591 replies to this topic

[njingles3]

The Niners are a team to watch this year - and not only because they owe the Pats their 2008 first round pick. They finished 7-9 last year and have some young but talented players at key offensive (Smith, Gore, Davis and rookie Joe Staley) and defensive positions (Willis at MLB). The NFC West is a crapshoot, Seattle having won 3 titles in a row despite a 9-7 record last year. If Gore continues to prove he can carry the load and Smith improves upon the strides he made last season, the Niners could improve upon their '06 season.

The defense should improve with the addition of Clements and Willis, but there are still a lot of questions about a D that gave up more points than anyone last season (412 - more than double the Ravens' #1 scoring defense). Obviously this has to improve if they want to go anywhere.

It starts tonight at home against the Cardinals, another young team with questions on defense. It should be fun to watch this 2nd game of the MNF doubleheader.

I think they'll go 8-8 (3-3 vs NFC West, 1-3 vs AFC North, 4-2 rest of NFC). In 2006, teams 13-20 finished 8-8. In the NFC, this could be good enough for a playoff spot. The Patriots extra 2008 1st rounder from SF could realistically be as high as 10 or as low as 20. In all likelihood it will be a better pick than the one the Pats traded away to get it. I hate to root against an exciting young team like SF, but at least this year Pats fans are obligated to hope they lose.

[The Big Red Kahuna]

Completely forgot that the Patriots Jets get the SF #1...

[Lose Remerswaal]

Cardinals had it in the bag, but failure to fall on a fumble in the end zone in the final minute gave the 49ers an extra shot at the winning TD and they made it.

If the league takes away a #1 for the filming issue, I'd expect it to be the Pat's own #1, not one received in a trade.

And I'd expect the punishment to be a #3 or #4 at worst, unless there were prior warnings.

[The Big Red Kahuna]

I was joking..................

[BigSoxFan]

Man, that game was annoying last night. My hope is for the Niners' pick to fall in the 15-20 range at least. This will be a pretty deep draft.

[Foxy42]

I am sure the Pats are perfectly happy with the pick falling in the 15 - 20 range. They are on record as saying that this is where the most value is vs having to pay an unproven top 12 pick a load of gauranteed money...

[Kitchkinet]

The 49ers played a terrible game and got lucky on the final drive. Only 92 yards rushing and 126 yards passing, most on the final drive. They got sacked 3 times and lost a fumble. Their saving graces were the final drive and the second interceptions of Matt Leinart to abort any chance for the Cards to tie.

There's really only one thing to say about it:

SAME OLD CARDINALS! *clap clap clap-clap-clap* SAME OLD CARDINALS! *clap clap clap-clap-clap*

The difference, of course, is that Dennis Green isn't here to claim that the 49ers are who they thought they were. And I don't think anybody's ready to crown their ass.

[njingles3]

I am sure the Pats are perfectly happy with the pick falling in the 15 - 20 range. They are on record as saying that this is where the most value is vs having to pay an unproven top 12 pick a load of gauranteed money...

See Jamarcus Russell's fat contract earned because of a big arm and one good year of college football. I would, however, like the pick to be closer to 10-15 which is definitely possible after watching that team last night and looking at their schedule. The 10-15 range is good because there is always a player available that is the best at his position (and I don't mean a guard or punt returner). Patrick Willis, every Pats fan's dream scenario last year and a guy who figures to have a humongous impact in his rookie season, was the 11th pick by the Niners (7-9). If they could repeat that draft position I would be happy.

BB hasn't picked up any LBs in the draft because the top ones have always been taken and the value wasn't there to reach for the next tier (could've been Beason this year had they not traded the pick). If they're anywhere within a few spots of 15 they could be in really good shape for finally taking a LB. Of course BB would take a stud at another position just as quickly if he didn't like who was available.

The Niners will be 'dogs in their next four games so we should be able to start enjoying these results more than last night.

[Bucknahs Bum Ankle]

I am sure the Pats are perfectly happy with the pick falling in the 15 - 20 range. They are on record as saying that this is where the most value is vs having to pay an unproven top 12 pick a load of gauranteed money...

I bet they'd be perfectly happier with a top ten pick that they could trade for 2 later 1st round picks.

[BigSoxFan]

San Fran gets lucky again. They suck. They'll lose some games this year, especially when they play the real conference.

[BigMike]

San Fran gets lucky again. They suck. They'll lose some games this year, especially when they play the real conference.

They'll lose some game, no doubt, but unless they get absolutely crushed by injuries it won't be a top 10 pick, and they proabably have already won to many to be in contention for #1 (not like that was ever a real possibility)

[Commander Shears]

Sep 10 Arizona W 20-17
Sep 16 at St. Louis W 17-16
Sep 23 at Pittsburgh
Sep 30 Seattle
Oct 7 Baltimore
BYE WEEK
Oct 21 at NY Giants
Oct 28 New Orleans
Nov 4 at Atlanta
Nov 12 at Seattle
Nov 18 St. Louis
Nov 25 at Arizona
Dec 2 at Carolina
Dec 9 Minnesota
Dec 15 Cincinnati
Dec 23 Tampa Bay
Dec 30 at Cleveland

The losses are coming (especially the next couple of weeks), but that is hardly a tough schedule. Let's hope Pace gets healthy, Cincy is in the playoff hunt, and right versions of the schizo teams (NYG, TB, etc) show up.

[SoxScout]

Wooo...

The San Francisco 49ers suffered their first major injury blow of the season Thursday when they learned linebacker Manny Lawson was lost for the season because of a torn ACL.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3029152

(Maybe not 'wooo', hate to see a good young player hurt... but you know what I mean.)

[Commander Shears]

Click clack?

Niners' Davis likely out two weeks

Just when Vernon Davis finally became a key part of the San Francisco 49ers' offense, the tight end is headed back to the sideline.

Davis probably will miss the 49ers' next two games with a sprained ligament in his right knee after getting hurt during San Francisco's 37-16 loss at Pittsburgh. Last year's No. 6 overall draft pick caught four passes for 56 yards against the Steelers just a few days after asking coach Mike Nolan how he could be more involved in the Niners' struggling offense.

2-3 going into the bye is looking highly plausible.

[SoxScout]

JACKPOT

Though a miracle could happen, it is looking like Smith will be out at least several weeks (and that's conservative). In fact, don't be surprised if the 49ers reach out to their rivals just down road and over a bridge or two, as Oakland has one of the few realistically tradable and viable backups in Andrew Walter.

http://www.sportslin.../story/10381806

"I've had maybe 10 separated shoulders," said Trent Dilfer, who came on to play quarterback Sunday after Smith's injury. "And I think with all but one, I've played the next week. But of course, I don't know how bad this one was."

It was bad. Very bad. Smith's throwing mechanism wasn't so much separated as it was squashed and disintegrated when the 308 pounds of Seattle's Rocky Bernard landed on top of Smith and jammed his right shoulder directly into the ground.

"I told him, 'I need to see you throw the ball,' " Dilfer said. "And when he picked one up and threw one really weak pass, I knew. I put on my helmet and started warming up.

Coach Mike Nolan said he would not know how long Smith is out until the MRI exams and other medical reports are completed Monday morning. But when asked if Smith will start next week against Baltimore, Nolan conceded: "Probably not."

http://origin.mercur...news/ci_7046936

Edited by SoxScout, 30 September 2007 - 10:39 PM.

[gaelgirl]

Jackpot? Fuck you. That's bullshit and bush league. I don't think you'd take too kindly to someone cheering a multi-week Tom Brady injury.

[Maalox]

Jackpot? Fuck you. That's bullshit and bush league. I don't think you'd take too kindly to someone cheering a multi-week Tom Brady injury.

I apologize for that. He gets a little exuberant sometimes.

[Wills Eeks]

Don't get your pantyhose in a bunch, hon.
It's all in good fun.
He's just a marginal QB at best,
so give it a rest.
Not to be rude,
but even with Alex Smith, SF 49ers are no good.


Regards,
The Rhyming Sexist

[SoxScout]

He has a separated shoulder, it's not like he tore it up or ripped his ACL. You have the Ravens and then a BYE week. You can probably still win next week, hopefully not though.

All offseason it was "if Gore or Smith get hurt, jackpot." I'm not shedding a tear for Smith or 49er fans. Brady has played the last two years with a bum shoulder! [/Belichick]

Edited by SoxScout, 30 September 2007 - 10:58 PM.

[Rough Carrigan]

Soxscout. That reaction was not only unseemly. It also seems dumb, to me. Has Alex Smith played at a level that someone wanting the 49ers to lose should want him out of the game?

[SoxScout]

No, he has been terrible, throwing to a pathetic core of receivers. But, he plays a violent game and he got hurt. That means Dilfer had to play. I don't think you can describe how he looked today as playing. Smith would be a better option at QB even if he couldn't throw at all because of his mobility.

He is going to miss one game, and now I'd say the 9ers go from a slight favorite to a slight underdog. I'll be happy if they lose no matter who is at QB.

[bball831]

Smith's MRI shows serious damage

A team source has told ESPN's Ed Werder that San Francisco 49ers starting quarterback Alex Smith is seeking a second opinion from Dr. James Andrews after preliminary MRI results indicated he appears to have suffered a serious injury to tendons in his right shoulder in Sunday's game.

If the diagnosis performed at Stanford is confirmed by Andrews, the source said that it is expected Smith would opt to have corrective surgery immediately even though he would likely miss the rest of the season.

[SoxScout]

Well that is not good. Interesting how stories has the preliminary MRI results as only being a shoulder subluxation (aka nothing significant any more) and now these "preliminary" results are somehow different.

If they didn't send him to Andrews that would have been shocking. Ed Werder sucks, I say the odds of him having a real scoop are... remote.

Edited by SoxScout, 02 October 2007 - 11:32 PM.

[XNOUGHT]

This sucks for them.

But from a draft pick perspective, this bodes well for us.

[doc]

Well that is not good. Interesting how stories has the preliminary MRI results as only being a shoulder subluxation (aka nothing significant any more) and now these "preliminary" results are somehow different.

If they didn't send him to Andrews that would have been shocking. Ed Werder sucks, I say the odds of him having a real scoop are... remote.

Shoulder subluxations produce labral tears and they are so hard to reliably find on MRI that it is standard practice to have readings by 5 docs a mix of radiologists and orthopods and majority rules.

[Devizier]

Bad news all around.

That's bad for Smith, a promising young player who just took a major hit to his career prospects.

That's bad for the Patriots, because the Niners are going to begin doing things to win games with Dilfer at the helm. At this stage of their careers, I take Dilfer over Smith, especially since the former means more Frank Gore on the ground.

[SoxScout]

Maybe. However, on Sunday Dilfer played the worst game I have ever seen a QB play. He looked a million times more pathetic than Grossman ever has. At best, I think he is one of the worst 'game manager' QBs this season if he has to play a lot. Their O-line has been terrible too, well at least the veterans, I think Joe Staley has been decent.

Gore finally started to be a little productive last week, but he started putting the ball on the ground again. God knows where his head is at after his Mom died.

Good luck, Mike Nolan.

[kanga12]

Their O-line has been terrible too, well at least the veterans, I think Joe Staley has been decent.

Living out here in the Bay Area and having to watch and listen about the 49ers regularly, a lot of their issues on offense has been on the offensive line. They gave up 6 sacks and had 4 false start and 3 holding penalties this past Sunday against the Seahawks.

Mike Nolan in a radio interview earlier this week recognized the weakness of the line and said they were considering giving other players (i.e. David Baas, etc.) an opportunity to play (more). We'll see if that makes a difference or not...

[leetinsley38]

Living out here in the Bay Area and having to watch and listen about the 49ers regularly, a lot of their issues on offense has been on the offensive line. They gave up 6 sacks and had 4 false start and 3 holding penalties this past Sunday against the Seahawks.

Mike Nolan in a radio interview earlier this week recognized the weakness of the line and said they were considering giving other players (i.e. David Baas, etc.) an opportunity to play (more). We'll see if that makes a difference or not...

That is exactly right, O line is the major weakness. Which is why Alex Smith is actually a better quarterback for them than Trent Dilfer, because he can move around.
There are rumors out here of trying to talk Jake Plummer out of retirement, who would be an upgrade.

[cgori]

I was at the game, O-line play and Dilfer's decision-making were both pretty awful (secondary wasn't playing very well either). Dilfer is more of a "manage-the-game" QB, not a "make amazing plays" QB (especially these days), which probably doesn't help their chances either.

[soxfan121]

Jackpot? Fuck you. That's bullshit and bush league. I don't think you'd take too kindly to someone cheering a multi-week Tom Brady injury.

Take kindly? No. Expect it? Hell yes.

I gave a minor fist pump when I heard the news today while driving around; the fact the Pats might get a top 10 pick in a year where they've been "punished" (and I seem to recall a good deal of bullshit and bush league taunting over that) is absolutely wonderful.

The fact is, based on my 30 minutes of watching the 49ers this season, trent Dilfer gives them a better chance to win. Alex Smith has sucked this season, even when healthy.

[Scoops Bolling]

I gave a minor fist pump when I heard the news today while driving around; the fact the Pats might get a top 10 pick in a year where they've been "punished" (and I seem to recall a good deal of bullshit and bush league taunting over that) is absolutely wonderful.

Belicheat. Cheatriots. TMQ in general.

If you think Patriots fans aren't going to be happy to hear that Smith is injured, you are being just plain naive. How many non-Pats fans in the country wouldn't be ecstatic if Brady got injured?

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

If the season ended today, the 49ers would be in a coin-flip with Cleveland for the 16th pick in the 2008 draft. If people want weekly updates, the draft order is something I track, and project once the season starts winding down.

[bball831]

Dr. Andrews says no surgery needed

[Jim Lonborg]

Something that I've noticed as a 49er fan is that the new offensive coordinator is a huge drop off from Norv Turner last year. The reason that Gore has sucked is that every team has put 8 in the box daring them to pass and they haven't. The play calling has been totally predictable. Gore run on first down, Gore run on second down, then pass when it is third and 8. The reason that there were so many sacks last week was that the coaching staff was extremely slow to adjust to the different blitz packages the Seattle defensive coaches were sending. The players are somewhat to blame with their underperformance as well, but Jim Hostler hasn't helped things.

Edited by Jim Lonborg, 04 October 2007 - 01:27 AM.

[dcmissle]

Something that I've noticed as a 49er fan is that the new offensive coordinator is a huge drop off from Norv Turner last year. The reason that Gore has sucked is that every team has put 8 in the box daring them to pass and they haven't. The play calling has been totally predictable. Gore run on first down, Gore run on second down, then pass when it is third and 8. The reason that there were so many sacks last week was that the coaching staff was extremely slow to adjust to the different blitz packages the Seattle defensive coaches were sending. The players are somewhat to blame with their underperformance as well, but Jim Hostler hasn't helped things.

Norv's departure messed up two teams. Superb OC, bad HC.

[trekfan55]

Chiming in, also as a Niner fan.

1. Alex Smith has made some improvements but he still does not seem to have it, like a #1 overall pick is expected to.
2. I always considered Dilfer a decet QB, but with that O line he could get killed one of these games.
3. Ironic if Jake Plummer is indeed pulled out or retirement, as many Niner fans think that they drafted the wrong QB when they had a chance to draft Plummer (anyone know whatever became of Kim Dreckenmiller?)
4. Totally agree that Norv Turner's leaving totally screwed up the Niners O. But it's more than that. They've had like 4 OCs in 4 years and Nolan is a primarily defensive coach, so each new coach will bring his own scheme and changes. When the "coaching carroussell" ended last offseason I was happy that Turner didn't go anywhere as I thought it would give Smith and Co. one more year to learn and grow into the new offense, and then San Diego came along, no one here would expect Turner to refuse a HC job.
5. They took the time to get 2 good WRs yet cannot manage to throw ell to them with 8 men in the box? Sheesh!

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

The 49ers offensive juggernaut rolls on, picking up 38 total yards and one first down in the first half.

[Commander Shears]

(anyone know whatever became of Kim Dreckenmiller?)

Maybe he's a hand model. Note to NFL GMs: It's never a good sign when the only positive thing anyone can say about your supposed 'quarterback of the future' is that he has gigantic mitts. Of course, that's better than drafting one with little girl hands who can barely hold onto the ball.

As a lifelong Niners & Pats fan, this is a very strange year for me.

[Obscure Name]

Nice to see the Sox outscore the Niners.

[TheRealness]

I don't know how anyone can want Trent Dilfer over Alex Smith. The kid made some real progress last year in learning how to manage games. He doesn't have a canon, but he's a smart kid with good athleticism. Dilfer is by far an inferior quarterback, and while it certainly is dissapointing to see Smith go down as he's just starting to establish himself, it is incredibly lucky for the Patriots. We are going to get a shot at an extremely talented player, much higher than if we had held onto our 1st rounder last year. The 49ers needed Smith to have a good, solid year and now that they're relying on Dilfer, everyone is going to force Trent to beat them by taking away Gore. There is no way Trent Dilfer is beating anybody by himself.

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

The draft pick is now up to #11, #10 if Buffalo upsets Dallas tomorrow. That might get you a guy like Zackary Bowman of Nebraska.

[Sportsbstn]

The draft pick is now up to #11, #10 if Buffalo upsets Dallas tomorrow. That might get you a guy like Zackary Bowman of Nebraska.

The draft pick is going a lot higher than #11 by the time this season ends. I could definitely see no more than 2 more wins from the 49ers, and maybe only 1. 3-13 or 4-12 at best is my guess.


Look at the teams who are currently tied or below them:

NY Jets: They have not looked good, but I have to think they can win 4 games or more.
Buffalo: Will certainly win more than 4 games. They have still yet to play Miami.
Miami: Definitely finishing at the bottom of the league below SF.


Cincinatti: No question will win a lot more games than SF
Cleveland: This team will be close to .500, maybe 7-9.


Denver: The Broncos win pick themselves up and will not be in contention with SF here.
KC: Big variable, the team has been pretty bad, and they play a pretty tough schedule. They are good at home though, so I give them 2-3 more wins on the season.
San Diego: No question, much better.


Philly: At 1-3 they are underperforming, but Westbrook will be back and they will finish well ahead of SF.

Chicago: Big win last night at GB, they will finish well above SF as well.
Minnesota: Unless they get QB help they are in trouble as Peterson can not do it all. They are definitely a threat to finish near SF at the bottom.

Atlanta: No question, they are a threat to SF, but they have hung in every game beyond the season opener. Something tells me they finish with 4 wins on the season.
New Orleans: My god they can be this horrendous can they? As much as I want to say no, I cant...they are brutal.

St Louis: The whole offense has been hurt this season leading to the Rams' struggles. Nothing is changing very soon on those injuries though, so it will be ugly.



Projecting right now:

1. Miami 1-15
2. St Louis 2-14
3. New Orleans 3-13
4. San Franicisco 3-13
5. Atlanta 4-12


The funny thing is when Dallas traded for Cleveland's number #1 next year everyone pretty much assumed it would end up being much higher than SF's #1 pick. Doesnt look even all that close right now. I think the Pats will end up with a top 5 draft pick in 2008.

[tims4wins]

This may have been covered, but do we have any info as to which pick the Pats will lose? Can the NFL take away the Niners pick, or will they be taking away the 32nd pick?

[jsinger121]

This may have been covered, but do we have any info as to which pick the Pats will lose? Can the NFL take away the Niners pick, or will they be taking away the 32nd pick?

Its already been stated it will be the Patriots own selection.

[Saints Rest]

I think the niners will bounce back bit. I am guessing the pick will be in the 8-12 range. Still very good. And certainly irksome to Jets fans who were surely gloating about the Pats losing their 1st round pick after Spygate.

[JKelley34]

Also, given the quotes by Pioli, Kraft and Belichick around the idea that the top 15 picks in the draft are often not worth it given the contract size, I could definately imagine trading down, giving them something in the bottom half of the 2008 draft and a likely 2009 first rounder or two 2008 picks (1st and an early second). I'm almost convinced that if they are picking anywhere above 10, they will trade down. Especially when you look at a top 10 pick costing approximately as much as the Ty Warren extension. The value is just not there.

[GreyisGone]

Also, given the quotes by Pioli, Kraft and Belichick around the idea that the top 15 picks in the draft are often not worth it given the contract size, I could definately imagine trading down, giving them something in the bottom half of the 2008 draft and a likely 2009 first rounder or two 2008 picks (1st and an early second). I'm almost convinced that if they are picking anywhere above 10, they will trade down. Especially when you look at a top 10 pick costing approximately as much as the Ty Warren extension. The value is just not there.

I haven't followed college football much this year, but if there is a stud CB or LB I could see the Patriots keeping it. Otherwise, I agree they'd probably move it.

[Chainsaw318]

I'm almost convinced that if they are picking anywhere above 10, they will trade down. Especially when you look at a top 10 pick costing approximately as much as the Ty Warren extension. The value is just not there.

Agreed. I see them trading this pick down unless it falls into the bottom half of the 'teens, which I doubt, and I maybe even then. There is going to be someone lusting after a QB, WR or DE that will give up a late 1st and a 2nd/3rd for that pick.

As an aside, I mentioned this thread to a buddy who is a big BC fan, and he is now worried that it will be something like the Falcons trading up from the 2nd round to try to get Matt Ryan, and he will have to watch his favorite son run around in a Falcon's #7 jersey in the near future. I found his terror amusing.

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

While I believe Ryan has a solid NFL future and Atlanta will definitely scout him thoroughly (he might well go in the top ten), there's no way in the world he's taking that #7 jersey in Atlanta even if he's crazy enough to want it.