[The Allented Mr Ripley]

Wakefield has made no secret about his preference for Mirabelli as his personal catcher, to the point of saying before the season that he'd likely retire once Doug was no longer a Red Sox (either through Doug's own retirement or release/non-tender from the team). The larger question has been whether keeping Wakefield is worth keeping Mirabelli. Personally, I don't expect much offense out of the backup catcher spot, so as anemic as Mirabelli's bat is, it's not drastically worse than what a typical backup can provide. However, I do think he's overpaid, and his age/body type will ensure that his career is going to end before Wakefield's, assuming Tim has the desire to keep pitching.

Wakefield's commented on Kevin Cash's performance catching him in Sunday's Globe:

Quote

With Doug Mirabelli on the shelf with a strained calf, Wakefield's last two outings have come with Pawtucket call-up Kevin Cash behind the plate.

"I'm very comfortable throwing to him," Wakefield said. "He caught me on the side in spring training, and I thought he had pretty good hands. For what he's been asked to do, he's done a tremendous job so far."

Cash has exceeded Wakefield's expectations after a rough couple of innings against the Rays last Monday night. "He made a couple of adjustments," Wakefield said. "He's also done a good job of calling the game. We've been on the same page. I can't say enough for him, catching the second game of the doubleheader [Friday]night, then coming out and catching me."

While Wakefield never threw Josh Bard under the bus, he never went out of his way to specifically compliment his catching of the knuckleball, either, so I believe that Tim is being truthful as opposed to giving a media-friendly sound bite.

To me, I think this makes it very easy to say goodbye to Mirabelli at the end of the season and establishes Cash as the front-runner as Wake's personal catcher next year. Cash's bat doesn't strike fear in the hearts of men, either, but he's younger and cheaper, and with Wakefield showing why his contract is the bargain of the century, keeping him happy is of the utmost importance.

This post has been edited by The Allented Mr Ripley: 29 August 2007 - 11:39 AM

[Bowlerman9]

The Allented Mr Ripley, on Aug 29 2007, 10:45 AM, said:

Wakefield has made no secret about his preference for Mirabelli as his personal catcher, to the point of saying before the season that he'd likely retire once Doug was no longer a Red Sox (either through Doug's own retirement or release/non-tender from the team). The larger question has been whether keeping Wakefield is worth keeping Mirabelli. Personally, I don't expect much offense out of the backup catcher spot, so as anemic as Mirabelli's bat is, it's not drastically worse than what a typical backup can provide. However, I do think he's overpaid, and his age/body type will ensure that his career is going to end before Wakefield's, assuming Tim has the desire to keep pitching.

Wakefield's commented on Kevin Cash's performance catching him in Sunday's Globe:
While Wakefield never threw Josh Bard under the bus, he never went out of his way to specifically compliment his catching of the knuckleball, either, so I believe that Tim is being truthful as opposed to giving a media-friendly sound bite.

To me, I think this makes it very easy to say goodbye to Mirabelli at the end of the season and establishes Cash as the front-runner as Wake's personal catcher next year. Cash's bat doesn't strike fear in the hearts of men, either, but he's younger and cheaper, and with Wakefield showing why his contract is the bargain of the century, keeping him happy is of the utmost importance.

You wouldnt pay 450K to upgrade from Cash's bat to Mirabelli's?

Not sure why younger matters since Wake only has 1 or 2 years left.

Really, I see absolutely no merit to this discussion.

[Ian]

Agreed in principle.

However, Cash makes Mirabelli look like Barry Bonds as far as hitting goes. Cash is absolutely brutal. For this reason alone, Mirabelli is a much better option, despite his age and body shape.

[Harry Agganis]

From my standpoint one thing this does is give Wakefield the idea that there can indeed be amother catcher for him beside Mirabelli. Nuff said.

[Razor Shines]

He's done a nice job with Wake is what few innings we've seen.

But, saying "Cash's bat doesn't strike fear in the hearts of men" is a gross understatement. He is not just bad, he is historically terrible at the plate. Career .172/.231/.274, an OPS+ of 30. I'm hard-pressed to think of another veteran position player with a similar track record.

Not to mention, having Wakefield on the hill mitigates Cash's best asset: his throwing arm.

I never thought I'd ever type these 4 words, but: I'd rather have Mirabelli.

[Dropkick Izzy]

Harry Agganis has bingo. Here's hoping Cash helps Wakefield shed ridiculous notion that Belli is the only guy that can catch him and that together they are a package deal.

This post has been edited by Dropkick Izzy: 29 August 2007 - 09:57 AM

[OilCanShotTupac]

We have been seduced by relative offensive success by Cash in his limited appearances. It must be discounted some because of the horrendous Chicago pitching staff, against whom a team of children from a leper colony would have some success.

Cash's career shows that he can't hit.

I am encouraged, though, by the signs that Wakefield can be caught by Not Mirabelli. Which we knew, since Wake had already put together a solid MLB career before he ever threw to Mirabelli. Nevertheless, it's good to have tangible proof that the potential for other options in '08 is there.

[TomRicardo]

Dropkick Izzy, on Aug 29 2007, 10:57 AM, said:

Harry Agganis has bingo. Here's hoping Cash helps Wakefield shed ridiculous notion that Belli is the only guy that can catch him and that together they are a package deal.

Sigh but who will? What magically backup catcher has a better bat than Mirabelli but his skill catching the knuckleball while also being a free agent? Cash is a little league hitter.

[yecul]

Cash is a great third catcher to have around because he is strong defensively. You're not going to get a balanced reserve catcher that you can stash in AAA and they don't have a reliable prospect at this point.

As a year long option I am not a fan because he is a horrible hitter. While you can't expect a backup catcher to be strong offensively you can at least expect some competence at the plate.

The problem with Wakefield's personal catcher thing is that it creates inflexibility, which is a bad thing on an already limited roster (short bench). By specializing so severely with a unique pitcher you back yourself into a corner where your primary catcher (apparently) cannot be considered an option and most other options are (apparently) deemed incapable of handling the job.

Next year they should pick the best reserve catcher. Who knows, that might be Mirabelli. I hope that they avoid the situation of having a personal caddy for one pitcher letting no one else get experience with him. I don't buy into the concept of catching a knuckler being such a specialized skill.

This post has been edited by yecul: 29 August 2007 - 10:05 AM

[tailwind]

TomRicardo, on Aug 29 2007, 11:01 AM, said:

Sigh but who will? What magically backup catcher has a better bat than Mirabelli but his skill catching the knuckleball while also being a free agent? Cash is a little league hitter.

Who said it has to be a free agent? If Kottaras can catch the knuckler, then have Varitek season him in as the backup and see if he can hack it in the majors.

[Bowlerman9]

tailwind, on Aug 29 2007, 11:19 AM, said:

Who said it has to be a free agent? If Kottaras can catch the knuckler, then have Varitek season him in as the backup and see if he can hack it in the majors.

The Red Sox made a decision to not have Kotter catch Zink in AAA, which should tell us everything we need to know about their plans for him in 2008.

I dont disagree with the way they did it .... it was more important for him to work on his hitting skills and his game calling skills then to focus on something completely different.

At the same time, can you see them breaking him in as a rookie at the majors while trying to learn the knuckle? I think it will be enough of an adjustment for him to his ML pitching.

Again, if they had ANY intentions of him catching Wake in 2008, he would have caught Zink in 2007.

[tailwind]

Bowlerman9, on Aug 29 2007, 11:30 AM, said:

The Red Sox made a decision to not have Kotter catch Zink in AAA, which should tell us everything we need to know about their plans for him in 2008.

I dont disagree with the way they did it .... it was more important for him to work on his hitting skills and his game calling skills then to focus on something completely different.

At the same time, can you see them breaking him in as a rookie at the majors while trying to learn the knuckle? I think it will be enough of an adjustment for him to his ML pitching.

Again, if they had ANY intentions of him catching Wake in 2008, he would have caught Zink in 2007.

I suppose there's value in not having him catch Zink in an attempt to keep his focus on his hitting, but wouldn't the ideal role to break into the majors be as the backup (which, on our team, means Hello Wakefield?) They don't exactly seem to have a plan in place for the C position after 2008, I think seeing if the kid actually can hack it up top should be one of team's priorities.

Especially since there's zero upside to having Mirabelli around. Is it really a lot to ask of a guy to learn Wake on the fly if he's only playing once a week? I could understand that point if the role came with more playing time.

[Bowlerman9]

tailwind, on Aug 29 2007, 11:35 AM, said:

I suppose there's value in not having him catch Zink in an attempt to keep his focus on his hitting, but wouldn't the ideal role to break into the majors be as the backup (which, on our team, means Hello Wakefield?) They don't exactly seem to have a plan in place for the C position after 2008, I think seeing if the kid actually can hack it up top should be one of team's priorities.

Especially since there's zero upside to having Mirabelli around. Is it really a lot to ask of a guy to learn Wake on the fly if he's only playing once a week? I could understand that point if the role came with more playing time.

You touched in the answer in your post. The Sox DONT have a catcher in 2009. Right now, they have to hope that Kotter can at least have a chance at that job. He really does need to focus on his hitting, especially in 2008. Maybe the best thing for the Sox is having him in AAA for another year, hope he hits 300/380/450, and go into 2009 with a catching platoon of Kotter and someone like Zaun or Barrett (not necessarily those guys, but some second tier catcher who can start 60% of the time).

The Sox need to worry about a backup in 2008 as well as a starter in 2009. If Kotter is Wake's caddy in 2008, I dont think he'll have much of a chance of being more than a backup in 2009.

I am sure the Sox have somewhat of a loose plan for the future. They know which way they are leaning on Wakefield (id assume they are planning on picking up his 2008 option), have a loose idea as who his backup would be (not Kottaras, maybe Mirabelli, Cash as an emergency, etc), and an idea who they want in 2009 (resign tek? will Kotter be ready? what other FA are avail?).

[yecul]

You don't think they will resign Tek? I do. Probably 3/8 or the like. He's probably seen as an institution and will be retained and compensated for it. At this point I'm not sure his actual production matters, but we'll see what happens next year.

[Bowlerman9]

yecul, on Aug 29 2007, 11:49 AM, said:

You don't think they will resign Tek? I do. Probably 3/8 or the like. He's probably seen as an institution and will be retained and compensated for it. At this point I'm not sure his actual production matters, but we'll see what happens next year.

Not that it would be ideal to resign a 37 year old catcher, I wouldnt have a problem giving him 2*8 or 3*6 as long as we had a viable backup (Kotter?) and Tek was willing to split playing time 60/40 in year 1 (and hopefully 40/60 in year 2 or 3).

But I dont disagree that he has become an institution and will probably be resigned after 2008.

[kazuneko]

Bowlerman9, on Aug 29 2007, 04:47 AM, said:

You wouldnt pay 450K to upgrade from Cash's bat to Mirabelli's?

Not sure why younger matters since Wake only has 1 or 2 years left.

Really, I see absolutely no merit to this discussion.

Though I definitely agree with you that Cash's horrible bat and insignificantly cheaper salary argues against his use as a long term Belli replacement, the idea that this issue isn't important because Wake is on the way out seems a bit off. Wake is showing no signs of slowing down. There really seems no reason to think that he can't pitch until his mid to late 40s.
He's a knuckleballer, and a damn good one. At this point there is no reason to think he can't pitch until his mid to late 40s (Niekro and Wilhelm, for example, pitched to age to the ages of 48 and 49 respectively)

[Lose Remerswaal]

Bowlerman9, on Aug 29 2007, 11:30 AM, said:

The Red Sox made a decision to not have Kotter catch Zink in AAA, which should tell us everything we need to know about their plans for him in 2008.

I dont disagree with the way they did it .... it was more important for him to work on his hitting skills and his game calling skills then to focus on something completely different.

At the same time, can you see them breaking him in as a rookie at the majors while trying to learn the knuckle? I think it will be enough of an adjustment for him to his ML pitching.

Again, if they had ANY intentions of him catching Wake in 2008, he would have caught Zink in 2007.

I need to learn how to spell Kottaras caught Zink on Sunday, no WP or PB (8/26). Dusty Brown caught the previous start and had one PB. Maybe someone in the organization figured out that Mr. Kotter should get some exposure to the knuckler

[tailwind]

Quote

The Sox need to worry about a backup in 2008 as well as a starter in 2009. If Kotter is Wake's caddy in 2008, I dont think he'll have much of a chance of being more than a backup in 2009.

Well, you could spin that a different way. Playing the "what if" game, if Kottaras catches Wake decently enough in 2008 and looks fine with his bat, doesn't that show that he has the potential to play a bit more often, and as well, prevent the team from being handicapped by having to carry a personal catcher? It'd certainly make the roster, and other options (like Varitek in a reduced role,) a lot more flexible.

[Bowlerman9]

Quote

Though I definitely agree with you that Cash's horrible bat and insignificantly cheaper salary argues against his use as a long term Belli replacement, the idea that this issue isn't important because Wake is on the way out seems a bit off.

The point was originally about Cash as Wakefield's young cheap backup. The cheap part is completely irrelevant (300K vs 750K) and the young is important so far as we believe Wakefield can pitch another 10 years. But the fact that Mirabelli's downside over the next 5 years is probably close to Cash's expected value at the plate, I still dont think Cash is even the slightest bit a viable option as backup catcher next year. Age be damned, he isnt good at all.

Quote

I need to learn how to spell Kottaras caught Zink on Sunday, no WP or PB (8/26). Dusty Brown caught the previous start and had one PB. Maybe someone in the organization figured out that Mr. Kotter should get some exposure to the knuckler

I am thrilled to hear this. I still question what the Sox plan was in April. It obviously paid off having someone, in this case Cash, being able to catch the knuckle with little problem in the event Belli got hurt. But it just seems too little too late to be able to rely on Kotter in 2008 for Wake. Maybe if we go into ST with Cash and Belli as NRI and Kotter on a mlc, it could work out.

Quote

Well, you could spin that a different way. Playing the "what if" game, if Kottaras catches Wake decently enough in 2008 and looks fine with his bat, doesn't that show that he has the potential to play a bit more often, and as well, prevent the team from being handicapped by having to carry a personal catcher? It'd certainly make the roster, and other options (like Varitek in a reduced role,) a lot more flexible.

This would be the best case scenario, IMHO. Not sure what their plan is, but if Wake wants to pitch another 5 years, hopefully this whole personal backup catcher thing can go away.

[findguapo]

The best option with all this for next year (2008) as I see it is:

Boston - Varitek, Mirabelli

Pawtucket - Kottaras, Cash

Kottaras fills in when/if Varitek is injured, Cash fills in when/if Mirabelli is injured. How much is Mirabelli really going to cost next year? I dont think there will be enough of a difference to make it worth having Cash on the big club, Mirabelli is far superior to Cash. Cash should be happy to go to Pawtucket again next year, I don't see anyone else offering him anything, seeing that he hits like a crappy hitting pitcher. Kottaras can have a chance to continue developing, and then it will be decision time in 09 on the Varitek situation.