415 replies to this topic

[86spike]

Watching Curt execute when it matters most has finally convinced me that the Sox should do what they can to bring him back for 2008. We may be in store for another season with some naggng injuries and need for breaks and time off... but the guy earns his money when we need him to.

Tonight might have been his last Sox start. Can the Sox afford to let him walk?

[Who The Hell is Stan Papi]

Watching Curt execute when it matters most has finally convinced me that the Sox should do what they can to bring him back for 2008. We may be in store for another season with some naggng injuries and need for breaks and time off... but the guy earns his money when we need him to.

Tonight might have been his last Sox start. Can the Sox afford to let him walk?

They will and should let him walk. And yes, he just locked up the HOF. Sorry if that is too succinct, but really...

[loshjott]

The immediate future is starting the next 2 game threads, sitting in the visiting dugout in Coors Field and cheering on his team, then leading a champagne bath in the visitors clubhouse. After that, I'll think long term.

[scotian1]

Personally, I would offer him a year's extension at his present salary. With Wakefield's health a question mark I don't think it would be an unwise move.

Edited by scotian1, 25 October 2007 - 11:40 PM.

[Foulkey Reese]

They will and should let him walk. And yes, he just locked up the HOF. Sorry if that is too succinct, but really...

So tell us who replaces him in the rotation next season?

How can they possibly let him walk at this point?

He's able to give the Sox an ERA around 4.00 and clearly gets it done in the post season.

I have no problem letting him walk if there is somebody better to replace him, but I don't see that person on the market at this time.


Edit - Edited to add that I said all of that assuming that G38 is only looking for a one year deal.

Edited by Foulkey Reese, 25 October 2007 - 11:40 PM.

[Lollardfish]

So tell us who replaces him in the rotation next season?

How can they possibly let him walk at this point?

He's able to give the Sox an ERA around 4.00 and clearly gets it done in the post season.

I have no problem letting him walk if there is somebody better to replace him, but I don't see that person on the market at this time.

It's a question of, as always, years and dollars. 1 year at, say, 14 million (to give him a small raise) seems like money well spent. Most of all, it's not money that would have been earmarked for some other exciting pitching FA ... since there really aren't any! If he wants 2 years or 20 million or whatever, then it'd be a bad decision.

I suspect that 1/14 with maybe some kind of option gets it done and will get done. Not out of sentimentality, but because he's the right option as the veteran anchor of an exciting young pitching staff.

[flymrfreakjar]

They will and should let him walk. And yes, he just locked up the HOF. Sorry if that is too succinct, but really...

I disagree. Given the scarcity of quality starting pitching, having a pitcher of his caliber willing to sign a one-year deal is something that just seems silly to pass up. When pitchers significantly worse than Schill are getting multi-year 50 million dollar contracts, we are presented with a guy who not only wants to play in Boston above everywhere else, but is willing to sign short-term. He not only brings quality numbers to the table and is a legendary big-game pitcher, he also provides serious experience to what will probably be a very young rotation.

Edited by flymrfreakjar, 25 October 2007 - 11:44 PM.

[Foulkey Reese]

I disagree. Given the scarcity of quality starting pitching, having a pitcher of his caliber willing to sign a one-year deal is something that just seems silly to pass up. When pitchers significantly worse than Schill are getting multi-year 50 million dollar contracts, we are presented with a guy who not only wants to play in Boston above everywhere else, but is willing to sign short-term. He not only brings quality numbers to table and is a legendary big-game pitcher, he also provides serious experience to what will probably be a very young rotation.

Beckett
DiceK
Lester
Buchholz
??????

If he wants a 1 year deal it's an absolute no brainer to bring him back in my opinion.

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

When he announced in ST that he wanted to pitch beyond this year, he said he wanted one year at the same salary as this year. If that's still true, i think he'll be back, and he should be back.

[Rough Carrigan]

Curt said, in the postgame interview that he couldn't get loose in the 6th inning.

[ragecage]

Rob Bradford was on WEEI this afternoon and discussed some interesting comments that John Farrell had made recently. I'm paraphrasing, but basically he said when looking at the time off that Schilling and Okajima had this year, and how they responded to the rest later in the season, that the RS have kicked around the idea of having built in time off over the course of the season for certain players. This type of plan would be interesting to see play out when discussing a deal for Schilling for 2008.

[Gator's '88 MVP]

Obviously I am looking a bit through blinders right now, as I just witnessed Schill give up 1 Run & 4 Hits over 5 1/3 IP in Game 2 of the World Series.

But I think he should be resigned. The guy can flat out perform when he needs to most. And with his resurgance with location over speed, as it's been said, I think he's got more in him.

I'm not sure about the long term contract (i.e. 2 or more years), but I think if he is willing to accept a 1 year, they should go for it.

With Lester, Dice-K, Papelbon, Buchholz, possibly Hansen all part of the pitching staff next year, we could use a veteran like Schill on the staff to help these guys. Particularly with the uncertainty of Wake's health situation as well.

Besides, who else is going to start our critical game threads?

I say sign him.

Edited by Gator's '88 MVP, 25 October 2007 - 11:50 PM.

[JimD]

I'm just going to enjoy the highlights of tonight's performance, and worry about the contract details another day.

[templeUsox]

Rob Bradford was on WEEI this afternoon and discussed some interesting comments that John Farrell had made recently. I'm paraphrasing, but basically he said when looking at the time off that Schilling and Okajima had this year, and how they responded to the rest later in the season, that the RS have kicked around the idea of having built in time off over the course of the season for certain players. This type of plan would be interesting to see play out when discussing a deal for Schilling for 2008.

Haha. Can you imagine the MSM's reaction to this: So we've scrapped 4 man rotations, players can barely throw over 100 pitches nowadays, and now we have built-in vacations for pitchers during the year?!?! Interesting idea though.

Edited by templeUsox, 25 October 2007 - 11:52 PM.

[NYCSox]

Rob Bradford was on WEEI this afternoon and discussed some interesting comments that John Farrell had made recently. I'm paraphrasing, but basically he said when looking at the time off that Schilling and Okajima had this year, and how they responded to the rest later in the season, that the RS have kicked around the idea of having built in time off over the course of the season for certain players. This type of plan would be interesting to see play out when discussing a deal for Schilling for 2008.

Doesn't that almost mandate carrying six starters next season? If so, then that would increase the chances of bringing back both Schill and Wake (health permitting of course).

[Remagellan]

I say yes, but I'm a softy who leads with his heart rather than his head. But I think it's a slam dunk if there is any doubt about Wake pitching next year, because as excited as I am to see Buchholz in the rotation, I don't know if the team would be wise to count on him jumping up to 180-200 IP next year if he had problems making it through 155 this year. They are going to need to get those innings from someone, and there's no one else among the pitchers available that I would trust more than Schilling to provide those innings.

My eye is not keen enough to judge how much "stuff" a guy has left, but it does recognize when a guy is still getting batters out. Schilling is still getting outs, which to me means he still has value to this team. I'd bring him back for one more year.

[PedroSpecialK]

Doesn't that almost mandate carrying six starters next season? If so, then that would increase the chances of bringing back both Schill and Wake (health permitting of course).

And I'd want to bring back Tavarez as well as insurance. His $4m option isn't unreasonable at all.

[jmcc5400]

120 ERA + guys who excel in pressure situations aren't exactly a dime a dozen. Given the paucity of other options, the likely desire to handle Buchholz with kid gloves, and the assumption that the parties are agreeable on a one year, I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't bring him back.

- jmcc5400

[satyadaimoku]

I say yes, but I'm a softy who leads with his heart rather than his head.

I'm ok going with the heart on this one, especially if it's a one year deal. One year, $13 or $14 million isn't going to sink this franchise, we could use another veteren starter with Wake's status uncertain, and probably aren't going to find anyone better in this free agent class. Nostalgia probably plays a role too, but my head considers this a close enough call that I'm willing to defer to heart.

I also think he might be able to do better than that in the open market, which I think is going to be crazy this offseason. But come on - can you really see a glory hound like Curt finishing his career with Tampa Bay? I think both sides have a lot of intangible reasons to find middle ground on a new contract.

[jsinger121]

120 ERA + guys who excel in pressure situations aren't exactly a dime a dozen. Given the paucity of other options, the likely desire to handle Buchholz with kid gloves, and the assumption that the parties are agreeable on a one year, I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't bring him back.

- jmcc5400

I can.

1.) He is 40 years old.
2.) He was on the DL this year with shoulder issues.
3.) He has dimished stuff and has shown that he can struggle against good hitting teams.
4.) This is his last chance at a contract and he can get more than 1 year on the market and offering arb gives us the opportunity at draft picks to help restock the farm system which would not happen if he retired in a Sox jersey.


This is a team that cut ties with Pedro Martinez, Damon, Nomar, DLowe, and others. They should not be sentimental for Schilling and bring him back just for the fact of him retiring in a Sox jersey.

Edited by jsinger121, 26 October 2007 - 12:03 AM.

[MonstahsInLeft]

This was a no-brainer even before the post-season. Sign the man.

Stability and veteran leadership in the rotation next year, he is a better bet than most to be at or below a 4 ERA in the AL, he thrives on the craziness and pressure of Boston, and oh yeah...there's aren't better options out there. It makes too much sense NOT to sign him to a 1-year deal. More than a year...yeah the negatives probably outweigh the positives.

I'd be willing to bet that he takes his off-season conditioning a little more seriously this year too for his last hurrah. He's too fierce a competitor to make that mistake again.

[Ananti]

The difference is those guys were asking for long term deals. We made offers to all those guys, just not at the length they wanted.

Curt isn't looking for a long term deal.

We need to sign at least one pitcher anyway. Our rotation next year is Beckett Matsuzaka Buchholz Lester and Wakefield.

For all we know Wakefield might retire, and even if he doesn't he is going to have injury issues, and how many innings can you count on from the 2 rookies?

So tell me, name me two free agent pitchers on the market that will cost less money than Schilling that can give you what you can potentially get from Schilling?

Bring back Schilling at 10-12 million next year is a no brainer IMO.

[MonstahsInLeft]

This is a team that cut ties with Pedro Martinez, Damon, Nomar, DLowe, and others. They should not be sentimental for Schilling and bring him back just for the fact of him retiring in a Sox jersey.

Again...ONE YEAR DEAL...the reason behind the rest of the big cuts the Sox have made recently (and most FA mistakes in general) are the length of deals, not the money.

[Worst Trade Evah]

Rob Bradford was on WEEI this afternoon and discussed some interesting comments that John Farrell had made recently. I'm paraphrasing, but basically he said when looking at the time off that Schilling and Okajima had this year, and how they responded to the rest later in the season, that the RS have kicked around the idea of having built in time off over the course of the season for certain players. This type of plan would be interesting to see play out when discussing a deal for Schilling for 2008.

Bill James had a bit in an Abstract wondering why teams these days no longer have the Sunday afternoon pitcher -- the aging veteran who was good for one start a week. He felt at the time it made good sense. Not a 6 man rotation, but more like 5 man rotation with a few extensions. Maybe it's not practical these days, but Schilling seems like a good candidate for something like that, and James is around to make his case if he still thinks it. Rotating guys in to get occasional rest seems like a good plan.

Starting pitching is pretty valuable. If Schilling would come back for 1 yr/13 mill, I'd hope the Sox would take it. Would he accept that, or would he be looking for two years? Someone will likely offer him two, and probably the Sox wouldn't match that.

Edited by Worst Trade Evah, 26 October 2007 - 12:19 AM.

[Dropkick Izzy]

If he's getting "built in time off", then that one year deal better be pro-rated. Even more so if he's going to make a habit of watching the lines dry on balls through the IF. Do you not think we can get this type of production out of Lester and/or Buchholz? I do.

IMO, the money is beter spent on Lowell (assuming he's not asking for the moon) or another bat.

Edited by Dropkick Izzy, 26 October 2007 - 12:29 AM.

[Ananti]

There is little doubt in my mind that if offered 13 million he'd take it and stay even if somebody else offers him 2 years.

Schilling has never been all about the money. I think he likes pitching in Boston, and if really wants to pitch 2 more years, all he has to do is have a decent year and he'll get another year tacked on any way.

As for Lester and Buchholz, we are going to need Lester Buchholz and Schilling, because none of them are going to pitch 200 innings.

Edited by Ananti, 26 October 2007 - 12:32 AM.

[5belongstoGeorge]

One way or another, Curt Schilling's future is in Cooperstown with a B on his hat.

I can't think of a single reason he shouldn't be in a Boston uni next year. Not a one.

[templeUsox]

One way or another, Curt Schilling's future is in Cooperstown with a B on his hat.

That's as ridiculous an idea as Roger or Wade Boggs going in with a Yankees' hat on. If he goes, he's going in with a P on his hat.

[5belongstoGeorge]

That's as ridiculous an idea as Roger or Wade Boggs going in with a Yankees' hat on. If he goes, he's going in with a P on his hat.

If Boggs and/or Roger have a B on their hat in the hall it would only make me hate them more.

[Tudor Fever]

Bill James had a bit in an Abstract wondering why teams these days no longer have the Sunday afternoon pitcher -- the aging veteran who was good for one start a week. He felt at the time it made good sense.

The concept has gone the way of the Sunday double-header. Back then, you could do this without messing up your rotation.

For the ultimate example of a successful Sunday-only pitcher, check out Ted Lyons in 1942.

[Zona90]

If the Red Sox don't re-sign Curt, I would hope to see him end his career back in Arizona with RJ. He definitely could help the young Diamondbacks next year.

[Mike in CT]

I honestly don't know what to think on this one. We could go into the season hoping to have 2 studs, and let 5 guys work together to fill in the other 3 spots.


1. Beckett - maybe the best in baseball now.
2. Matsuzaka - Farrell says he expects Dice-K to have a Beckett-like improvement next year.


Buchholz - not gonna give us 200+ innings next year, but his goal should be to pitch like our 3rd best starter.
Lester (kid needs to make significant improvements, or he could be bad and kill the bullpen)
Schilling (age + health)
Wakefield (age + health)
Tavarez (team option should be exercised. Could keep him or trade him)

5 guys for 3 spots. Two of them with innings cap issues. Two of them with health/age issues. One who could go to the bullpen.

Everyone picks each other up. You use the minor league options on Buchholz and Lester to your advantage. You give the old men scheduled extended rests. You bounce Tavarez back to the bullpen after a brief time in the rotation.




I can't see the Red Sox letting Schilling go without making a good 1 year offer, unless they have plans on acquiring a very solid-great veteran.

1. Beckett
2. Matsuzaka
3. New Guy
4. Buchholz
5. Wakefield
6. Lester (maybe he's used to acquire the New Guy)
7. Tavarez type



I just can't see the Sox going into 2008 with

1. Beckett
2. Matsuzaka
3. Buchholz
4. Wakefield
5. Lester
6. Tavarez type

It's alot to ask of those back 4, given their issues.

[tailwind]

With the two kids not being able to reliably nail down 200IP and Wake being an injury/inconsistency risk, you have to sign Schilling.

How quick we are to forget the lesson Bronson Arroyo taught us. You can never have enough pitching. Ever. A one-year deal for G38 is an absolute no-brainer. Yes, he has diminished stuff, and no, he's not striking out 200 guys a year anymore, but he's still perfectly capable of a 4.0 ERA in the AL East, and that is a valuable commodity. There's a great chance he's better than all of Lester, Buchholz, and Wake next year, with Clay being the only one with the real potential to surpass him in '08.

[Rooster Crows]

This was a no-brainer even before the post-season. Sign the man.

Stability and veteran leadership in the rotation next year, he is a better bet than most to be at or below a 4 ERA in the AL, he thrives on the craziness and pressure of Boston, and oh yeah...there's aren't better options out there. It makes too much sense NOT to sign him to a 1-year deal. More than a year...yeah the negatives probably outweigh the positives.

I'd be willing to bet that he takes his off-season conditioning a little more seriously this year too for his last hurrah. He's too fierce a competitor to make that mistake again.

Well said. I'm all for resigning Curt along the lines he was suggesting during Spring Training. In addition to the above, (1) Lester has yet to play a full season at the major league level and I'm still not convinced he can maintain pitching better than Curt for the entire season, (2) Clay looks like he has it, but he's only pitched a few games at the major league level, as good as they may have been, so he is an unknown over the entire season, (3) whether Dice-K evolves from 2006 Beckett to 2007 Beckett remains to be seen, but I believe he's used to an extra's day's rest, and the flexibility to rest guys may be a good thing, (4) one of G38's strengths is his ability to adapt and learn, and he will continue improving his re-invention to be successful for another year, (5) almost all of the pitchers have indicated Schill has helped them one way or another and (6) believe in intangibles or not, there is no denying Curt's post-season record, how he earned it and the value to a contending team with young pitchers of that experience, attitude and approach.

Of course, FWIW, I also think we should resign Mike Lowell, so take that for what you will.

[Clears Cleaver]

The difference between signing Schilling and Pedro, Damon, and Lowe is that Schilling should only get one year and those other guys got 4 years. DLowe was a mistake versus signing Clement, but unless the FO thinks Curt is done, the risk of a one year deal is less.

[someoneanywhere]

That's as ridiculous an idea as Roger or Wade Boggs going in with a Yankees' hat on. If he goes, he's going in with a P on his hat.

I think you're wrong there, temp. The B will be there for the Sock Game(s) as much as for anything, since when he goes it will be on his postseason credentials. And there's no more powerful cred than that game alone.

I think some posts upthread are getting toward the working idea if they don't center it. If the plan is break both Buchholz and Lester in together, then I think you will see a variant of the six-man rotation next year. I think the case is further strengthened if one plans for a slight Beckett regression as well as a smaller than expected bounce from DiceK. Those scenarios to me are reasonable.

As for what Schilling is or isn't anymore, I think we all need to recall two factors: first, he was not in shape when he came to ST last spring. Second, he literally re-invented himself midseason. If he goes into an offseason knowing he is no longer the Old Schill, and prepares fully to be the New Schill, I think people will be surprised at what Schill at age 41 can do, even in the AL.

And all of this is rational, or at least can be defended rationally. When you count the sentimental -- and I think if the Sox win it again you have to -- they will sign him.

Edited by someoneanywhere, 26 October 2007 - 06:31 AM.

[pk1627]

I'm now looking at this issue from Schill's perspective as its clear that the Sox would love to have him back. Does Schill even need one more year in the MLB? His dominance in the post-season has secured his entry to the HoF. And clearly he'd put up better numbers in the NL.

Hopefully we close out this championship, and Schill decides to re-up to defend it.

[RSN Diaspora]

After watching last night's game, I really thought that should be it for Curt Schilling. He'll be 41 next season, he doesn't have the velocity he used to have, and he isn't the same guy who carried us in 2004. But looking at the free agent market, I don't see who we replace him with. Here's an idea of our choices, assuming no trade is made, and the pickings are slim:

2008 Free Agents

Pitcher	Age	Option
Tony Armas	30	Mutual
Kris Benson	33	Club
Paul Byrd	37	Club
Shawn Chacon	30
Roger Clemens	46
Matt Clement	33
Bartolo Colon	35
Josh Fogg	31
Casey Fossum	30
Freddy Garcia	32
Tom Glavine	42
Livan Hernandez	33*
Jason Jennings	29
Joe Kennedy	29
Byung-Hyun Kim	29
Brian Lawrence	32
Jon Lieber	38
Kyle Lohse	29
Rodrigo Lopez	32
Greg Maddux	42	Player and Club
Eric Milton	32
Tomo Ohka	32
Russ Ortiz	34
Odalis Perez	31	Club
Andy Pettitte	36	Player
Kenny Rogers	43
Curt Schilling	41
Carlos Silva	29
Julian Tavarez	35	Club
John Thomson	34
Brett Tomko	35	Mutual
Steve Trachsel	37	Club
Jeff Weaver	31
David Wells	45
Kip Wells	31
Randy Wolf	31	Club
Jamey Wright	34
Jaret Wright	32
*Yeah, I know...

[Yaz4Ever]

And I'd want to bring back Tavarez as well as insurance. His $4m option isn't unreasonable at all.

I couldn't agree more. The guy is certifiably insane at times (at least he doesn't Riverdance, though), but I have been thoroughly impressed with his attitude and enthusiasm all year - especially in the postseason when he's been the biggest cheerleader in the dugout - first to high-five, always paying attention to what's going on (not talking about tacos), etc.

Besides, who else is going to scare the hell out of Dice-K on a regular basis?

To the point of this thread - anything up to 15M for one year is fine with me. We'd likely be overpaying for the year, but I think he's earned it over the past few years - specifically in the big games.

And to echo Tailwind - as I said when Arroyo was traded for WMP - you can NEVER EVER have too much pitching.

[Steve Dillard]

I'm now looking at this issue from Schill's perspective as its clear that the Sox would love to have him back. Does Schill even need one more year in the MLB?

Per his post game classy press conference (compare with Pedro 2004), the contract will be discussed later, "the Sox know how I feel and that I want to come back."
The ball's in the Sox court. While 1/12 would be overpaying a bit, I'm all for paying for his intangibles just like we overpay for Tek's intangibles. Plus, we have a need that will cost us 8 mil (and more years) to get a comparable non-dominant, but good replacement guy e.g. Paul Byrd.

[Rooster Crows]

Just as an aside - Curt is on the back page of the NY Post today - and Jeter is playing golf.
Curt

[maceeight]

Per his post game classy press conference (compare with Pedro 2004), the contract will be discussed later, "the Sox know how I feel and that I want to come back."
The ball's in the Sox court. While 1/12 would be overpaying a bit, I'm all for paying for his intangibles just like we overpay for Tek's intangibles. Plus, we have a need that will cost us 8 mil (and more years) to get a comparable non-dominant, but good replacement guy e.g. Paul Byrd.

Well put. All year I wished that he would change his mind and hang'm up a Sox hero. I didn't think they would resign him. But if all the man wants is a one year deal I think it's become a no brainer. Beckett and Dice-K are your 1 and 2. Depending on his schoulder Wake should be back doing what Wake does. After that it's Lester and Buck who are nothing but exciting however both are very young. There are no slam dunk replacements out there and over the season someone is gonna miss starts or have problems. Schill needs to be brought back to finish this staff. It's not that he's earned it (though he has) it's that he's proven that he can still get it done, his leadership is a huge factor.

Unless he wants to ride off into the sunset BRING THE MAN BACK!

[URI]

If Boggs and/or Roger have a B on their hat in the hall it would only make me hate them more.

Boggs, who has been in the Hall for two years, is wearing a Red Sox hat on his plaque.

The concept has gone the way of the Sunday double-header. Back then, you could do this without messing up your rotation.

For the ultimate example of a successful Sunday-only pitcher, check out Ted Lyons in 1942.

James also came full circle in that same article and said it was probably a bad idea, since it would mess up the rotation for the other four pitchers.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

The real question becomes what the Sox will do if another team (say, Philly) offers Schilling a 1 year deal with an option for a second year. If that's the case I don't see this front office extending him that far due to the young pitching the club has in its system. I'm not sure if Schilling's bests interests would be served by going as a fly ball pitcher into a bandbox like Citizens, however.

Also keep in mind that the Sox may well be able to trade Coco Crisp to a team needing a CFer (Atlanta and Minnesota come to mind) and could get pitching in return, so available FA's aren't the only means of filling a possible hole in the rotation.

The hallmark of this front office has been the willingness to bite the bullet and make decisions that may be unpopular with the fanbase but ones Theo et al firmly believe are in the best interests of the club. These haven't all worked out as we well know, but let's not dismiss the possibility that the Sox hand Curt a gold watch and wish him good luck in the future. I am not saying they should automatically do this, merely that it's a possibility. After last night's performance I wouldn't mind him coming back for one more year, although perhaps with more built-in time off to keep him fresh.

This will obviously be addressed in the offseason. While it's not surprising the issue has been raised now, I think it's fair to say that perhaps a little distance from last night's start might be necessary before discussing the possibility of a deal in more rational terms. And I mean that in the nicest way possible.

[86spike]

They should not be sentimental for Schilling and bring him back just for the fact of him retiring in a Sox jersey.

who said anything about bringing him back just so he retires here? They need to bring him back so he can contribute to the team next year... that's it.

If he's getting "built in time off", then that one year deal better be pro-rated. Even more so if he's going to make a habit of watching the lines dry on balls through the IF. Do you not think we can get this type of production out of Lester and/or Buchholz? I do.

Lester and Buchholz will already be needed for two of the other 4 slots in the rotation. It's not an either/or situation.

[Lollardfish]

I really think, assuming the Sox do the likely thing and offer him 1/13 (or a little more to make it look better), that it's up to Curt. Does he want to stay in Boston, or does he want the extra ~13 million or so from a guaranteed second year of paychecks. He has a lot of money, but who doesn't need an extra 13 million! He has to weigh benefits of either decision and I doubt even he knows what he would do if faced with these two options (Boston or 2-year deal elsewhere). We've seen the lure of money take players away from cities and teams that they loved. We've seen players refuse to be lured away by money (like Wakefield's ridiculously friendly contract).

It'll be interesting.

And I think that most fans now feel that they want him back next year, but don't want the club tied up in longer-term financial obligations to an aging pitcher.

There are financial considerations as well, though, to moving away, depending on how one does it. I have always felt that Damon lost long-term revenue options by becoming the short-haired Yankee rather than the long-haired Boston icon with a lifetime of Boston earning potential ahead of him. Obviously Boras, who knows far more about revenue than any of us, felt that the extra money in the contract more than made up for that. But legacy seems important to Curt, not just for the sake of sentimentality, but in his future career in games or wherever his interests ultimately lie. A fair offer from Boston ought to keep him here.

Edited by Lollardfish, 26 October 2007 - 08:10 AM.

[sfip]

My Corsi Combover imitation

[Lucen]

I don't know if he'll be back with us next year, but if they can sign him for a year at money they're comfortable with, I'd love to have him around for a couple of reasons. The obvious ones have been emphasized by him this post season. But a secondary reason is the opportunity for Clay Buchholz to spend time with him and pick his brain. Now, I'm not suggesting that Curt is going to use the 2008 season to be a mentor for young Sox pitching, but the guy loves talking baseball and if Clay approached him, I don't see why he wouldn't end up imparting wisdom, simply by talking with him.

If he can impart even a fraction of his work ethic and preparation on Clay, it could pay dividends during his career. The kid is talented as hell. A full season spent watching Curt, being around Curt and talking with him can only help.

I know this is slightly off topic, but I'd also love to see the Sox bring Clement back on the cheap (I don't imagine big money deals will be rolling in for him) as he could provide some great depth for the starting rotation. But I digress. I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to discuss that in the off season in a multitude of threads.

[Youks Baltic Roots]

Three things:

First, I don't think you can compare the Nomar-Lowe-Pedro etc. situations to this one - if Shill takes a one-year contract, that was something the others simply wouldn't accept.

Second, with young pitchers like Beckett, Dice-K, Buchholz and Lester on the staff (and yes Beckett is still young), having a vet like Schill out there with them is worth a lot more than merely what his ERA and WHIP indicate.

Third, Schilling said to us - and by us I mean specifically SoSH - that he would love to come here and be a part of something special. Since then the Red Sox have been in the playoffs three out of four years, we have overcome the vaunted Yankees in a truly spirit-crushing come-from-behind victory, we have one World Series victory and are playing in the Series again this year.

If you don't think any of this should matter, you really aren't enjoying being a fan during an incredible period of Red Sox history. I'm not going to over-simplify it and say it is only because he came, but it has been fun to be a Red Sox fan since he came. And I don't think this is merely a ball-washing - he should take heat like any other player if he screws up, and he should be the first to admit he is not the same pitcher he once was. But he should be taking that heat while wearing a Red Sox uniform.

[twothousandone]

As a pitcher for the regular season, he's got to be more valuable as Ted Lilly, right? Lilly's at $6 million, so does that mean Schilling is worth at least $8 million? if so, I think his abilities to handle the post-season pressure (SSS be damned) is worth another $2 million for a contender. So, now, how much is it worth to have a once upon a time phenom, who had a rocky first few years in the majors, sitting next to Buchholz, three games a week -- comment on Buchholz's starts, thinking along with him during the game, suggesting off-day exercises?

As I remember it (it was a long time ago) Clemens didn't have nor did he need anything like that. Seaver laughed when he was asked how it could help Clemens. Nonetheless, how about a $3 million on-the-job training tab? That adds up to $13 million.