

[Rough Carrigan]

David Laurila, on Jan 26 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

Others may disagree, but I feel that the ticket office should be obligated to answer that question. They are responsible for the initial sale of any and all seats to every game. They know who bought them, and there is no reason that knowledge needs to be protected -- at least to level of saying, "They were sold to a season ticket holder" or "They were sold directly to StubHub."

Amen.
If the Glob or Heraldo could rouse themselves to making an effort they'd have a great story to tell everyone of how the average fan is getting totally screwed (again)

[bmacfarlane]

It pisses me off too but I still pay way too much to see three or four games a year at Fenway. I also go to Yankee Stadium and Fenway South. It sucks. I fully blame the Red Sox management for this scenario.

[HighHeat]

I would certainly like to know where the Monster seat tickets are coming from, since, as others have pointed out, they have not even been released yet. Puzzling, to say the least.

That said, the StubHub business model is not a ticket reseller model like Ace Ticket. This disclaimer appears on StubHub's site:

Quote

You are buying tickets from a third party; neither StubHub.com nor StubHub, Inc. is the ticket seller. Ticket prices are set by the seller and may differ from face value. ALL SALES AND BIDS ARE FINAL. No refunds, transaction cancellations or exchanges will be issued for date/time changes or partial performances. Cancelled events will be handled on a case by case basis. All prices listed are in US dollars.

StubHub can't post that disclaimer on their website and then turn around and function as a reseller. Now, if that "third party" is MLB and they are forcing teams to provide tickets which they are in turn putting into the reseller market through StubHub, well, that would appear to be a clear abuse of the antitrust exemption, no?

Someone should be held accountable so that we can determine how Monster seats and similarly "unavailable" tickets are somehow already in the reseller market. The Red Sox ticket office, as David pointed out, would be as good a place as any to start.

[Bowlerman9]

Can season ticket holders can legally sell their tickets on stub hub without getting penalized (i.e. without getting their tickets revoked)?