804 replies to this topic

[Rudi Fingers]

Part of this morning's story on Game 5 of the NLCS was sig-worthy.

[joyofsox]

John Marzano Olympic Hero, on 20 October 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:

"a Fleetwood Mac change-up that would go its own way."

Just an awesome description. Tremendously beautiful in its simplicity.

I think it sounds more like a forced McCarver pun, the last straw that finally forces me to watch the rest of the game in silence.

[Spud]

joyofsox, on 22 October 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

I think it sounds more like a forced McCarver pun, the last straw that finally forces me to watch the rest of the game in silence.

[Spud]

joyofsox, on 22 October 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

I think it sounds more like a forced McCarver pun, the last straw that finally forces me to watch the rest of the game in silence.

The big difference is that a bad pun is lost in the brillance of Joe's repertoire, while the same thing is the peak of McCarver's performance even on a good day.

[joyofsox]

That is true. Plus Joe does not try to shoehorn 25 of them into every post.

I loved describing Thames swinging "like a guy being attacked by bees".

[MentalDisabldLst]

JimBoSox9, on 21 October 2010 - 12:36 PM, said:

Ya know, I was lucky enough to be exposed relatively early on to Pos before he was a national writer due to going to college in Missouri. The link he threw up going back to a 2003 column about Tony Pena got me thinking about how his run of sustained excellence goes back longer than I consciously recognized. Sportswriters, like comedians, have a limited shelf life - there's too much "back in my day" built into sports for writers to stay cutting-edge forever. When I think about sportswriters who I have considered "must-read" in my life, Pos has held that status longer than any of them.

There's always a lot of talk in here about Pos being the best in the biz right now. To wit I reply, it's time to wonder if that isn't going far enough.

Joe Posnanski - best of all time?

I think Tom Boswell still has a longer sustained run of excellence. I'll never forget his pieces after the Sox' 2004 run.

Posnanski has many lyrical writers of the past 100 years to compete with for any historical title. But for right now, he "gets" modern statistics, he understands the themes of the game, and he turns a phrase, all as well as anyone. That ought to be enough. Don't you think Poz, of all people, would agree we're far too over-eager to label something the "greatest ever", as if it validates our choice to spend time watching or thinking about it? Let Posnanski be Posnanski, the historians will debate the rest later.

[johnmd20]

MentalDisabldLst, on 25 October 2010 - 12:13 AM, said:

I think Tom Boswell still has a longer sustained run of excellence. I'll never forget his pieces after the Sox' 2004 run.

Posnanski has many lyrical writers of the past 100 years to compete with for any historical title. But for right now, he "gets" modern statistics, he understands the themes of the game, and he turns a phrase, all as well as anyone. That ought to be enough. Don't you think Poz, of all people, would agree we're far too over-eager to label something the "greatest ever", as if it validates our choice to spend time watching or thinking about it? Let Posnanski be Posnanski, the historians will debate the rest later.

He might not be the GOAT as of today, but I feel he is definitely the best sportswriter working right now, his volume is really out of this world, especially considering most of what he writes is between amazing and incredible. It's 3-5 really awesome pieces every single week. He's got more amazing columns written in the last 6 weeks than Simmons has had since 2008.

He's late 90's Pedro, to be sure, and now we'll see if he can keep it going.

[Dehere]

johnmd20, on 25 October 2010 - 07:15 AM, said:

<BR>He might not be the GOAT as of today, but I feel he is definitely the best sportswriter working right now, his volume is really out of this world, especially considering most of what he writes is between amazing and incredible.&nbsp;&nbsp;It's 3-5 really awesome pieces every single week.&nbsp;&nbsp;He's got more amazing columns written in the last 6 weeks than Simmons has had since 2008.<BR><BR>He's late 90's Pedro, to be sure, and now we'll see if he can keep it going.<BR>

<BR><BR>He's by far the best sportswriter working today, and he's mastered the internet era in a way that nobody else really has.&nbsp;Pos actually maintains an open,&nbsp;running dialogue with his blog readers and responds to some of the more critical/insightful comments. He's figured out that sportswriting can't just be a monologue anymore and I think his readers respect him all the more for it. I know I do.<BR>

[Bdanahy14]

Dehere, on 20 October 2010 - 02:42 PM, said:

He's playing in a different league than everybody else who writes about sports for a living.

Yeah, I am late to this party - but my facebook page is really just an ongoing link to the latest JoePos article. Some writers inspire me to write, make me want to do more, be better... Joe, well Joe inspires me not to write, because any meager attempt for me to scribble words together would take away space that he should probably fill.

And the content never stops, he is relentless in his brilliance.

I was hooked as soon as I read his Herschel Walker article way back, but he never slows down.

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Hopefully everyone who enjoys Joe Pos' work is following him as he chronicles this World Series. He is absolutely the first read for me the morning after each game. No hype, little hyperbole and little in the way of framing each game with heroes and anatognists. Just a few great turns of phrase and some fantastic game analysis.

[Skeesix]

He really knows how to make you feel like you missed out on something big if you haven't really been watching the series

http://sportsillustr...me.5/index.html

[johnmd20]

Skeesix, on 02 November 2010 - 04:43 PM, said:

He really knows how to make you feel like you missed out on something big if you haven't really been watching the series

http://sportsillustr...me.5/index.html

Great column, Pos is beyond ridiculously good. I learned in the column that Matt Cain didn't allow an earned run in the Post Season. WOW! That's pretty effin' good Mr. Cain.

[Stevie1der]

Like everyone else, all I can do is heap praise on Posnanski for a really great retrospective take on the series. Even the part of the article covering the well worn story about the Giants as a team of cast-offs and underdogs didn't seem as trite or tired as it has in other writers' hands. The greatest comment you can give about his writing is that in a forum dedicated to thoughtful analysis and commentary, this thread should pretty much be titled The Joe Posnanski Sploogefest, and it would be well warranted.

[PC Drunken Friar]

I can honestly say that I think Posnanski has now entered my Pantheon of best-writers that I have come across...

http://joeposnanski....11/promise.html

[HoyaSoxa]

PC Drunken Friar, on 11 November 2010 - 01:22 PM, said:

I can honestly say that I think Posnanski has now entered my Pantheon of best-writers that I have come across...

http://joeposnanski....11/promise.html

That was remarkable. Simply a must-read if you care about Springsteen, or music, or fathers and sons, or the working class, or just great writing. Bravo, Joe.

[Seabass177]

He is, quite simply, the best that I've ever read. He's humble and genuine, two traits that are generally lacking amongst sportswriters, which makes him so wonderfully refreshing.

[Dehere]

The blog post today....wow. Breathtaking. The best piece I have ever read by Posnanski and he's been my favorite writer for several years so that's saying something.

[johnmd20]

Seabass177, on 11 November 2010 - 02:17 PM, said:

He is, quite simply, the best that I've ever read. He's humble and genuine, two traits that are generally lacking amongst sportswriters, which makes him so wonderfully refreshing.

And his run at GOAT continues apace. Joe just isn't a great sportswriter, he's a great writer period. In my opinion, he is the best of all time,(or he ultimately will be) even if I've only been reading him for 3 years. He has scores of columns that I remember and still make me think and feel. Nobody else has 5. And many of those columns have nothing to do with sports.

[Mystic Merlin]

Um, holy shit.

[PC Drunken Friar]

It has gotten to the point where it is sort of ridiculous to me how MUCH better he is than everybody else...and we aren't just talking the past year or so...his following has gotten bigger but he has remained consistent AND he writes so much more than most to boot!

It is a shame that he probably isn't recognized outside of the sports genre, b/c, yes, I think he is that good to where he is the best writer out there, not just sportswriter.

And not that anyone here hasn't heard of it, but if you havent read "The Soul of Baseball", do it...it is a very short and easy read, but, my god, what a book.

[Rooster Crows]

PC Drunken Friar, on 11 November 2010 - 01:22 PM, said:

I can honestly say that I think Posnanski has now entered my Pantheon of best-writers that I have come across...

http://joeposnanski....11/promise.html

Thanks for that - haven't had time to keep up with him for a while. This hit home on many levels, and I agree, the writing is superb.

[Bdanahy14]

HoyaSoxa, on 11 November 2010 - 01:57 PM, said:

That was remarkable. Simply a must-read if you care about Springsteen, or music, or fathers and sons, or the working class, or just great writing. Bravo, Joe.

It really was one of the best reads I have ever had the pleasure to come across... everything about it was just incredible, no one writes with that much heart. I don't know what else to say - he is growing into one of my favorites writers of all time. Period.

Edited by Bdanahy14, 12 November 2010 - 12:00 PM.

[drleather2001]

Writing about music is hard. Writing about life and family without sounding like a self-obsessed ass is hard. Writing about sports is hard. He does all three well.

I'm curious what non-Springsteen fans think of posts like "The Promise." For a fan such as myself, it's great. But do people who are indifferent, or even hostile, to Springsteen find themselves enjoying them as much, or even re-thinking their stance on The Boss?

[Huntington Avenue Grounds]

drleather2001, on 12 November 2010 - 12:11 PM, said:

I'm curious what non-Springsteen fans think of posts like "The Promise." For a fan such as myself, it's great. But do people who are indifferent, or even hostile, to Springsteen find themselves enjoying them as much, or even re-thinking their stance on The Boss?

Not to derail the thread but a buddy of mine, who was no Springsteen fan (came of age during "Born in the USA" Bruce) saw the HBO doc "Darkness of the Edge of Town" and came away with a lot of respect and appreciation of his depth and talent as an artist. I sent him this Joe Pos article to look over as it adds to that understanding, IMO.

[CJM]

That's a lovely and earnest piece of writing. He avoids a number of traps that seem to snare good, current non-fiction writers. He doesn't succumb to loving his own rhetoric and analysis like Klosterman. He doesn't succumb to mawkishness like Simmons. He puts in more heart than Gladwell (who, admittedly, has a different end goal than the others). He doesn't belabor or force the connections between sports/art/life like any huge number of writers out there (such as Ebert, much as I love him). Joe consistently writes heartfelt prose that combines a certain grace in style and a certain uniqueness of angle, and those three elements are exceptionally tricky to meld together.

I wouldn't put him in the tip-top tier of non-fiction prose writers: your James Woods, Joan Didions, or David Foster Wallaces. But he's rising above the boundaries of sports journalism and securing himself a spot at the head of that second tier.

EDIT: And this comes from someone who has never felt Springsteen. I recognize his abilities and understand the love; he just doesn't inspire a gut-level upswelling of emotion in me like he does in many. Joe Pos' post doesn't make me rethink my stance on The Boss so much as reaffirm the reasons people seem to love him: his plainspoken emotion, his ability to capture a certain blue-collar sensibility, his lyrical touch.

Edited by CJM, 12 November 2010 - 01:09 PM.

[Foulkey Reese]

God that was good writing.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Quote

I'm curious what non-Springsteen fans think of posts like "The Promise." For a fan such as myself, it's great. But do people who are indifferent, or even hostile, to Springsteen find themselves enjoying them as much, or even re-thinking their stance on The Boss?

I am not a Springsteen fan at all, I mean I understand why people love him and I'm impressed with his workmanship, but I never really connected with him at all. However, I thought that this was an awesome piece. Probably the best that I've read (by any author) all year. It was tremendous, and when I saw his tweet earlier yesterday that he was writing about Springsteen I rolled my eyes.

Awesome.

[Average Reds]

drleather2001, on 12 November 2010 - 12:11 PM, said:

Writing about music is hard. Writing about life and family without sounding like a self-obsessed ass is hard. Writing about sports is hard. He does all three well.

I'm curious what non-Springsteen fans think of posts like "The Promise." For a fan such as myself, it's great. But do people who are indifferent, or even hostile, to Springsteen find themselves enjoying them as much, or even re-thinking their stance on The Boss?

Going to second the sentiment behind JMOH's post.

I'm mostly indifferent to Springsteen, but it would have been accurate to say that I was actively hostile to him in the 70s because I thought he was all hype and no substance. (This was based completely on the press he received after "Born to Run" and my judgment of the people who were into Springsteen.) This article has made me re-think my stance on Springsteen to the point where I'll probably pick up the CDs in question and lend them a sympathetic ear as I evaluate him fairly for the first time 30+ years later.

It's easy to lapse into sentimentality, cliches and melodrama when writing about our family, our youth and/or the music that has moved us in our lives. The fact that he was able to tackle these with confidence and clarity is very impressive. Just an outstanding piece of writing.

Edited by Average Reds, 12 November 2010 - 04:10 PM.

[Bdanahy14]

Pos with a nice article on the setup man: http://joeposnanski....-setup-man.html

Talks about Boston a bit at the end.

I think he is right about the importance of the closer role from a player ambition standpoint. And I don't think that the closer by committee can necessarily work in every clubhouse... but I do think teams can start to shift focus to the Setup man...

[Bdanahy14]

Joe is posting a series of essays spurred from conversations he and Bill James had on an 8 hour round trip drive from Kansas City to St Louis. So far one is up:

The Car Ride Essays

Edited by Bdanahy14, 01 December 2010 - 12:22 PM.

[nattysez]

Others likely will disagree, but I think the beauty of this throwaway sentence* -- including the mood it evokes, the story it tells in only a few words, etc. -- demonstrates the extent of Posnanski's skills.

Quote

I was driving there in the rain and Bill drove home as it flurried snow and we were just talking about stuff and none of the conversation was meant for the record.

*I've fixed a typo in this sentence as it appears on his blog.

[nattysez]

Also, this article on Pioli is very good: http://sportsillustr...79410/index.htm

This has a real "Frank Sinatra Has a Cold" feel to it -- an excellent job profiling someone who doesn't really want to be profiled.

[weeba]

His retro diary of a trip to NYC:

http://joeposnanski....travel-day.html

Quote

3:30 p.m.: It is snowing just outside of Pittsburgh, though the roads are not too slick yet. I am talking to my wife, Margo, and I do not mention the snow because she will have a panic attack. In the background, the woman is talking on her phone in Chinese. She is undoubtedly telling someone that she is 85% certain that I am not an axe murderer. Or she could be telling someone that she have found her next axe-murder victim. I do not speak Chinese.

[lostjumper]

weeba, on 03 December 2010 - 11:39 AM, said:

His retro diary of a trip to NYC:
http://joeposnanski....travel-day.html

The 5th comment down:

Quote

Anonymous said...
Why couldn't this have happened to Peter King? You deserve so much better, Joe.

Couldn't agree more.

Edited by lostjumper, 03 December 2010 - 03:03 PM.

[johnmd20]

weeba, on 03 December 2010 - 11:39 AM, said:

His retro diary of a trip to NYC:

http://joeposnanski....travel-day.html

Awesome column. He is right about Pennsylvania, it is the never ending east to west state.

And he should have made the left.

[Domer]

Great stuff as usual, but as someone who has driven east to west across Nebraska (and back again) I cannot agree with his choice for "longest bleeping state in America." And is the Holland Tunnel seriously $8? Wow.

[drleather2001]

Domer, on 03 December 2010 - 10:48 PM, said:

Great stuff as usual, but as someone who has driven east to west across Nebraska (and back again) I cannot agree with his choice for "longest bleeping state in America." And is the Holland Tunnel seriously $8? Wow.

I know it's just a blog and not an article, so it's not a big deal, but this entry was like a giant Peter King Preferred Guest episode. Not trying to piss on the cornflakes, but I thought it was cliched.

Also, PA is worse to drive across than Nebraska because the traffic and highways are worse. All those plains states may be dull, but the driving is really easy.

[BucketOBalls]

drleather2001, on 04 December 2010 - 11:37 AM, said:

I know it's just a blog and not an article, so it's not a big deal, but this entry was like a giant Peter King Preferred Guest episode. Not trying to piss on the cornflakes, but I thought it was cliched.

Also, PA is worse to drive across than Nebraska because the traffic and highways are worse. All those plains states may be dull, but the driving is really easy.

It's not something he normally does, and it seems like it was odd enough that it was actually entertaining. Sort of like a sportswriter version of Planes, Trains and Automobiles. Not to long, and entertaining. And fine as long as it doesn't happen to often.

He actually missed the main reason Pennsylvania is a terrible state to drive across,

When their highway department has to repair 20 miles of highway what they do is:

1)Make those 20 miles of highway 1 lane
2)Work on 200 feet of highway
3)Move the 200 feet and side that is 1 lane as needed
4)Remove all the cones when the entire job is done.

[Domer]

Joe Posnanski's annual "My God, what did we do to deserve this?" column about the Royals came early this year. This paragraph does well to capture their futility.

Quote

Matt over at Fangraphs pointed this out, but it’s worth pointing out again. The three least valuable players by FanGraphs WAR from 2008 through 2010 are Jose Guillen, Yuniesky Betancourt and Jeff Francoeur. Dayton Moore signed the first to the richest everyday player contract in Royals history, traded for the second when the Mariners were at their wits’ end and just signed the third to a $2.5 million contract.* The man knows how to acquire ludicrously bad hitters.

*Interesting, I think, that the three worst in Baseball Reference WAR are Jeff Francoeur, Mark Teahen and Jose Guillen — also three Royals, though it’s not quite the same because Moore inherited Teahen. Francoeur is actually sixth on the worst list, ahead of Ryan Spillborghs and Wes Helms.

[BucketOBalls]

Poz on the Murray Chass saga.

If Posnanski is willing to write that about you...wow.

[TheGazelle]

BucketOBalls, on 13 December 2010 - 03:27 PM, said:

Poz on the Murray Chass saga.

If Posnanski is willing to write that about you...wow.

The most enjoyable part of that article (and Verducci's) is how they derisively refer to him as "blogger Chass" and so forth. From the Chass's "blog:"

Quote

This is a site for baseball columns, not for baseball blogs. The proprietor of the site is not a fan of blogs. He made that abundantly clear on a radio show with Charley Steiner when Steiner asked him what he thought of blogs and he replied, “I hate blogs.” He later heartily applauded Buzz Bissinger when the best-selling author denounced bloggers on a Bob Costas HBO show

http://www.murraychass.com/?page_id=23

[Worst Trade Evah]

I just spent some time at Joe Blogs -- and this guy is just a ridiculously, effortlessly great writer. He's very clearly in the GOAT conversation for me -- it's just him and Bill James as far as I'm concerned. I like Boswell and a few others, but I don't remember ever reading column after column from a guy and thinking Man, what a great read, like I do with Pos. He's beyond a great sportswriter. Read his bit on reading Harry Potter to his daughter. He's just a great, great writer.

I feel like every time I visit his site I come away with something wonderful.

[JKelley34]

I can't imagine that Joe had this one sitting in the hopper, which once again shows to me how hes the best in the business right now:

RIP Bob Feller

[Dehere]

When I read Joe I always get the feeling that I'm reading the work of somebody who believes he has something to learn from every person he meets and every experience he encounters. There seems to be a fundamental humility that informs all of his writing. Today's piece on Bob Feller is a good example. Here's a guy that so many people - including me at one time - have been quick to dismiss as a curmudgeon, a blowhard, or worse a flat-out racist, and yet Joe is able to go deeper to find the things that are honorable without whitewashing the disagreeable things that others focus on.

So many prominent sportswriters seem to work from a fundamental premise that they know better. They always have a quick opinion or a snide comment; everyone else is an idiot; they're always right. Pos seems like the one guy in the business who is always coming from a premise that maybe he doesn't know better, maybe his preconceptions are wrong, and that approach seems to always take him to places that are more intersting and more true than the places where lesser writers end up. He just seems like a guy who has never stopped trying to figure life out, and that sets him apart from other people who have become successful by telling you as loudly as possible that they know it all already. I will tell you in all honesty that reading Pos every day for the last several years has made me try to be less presumptive and more open-minded about the way I approach certain situations. While he's undoubtedly a great craftsman, I think it's that fundamental humility and searching nature that make him by far the best in the business.

[Avory]

Dehere, that was a Poz-worthy assessment of Posnanski, one I share, one I would have been proud to write. Fine job.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Another great article by Poz, no surprise. This one about Jose Canseco.

[Rough Carrigan]

Dehere, on 16 December 2010 - 12:38 PM, said:

When I read Joe I always get the feeling that I'm reading the work of somebody who believes he has something to learn from every person he meets and every experience he encounters. There seems to be a fundamental humility that informs all of his writing. Today's piece on Bob Feller is a good example. Here's a guy that so many people - including me at one time - have been quick to dismiss as a curmudgeon, a blowhard, or worse a flat-out racist, and yet Joe is able to go deeper to find the things that are honorable without whitewashing the disagreeable things that others focus on.

So many prominent sportswriters seem to work from a fundamental premise that they know better. They always have a quick opinion or a snide comment; everyone else is an idiot; they're always right. Pos seems like the one guy in the business who is always coming from a premise that maybe he doesn't know better, maybe his preconceptions are wrong, and that approach seems to always take him to places that are more intersting and more true than the places where lesser writers end up. He just seems like a guy who has never stopped trying to figure life out, and that sets him apart from other people who have become successful by telling you as loudly as possible that they know it all already. I will tell you in all honesty that reading Pos every day for the last several years has made me try to be less presumptive and more open-minded about the way I approach certain situations. While he's undoubtedly a great craftsman, I think it's that fundamental humility and searching nature that make him by far the best in the business.

This is *extremely* well said.
I've been trying, after each successive time reading another terrific Poz column to figure out what it is that he does that other columnists don't. And I think you've hit on it. Even when considering a subject about which he obviously has preconceptions, Poz seems to step back and allow himself to look at things again.

[JimD]

Looking forward to reading Joe's take after seeing local hero Greinke traded away.

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I've just spent the better part of an afternoon reading the Greinke, Harry Potter, Feller and Canseco pieces and I agree with the other posters here in that they are required if you are fan. In fact, each one is outstanding but they are all very different. The Potter piece in particular was poignant, especially if you have ever done something regularly with your children when they were young. And as Pos says at the start of his Social Network piece, it isn't really about Harry Potter...

The thing about Posnanski's articles that sets them apart is that he isn't following a typical narrative. In his sometimes almost dry way, he dissects his subjects layer by layer looking for something deeper. There are no pure villains in Posnanski's eyes just as there are no true heroes. Instead he presents humanity in all of its simple and often complex forms.

Putting aside the fact that he is a "baseball writer" I am wracking my brain trying to think of contemporary writers or artists who have produced works with the same kind of consistent quality as Posnanski. Watterson maybe? Cormac McCarthy?

Its hard because even the best seem to have flat spots but each Pos piece that I've read is excellent in a seemingly effortless way. I wonder if the people who edit and read SI truly understand what it is they have here.

...or what Dehere said so elegantly above....

Edited by DeJesus Built My Hotrod, 19 December 2010 - 10:05 PM.

[drleather2001]

I think Heyman calls out Joe Pos in his anti-Blyleven Hall piece (which is pretty crappy. His point amounts to "I don't go by numbers. But my numbers are better than yours." To wit, he supports Jack Morris "You just had to be there" over Blyleven, and then goes on to point to Morris' fewer career wins as a key reason for his support.)

Quote

One Blyleven Internet supporter is such a zealot that he has guessed as to the motives for the non-support, and even on occasion taken to outing non-supporters or ridiculing them, perhaps in an attempt at persuasion.

Edited by drleather2001, 20 December 2010 - 03:38 PM.