[Rdsxmbnt]

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The Twins may have reached the point where they have the best offers they are going to get from the Yankees and Red Sox for pitcher Johan Santana.

With the Yankees' offer now upgraded to include top young pitcher Phil Hughes, the Twins spoke again with the Red Sox late Saturday afternoon, sources say, and Boston generated a few new ideas for its proposed offer.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3136495

This post has been edited by Rdsxmbnt: 01 December 2007 - 07:58 PM

[Crazy Puppy]

Some updates from Jon Heyman at SI:

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NASHVILLE -- The Yankees have acceded to the Twins' wishes that top young pitcher Phil Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera be included in a potential trade for superstar pitcher Johan Santana, but Minnesota and the Yankees are now haggling over the third prospect that's to be put into the deal. Meanwhile, the Twins are still talking to the Red Sox, as well.

Minnesota has requested the Yankees surrender either pitcher Alan Horne or outfielder Austin Jackson as the third player, but the Yankees have thus far refused to include either in the deal for the two-time Cy Young winner. Most baseball insiders still see the Yankees as the favorite to land Santana with their inclusion of Hughes, but if the sides can't agree on the third prospect, the Yankees may consider setting a deadline for Minnesota to accept their proposal.

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It appears the Red Sox would only consider parting with Ellsbury if the Twins offered an extra player or two in addition to Santana, and people close to the situation say that would take considerable creativity. Boston and Minnesota have remained in contact, but it's believed the Yankees have come closer to meeting the Twins' asking price to this point.

[GriffinDoerr]

Interesting/odd comment from Peter Abraham on his blog:

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Now that most everybody believes the Red Sox aren’t serious, the Yankees are putting some pressure on the Twins to make this deal before it gets any more complicated.

Abraham's blog

[Wade Boggs Hair]

Minneapolis-St. Paul Star Tribune:

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According to a person close to the Twins' negotiations, the club will take a hard line in trade talks involving Santana during this week's winter meetings in Nashville. And that means -- no matter how certain it has seemed that Santana will be traded -- that the club would be comfortable entering the 2008 season with their two-time Cy Young Award winner in the rotation if no offer is good enough.

The source said the Twins have made their demands clear to the Red Sox, Yankees and other clubs interested in Santana and they will not compromise. They are willing to risk trying to deal Santana in July, when the return could be less, or even risk watching him walk away as a free agent after the season, with only draft picks as compensation.

That means either outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury or righthander Clay Buchholz must be added to Boston's offer, which is believed to include lefthander Jon Lester and shortstop prospect Jed Lowrie. The Twins feel the fleet Ellsbury could develop into a force at the top of their order. The word on Saturday was that the Red Sox and Twins were set for a key evening meeting.

The Twins' stance means the Yankees must provide a package that includes center fielder Melky Cabrera and righthanded phenom Phillip Hughes and perhaps even righthanded prospect Ian Kennedy. Hughes and Kennedy, if they wind up in Minnesota, would go right into the Twins' rotation. The Twins think Cabrera is a solid player, not with Ellsbury's ceiling, but solid. And more players (Jose Tabata?) could be involved.

link

This post has been edited by Wade Boggs Hair: 03 December 2007 - 11:54 AM

[TheoShmeo]

Newsday link

First three paragraphs:

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"A Yankees official said Saturday night, on the condition of anonymity, that he is optimistic about the team's chan.ces of acquiring Twins ace Johan Santana.

The Yankees upped their offer to the Twins yesterday, adding prized righthander Phil Hughes to the mix in place of righthander Ian Kennedy. The Yankees hope the Twins will accept an offer of Hughes, centerfielder Melky Cabrera and a third, lesser prospect to be determined. The two sides could meet face-to-face as early as Sunday; the winter meetings officially begin Monday in Nashville.

As long as the Red Sox stick to their current offer for Santana -- which numerous reports say includes lefthander Jon Lester, centerfielder Coco Crisp and infield prospect Jed Lowrie -- the Yankees believe they will wind up netting the lefthander."

NY Times link

First two paragraphs:

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"The Yankees insist they have gone as far as they are willing to go in their trade offer for Johan Santana, the ace left-hander of the Minnesota Twins. Their chances of getting him depend on whether the Twins insist on receiving another top prospect in the deal.

It was a wrenching decision for Yankees executives to offer Phil Hughes, the 21-year-old starter who has come to symbolize the revival of the Yankees’ farm system. They did so because of the depth behind Hughes, and that is what the Twins want to tap now that a deal seems close."

This post has been edited by Sille Skrub: 02 December 2007 - 01:25 AM

[JohntheBaptist]

Whole lotta nothing from the Herald.

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The Yankees are currently the lead horse in the jockeying for the left-handed ace. On Friday, according to multiple baseball sources, New York decided to include its top pitching prospect, right-hander Phil Hughes, in a package that also includes outfielder Melky Cabrera. Starter Ian Kennedy had been paired with Cabrera but after the Red Sox appeared to gain traction, the Yankees upped their offer. Apparently, Kennedy has not necessarily been replaced by Hughes; the righty could still be on the wish list. The Twins could also be asking for other top prospects that the Yankees do not want to include.

The Sox, meanwhile, are believed to be deciding what to do next. They would like the Twins to accept a package of left-handed starter Jon Lester [stats]and center fielder Coco Crisp [stats], but Minnesota is believed to want, at least, either right-hander Clay Buchholz or center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury.

So far, the Red Sox are not backing off of their desire to retain Ellsbury and Buchholz.

Insiders are still saying talks are not expected to wrap up over the weekend. However, the situation remains fluid and a deal could be just one phone call away from consummation.

[JohntheBaptist]

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With the Yankees' offer now upgraded to include top young pitcher Phil Hughes, the Twins spoke again with the Red Sox late Saturday afternoon, sources say, and Boston generated a few new ideas for its proposed offer.

Olney's got a tiny update.

[Corsi Combover]

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The Sox are a major player for Santana, who would re-create Pedro Martínez from the left side for them. They are willing to deal their surplus (Coco Crisp), one of their top pitching prospects (Jon Lester or Clay Buchholz), as well as second-tier prospects for Santana. The price will be steep, but a Santana-Josh Beckett tandem would be pretty tough to beat.

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The Yankees were mulling whether to part with a package that includes center fielder Melky Cabrera and righthander Phil Hughes. They have said no to anyone asking for Joba Chamberlain, but would likely surrender Ian Kennedy and Ross Ohlendorf.

Source: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/arti...these_meetings/

[Corsi Combover]

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Twins GM Bill Smith was already on his way to Nashville yesterday, but with the Yankees having elected to include prize pitching prospect Phil Hughes in a package that also includes center fielder Melky Cabrera, there were indications that Smith was planning to give the Sox one more chance to include either center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury or pitcher Clay Buchholz in the package the Sox would be willing to exchange for Santana.

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To date, the Sox have been unwilling to do so, preferring to offer a package centered around lefthander Jon Lester, pitching prospect Justin Masterson, center fielder Coco Crisp, and perhaps pitching prospect Michael Bowden.

Source: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...stock_up_again/

[Corsi Combover]

Quote

The Yankees were hoping their decision Friday to include Phil Hughes in a trade package would seal a deal for Johan Santana, but the Twins weren't wowed by the offer. Instead, they let word leak Saturday that they will be perfectly happy to go into next season with Santana in their starting rotation if they don't get what they want.

And apparently what they want is another top-tier prospect from the Yankees, either pitcher Alan Horne or outfielder Austin Jackson, to go along with Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera.

The Yankees aren't willing to give up a player of that level, at least for now, and were under the impression that including Hughes in the deal would make the third player a second-tier prospect.

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A Twins source said Smith continued to ask about Ian Kennedy, another of the Yankees' prized pitching prospects, even after receiving the Hughes offer. However, the Yankees, according to a club source, made clear the team's position that it wouldn't be pushed into adding Kennedy, and said they would "walk away" from the Santana talks if it came to that. There were reports they had insisted on a deadline in the next few days for the Twins to respond.

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Apparently the Twins came off the demand for Kennedy at some point last night, but they remained insistent on getting another high-level prospect. A Yankee source last night said such negotiating over a third prospect "shouldn't be a deal-breaker."

Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball..._package_w.html

[RSN Diaspora]

I don't know how much more reliable this is than US sources, but I decided to check El Universal, the daily newspaper from Caracas, which is about an hour east of Santana's hometown. They paint the current status as pretty close for NYY and find our offer a nonstarter:

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Minnesota anunció el viernes su deseo de adquirir a Hughes, de 21 años, en cualquier negociación por Santana. Las ofertas originales de Nueva York giraban alrededor del jardinero Melky Cabrera y el diestro Ian Kennedy, ya que Joba Chamberlain y Robinson Canó estaban descartados.

Sin embargo, las conversaciones podrían tener un final feliz si los Yanquis están dispuestos a desprenderse de Hughes, quien es considerado uno de los mejores prospectos del beisbol.

Hughes completó la temporada con foja de 5-3 con 4.46 de efectividad. Además, obtuvo la única victoria de los Yanquis en la Serie Divisional ante los Indios de Cleveland, según se recuerda en el sitio oficial en Internet de las Grandes Ligas: mlb.com.

La decisión de Nueva York de ofrecer a Hughes no fue fácil. El New York Daily News reportó que hubo debates acalorados entre los dirigentes de la organización, incluyendo al gerente general Brian Cashman y al vicepresidente Hank Steinbrenner.

Por otra parte, los Medias Rojas de Boston están discutiendo oportunidades con el gerente general de Minnesota, Bill Smith, pero también enfrentan un problema similar al de Nueva York.

Boston ha ofrecido al zurdo Jon Lester y al jardinero Coco Crisp a cambio de Santana, pero Minnesota sólo quiere al jardinero Jacoby Ellsbury y al diestro Clay Buchholz, jugadores imprescindibles para los campeones de la Serie Mundial.

Which translates to:

Quote

On Friday, Minnesota said they would want the 21-yr old Hughes included in any trade for Santana. New York's original offer of outfielder Melky Cabrera and pitcher Ian Kennedy was rejected, since Joba Chamberlain and Robinson Cano were not included.

Nevertheless, the negotiations could have a happy ending if the Yankees are prepared to part with Hughes, who is considered one of the best prospects in baseball.

Hughes finished the previous season with a record of 5-3 and a 4.46 ERA. In addition, he earned the Yankees' only win in the Divisional Series against Cleveland, according to Major League Baseball's official website, mlb.com.

New York's decision to offer to Hughes did not come easily. The New York Daily News reported that there were heated debates between the leaders of the organization, including general manager Brian Cashman and vice-president Hank Steinbrenner.

The Boston Red Sox are also discussing opportunities with the general manager of Minnesota, Bill Smith, but they face a problem similar to that of New York.

Boston has offered left-handed pitcher Jon Lester and outfielder Coco Crisp in exchange for Santana, but Minnesota only wants outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury and pitcher Clay Buchholz, who are essential players for the World Series champions.

An initial caveat: I am merely proficient in Spanish, not yet reaching the level of fluency, so there may be some verbage that a more fluent speaker would translate differently. That said, if the report is true, and only Ellsbury and Buchholz will get the deal done, then I suspect we've got a serious problem.

[Corsi Combover]

Quote

With the Minnesota Twins insisting on center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury in any trade for pitcher Johan Santana, the Red Sox have altered their offer and have told the Twins they willing to include Ellsbury.

But sources say the Red Sox have also told the Twins they will not traded left-handed pitcher Jon Lester and Ellsbury together in the package they are offering.

Quote

The Yankees, meanwhile, have informed the Twins that they are going to pull their offer off the table soon -- perhaps by Tuesday, latest -- unless they get an answer. The Yankees changed their offer on Friday, adding pitcher Phil Hughes after much internal debate, to go along with Melky Cabrera and a third prospect.

The Yankees have told the Twins they will not give them one of their top prospects as the third player in their offer -- not pitchers Ian Kennedy or Alan Horne, or outfielder Austin Jackson, for example.

Quote

The Red Sox included Ellsbury in one of their proposals a week ago, but the Twins asked the Red Sox for two players among the group of three prospects  Ellsbury, Lester and pitcher Clay Buchholz. Boston then offered Lester, center fielder Coco Crisp, minor league shortstop Jed Lowrie and a minor league pitcher.

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The Twins have continued to ask for Ellsbury, so the Red Sox have flipped Ellsbury back into their offer, sources say, while removing Lester, and upgraded slightly the rest of their proposed package slightly  perhaps to include right-handed pitcher Justin Masterson.

Source: http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3138088

[Corsi Combover]

Quote

WBZ-TV's Dan Roche has confirmed that the Red Sox have now made outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury the "centerpiece" of their trade offer to the Minnesota Twins in exchange for star pitcher Johan Santana.

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As for the rest of the mix? The names that are out there include Jed Lowrie, Justin Masterson, Michael Bowden, and possibly Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester.

Source: http://wbztv.com/roc..._336175600.html

[Corsi Combover]

Quote

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - It might be now or never for the Twins if they wish to trade left-hander Johan Santana.

According to major-league sources, Santana has informed the Twins that he would not waive his no-trade clause during the season, ending any chance that he could be moved before the July 31 non-waiver deadline.

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The Red Sox also remain in the mix for Santana, offering a four-player package that includes pitcher Jon Lester or center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury along with shortstop Jed Lowrie. The Sox would include center fielder Coco Crisp if the Twins chose Lester.

Ellsbury, sources say, has been available to the Twins from the start of their discussions with the Red Sox, but not in a deal with Lester. The Sox have told the Twins they are willing to be creative if the Twins are that adamant that Ellsbury is included in the deal.

Source: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7517774...3162&ATT=49

This post has been edited by Corsi Combover: 02 December 2007 - 07:22 PM

[Corsi Combover]

Quote

NASHVILLE -- The Yankees have set a Monday deadline for the Twins to respond to their proposed trade of top young pitcher Phil Hughes, center fielder Melky Cabrera and a third prospect for superstar pitcher Johan Santana, SI.com has learned.

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After receiving word of the Monday deadline late Saturday, the Twins apparently hadn't gotten back to the Yankees by Sunday afternoon. Minnesota originally requested Hughes and Cabrera. However, apparently there's a difference of opinion over the third player in the deal.

Source: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base...alks/index.html

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Johan won't waive his no-trade clause during the mid-season

This post has been edited by Maalox: 02 December 2007 - 07:38 PM

[Rough Carrigan]

Somewhat relevant, Ken Rosenthal's reporting that the Padres are just about to sign Jake Peavy, the unanimous NL Cy Young award winner to a 3 year contract extension at a little over $17 million per year.

Peavy extension at $17 million plus

Dopenote: I'm keeping this in the thread because, as RC alludes, it may be relevant to how much Santana is worth in trade. A Dan Haren extension story would be relevant too. This does not mean every contract inked between now and the conclusion of the Santana saga should be added here. Only what is potentially relevant to Santana belongs here. The signing of Andruw Jones by the Rangers would not be relevant. The signing of Andruw Jones by the Yankees, Sox or Twins would be.

[E5 Yaz]

You tell'em Hank:

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"I’m not going to be played against the Red Sox. That’s not something I’ll do. That’s not something the Yankees should ever do, and that’s I think what they’re trying to do now," Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Sunday. "So if they want the best offer that has been offered to them, then they need to make up their minds."

Steinbrenner wouldn’t set a specific time Monday for pulling out.

"We’ll see how it goes, but this is not an act. It’s not a bluff. It’s just reality," he said. "Because as much as I want Santana, and you can make that clear — for his sake, to know that I do want him — but the fact is that I’m not going to play the game. We’ve made them the best offer. And at this point, it’s not going to get any better. So they can decide. At this point, it’s up to them. I don’t think they want to lose us in this thing, obviously. Nobody wants to lose the Yankees in a negotiation."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?sectio...&id=3138707

[templeUsox]

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NASHVILLE - Here's what we've learned in the first few hours here at the Winter Meetings: According to major league sources none of Boston's young prospects are untouchable in talks with the Twins for Johan Santana.

But there's a major "but...".

If Jacoby Ellsbury is included in the package, the rest of the package won't include Jon Lester or Clay Buchholz. In other words, the Red Sox are taking a very systematic approach to this.. They're telling the Twins, you can have one of these guys, but the rest of the package won't include our three best prospects. The rest of the package will be something less than the Twins desire.

The Twins wanted to hear the Yankees say OK on Phillip Hughes and apparenly they have heard that. But the Yankees, according to sources, are taking a similar approach to Boston: take Hughes and maybe Melky Cabrera, but don't expect much after that.

What's the end game? If the Red Sox succeed in raising the price for the Yankess to acquire Santana they'd enjoy that. If they land Santana, they'll enjoy that, too. If neither the Red Sox or Yankees land Santana either because they can't agree to players or they can't agree to a deal for the free-agent lefty to be after the 2008 season, that's even better. In that scenario Santana stays with Minnesota for the time being or he's shopped out of the AL East.

SI. com reported tonight that the Yankes have a Monday deadline on a deal for Santana. Brian Cashman doesn't get here until Monday. According to major league sources the Red Sox have given the Twins no deadline on their end, so they're willing to wait it out.

Cafardo- Extra Bases

[tywebb444]

A little more from Hank. Gotta love how this guy just can't help himself

http://www.newsday.c...,0,399845.story

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"I think our offer is the best offer," Steinbrenner said. "We have the best young pitchers in the game, even better than Boston."

This post has been edited by tywebb444: 02 December 2007 - 09:24 PM