440 replies to this topic

[doc]

http://sportsillustr...ml?eref=mostpop
Don't these guys proofread their work?

Must be a luker

[PooNani]

It will all come down to how desperate New York is. If they include Hughes in the deal they can trump any deal Boston can offer, and that includes one with Ellsbury or Buchholz. The only way Boston would be able to trump a deal that involved Hughes would be to include Ellsbury and Buchholz, which they would never do. If Boston adds Ellsbury or Buchholz to the deal, New York will then add Hughes, which would force Boston to include both of them if they want Santana. Either way, New York stands to lose the least between the two. They either land Santana in the end while still keeping their "untouchable" prospect (Chamberlin), or they lose out to Santana but force their rivals to give up both of their "untouchable" prospects (Ellsbury, Buchholz).

Depends on if Minnesota prefers Buchholz to Hughes.

If Lester, Crisp, Lowrie is better than Kennedy, Cabrera, Tabata....then maybe Buchholz, Crisp, Lowrie is still better than Hughes, Cabrera, Tabata in their eyes

If the Sox put together a package of Buchholz, Ellsbury, and Lowrie...the Yankees could counter with Hughes, Kennedy, and Cabrera

really what it comes down to is what the Twins really think of each of these players individually, and if either team is willing to bite.

As a Yankee fan, i wouldnt be upset if the Sox traded Buchholz in a deal for Santana. The kid's fastball command isnt amazing, but i'd be willing to bet that Buchholz is more valuable over the next 6 years than Santana.

[EvilEmpire]

It will all come down to how desperate New York is. If they include Hughes in the deal they can trump any deal Boston can offer, and that includes one with Ellsbury or Buchholz. The only way Boston would be able to trump a deal that involved Hughes would be to include Ellsbury and Buchholz, which they would never do. If Boston adds Ellsbury or Buchholz to the deal, New York will then add Hughes, which would force Boston to include both of them if they want Santana. Either way, New York stands to lose the least between the two. They either land Santana in the end while still keeping their "untouchable" prospect (Chamberlin), or they lose out to Santana but force their rivals to give up both of their "untouchable" prospects (Ellsbury, Buchholz).

This seems logical to me. They offer Hughes if Boston adds in Ellsbury first. If Boston adds in Ellsbury then it means they really do want Santana and will probably pay the freight to sign him. Without that happening, the Yankees hold on to Hughes. I really think the prospect of Minnesota holding on to Santana doesn't scare the Yankees if it mean they have a chance of keeping Hughes and signing Santana as a FA after next season.

[tailwind]

Buchholz isn't going anywhere unless the Twins are giving us Santana for him straight up. Ditto that with Chamberlain for the Yankees.

I still think a package based around Ellsbury, Lowrie, Lester is better for the situation than Hughes, Melky, Kennedy. Not in terms of sheer talent, but how it fits for the Twins. They already have guys like Kennedy in Baker and Slowey, and Lowrie and Ellsbury present two positional pieces that could start for them next season, compared to just one in the Yankee deal in Melky, and I don't think they're as interested in talents like Jackson and Tabata because of how far off they are.

Even then, it's really close. I'm hoping the Twins like Ellsbury or Coco's speed and defense more than Melky's bat potential.

[NYCSox]

This seems logical to me. They offer Hughes if Boston adds in Ellsbury first. If Boston adds in Ellsbury then it means they really do want Santana and will probably pay the freight to sign him. Without that happening, the Yankees hold on to Hughes. I really think the prospect of Minnesota holding on to Santana doesn't scare the Yankees if it mean they have a chance of keeping Hughes and signing Santana as a FA after next season.

Yes, with one small caveat. If (and I think this is pretty unlikely at this point) the Twins are willing to do a deal without Chamberlain/Hughes or Buchholz/Ellsbury, then the Sox currently have the advanatge. So it depends on which team is the first to blink on these guys. If no one blinks, then he probably either stays with the Twins at least for the start of the season unless one of the LA teams gets their act in order and makes a push. The question is do either the Sox or Yankees do anything if a third team jumps in? My hunch says no - that they will jump in only if the other makes a move and pushes one of the expensive chips into the pot. That could change if it appears that the acquiring LA team is also able to sign him to an extension, but I doubt it.

[Jack Sox]

This seems logical to me. They offer Hughes if Boston adds in Ellsbury first. If Boston adds in Ellsbury then it means they really do want Santana and will probably pay the freight to sign him. Without that happening, the Yankees hold on to Hughes. I really think the prospect of Minnesota holding on to Santana doesn't scare the Yankees if it mean they have a chance of keeping Hughes and signing Santana as a FA after next season.

Except that this is backwards. The Twins know who needs Santana more out of the Sox and Yankees and are using it to their advantage. As of now it appears that the Twins prefer the Sox offer. That may be legit or that may be a ploy to get more out of the Yankees, no one really knows. But right now the Sox offer is in the lead, and that could change if the Yankees offer Hughes. If they do, perhaps the Twins shop the offer back to Boston to include one of Ellsbury or Buchholz. And this could continue until they reach a deal that satisfies their needs.

The Twins are playing this really really well.

[Rockin Robbin]

If Boston wants New York to pay a hefty price for Santana, they are going to have to make the first move by including Ellsbury in the deal. Cashman will not put Hughes on the table first unless he feels that Boston is a legitimate threat, and putting Ellsbury on the table would do that. Once Cashman counters this by then adding Hughes, it will be up Epstein to make the final move. Cashman is telling Epstein "You want Santana? You're going to have to give up Ellsbury and Buchholz." Epstein is telling Cashman "You want Santana? You're going to have to give up Hughes."

[snowmanny]

If Boston wants New York to pay a hefty price for Santana, they are going to have to make the first move by including Ellsbury in the deal. Cashman will not put Hughes on the table first unless he feels that Boston is a legitimate threat, and putting Ellsbury on the table would do that. Once Cashman counters this by then adding Hughes, it will be up Epstein to make the final move. Cashman is telling Epstein "You want Santana? You're going to have to give up Ellsbury and Buchholz." Epstein is telling Cashman "You want Santana? You're going to have to give up Hughes."

I think that may be completely wrong. You are assuming that the Yankees have the best offer on the table and that the next move is up to the Red Sox. It may be that the Sox have the best offer and the Yankees have to decide on Hughes.

You are also assuming that Hughes trumps Ellsbury. We don't know that this is true.
At least in the mind of the Twins.

Personally, I would not trade Buchholz, and if I was NY I would not trade Hughes (and I am in the dwindling minority that prefers Hughes to Chamberlain). I also personally would value Hughes over Ellsbury but there has been zero indication that the Twins feel the same way.

Finally, a lot of trades might happen. But one that is not happening is Buchholz and Ellsbury for Santana.

[PooNani]

I don't think they're as interested in talents like Jackson and Tabata because of how far off they are.

Can we stop with this? Jackson and Tabata will both start in AA and could concievably be up in September and starting in 09. Masterson and Bowden fall under the same category, while Lowrie is just one level ahead. One could argue that Lowrie needs more seasoning in the minors based on his decreased plate discipline up in AAA (and like with Jackson, questioning if his abilities are closer to his 07 numbers or 06 numbers). Yes, timetable-wise Lowrie is ahead of the other 4 prospects being discussed, but its not as if these other prospects are 2-3 years away. Bigger bust potential, but bigger ceiling as well.

[EvilEmpire]

Jack Sox brings up a valid issue: what if the Twins are willing to settle for the current Boston offer? The way it was made public so quickly certainly makes it seem like a ploy, but the possibility of the Twins accepting the best deal on the table at some point is credible. While I would love to see them hold on to Santana if they don't get a deal they like, I really don't see it happening. They have to come away with something for Santana, and waiting until the trading deadline is too risky.

I still think the Yankees wait though. I think it is more likely that if the Yankees and Sox refuse to budge off of current offers that either the Angels or Dodgers sweep in with something marginally better. I can't see Lester/Crisp/Lowrie getting it done when either of those two teams could offer something better without giving up too much. That might prompt the Yankees to offer Hughes, but I don't think they feel compelled to as they would if it were Boston.

[Jack Sox]

I think that may be completely wrong. You are assuming that the Yankees have the best offer on the table and that the next move is up to the Red Sox. It may be that the Sox have the best offer and the Yankees have to decide on Hughes.

You are also assuming that Hughes trumps Ellsbury. We don't know that this is true.
At least in the mind of the Twins.

Personally, I would not trade Buchholz, and if I was NY I would not trade Hughes (and I am in the dwindling minority that prefers Hughes to Chamberlain). I also personally would value Hughes over Ellsbury but there has been zero indication that the Twins feel the same way.

Finally, a lot of trades might happen. But one that is not happening is Buchholz and Ellsbury for Santana.

By every indication we've heard, this is the case. The Twins understand who needs Santana more - which is why there are reports they prefer the Sox package despite the fact that it may not be true (who knows?).

[Mike in CT]

If Boston wants New York to pay a hefty price for Santana, they are going to have to make the first move by including Ellsbury in the deal. Cashman will not put Hughes on the table first unless he feels that Boston is a legitimate threat, and putting Ellsbury on the table would do that. Once Cashman counters this by then adding Hughes, it will be up Epstein to make the final move. Cashman is telling Epstein "You want Santana? You're going to have to give up Ellsbury and Buchholz." Epstein is telling Cashman "You want Santana? You're going to have to give up Hughes."

I would be very surprised if Theo has reached his limit in this trade. He should offer Ellsbury, but lighten the back end of the package (ie. Lester, Ellsbury, Moss). There is no way the Yankees stand firm and don't up their offer by including Hughes, and maybe more.

The Yankees have leaked out too much stuff. They've touted their A-Ball pitchers as "making them forget all about Hughes", and Gene Michael has said he would seriously consider giving up Hughes to get Santana.

The Yankees don't have the discipline to stand firm after Ellsbury is reportedly included.

[BG913]

Here's another fun experiment:

1. Look at Jon Lester's age
2. Go find several pitchers who were average at Jon Lester's age, had very little command, and then see what they did since being that young.
3. Here's a hint: the majority of those pitchers are out of the league

1. Look at Jon Lester's age
2. Go find several pitchers who were suffering from or recovering from a life threatening ailment that also reduced upper body flexibility and mobility for most of their ML pitching career
3. Here's a hint: I'm not sure there are many

Is it really unusual for a lefty to struggle with control early in their career? Lester's been at about 4.0-4.5 BB/game for his ML career and was even around that in the minors...which seems pretty typical for all but the elite young lefties (Hamels, Liriano).

http://www.hardballt...tchers-of-2007/ is an article from THT talking about young lefties at the beginning of last season. You'll see 2 things:

1) Lester's walk ratio (though the author calls him out for it) isn't really that different than most of the guys 24 and under...it's not really that much higher than Kazmir. The two guys that really stand out are Hamels and Liriano - but if Lester were Hamels or Liriano I don't think we'd be having this chat.
2) Even the guys that are at Lester's level (Gorzelanny, for instance, who went 14-10 on an awful Pirate team) struggled with control at Lester's age but got better as they turned 25.

SSS, I know...just interesting. Guy Lester always reminds me of for some reason is Sid Fernandez - kind of the way he pushes his fastball up there. Sid also struggled until his mid 20s with control - and he was in the majors at 20.

Both guys had great W-L records with a league average ERA (Lester's 2006 if it were a full season would be remarkably similar to Sid's 1986...Sid went 16-6 for a team that won 108 games). Sid's raw numbers look better since the 1986 NL was a touch lower scoring than the 2006 AL. I suck at posting tables on this site, so wont' try...you'll just have to trust me

Sid eventually harnessed his control and settled into a prototypical really good #2 starter for a few years until Sid contracted inflamation of the abdominal fat cells...question is then, what's Kennedy's upside? Is it really more than a good #2?

[EvilEmpire]

This has been mentioned before, but it really depends on how the Twins feel about risk. Kennedy is lower ceiling, but seems more likely to realize what potential he has. Just depends on what the Twins want. The original argument (if I recall) wasn't that Kennedy was definatively better than Lester, rather, only that an argument could be made for him over Lester. In other words, that they were pretty close in value, albeit in different ways.

[941827]

Olney says the MFY are leaning toward giving the Twins Hughes for Santana.

A pivotal sticking point in the Yankees' trade talks with Minnesota about Johan Santana is the question of whether New York will include talented right-hander Phil Hughes in their offer.

And, within the internal discussions in New York's front office, there is a sense that the team is leaning toward putting Hughes in the deal.

"If they put Hughes in the deal," said one person familiar with the talks, "that could get it done for Minnesota."

Even if the Yankees and Twins build a framework for a Santana deal around Hughes, center fielder Melky Cabrera and another top minor league prospect, this would be only the first step toward completing the trade. Because Santana has a full no-trade clause, the Yankees may have to offer the two-time Cy Young Award winner a record-setting deal of something in the range of $25 million a year for six years.

[nycdoc999]

This has been mentioned before, but it really depends on how the Twins feel about risk. Kennedy is lower ceiling, but seems more likely to realize what potential he has. Just depends on what the Twins want. The original argument (if I recall) wasn't that Kennedy was definatively better than Lester, rather, only that an argument could be made for him over Lester. In other words, that they were pretty close in value, albeit in different ways.

Certainly Lester has more upside - whether or not he can acheive that is the great unknown. My only point is he doesn't, and has never had, exceptional command. If he can develop that - he'll be a top level pitcher. But that's certainly far from a given...

I think many are properly valuing Hughes - he was the best pitching prospect in all of baseball last year, and given that he is likely to fully recover from his hamstring/ankle injuries from last year and HAS demonstrated exceptional control at a young age, is likely to be a better-than-average ML starter NEXT YEAR. His upside? - probably a #1 on some teams, or a #2 on a championship-caliber team. I would argue that Hughes/Kennedy > Buchholz/Lester, but that is certainly debatable....

[nycdoc999]

Olney says the MFY are leaning toward giving the Twins Hughes for Santana.

Crap. Was hoping that wouldn't happen. I don't want the Yankees to give up Hughes in any deal for any player, though I suppose I'd relent to a Hughes-for Santana/Bedard/Haren deal straight up.....(meaning with some fill-in parts in addition)

Edited by nycdoc999, 30 November 2007 - 07:14 PM.

[P'tucket, rhymes with...]

I still think the Yankees wait though. I think it is more likely that if the Yankees and Sox refuse to budge off of current offers that either the Angels or Dodgers sweep in with something marginally better. I can't see Lester/Crisp/Lowrie getting it done when either of those two teams could offer something better without giving up too much. That might prompt the Yankees to offer Hughes, but I don't think they feel compelled to as they would if it were Boston.

I think the Yankees will cough up Hughes just as quickly if either LA team jumps in with the best offer--losing Santana to the Angels or the Dodgers rather than the Sox will be of little comfort if they go into next season without the ace that Posada said they need.

Edit--readability.

Edited by P'tucket, rhymes with..., 30 November 2007 - 07:19 PM.

[BigMike]

Olney says the MFY are leaning toward giving the Twins Hughes for Santana.

If they do put Hughes into the deal I just don't see how it doesn't get done for the Yankess, unless the Sox decide to include Buchholz.

Hughes is just an elite pitching prospect, and an elite pitching prospect is just the most precious commodity there is, and is probably worth more than 3 good prospects at various other positions.

It will be interesting to see how much more than Hughes they would have to give up. Obviously Melky seems like he'd be in the packaged. But I can't imagine them giving Hughes and Kennedy, that would just be to much (and way more than any of the other rumors have been).

[Wingack]

If they do put Hughes into the deal I just don't see how it doesn't get done for the Yankess, unless the Sox decide to include Buchholz.

Hughes is just an elite pitching prospect, and an elite pitching prospect is just the most precious commodity there is, and is probably worth more than 3 good prospects at various other positions.

It will be interesting to see how much more than Hughes they would have to give up. Obviously Melky seems like he'd be in the packaged. But I can't imagine them giving Hughes and Kennedy, that would just be to much (and way more than any of the other rumors have been).

Well, it looks as if Hughes has been added to the deal according to the link of the main board.

I hope the package is Hughes, Melky and Marquez.

I would be disappointed if Horne is added to the package.

[SoxFanSince57]

Round 1 Goes To Sox (Current Offers)
Sox--Jon Lester; Michael Bowden; Jed Lowrie; and Coco Crisp
MFY—Melky Cabrera, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy

Round 2 Goes To MFY (If MFY Offer Hughes)
MFY--Phillip Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Austin Jackson
Sox--Jon Lester; Michael Bowden; Jed Lowrie; and Coco Crisp

Round 3 Goes To ? (If Sox Offer Ellsbury)
MFY--Phillip Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Austin Jackson
Sox—Jon Lester; Michael Bowden; Jed Lowrie; and Jacoby Ellsbury

Round 4? Will either team sweeten their last offer?

[Wingack]

Round 1 Goes To Sox (Current Offers)
Sox--Jon Lester; Michael Bowden; Jed Lowrie; and Coco Crisp
MFY—Melky Cabrera, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy

Round 2 Goes To MFY (If MFY Offer Hughes)
MFY--Phillip Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Austin Jackson
Sox--Jon Lester; Michael Bowden; Jed Lowrie; and Coco Crisp

Round 3 Goes To ? (If Sox Offer Ellsbury)
MFY--Phillip Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Austin Jackson
Sox—Jon Lester; Michael Bowden; Jed Lowrie; and Jacoby Ellsbury

Round 4? Will either team sweeten their last offer?

In any case, the club finally agreed to put Hughes in a package that includes center fielder Melky Cabrera and at least one other lesser pitching prospect still to be negotiated, as of Friday night. And by doing so they believe they are the front-runners to land Santana, the two-time Cy Young winner.

According to the NYDN Austin Jackson doesn't look to be in the package which is a good thing.

Hopefully since the Yankees added what the Twins want they downgrade that package to having the third man to be someone like Marquez.

[Doctor G]

I think that may be completely wrong. You are assuming that the Yankees have the best offer on the table and that the next move is up to the Red Sox. It may be that the Sox have the best offer and the Yankees have to decide on Hughes.

You are also assuming that Hughes trumps Ellsbury. We don't know that this is true.
At least in the mind of the Twins.

Personally, I would not trade Buchholz, and if I was NY I would not trade Hughes (and I am in the dwindling minority that prefers Hughes to Chamberlain). I also personally would value Hughes over Ellsbury but there has been zero indication that the Twins feel the same way.

Finally, a lot of trades might happen. But one that is not happening is Buchholz and Ellsbury for Santana.

Ellsbury might trump Hughes simply because he would put asses inthe seats of their new stadium more than 34 days a year. It can't be dismissed that Jacoby is a native American. The Twins fanbase stretches into the Dakotas and Montana as well as Iowa and Nebraska. Ellsbury would be a highly marketable personality in this market.

[Rockin Robbin]

This deal will be done by the end of the weekend, if not sooner.

Shit.

[rembrat]

The question I want answered is “Would Ian Kennedy alone have gotten it done?" [as the centerpiece] and am I wrong to believe we have Theo and yesterday’s trade proposal [or rumor what have you] from the Sox to thank as the main reason that Phillip Hughes will wear a Twinkie jersey in 2008?

[jon abbey]

The question I want answered is “Would Ian Kennedy alone have gotten it done?" [as the centerpiece] and am I wrong to believe we have Theo and yesterday’s trade proposal [or rumor what have you] from the Sox to thank as the main reason that Phillip Hughes will wear a Twinkie jersey in 2008?

it's tough to say what would have happened otherwise (or what will happen), but I agree, and I'd even say that Boston's main objective in this was to make sure that NY had to include Hughes.

[Trotsky]

Doubt it. Theo really wants Santana... why the hell would't he? But he has a ceiling and doesn't "need" Santana.
The Yankees want Santana, but have more immediate need. Sons of SiaS had a ceiling that was a little higher, that's it.
It still makes sense for the Twins to sleep on this until the GM Meetings are over.

[Rockin Robbin]

The question I want answered is "Would Ian Kennedy alone have gotten it done?" [as the centerpiece] and am I wrong to believe we have Theo and yesterday's trade proposal [or rumor what have you] from the Sox to thank as the main reason that Phillip Hughes will wear a Twinkie jersey in 2008?

So New York acquires Johan Santana without having to give up Chamberlin, Cano, Kennedy or possibly Jackson and the pat on the back goes to Epstein because Cashman included a player in Hughes that he knew all along he would have had to use if they were ever going to make the deal? New York would have eventually given in with the Hughes demand with or without Bostons involvement. They need Santana and the fact that it took 72 hours to give in to Minnesotas demand for Hughes shows how desperate they are.

Now Epstein can focus his attention on trading Crisp for some low-level prospect that will make no impact in 2008 and finding more right-handed bats for the bench that can hit for Ellsbury and Drew next season during Santana's 5 starts against them.

Edited by Rockin Robbin, 30 November 2007 - 09:11 PM.

[Sille Skrub]

Moved the Hughes posts to the Hughes/Santana thread.

Last night to donate to the Jimmy Fund drive, btw.

[hescores21]

If Boston wants New York to pay a hefty price for Santana, they are going to have to make the first move by including Ellsbury in the deal. Cashman will not put Hughes on the table first unless he feels that Boston is a legitimate threat, and putting Ellsbury on the table would do that. Once Cashman counters this by then adding Hughes, it will be up Epstein to make the final move. Cashman is telling Epstein "You want Santana? You're going to have to give up Ellsbury and Buchholz." Epstein is telling Cashman "You want Santana? You're going to have to give up Hughes."

So now that it looks like Cashman made the first move, do you consider Boston as a legitimate threat? If in fact Theo is only trying to drive the price higher (and I think he wants Santana) then he is winning this game with Cashman. So now if Theo wants to up the offer, he can add an untouchable in Ellsbury. (maybe the Twins believe that is a better offer)

This deal will be done by the end of the weekend, if not sooner.

Not likely unless the Twins feel they can't do even better. The Yanks will add to their offer until they get their man.

[tailwind]

Can we stop with this? Jackson and Tabata will both start in AA and could concievably be up in September and starting in 09. Masterson and Bowden fall under the same category, while Lowrie is just one level ahead. One could argue that Lowrie needs more seasoning in the minors based on his decreased plate discipline up in AAA (and like with Jackson, questioning if his abilities are closer to his 07 numbers or 06 numbers). Yes, timetable-wise Lowrie is ahead of the other 4 prospects being discussed, but its not as if these other prospects are 2-3 years away. Bigger bust potential, but bigger ceiling as well.

How many good players in A-ball reach their potential and hit their ceilings? How many flame out?

How many good players in AAA reach their potential and hit their ceilings? How many flame out?

The chances for both aren't good from the start, but the latter most definitely's got the edge there. Bowden and Masterson are not the centerpieces of the deal, they're the "4th player" throw-ins, and nobody's talking about ceilings or major-league potential with them. Jackson and Tabata aren't centerpieces either, but they're being directly compared to Ellsbury and Lowrie, who are both major-league ready. Lowrie "perhaps" needing more seasoning in AAA isn't exactly the same as two kids about to enter AA for the first time. There's a big difference there. Ceiling is a nice word and all, but the bust potential for ANY player in A-ball is massive, and the chance of hitting the ceiling is extremely low. The Twins aren't looking for these kinds of players.

Edited by tailwind, 01 December 2007 - 11:03 AM.

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Now Epstein can focus his attention on trading Crisp for some low-level prospect that will make no impact in 2008 and finding more right-handed bats for the bench that can hit for Ellsbury and Drew next season during Santana's 5 starts against them.

edit: nevermind. thanks Poonani. still, I think the above is rather silly for a Sox fan to say. The Sox have had plenty of trouble against crappy lefty starters, so it's not like Santana is going to make a 5 game difference against Boston.

Edited by The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa, 01 December 2007 - 04:20 PM.

[PooNani]

He's a Sox fan. rough

[Phranchise]

This isn't Fantasyland.

This post was written to me when I said the Yankees would be able to get Johan for Cano+. The Sox now are probably going to get him for a combination of 3 lesser players. I expect an apology NDBoston.

[Phranchise]

go back to nyyfans please

This was said to me after I said that the Yanks can get Johan for Cano+Kennedy+Melky - thanks, very insightful post.

[mt8thsw9th]

What is the point of your last two posts?

[Phranchise]

What is the point of your last two posts?

You know my point, you're just trying to bust balls like the two posters I just replied on top of...

Edited by Phranchise, 04 December 2007 - 10:02 AM.

[mt8thsw9th]

You know my point, you're just trying to bust balls like the two posters I just replied on top of...

No, I don't know your point, which is why I asked. Why did you pull up a dying thread with referencing two posts from three weeks ago?

[Phranchise]

No, I don't know your point, which is why I asked. Why did you pull up a dying thread with referencing two posts from three weeks ago?

To show that I was not in fact off base when I said the Yankees would be able to get Johan for a package of Cano+.

[billy ashley]

To show that I was not in fact off base when I said the Yankees would be able to get Johan for a package of Cano+.

not to get into a intertard fight but...

While we can agree that Cano is a hell of a good baseball player is it possible that the reason that the Twins would rather have one of the two Boston deals (deals that while don't have a player as good as Cano, do have pretty good prospects like Lowrie, Lester and/or Ellsbury and/or Bowden/Masterson) that would help them over a wider range of trouble spots (SP, SS, CF). Esp. when one considers that while Cano is very talented he also is getting expensive for a team like the Twins.


We don't know how the Twins value any of these guys, we also don't know what they are willing to spend in order to retain the guys they trade for.

In short: we have no way of knowng if to the Twins Cano + (whatever) > one of the two boston deals.

If I were to speculate I'd say that Cano would have to also include a solid to good prospect(s) in order to match the Crisp+Lowrie+Lester+Masterson deal.

[8]

To show that I was not in fact off base when I said the Yankees would be able to get Johan for a package of Cano+.

Has that happened?