1212 replies to this topic

[Sille Skrub]

I'm going to start this week's game thread off with a couple of things:

1) On behalf of the dopes and mods, I'd like to thank everyone for their amazing and generous support in this year's Jimmy Fund drive. SoSH raised over $74K this year eclipsing our previous record of $53K in 2004. Great job!

2) We're going to be doing our best to try and clean up the Pats forum during the rest of the season. This includes both the general football area and the game threads. If your post gets deleted, you now know why.

As for the Pats, a few weeks ago one of the guys I tailgate with had a great point. He said, "This is the team we have always wanted." His quote rings in my head each week. This really is the team we have always wanted. Yeah, they've looked like they have taken a step back over the past few weeks, but you aren't going to win each game by 22. From here on out, you are going to get your opponent's best shot every week. As it was repeated ad nauseum during the MNF broadcast, that game was the Ravens' Super Bowl. They had nothing left to play for.

As cliched as it is, in this age of the salary cap and parity, any NFL team can beat any other on "any given Sunday." I'm not so concerned about 19-0; I just want the Pats to be in a position to win on February 3rd. This is all any reasonable football fan can ask for.

While the Pats were finding victory in the depths of certain defeat, I kept asking myself if the 2007 Pats were a team of destiny. In Back to the Future, George McFly tells Lorraine:

Yes. Yes. I'm George, George McFly. I'm your density. I mean... your destiny.

Team of destiny? This remains to be seen. One thing for sure is that there is a lot of density, entitlement and whining in these game threads. I expect that to continue. Where else can the denizens of Al Gore's internet go to feel better about themselves when their undefeated football team starts to show any signs of slippage? Again, most Pats fans don't appreciate how good we have it right now.

The road to the Super Bowl continues on Sunday against the talented Pittsburgh Steelers. Hopefully in this game, the Pats will find ways to improve as the playoffs near.

Roads? Where we're going we don't need.... roads.

Go Pats.

Be fabulous.

[BU1995Hockey]

I'm going to start this week's game thread with a couple of things:
Roads? Where we're going we don't need.... roads.

Go Pats.

Be fabulous.

Gorgeous post. Last night was the best regular season football game I have ever seen. It just was. Lets win this one before we hit the homestretch - the wind is at our backs after Sunday.

*Win it for the '76/'85/'96 Patriots*

[jsinger121]

Bill Belichick is giving the Pats a rare 2 days off this week. They had today off and they also have Wednesday off. BB has never given a Pats team 2 days off in a week with a game only on bye weeks. Hopefully this extra rest will recharge the teams battery.

[DJnVa]

Pats are anywhere from a 10.5 to 13 point favorite in this game.

[dcmissle]

Bill Belichick is giving the Pats a rare 2 days off this week. They had today off and they also have Wednesday off. BB has never given a Pats team 2 days off in a week with a game only on bye weeks. Hopefully this extra rest will recharge the teams battery.

Wise move, I think, and consistent with Moss' hope yesterday that "Bill go easy on us."

They've just come off their two most physical games of the season, and they have a short week. Monday night, they looked a couple of steps late, esp on defense. Their lackluster play doesn't need to be pounded home to them on the practice field -- a couple of film sessions will take care of that.

[bsartist618]

After Moss' comments, I thought that a punishing practice would not be a very good idea if you want the team fresh for Pittsburgh.

We're going to need the defensive line to come up big this week. Without Holmes, the Steelers will be much easier to defend but with him as a deep threat we cannot crowd the line of scrimmage like we did in the 4th quarter Monday. Count me as worried for our defense.

[dcmissle]

After Moss' comments, I thought that a punishing practice would not be a very good idea if you want the team fresh for Pittsburgh.

We're going to need the defensive line to come up big this week. Without Holmes, the Steelers will be much easier to defend but with him as a deep threat we cannot crowd the line of scrimmage like we did in the 4th quarter Monday. Count me as worried for our defense.

Per Ed Bouchette of the PP-G, Holmes may start. Looks like we may be getting them at full strength:

http://www.post-gaze...9/839173-66.stm

Edited by dcmissle, 05 December 2007 - 11:17 AM.

[Carmine Hose]

I would think that practice will be light for the next 3 weeks and then pick back up before the Giants game, where they'll have a bye week thereafter.

[Nator]

After Moss' comments, I thought that a punishing practice would not be a very good idea if you want the team fresh for Pittsburgh.

We're going to need the defensive line to come up big this week. Without Holmes, the Steelers will be much easier to defend but with him as a deep threat we cannot crowd the line of scrimmage like we did in the 4th quarter Monday. Count me as worried for our defense.

I wonder if they neeed to run-blitz a couple of times early in order to stop Parker for losses/short gains early. Like you said though BS, if they guess wrong then Homes is running free, or Miller is open over the middle on a play-action.

Maybe they need to run some more 4-3 in an effort to penetrate into the backfield & disrupt Parker before he gets going. I think if they can frustrate the Steelers running game early for maybe the first few series and (hopefully) build a lead they can make the Steelers one-dimensional.

Any thoughts?

[ObstructedView]

Given the relative success that the Eagles and Ravens had pressuring Brady and slowing down Moss (the Ravens also obviously handcuffed Welker), it will be interesting to see if the Pats continue to use the screens and dump-off passes to the backs. I also wonder whether the series of draws out of the shotgun Monday night were intended partially to give the Steelers and other future opponents something else to think about. This is the third straight “big name” D coordinator they’ve faced, and I’ll be very curious to see what the Pats do to try to stay a step ahead of LeBeau.

Looks like weather could be a factor. Long-range forecasts call for a decent chance of mixed/frozen precip starting sometime on Sunday. The Steelers are probably just giddy at the thought of playing on solid ground.

[nazz45]

I wonder if they need to run-blitz a couple of times early in order to stop Parker for losses/short gains early. Like you said though BS, if they guess wrong then Homes is running free, or Miller is open over the middle on a play-action.

Maybe they need to run some more 4-3 in an effort to penetrate into the backfield & disrupt Parker before he gets going. I think if they can frustrate the Steelers running game early for maybe the first few series and (hopefully) build a lead they can make the Steelers one-dimensional.

Any thoughts?

Not only for the run, but I'd like more 4-3 so the defensive lineman can focus on getting pressure up the middle. The Patriots best pass-rushers come from the edge, but the Steelers weakness resides on the interior of their offensive line, particularly the right side.

Have Harrison play the hybrid linebacker/safety position up on the line to deter the running game. But I don't think you can completely sell out against the run, though, because Roethlisberger will take his shots deep on play-action; so if Parker pulls a McGahee and the Patriots have to compensate to stop him, they'll get themselves into trouble with one-on-one match-ups in the secondary.

Edited by nazz45, 05 December 2007 - 01:23 PM.

[TheoShmeo]

Pats are anywhere from a 10.5 to 13 point favorite in this game.

That kind of variance is a bit unusual and it's interesting in light of results thus far of the admittedly unscientific and bias fueled ESPN fan poll, which shows 54% of voters picking the Steelers to win outright. I don't pay much attention to the these polls but at the same time, it can't be that frequent that a 10.5 point favorite is viewed as unlikely to even win the game by 54% of 50,000 football fans across the country.

I'm guessing that the line is going to move down as the game nears (absent an injury announcement or some other unexpected event).

Fan nation poll

[dynomite]

Good analysis from Football Outsiders--the Steelers defense is clearly the class of the NFL to date. Here's the link.

That said, the Steelers have been average against #1 WRs and surprisingly prone to TEs. As has been said before, the Steelers safties are great run stoppers but can be beat in coverage. Watson has been quiet this season--I see a big game from him.

[SoxScout]

http://www.post-gaze...9/839489-66.stm

Safety Anthony Smith not only thinks the Steelers have a chance to beat the undefeated New England Patriots Sunday, he guarantees it.

"We're going to win,'' Smith said today after practice. "Yeah, I can guarantee a win.''

Smith, a hard-hitting free safety who replaced injured Ryan Clark as the starter midway through the season, said he's not worried about any motivation he might be giving the 12-0 Patriots with his words.

"Now we have our swagger back on defense and we're playing great ball and they're playing great on the offensive side, too,'' he said of the Steelers. "I think we have a real good chance to win the game and we will win the game.''

Not only that, he said while New England's receiving corps of Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Donte Stallworth is good, it isn't as good as the one the Steelers played Sunday against the Bengals , featuring T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Chad Johnson and Chris Henry.

"I think we were facing great receivers last week too and we shut them down,'' Smith said. "Those three guys, I don't think it gets much better than Cincinnati's corps of receivers. We've already seen the best."

Smith added a little more lumber to the fire when he said New England's receivers haven't been hit the way they will be hit on Sunday.

"They said Baltimore was their most physical game but I think we hit harder than Baltimore, so they haven't seen nothing like us yet.

"They should be worried about us. We never worry about receivers. We're the ones doing the hitting. They have to run routes. We're attacking them, they're not really attacking us."

Don't miss him on Sanday...

Edited by SoxScout, 05 December 2007 - 05:58 PM.

[mabrowndog]

Should we bring our popcorn?

These trash-talking punks spouting off have become a little tiresome.

[tailwind]

I'm sure a few of his classier teammates are just thrilled to hear that kind of talk.

I don't think it's fair to victimize the entire squad over what a couple particular players are saying. It might be worth a bit more notice if it was Roethelisberger or Parker, but Anthony Smith, a backup safety who won his starter's job from an injury?

Edited by tailwind, 05 December 2007 - 06:22 PM.

[kenneycb]

Someone has to pick up Joey Porter's slack.

[jsinger121]

On top of Smith opening his mouth I wonder if he is booking a hotel room to Arizona yet?

[Phil Nevin 23]

This is equivalent to awakening the sleeping giant, IMHO.

Pats 48 Steelers 17

[941827]

http://www.covers.co...t...6&sport=nfl

Line is quickly dropping. Opened around 14 and is now around 10.


Edit: I assume this means $ is pouring in behind the Steelers.

Edited by 941827, 05 December 2007 - 08:03 PM.

[Kitchkinet]

I'm not as optimistic as PN23 is, but I do think this game is ours. But as it stands at the moment, I'm going to have to take the spread.

Dallas, although 11-1, has a soft pass defense. That's why we wiped the floor with them earlier. Pittsburgh is #1 in pass AND rush defense. This will be the biggest test of the year.

Pats 23, Steelers 20.

Edited by Kitchkinet, 05 December 2007 - 08:42 PM.

[jsinger121]

I'm not as optimistic as PN23 is, but I do think this game is ours. But as it stands at the moment, I'm going to have to take the spread.

Dallas, although 11-1, has a soft pass defense. That's why we wiped the floor with them earlier. Pittsburgh is #1 in pass AND rush defense. This will be the biggest test of the year.

Pats 23, Steelers 20.

Pittsburgh really has not faced a top passing game like the Patriots though. The only quality passing teams they have faced are Cincy and Cleveland.

[Kitchkinet]

Pittsburgh really has not faced a top passing game like the Patriots though. The only quality passing teams they have faced are Cincy and Cleveland.

And Pittsburgh's swept both. Three of those wins were quite comfortable, too. (34-7 @ CLE, 24-13 @ CIN, 31-28 v. CLE, 24-10 v. CIN)

BTW: Cincy is 2nd in pass offense behind NE in the AFC.

Edited by Kitchkinet, 05 December 2007 - 08:51 PM.

[axx]

I'd be very surprised if the Steelers fail to cover. I kinda thought the line would be at 5-6 points by now. The Patriots played about as bad as you can while still winning, and the Steelers have a decent QB unlike the Eagles and Ravens. And it's supposted to be pretty crappy out on Sunday.

Still say they win, by a point or two on a late TD.

[jsinger121]

And Pittsburgh's swept both. Three of those wins were quite comfortable, too. (34-7 @ CLE, 24-13 @ CIN, 31-28 v. CLE, 24-10 v. CIN)

BTW: Cincy is 2nd in pass offense behind NE in the AFC.

The common theme between Cincy and Cleveland is neither play a lick of quality defense. I do think this will be a good game on Sunday. I'm just amazed that the Steelers are doing their talking already.

Edited by jsinger121, 05 December 2007 - 09:00 PM.

[Kitchkinet]

The common theme between Cincy and Cleveland is neither play a lick of quality defense.

That plays precisely dick with those team's offenses.

Cincy is the #2 pass offense behind NE. #2 in yards (260 ypg), #5 in passing TDs (21; keep in mind #2 Pittsburgh has 25, #3 Cleveland has 24, #4 Indy has 23). And they were shut down twice by the Pittsburgh D to the tune of 1 passing TD between the 2 games.

Perceptions of weak opposition are faulty, because Pittsburgh has had--and shut down--good opponents too. It doesn't mean the Pats O can't click against the Steel Curtain D. But they should not be underestimated.

Edited by Kitchkinet, 05 December 2007 - 09:14 PM.

[jsinger121]

That plays precisely dick with those team's offenses.

Cincy is the #2 pass offense behind NE. #2 in yards (260 ypg), #5 in passing TDs (21; keep in mind #2 Pittsburgh has 25, #3 Cleveland has 24, #4 Indy has 23). And they were shut down twice by the Pittsburgh D to the tune of 1 passing TD between the 2 games.

Perceptions of weak opposition are faulty, because Pittsburgh has had--and shut down--good opponents too. It doesn't mean the Pats O can't click against the Steel Curtain D. But they should not be underestimated.

I'm not underestimating them at all but outside of Cleveland they have beat only 1 winning team and that was Seattle while the Pats have beaten 4 winning teams and 2 of them on the road in Dallas and Indy.

[Kitchkinet]

I'm not underestimating them at all but outside of Cleveland they have beat only 1 winning team and that was Seattle while the Pats have beaten 4 winning teams and 2 of them on the road in Dallas and Indy.

That's because Pittsburgh has largely faced bad defenses. While Cincy and Cleveland are top-notch offenses, they are also at the bottom of the AFC in passing yards against (Cincy 14th, Cleveland dead last) and points against (Cincy 13th, Cleveland dead last). That's why they swept the two good offensive teams they faced: those dynamite offenses pair up with defenses that make Miami look like Tampa Bay.

Edited by Kitchkinet, 05 December 2007 - 09:30 PM.

[Shelterdog]

That plays precisely dick with those team's offenses.

Cincy is the #2 pass offense behind NE. #2 in yards (260 ypg), #5 in passing TDs (21; keep in mind #2 Pittsburgh has 25, #3 Cleveland has 24, #4 Indy has 23). And they were shut down twice by the Pittsburgh D to the tune of 1 passing TD between the 2 games.

Perceptions of weak opposition are faulty, because Pittsburgh has had--and shut down--good opponents too. It doesn't mean the Pats O can't click against the Steel Curtain D. But they should not be underestimated.

I'm going to regret engaging here, but who have the Steelers beaten who's good? Using the footballoutsiders rankings, they've played the 25th hardest schedule in the league and haven't played any of the top 9 teams. They've beaten number 10 Seattle, number 11 Cleveland (twice) and number 12 Cincinatti (twice), but that's it for teams in the top half of the league. They've also beaten number 17 (Baltimore), 18 (Buffalo), 29 (Miami) and 32 (SF). They lost to Arizona (19), Denver (20), and the NY Jets (25). They've had the small benefit of having 7 home games compared with 5 road games. And the footballoutsiders numbers are actually pretty flattering because they rank Cincinatti and Baltimore highly despite both teams' 4-8 records against weak schedules. Dr. Z ranks the teams Pittsburgh has beaten at 9 (Seattle), 11 (Cleveland), 17 (Buff), and puts everyone else at 24 or below. ESPN lists Seattle 9, Cleveland 13, Buffalo 15, and everyone else lower. ESPN has Seattle 7, Cleveland 11, Bills 15 and everyone else at 24 or below.

Pittsburgh has played very well against a pretty weak schedule but they haven't beaten anyone really good and have only beaten a few pretty good teams. The perception of weak opposition is, well, completely correct. The real question is whether Pittsburgh is actually an elite team or if they've just lucked out against a weak schedule.

[patinorange]

http://www.covers.co...t...6&sport=nfl

Line is quickly dropping. Opened around 14 and is now around 10.


Edit: I assume this means $ is pouring in behind the Steelers.

Line at 9.5, Pats coming off a (relative) beat down, Steelers yapping, and we are at home.

Easy money ( if I was a gambling man )

The over is tempting. I see the Pats scoring 40 on their own. This is a lousy road team that hasn't played a tough schedule.

The close score of the Ravens game makes this line a value IMO.

Moss and Brady go wild.

[Freddy Linn]

I'm sure a few of his classier teammates are just thrilled to hear that kind of talk.

I don't think it's fair to victimize the entire squad over what a couple particular players are saying. It might be worth a bit more notice if it was Roethelisberger or Parker, but Anthony Smith, a backup safety who won his starter's job from an injury?

Food for thought: the equivalent player from the Pats making this statement would be James Sanders.

[DJnVa]

I'm going to regret engaging here, but who have the Steelers beaten who's good?

But the betting and public sentiment is based more on how the teams are playing now and the fact that the stories about the Patriots now are about them losing, how to beat them, etc. The public focus for an undefeated team is on them LOSING. Experts and columnists all talk about "blueprints" and want to be the guy that calls that first loss correctly. The Patriots winning and going to 13-0 and clearing a major hurdle in the 16-0 hunt is a good story. The Steelers talking trash and winning in New England to stop the streak is a GREAT story, so that's the focus.

I hoping the return to Sunday afternoon football sparks New England. I think New England pulls away late.

[bsartist618]

Just in regards to beating Cinci and Cleveland twice. It should be noted that the first win against Cleveland was before Derek Anderson and the emergence of the Cleveland offense. I think it was the first or second week of the season.

The 31-28 game later in the year is a bit more indicative of how they stack up against Cleveland's high-scoring offense and poor defense.

Pats should score at least 30. I am worried about our defense though.

[Carmine Hose]

Accuweather forecast for Foxborough Sunday as of 10:45 am Thursday

Daytime

High: 37 °F RealFeel®: 34 °F
Mostly cloudy with a bit of snow, sleet and rain in the afternoon

Nighttime

Low: 20 °F RealFeel®: 16 °F
Snow, sleet, and freezing rain

[BU1995Hockey]

31-17 Patriots.

[Carmine Hose]

Peter King weighs in on his Weekly picks

Pittsburgh Steelers (9-3) at New England Patriots (12-0)

Five reasons: 1. A.J. Feeley and Kyle Boller have put up 52 points on the Patriots the last two weeks; Ben Roethlisberger won't make the kind of late-game mistakes those two backups did. 2. Brian Westbrook and Willis McGahee have rushed for 190 yards on the Pats the last two weeks. I'm not in love with Willie Parker's recent rushing numbers -- 52, 81 and 87 yards, against three straight sub-.500 teams -- but I think the Patriots will be vulnerable against a power running game. 3. Pats are tired after three straight night games, including the emotional Monday-nighter in frigid Baltimore. Bill Belichick didn't even practice them Wednesday, an incredible rarity with a Sunday game upcoming. 4. Hines Ward's will to win. The dude leads the league in it. 5. Just a gut feeling. The strain of going for perfection seems to be wearing on New England, while Pittsburgh is just bullyish enough not to fear the enormity of Sunday's stage.

Steelers 27, Patriots 20

____________

Counterpoint - 1. Whatever. The Eagle plan was to stop Westbrook, which they did, and let Feeley make a go. Well, he did, until of course he threw 3 picks. McGahee was the Ravens' catalyst, not Boller, who threw an awful pick himself. 2. McGahee rushed for 138 and Westbrook rushed for 52, so let's not make it seem like a pattern. 3. Yes the Pats are tired, much like every other NFL team that has played 12 games in 13 weeks, which is, oh yeah, all of them. The big difference is the Pats have won all 12 of theirs. 4. Apparently Ward forgot to activate his will to win against the very tough Jets and Cardinals and the mediocre Broncos. Maybe it doesn't work as well on the road, which is where the Steelers find themselves this week. 5. Perfectly fine sentiment, but moreso wanting to be "the guy who called it" We'll see a lot of that this week from the mediots.

Let's let them play the game.

[Sea Dog]

4. Apparently Ward forgot to activate his will to win against the very tough Jets and Cardinals and the mediocre Broncos. Maybe it doesn't work as well on the road, which is where the Steelers find themselves this week.

Minor correction -- Ward didn't play against the Cardinals. He sat out, due to injury.

Edited by Sea Dog, 06 December 2007 - 01:41 PM.

[BigSoxFan]

"Power" is not an adjective I'd use to describe the Steelers' running game with Willie Parker. With that said, the Pats' run defense was terrible on Monday so power or not, they'll need to play a lot better.

[redinchicago]

"Power" is not an adjective I'd use to describe the Steelers' running game with Willie Parker. With that said, the Pats' run defense was terrible on Monday so power or not, they'll need to play a lot better.

Well, you may think power refers to the RB. But most refer to power running attack goes to the OL first, then the RB. Power running attack starts with how the OL attacks the other team. Denver, not consider a power running attack. Indy, not considered a power running attack.

[Kitchkinet]

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3142456

Defensive back Anthony Smith is so certain the Pittsburgh Steelers will end the New England Patriots' unbeaten season, he is guaranteeing a win Sunday in Foxborough.

The Patriots (12-0) may have the perfect record, Smith said Wednesday, but it should be New England that is worried about the Steelers (9-3) rather than the other way around.

"People keep asking me if we're ready for the Patriots," Smith said. "They should be asking if they're ready for us."

"We're going to win," Smith said. "Yeah, I can guarantee a win. As long as we come out and do what we got to do. Both sides of the ball are rolling, and if our special teams come through for us, we've got a good chance to win."

*ahem*

Who the fuck is Anthony Smith?

Edited by Kitchkinet, 06 December 2007 - 03:35 PM.

[Doza]

I used to respect Peter King a lot more when he seemed to know what he was talking about. I have a gut feeling too, but thats usually when I need to take a dump.

[njingles3]

Peter King weighs in on his Weekly picks

Reason #1 the postgame will be hilarious: Hines Ward's will to cry. The dude leads the league in it.

[CWiggum]

The tough part of predicting this one is that I honestly have no clue how good Pittsburgh is. They have not really beaten any of the elite teams, they have been bad on the road, and their offense has struggled as of late (albeit in brutal field conditions). But, they have also looked dominating at times, and their defense is obviously legit (though I don't know if they match up as well against the Pats as THE Raven defense). I think the Pats will play well and I think the Pats will win, but I have no real feel for what kind of game it'll be.

Edited by CWiggum, 06 December 2007 - 05:23 PM.

[TheoShmeo]

King's point on Hines Ward's will to win reminds me of what he wrote in June about Peyton Manning's drive to win when he picked the Colts to win the SB:

"But Tony Dungy tells me Manning has lost absolutely nothing of his Jeteresque drive to be great day in and day out."

King Drivel

I'm not saying that Hines Ward isn't a helluva player and that he doesn't have a great will to win. I am saying that that point is a red herring in that both teams are probably populated with many players with an equal will to win. Does Ward really have more will to win than guys like Tom Brady, Rodney Harrison and Tedy Bruschi? Does it matter?

Hines Ward's ability to catch balls in traffic is a relevant factor on Sunday. Maybe he would have caught the ball that Donte Stallworth dropped on the first play of the last Pats' drive on Monday night in Baltimore. Maybe he'll catch some balls like that on Sunday afternoon and throw some great blocks. But to predicate a game prediction on one player's will to win seems incredibly simplistic in a sport with 22 guys on the field at all times and given who the Steelers are playing.

[RedOctober3829]

Who else will be at the Blade on this lovely Sunday afternoon?

[Carmine Hose]

Who else will be at the Blade on this lovely Sunday afternoon?

Me.

[DegenerateSoxFan]

Here's hoping the crowd at the Blade is up for this one. I know this was debated in another thread, and yes, the open end of the stadium lets out a lot of sound, but friends of mine who've been to games this year (I haven't been fortunate enough to get that chance) claim that the fans aren't doing themselves proud. This is a big game. If I'm not mistaken, a win in this one clinches the first round bye. Also, The Steelers are probably the last team with a realistic chance to knock off the Pats in the regular season.

My head, for the objective reasons that wouldn't be original observations, says this should be a dog fight in which Pittsburg has a real chance. My gut feeling though, is that the Pats win this one handily. I think BB is really resting the guys this week, and it will show on Sunday.

Pats, 31-17. Rothlisberger tosses 2 big picks.

[RedOctober3829]

Me.

Whoever is going to be there should meet for a beer pregame.

[Carmine Hose]

If I'm not mistaken, a win in this one clinches the first round bye.

Unfortunately they can't also win home field too unless the Colts lose, because they would only be 2 up with 3 to play. That would be next week vs. the Jest (sic).