230 replies to this topic

[patman]

I meant in the eyes of the fans. I'm sure Papi would be perfectly willing to share. I don't know if he would be willing to, but I can see A-Rod earning a spot with Papi and Manny if he came here...

Yeah, I guess I realized that's what you meant - what I was trying to say is that if Papi, who seems to be very much the heart & soul and the face of the team to us fans, was cool with A-Rod most people would fall in line with that. Jeter is definitely the face of the Yankees and he's never fully accepted A-Rod and the Yankee fans and media seem to feed off of that.

[January]

Yeah, I guess I realized that's what you meant - what I was trying to say is that if Papi, who seems to be very much the heart & soul and the face of the team to us fans, was cool with A-Rod most people would fall in line with that. Jeter is definitely the face of the Yankees and he's never fully accepted A-Rod and the Yankee fans and media seem to feed off of that.

Sorry. My bad. I can agree with that. If A-Rod opts out, it will be because of that type of thing, rather than anything else. Tito may deserve more credit than we know for this. Say what you will, he's good at getting a bunch of characters to play as a team.

[patman]

Sorry. My bad. I can agree with that. If A-Rod opts out, it will be because of that type of thing, rather than anything else. Tito may deserve more credit than we know for this. Say what you will, he's good at getting a bunch of characters to play as a team.

No problem, I don't think I got that across the first time.

I agree, Tito has done a great job managing personalities over the last few years, and we've had some characters for sure

One thing that's struck me about A-Rod is how at ease and comfortable he seems with a lot of other players at gatherings like the All-Star Game or during warm-ups or even on-base during a game. Like at the 2005 HR Derby, only 9 months removed from The Slap, he's out their playing around with Ortiz and Vladdy while the contestants were taking their cuts and he seemed to be genuinely enjoying himself and natural. He'll probably get money he's happy with from a number of team so I wouldn't be surprised if he lands where he thinks he'll be most comfortable. He seems to have some friends on the Sox and Angels and Lou PinIella is like a second father to him so who knows.

If he were to come here, I hope we can still call him Slappy McBluelips from time to time 'cause that's one of the greatest derogatory nicknames ever - like whenever he commits one of his on-the-field questionable-sportsmanship faux-pas, we can say, "Well, that's just Slappy McBluelips being Slappy McBluelips."

[Imgran]

You know, if I was Carlos Pena's agent, I'd look at this kind of situation, where New York needs a first baseman, where Boston needs a third baseman but if they get a 1B can move Youks over, and where my guy was one of the best hitters in the AL last year, and I'd take the great year Carlos Pena's given Tampa Bay and I'd play hardball with the GM there. I'd wring him for a lot of money and if he didn't pay I'd turn and go to those other teams.

Don't rule out the possibility of Haverhill's Own returning to Fenway as our new, and probably expensive, corner infield acquisition and the Rays' reward for taking their chances with Pena being a couple Boston draft picks.

If Carlos can repeat the year he's having (which is always a bit of an if) then he'd be the perfect acquisition in the offseason. Great hitter, strong ties to Boston, plays a position we need, power lefty for the 5 hole. If Tampa Bay doesn't want to pay fair value (and Tampa Bay NEVER wants to pay fair value) it could easily happen.

Range is a weakness for Carlos but he's a good receiver at first, and Youks has treated us to a lot of reasons why that's a good thing to have. With Pedroia's range we can probably afford a Pena at first. And if Pena's gone Ortiz on us getting him back in the fold in Boston would probably be one of the better moves available.

Edited by Imgran, 02 September 2007 - 07:02 AM.

[FenwayGreen42184]

yeah I totally agree. Although Youk is an excellent first baseman, I would love to see Carlos Pena (Northeastern - my brother's college - Graduate) come home and hit like a wrecking ball for our team. If there is one thing we lacked this year it was more POWeR HITTING and Pena would bring that back to us. I think that is an excellent suggestion and it looks like a great move on paper. Plus I don't like A-Rod so with any luck he'll leave NY for LAA and we won't get him (because he's a club house cancer and everyone knows it) and we'll wind up with a good hard working guy like Pena at first.

This would be an excellent move!!!!!!

[Kyle C.]

I wouldn't be so fast on giving a big contract to Pena, sure he is having a tremendous year this year for the Rays, but that is only based on one year. It wouldn't be hard to imagine Pena asking for some serious money this offseason, (even with the possible discount to play for his local team.) and it would probably ask for a multiple year deal. I would rather see the Sox make a move to get a player that has a better track record then Pena. I don't know who those players would be, but certainly a trade wouldn't be far out of the question.

I personally think that if we were to move Youkilis back to third base, assuming that we don't make a run at A-Rod (which would be foolish to not want him on this team) I would like to see us take a shot at Adam Dunn. He K's a lot but that certainly doesn't mean anything when he is putting up insane numbers and has power that is out of this world. Not to mention that he has been doing this for years now. I would just assume that this would be a safer option then to give a big fat contract to a player that has just possibly broken out and could end up being a bust in the next few seasons.

[Imgran]

Now there's a contradiction. The only difference between Dunn and Pena is that Dunn got more consistent playing time -- and yet you're willing to pay far more for Dunn than we'd likely ever have to pay for Pena both talentwise and moneywise, and Pena's got better skills at first base than Dunn will ever have defensively. It's not like insane power despite the strikeouts isn't Carlos' bread and butter just like Dunn's, and at least we know (like we don't know with Dunn) that Pena can handle American League pitchers.

Edited by Imgran, 02 September 2007 - 10:09 PM.

[FenwayGreen42184]

Let us not forget that Pena is also (technically) a hometown hero. He grew up a Red Sox fan. He probably has reason to want to play here and he was successful enough at Northeastern to prove that he can live/play in Boston. Sure, maybe he hasn't played under the major microscope of the Red Sox (with the exception of the cup of coffee he had with the team last september), but he knows his way around Boston and it's pretty much guaranteed that he'd be comfortable here.

I'm not saying we should throw a boatload of money at Pena, but I think he's the best option (besides A-Rod) in the 1b/3B Market. Plus he's relatively young at 30. A 3 or 4 year contract would be a decent deal for us. Pena is also left handed so that is a bonus at 1B even if Youk can't play there next season.

Overall, I like the idea of having a decent teammate like Pena on this team as opposed to A-Rod. Lowell has been a real warrior for us the last two seasons and I think guys like this fit best in the mold of Boston's lineup. A-Rod is a pre-maddona and the press will come down on him if he fails. He will also (likely) not fit in with the team. There will also be questions swirling around his huge contract (by that I mean the new one he will get).

I think the right choice is to give another 2 year deal (perhaps with a third year option) to Mike Lowell and if that isn't in the cards then sign Pena for three seasons.

A-Rod is a great player and the potential he'd have in our lineup (especially to replace Manny's bat when Manny exits after 2008) would be great... but I don't know how I'd feel as a fan about it. I really feel like A-Rod would ruin the hard-working mistque of the Sox and that he would cause problems in the club house. But that's just my opinion.

[bombdiggz]

You know, if I was Carlos Pena's agent, I'd look at this kind of situation, where New York needs a first baseman, where Boston needs a third baseman but if they get a 1B can move Youks over, and where my guy was one of the best hitters in the AL last year, and I'd take the great year Carlos Pena's given Tampa Bay and I'd play hardball with the GM there. I'd wring him for a lot of money and if he didn't pay I'd turn and go to those other teams.

Don't rule out the possibility of Haverhill's Own returning to Fenway as our new, and probably expensive, corner infield acquisition and the Rays' reward for taking their chances with Pena being a couple Boston draft picks.

If Carlos can repeat the year he's having (which is always a bit of an if) then he'd be the perfect acquisition in the offseason. Great hitter, strong ties to Boston, plays a position we need, power lefty for the 5 hole. If Tampa Bay doesn't want to pay fair value (and Tampa Bay NEVER wants to pay fair value) it could easily happen.

Range is a weakness for Carlos but he's a good receiver at first, and Youks has treated us to a lot of reasons why that's a good thing to have. With Pedroia's range we can probably afford a Pena at first. And if Pena's gone Ortiz on us getting him back in the fold in Boston would probably be one of the better moves available.

I'd love to see Carlos Pena in a Red Sox uniform again. He's really evolved as a hitter this year given regular playing time. In addition to being a good defensive first baseman as you mentioned, by all accounts he's a great guy and the Boston connection is a good story (not to mention that guy can hit in Yankee Stadium).

But he won't be returning next year. As has been covered in this thread previously, Carlos Pena is not a FA after this year. He is set to reach free agency after the 2009 season. Tampa Bay would have to be really stupid to release them from their control. I imagine that they try to sign him long term, but if that can't be done why would they not get him on a one year deal and try to trade him at the deadline. He could fetch a good haul. They can always take the draft picks after next year if that doesn't work out. If anyone needs a refresher on the 2008 FA crop one can be found here on the second page of this thread.

Edited by bombdiggz, 03 September 2007 - 12:33 AM.

[JohnnyK]

An intriguing possibility could be Garret Atkins, should the Rockies decide to move him to make room for Ian Stewart as speculated here. Although his home/road splits are quite alarming, and his OPS+ this year is only 104; plus, it will probably take some nice prospects to get him.

EDIT: link

Edited by JohnnyK, 03 September 2007 - 10:28 AM.

[Imgran]

I'd love to see Carlos Pena in a Red Sox uniform again. He's really evolved as a hitter this year given regular playing time. In addition to being a good defensive first baseman as you mentioned, by all accounts he's a great guy and the Boston connection is a good story (not to mention that guy can hit in Yankee Stadium).

But he won't be returning next year. As has been covered in this thread previously, Carlos Pena is not a FA after this year. He is set to reach free agency after the 2009 season. Tampa Bay would have to be really stupid to release them from their control. I imagine that they try to sign him long term, but if that can't be done why would they not get him on a one year deal and try to trade him at the deadline. He could fetch a good haul. They can always take the draft picks after next year if that doesn't work out. If anyone needs a refresher on the 2008 FA crop one can be found here on the second page of this thread.

Cot's disagrees. Cot's has him signed to a 1 year 800,000 dollar deal. Unless the arb clock starts all over again if you're signed to an mL deal, or unless Cot's missed something, he should be in play.

[YTF]

Not that I'm advocating this move, but has anyone contemplated this............Ellsbury/Crisp/Drew in the outfield.........Youks/Pedroia/A-Rod/Lowell in the infield. People are talking of using Schill/Manny/Lowell $$$ to sign A-Rod, what about using Schill/Manny/Lugo money to do the same. Yes a trade will need to be worked to move Lugo and it will cost a bit more to keep Lowell, but would A-Rod/Ellsbury be better than Manny/Lugo?

That would be an incredible defensive outfield, a damn good infield at the corners and up the middle and you would probably improve offensively.

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Papi
A-rod
Lowell
Youks
Coco
Tek
Drew

Feel free to move them around as you see fit, Tito will.

Edited by YTF, 03 September 2007 - 08:00 PM.

[Imgran]

I'd do it Crisp-Ellsbury-Drew myself. Crisp has more experience in left than Ellsbury does. But you're right, that looks like a pretty good baseball team on paper.

Bench:

Lowrie
Cash
Kielty
Lamb

Throw that all together and you've got something.

Edited by Imgran, 03 September 2007 - 08:37 PM.

[YTF]

I'd do it Crisp-Ellsbury-Drew myself. Crisp has more experience in left than Ellsbury does. But you're right, that looks like a pretty good baseball team on paper.

Bench:

Lowrie
Cash
Kielty
Lamb

Throw that all together and you've got something.

Crisp/Ellsbury would have to sort itself out. Probably depending on who would better learn to play the monster. I think you see a lot of bench candidates in spring training. Very similar to what we saw this past spring with the bullpen. Bring in as many guys as you can and see what sticks. This will be the biggest need for the 2008 season if they were to open training with this line up.

[Imgran]

Makes a lot of sense. I definitely want to see at least Lowrie get a shot, so why not throw the whole thing open? It certainly shouldn't just be all about Cora.

[JayeBrady]

Just to throw in my dream scenario for next year...Lowell stays, ARod opts out and is the new Sox SS, Theo packages up Coco and Lugo for a trade (to where and for who, I haven't decided yet), Ellsbury starting in center.

Now tell me THAT wouldn't be a killer defense.

He's approaching his mid-30's....big deal...what more does Mike Lowell have to do to prove he deserves a few more years on this team? Walk on water?

[EllisTheRimMan]

3rd base next year? ...after the past couple weeks, I gotta vote for Lowell.

I really have no more to say but don't know how to stop typing..

[stephensjh]

3rd base next year? ...after the past couple weeks, I gotta vote for Lowell.

I really have no more to say but don't know how to stop typing..

Ditto..... what an amazing season and a quiet leader; he's a legitimate AL MVP candidate. Considered by many fans :washed-up, slowwwww bat, crashes second-half of season, salary dump, throw-in in Beckett trade, etc....... Ah, the unpredictability of baseball.

edit; context...the game tonite has made be dizzy and my wife is now rushing me to bed!

Edited by stephensjh, 03 September 2007 - 10:30 PM.

[Sal317]

People are talking of using Schill/Manny/Lowell $$ to sign A-Rod, what about using Schill/Manny/Lugo money to do the same.

Can't happen. There is no "Lugo money" that can be freed up. It's possible that Lugo may be playing for a different team in 2008, but no matter what team he plays for, the Red Sox will be the ones paying most of his salary. (Ok, I can't really guarantee that, but it's a very high probability. It's just the way things seem to work these days.)

(For what it's worth, I'm almost certain that Lugo will be back next year, and I'm ok with it. I really don't see Lugo as the same train wreck as Renteria. Renteria would never have adjusted to Boston. I still think Lugo might. He's shown flashes.)

Sorry to hijack the thread. Say, that Mike Lowell's on a pretty nice 30-for-60 run, huh?

[soxpats513]

Just to throw in my dream scenario for next year...Lowell stays, ARod opts out and is the new Sox SS, Theo packages up Coco and Lugo for a trade (to where and for who, I haven't decided yet), Ellsbury starting in center.

Now tell me THAT wouldn't be a killer defense.

He's approaching his mid-30's....big deal...what more does Mike Lowell have to do to prove he deserves a few more years on this team? Walk on water?

You really want A-Rod as our shortstop, honestly?? I know this game is a business but I, along with most of RSN I assume, absolutely hate this guy. He is a complete, arrogant prick and I really do not want to root for him. Being from the Lion's Den I can tell you that most MFY fans still don't like Johnny Damon, although they will root for him because he now wears their uniform. This would be our situation with A-Rod. It would be a very forced relationship and we all know how those end. Ultimately, I would love nothing more than to see him wearing another uniform next year (I'm betting Angels) but I really don't want it to be a Red Sox uni.

If we do have to get rid of Lowell, which would make sense given the Red Sox uncanny ability to get rid of clutch players (Yes, I'm still bitter about O-Cab), the only great replacement option is Miguel Cabrera. Cabrera, while younger, is not nearly as good defensively as Lowell. He has committed a career-high 20 errors this season (most at 3b in the majors) and has a fielding percentage of .939. While Lowell has not been as nifty as usual this season, he still has 5 less errors than Cabrera and has a FP of .954. Also, we all know that he has made some huge plays in the field despite the drop in his fielding numbers. Offensively, they have been pretty similar this year, although Cabrera has many more home-runs, fewer RBI and a slightly lower average. Cabrera has also had weight problems throughout his career. Most importantly, however, we all know that Florida is not Boston. Lowell has already proven that he can perform in Beantown and is a fan-favorite. Who knows if Cabrera can handle the pressure that comes along with playing for the Red Sox.

All things considered, I stick with Lowell, here. Cabrera is arbitration eligible anyway and it might be wise to not alienate Lowell.

[YTF]

You really want A-Rod as our shortstop, honestly?? I know this game is a business but I, along with most of RSN I assume, absolutely hate this guy. He is a complete, arrogant prick and I really do not want to root for him. Being from the Lion's Den I can tell you that most MFY fans still don't like Johnny Damon, although they will root for him because he now wears their uniform. This would be our situation with A-Rod. It would be a very forced relationship and we all know how those end. Ultimately, I would love nothing more than to see him wearing another uniform next year (I'm betting Angels) but I really don't want it to be a Red Sox uni.

If we do have to get rid of Lowell, which would make sense given the Red Sox uncanny ability to get rid of clutch players (Yes, I'm still bitter about O-Cab), the only great replacement option is Miguel Cabrera. Cabrera, while younger, is not nearly as good defensively as Lowell. He has committed a career-high 20 errors this season (most at 3b in the majors) and has a fielding percentage of .939. While Lowell has not been as nifty as usual this season, he still has 5 less errors than Cabrera and has a FP of .954. Also, we all know that he has made some huge plays in the field despite the drop in his fielding numbers. Offensively, they have been pretty similar this year, although Cabrera has many more home-runs, fewer RBI and a slightly lower average. Cabrera has also had weight problems throughout his career. Most importantly, however, we all know that Florida is not Boston. Lowell has already proven that he can perform in Beantown and is a fan-favorite. Who knows if Cabrera can handle the pressure that comes along with playing for the Red Sox.

All things considered, I stick with Lowell, here. Cabrera is arbitration eligible anyway and it might be wise to not alienate Lowell.

Yeah, we could never have any arrogant pricks on our team. Let alone root for one. I'm not a big Manny guy. Love him for what he does best and cheer my ass off when he's at the plate. His near annual "trade me....... no wait, I love it in Boston and want to stay" act has worn thin with management, players and fans. As has his questionable effort at times in the outfield and on the base paths, his questionable injuries (present not included) and his seemingly selfish behavior (deeming himself not able to pinch hit at times). He's ours. I accept that and cheer for the guy. He's my "forced relationship", a helluva hitting machine and the 2004 World Series MVP. Not such a bad ending.

If A-Rod helped this team to another W.S trophey you wouldn't enjoy it? If he were the clear difference all season long you couldn't accept that? If he winds up in Boston, get past the pinstripes. Until then bust the guys balls and enjoy the rivalry.

[Sea Dog]

Yeah, we could never have any arrogant pricks on our team. Let alone root for one. I'm not a big Manny guy.

See, I would have used Schilling as an example, but Manny works too.

Re: A-Rod, once upon a time, that "complete, arrogant prick" once offered to take a $28.5 million paycut to come to Fenway. Union nixed it, and then the MFY came in at the last second and stole him away from the Sox. Had that trade gone through and he helped the Sox win the World Series, he's an unselfish hero who traded money to reverse the curse.

Funny how people feel about players changes, based on laundry. If he played for anyone else, would he be called a "complete, arrogant prick" here? I doubt it.

[YouLookAdopted]

Lowell is probably our best bet for 3rd base, given the market. I say re-sign him. If he wants three or four years, fine... give it to him. It's not like you're gonna have a ton of trouble trading a good hitting, Gold Glove third baseman when something better comes along. He might even come back here for slightly less money than if he went somewhere else. No reason not to bring Lowell back.

[Imgran]

Lowell is probably our best bet for 3rd base, given the market. I say re-sign him. If he wants three or four years, fine... give it to him. It's not like you're gonna have a ton of trouble trading a good hitting, Gold Glove third baseman when something better comes along. He might even come back here for slightly less money than if he went somewhere else. No reason not to bring Lowell back.

And if the price goes as high as 15 mil? Because it could, especially of A-Rod opts out and the Yankees join Cleveland, Anaheim, Houston, possibly the Dodgers as well in lusting after the guy?

[Kevin Youkulele]

Assuming A-Rod isn't coming, I'd say the question about Lowell is whether he'll act like Varitek and prioritize coming back to Boston, or Damon and go to the highest bidder. I think some other team will be a higher bidder: LAA (Figgins is a natural OFer), NYY if they lose A-Rod, DET (Inge has sucked), and LAD (Nomar) seem like they all could pursue Lowell.

The 3B market will be scarce, but the Red Sox have more options than most teams; Lowell could be replaced by a 1B given Youks' flexibility, and it's likely that one of Crisp or Ellsbury gets traded, possibly bringing back a corner inf. This means that Lowell's value to other teams is likely higher than to BOS, and also keep in mind their commitment to youth.

[JayeBrady]

You really want A-Rod as our shortstop, honestly?? I know this game is a business but I, along with most of RSN I assume, absolutely hate this guy. He is a complete, arrogant prick and I really do not want to root for him. Being from the Lion's Den I can tell you that most MFY fans still don't like Johnny Damon, although they will root for him because he now wears their uniform. This would be our situation with A-Rod. It would be a very forced relationship and we all know how those end. Ultimately, I would love nothing more than to see him wearing another uniform next year (I'm betting Angels) but I really don't want it to be a Red Sox uni.

Don't get me wrong soxpats, I'm right there with you...the thought of ARod in a Sox uniform, on a deeper more personal level, that's not easy for me. In many ways I cringe and wonder what it is that posesses me to think such things. Comparing it to how MFY fans feel about Damon is "dead on balls accurate" I think...forced love indeed, but secretly, you're glad his numbers are contributing to the W column for your team....though that's not exactly the case with Damon this year for those in the Bronx, but you see what I'm saying.

I will say, the bush league crap he pulls on the field would concern me...should any of this actually happen....more so than the possibility of his ego taking over the clubhouse. Shaming the Sox uniform with that kind of behavior is not to be tolerated, and I would be first in line to slam his ass for it.

[Sal317]

It's likely that one of Crisp or Ellsbury gets traded, possibly bringing back a corner inf.

I agree. Coco will definately be on the block after this season, and I'm pretty sure that the Sox will be looking for someone who can take over 3B. Of course, Coco's value isn't particularly high, since (1) he hasn't been particularly good offensively this year, and (2) his salary isn't as low as you think, and (3) he's a free agent sooner than you think. So we won't fetch a "can't miss sure thing" prospect, be he can be the main piece in a deal for someone fairly good ("probably won't miss too badly").

I think the Indians are looking for an outfielder. (Trot didn't work out too well.) So I think it's possible that there will be a trade in which the most important two players swapped will be Coco and Andy Marte. (Half joking, half serious. How funny is that?)

[FenwayGreen42184]

Yeah, we could never have any arrogant pricks on our team. Let alone root for one. I'm not a big Manny guy. Love him for what he does best and cheer my ass off when he's at the plate. His near annual "trade me....... no wait, I love it in Boston and want to stay" act has worn thin with management, players and fans. As has his questionable effort at times in the outfield and on the base paths, his questionable injuries (present not included) and his seemingly selfish behavior (deeming himself not able to pinch hit at times). He's ours. I accept that and cheer for the guy. He's my "forced relationship", a helluva hitting machine and the 2004 World Series MVP. Not such a bad ending.

If A-Rod helped this team to another W.S trophey you wouldn't enjoy it? If he were the clear difference all season long you couldn't accept that? If he winds up in Boston, get past the pinstripes. Until then bust the guys balls and enjoy the rivalry.

Let us not forget that Manny never played for the Yankees though. A-Rod would come to the Red Sox from our most hated rivals and with a recent reputation for dirty play and being a club house cancer.

(Disclaimer: Please do not respond to these comments with evidence from A-Rod's days in Seattle or Texas that suggest he is not a club house cancer... I am simply refering here to A-Rod's MOST RECENT reputation (see: SI Article "The Lonely Yankee") I can't stand it when people on this site dig up some random fact, article, or stat from the past just to try and prove a fellow sox fan's opinion of a RECENT event to be false. ie, yesterday I made a comment about A-Rod not being a clutch playoff performer--which should have been an obvious reference to the last few seasons---and I got an angry response from some guy who posted his post season stats with seattle claiming he has a .280 career playoff average. We are all big enough baseball fans that we should assume we know what others are talking about instead of bickering about misplaced context)

[deythur]

Let us not forget that Manny never played for the Yankees though. A-Rod would come to the Red Sox from our most hated rivals and with a recent reputation for dirty play and being a club house cancer.

(Disclaimer: Please do not respond to these comments with evidence from A-Rod's days in Seattle or Texas that suggest he is not a club house cancer... I am simply refering here to A-Rod's MOST RECENT reputation (see: SI Article "The Lonely Yankee") I can't stand it when people on this site dig up some random fact, article, or stat from the past just to try and prove a fellow sox fan's opinion of a RECENT event to be false. ie, yesterday I made a comment about A-Rod not being a clutch playoff performer--which should have been an obvious reference to the last few seasons---and I got an angry response from some guy who posted his post season stats with seattle claiming he has a .280 career playoff average. We are all big enough baseball fans that we should assume we know what others are talking about instead of bickering about misplaced context)

Where to begin with this post? I guess with the "reputation as a dirty player" I hadn't really heard this ever about A-Rod. If you are referring to when he came up high on Pedroia I think you are taking that a little too far. Do you really think no one on the Sox has ever come up high or slid past the bag to try and break up a double play? That was one incident. I dont think players around the league consider him a dirty player.

Next, "clubhouse cancer". You reference an SI Article which is mostly quotes from a jackass roid head. Really? How can you respect anything that guy says? He signed a huge contract then missed a season because of a tumor caused by roids and has been a shell of his former self ever since the crackdown. That is not a guy I want on my team. Guys like that who get up n peoples faces during some roid rage are the one's I would consider a clubhouse cancer. Especially when he runs his mouth in the press about shit that is suppose to be kept behind closed doors. Giambi is a tool and cheat. F*ck him.

Next, your quotes " I can't stand it when people on this site dig up some random fact, article, or stat from the past" isnt that what you just did?
"yesterday I made a comment about A-Rod not being a clutch playoff performer--which should have been an obvious reference to the last few seasons" Why should this be obvious? His playoff stats in Seattle are just as important as the ones in NY. Why wouldnt you look a whole body of work rather than just the most recent. Ill answer for you , because it would your point wrong. By your logic Buchholz is the best pitcher ever.

Misplaced context can make your entire argument wrong, that is why people bicker about it. If 2 or more people are debating a certain idea or trying to defend a certain idea than the details and context are extremely important.

[FenwayGreen42184]

Where to begin with this post? I guess with the "reputation as a dirty player" I hadn't really heard this ever about A-Rod. If you are referring to when he came up high on Pedroia I think you are taking that a little too far. Do you really think no one on the Sox has ever come up high or slid past the bag to try and break up a double play? That was one incident. I dont think players around the league consider him a dirty player.

Next, "clubhouse cancer". You reference an SI Article which is mostly quotes from a jackass roid head. Really? How can you respect anything that guy says? He signed a huge contract then missed a season because of a tumor caused by roids and has been a shell of his former self ever since the crackdown. That is not a guy I want on my team. Guys like that who get up n peoples faces during some roid rage are the one's I would consider a clubhouse cancer. Especially when he runs his mouth in the press about shit that is suppose to be kept behind closed doors. Giambi is a tool and cheat. F*ck him.

Next, your quotes " I can't stand it when people on this site dig up some random fact, article, or stat from the past" isnt that what you just did?
"yesterday I made a comment about A-Rod not being a clutch playoff performer--which should have been an obvious reference to the last few seasons" Why should this be obvious? His playoff stats in Seattle are just as important as the ones in NY. Why wouldnt you look a whole body of work rather than just the most recent. Ill answer for you , because it would your point wrong. By your logic Buchholz is the best pitcher ever.

Misplaced context can make your entire argument wrong, that is why people bicker about it. If 2 or more people are debating a certain idea or trying to defend a certain idea than the details and context are extremely important.

Look, we all know that A-Rod (so far) in his New York career has folded under the spotlight during the playoffs (with the exception of the first three games of the 2004 ALCS)... Why should we believe that he would preform differently in Boston where he'd get the same schpeel from the press about being "not being a real Red Sox" etc.

So no, I don't believe that Buchholz is the greatest pitcher ever.
But I do think A-Rod's folding under pressure in NY is a decent predictor of what his future might hold playing for a similar big market club.

I'm not an oricle and I can't see the future, but this is a logical arguement to make.
His NYY numbers in the playoffs are more relevant than his Seattle #s at this point. End of story.
Maybe when it's all said and done, A-Rod will go through a metamorphosis and become the next Mr. October, but right now you'd have pit his smaller market numbers (seattle) against his MOST RECENT big market numbers (new york)... and personally, I think it would be a better bet to use his most recent big market numbers as opposed to his old smaller market numbers if you want to talk about him playing in Boston.

Carl Pavano had one good season and the Yankees gave him $40 million. Obviously THEY should have looked at his game log for his whole career. But that's an injury plagued pitcher coming to NY from a small market team in the national league, which, therefore, isn't as good a sample season as had Pavano been playing for the Mets that season.

You don't think A-Rod's a head case these days? Fine, believe whatever you want. But we all saw how the guy went into that 0-21 slump when he got hr #499. That's evidence right there.

[deythur]

Look, we all know that A-Rod (so far) in his New York career has folded under the spotlight during the playoffs (with the exception of the first three games of the 2004 ALCS)... Why should we believe that he would preform differently in Boston where he'd get the same schpeel from the press about being "not being a real Red Sox" etc.

So no, I don't believe that Buchholz is the greatest pitcher ever.
But I do think A-Rod's folding under pressure in NY is a decent predictor of what his future might hold playing for a similar big market club.

I'm not an oricle and I can't see the future, but this is a logical arguement to make.
His NYY numbers in the playoffs are more relevant than his Seattle #s at this point. End of story.
Maybe when it's all said and done, A-Rod will go through a metamorphosis and become the next Mr. October, but right now you'd have pit his smaller market numbers (seattle) against his MOST RECENT big market numbers (new york)... and personally, I think it would be a better bet to use his most recent big market numbers as opposed to his old smaller market numbers if you want to talk about him playing in Boston.

Carl Pavano had one good season and the Yankees gave him $40 million. Obviously THEY should have looked at his game log for his whole career. But that's an injury plagued pitcher coming to NY from a small market team in the national league, which, therefore, isn't as good a sample season as had Pavano been playing for the Mets that season.

You don't think A-Rod's a head case these days? Fine, believe whatever you want. But we all saw how the guy went into that 0-21 slump when he got hr #499. That's evidence right there.

What does that Carl Pavano paragraph mean and how is it in anyway relevant to anything?

I can see your point about A-Rods more recent playoff numbers being more relevant but that doesnt mean people should assume thats all your referring to when you say playoff history.

I dont think the 0-21 proves anything at all. Guys press especially when inching towards career milestones. Bonds did it when approaching Aaron. Its human nature.
The guy is about to win his second MVP in NY I think he can handle the spotlight just fine.