30 replies to this topic

[Varitekstheman]

I'm wondering if there are any swing mechanic geeks out there?


I am looking to put together a presentation for my team (college age) that will cover swing mechanics from soup to nuts. Obviously they have a pretty good background, but I'd like to start the fall from the ground up.

I have stolen some good information and animated gifs from John Sigler's Website. I have also ordered Steve Englishbey's introductory DVD.

I am trying to give my team a more audio-visual presentation of proper hitting mechanics. Also, I am a big fan of having several ways to explain a technique as possible. That way I can keep trying until the "light" goes on.

So, if anyone would like to share any explanations, teaching techniques or favorite drills...I am all ears!

[SoxFanSince57]

First, I would look into what Mike Epstein is doing these days.

Mike Epstein--Rotational Swing

Second, I would continue to ask about high quality DVDs or websites where "pros" teach mechanics.

Baseball Hitting Video with Coach Doug Clark--University of Arkansas Assistant Coach/Hitting Instructor Doug Clark gives an in-depth look at the hitting drills he uses to produce line-drive hitters. Using two former Arkansas players currently playing professional baseball, Coach Clark demonstrates more than 20 hitting drills to develop up the middle and opposite field, line drive hitting. He discusses the fundamentals of successful line-drive hitting, including how to shorten the stroke, the importance of timing and trust to get a better feel for the swing and to be able to “let it go” when a hitter is at the plate.

Baseball Hitting Video with Coach Mark Kingston--Assistant Coach, University of Miami Mark Kingston, hitting coach for national power University of Miami, details his hitting techniques used to develop consistency. He discusses the difference between hitting styles and fundamentals. Topics covered in depth include stance, loading the body, stride, getting to the hitting position, and the swing. Kingston discusses the importance of not pushing the hands back, driving the knob at the ball, three ways to load up, and what the proper hitting position should be and how to achieve that.

Baseball Hitting Video with Coach Tony Dello--Former Division I College Hitting Coach A comprehensive review of the fundamentals and techniques of solid hitting. Includes warming up, hitting mechanics, vision drills, plate coverage, hand speed power drills, batting practice off a machine, balance drills and tee work.

Baseball Hitting Video with Coach Mitch Thompson--Assistant Coach, Baylor University. Thompson breaks down the mechanics of the swing into seven parts: bat selection, grip, stance, start, stride, swing, and finish. Thompson also explores the mental approach to hitting and explains ways to make hitting simple. He demonstrates drills using the hitting stick, dry swing drills, the side toss, the short toss, tees, and front toss drills.

Baseball Hitting Video with Coach Jim Dietz--Former San Diego State University Head Coach and ABCA Hall of Famer. In this video, Dietz shares his wisdom and experience in order to help you get the most out of what a hitter has and, using what they already have, mold them into a more constant hitter (versus changing everything that the hitter already does). In this on-field demonstration video, Dietz shows how to recognize the inside pitch, the outside pitch, a fastball, and a change up and how to use this to create a constant swing. Having a constant swing will allow your hitter to use all fields and go with pitches. Also emphasized: teaching players to hit with their hands and proper stride length.

http://www.baseballv...tvidbasvid.html

A Hitting Clinic: Hitting Mechanics Volume 1--This video contains information and demonstrations on the hitter's responsibilities, the confidence factor in a game, where to stand in the batter's box, a philosophy of hitting and the basic components of hitting. By Jerry Stitt of the University of Arizona

http://www.hit2win.c...ing_videos.html

Edited by SoxFanSince57, 26 July 2007 - 04:57 PM.

[BADVIKE]

I see your out of Easton. Is this for Stonehill baseball?

[NickEsasky7]

The Science of Hitting by Ted Williams. It's a MUST have if you want to understand hitting.

[Varitekstheman]

I see your out of Easton. Is this for Stonehill baseball?

softball, actually---slightly different setup, same swing

On top of my typical explanations and demonstrations, I am looking to put together a visual presentation.

Are you an alum? There seem to be quite a few here at SoSh.

[SoxFanSince57]

I found that girls/young women responded to the ideas behind the rotational swing techniques best. I would again suggest that you get a DVD from Mike Epstein's website.

http://www.mikeepsteinhitting.com/

On-Target Series Fastpitch: 3 DVD Set

Disk 1. The Torque Drill
A telescopic look into Mike’s famous Torque Drill. The Torque Drill lays the foundation for the proper rotational swing.

Disk 2. The Numbers Drill
A telescopic look into The Numbers Drill. The Numbers Drill puts the rotational swing into full motion, with this easy to learn, step-by-step, teaching/learning system.

Disk 3. The Enforcer Drill AND Live Hitting
A telescopic look into The Enforcer Drill with a special bonus of live hitting. The Enforcer Drill is the glue that holds our other 2 drills together. You will also receive a special bonus section on maintaining the program by utilizing the wiffle ball machine.

Price: $59.95 plus $8.95 for Shipping & Handling

[Purpose Pitch]

Our fastpitch softball org has a hitting coach who has trained under this guy, and he is trying to get my daughter to make some adjustments to her swing. I have been doing a lot of reading lately about hitting mechanics, and have had a lot of long discussions with some respected coaches about it also.

I'm a bit leery of what is going on here, because my daughter is already a great hitter. On one hand, I know she can still improve and I am open-minded to any adjustments that could help her. On the other hand, I don't want to fix what's not broken. She has a very rotational swing built from the time she was about 10. She has tremendous bat speed and can hit the machine at 70MPH well (turns 14 next month). The biggest adjustment he wants her to make is to go from a stride to a "no-stride" swing. Other adjustments are:

1. standing taller - this is good for her, because she is small and crouches, and subsequently struggles with the high fastball, despite great hands and bat speed. Supposedly, Crews cites all of these extensive scientific studies that show your spine is at it's strongest when it is straight up and down, and batters lose power when they crouch.

2. Two eyes on the ball. Sounds like common sense, right? But this guy is huge on vision mechanics, and actually is getting our girls to turn their heads more toward the pitcher so they are almost facing them straight on. I like this also.

3. Knob of bat angled slightly back toward the catcher. This promotes power, and removes the negative hand motion from triggering the swing. Your hands are already back, cocked and loaded. Some believe that this slows the hands, but most modern coaches believe that is a myth. My daughter's catching coach is a former pro, and I have seen him hit like this for tremendous power.

4. This is my source of consternation right now: wider stance and no stride. This is the one thing that her hitting instructor does not agree with. My daughter uses a small stride as a timing mechanism and is comfortable with this. Pujols, Edmonds and other great hitters have no stride and use their bodies mechanics to create torque and power. I just wonder whether this is for everyone. My daughter is 5 feet tall and 110 pounds. She has great power for her size, but seemed to look restricted without the stride. I don't know if this is because she needs to get used to it, or maybe she shouldn't make this adjustment. Her hitting coach, when I mentioned Pujols, said: "well, look how huge he is!" Everything I have read claims that this is a comfort thing, and a style thing and there are differing opinions and pros and cons to each approach. The jury is still out on this as far as my daughter is concerned. I like that it keeps her head more still, and really her whole upper half is more quiet. She just seems to be hitting back up the middle and the other way. I still want her to be able to turn on an inside pitch and drive it to left.

What are your opinions on stride vs. no-stride? Linear vs. rotational hitting styles?

Edited by Purpose Pitch, 11 April 2008 - 02:15 PM.

[PaulinMyrBch]

Here's my opinion, FWIW.

I coach a 12U travel team (baseball) and have been involved with my son's rec and all-star teams for the past several years. I work mainly with the hitters.

All of those things in my opinion are related to his desire to get the bat to the ball in the quickest, most efficient manner. And they should, as reaction time in girls softball is more important than boys baseball.

But when it comes to the stride, here's what I have found. Based on the kid, the stride/no stride decision is such a matter of preswing comfort for the kid. If they are standing there in a wider no stride stance, but completely uncomfortable, they will probably be slower to the ball because the legs aren't in a comfortable starting position. Even a no stride swing has a timing mechanism to get started, usually lifting and lowering or just lowering a raised heel. If her timing mechanism is her stride foot landing, I think she should keep the stride.

If she's comfortable with the first three things, I'd leave those in. But on the stride, as long as she can get to the speed pitches with the stride, I'd let her keep it.

The fact that she is going opposite field or up the middle is probably her getting the bat to the ball a bit late or not squaring in time, which if she' in a really good precock position, she needs to make sure she unwinds before the ball, so that she's squared up at the ball. Or it could be the no stride actually slows her rotation down. Either way, I'd let her go back to the stride in some live at bats, I bet it speeds her up just a bit.

I know you know this, but make sure, especially if she is going no stride, that she locks the lead knee (left knee for right handed hitter) at impact. That's the main driver of impact rotation.

[Cumberland Blues]

I've got a question - reading the latest BA top-10 lists it seems there's a new buzzword when talking about swings that I have no idea what it means. WTF is "Barrell Awareness"?

[Purpose Pitch]

But when it comes to the stride, here's what I have found. Based on the kid, the stride/no stride decision is such a matter of preswing comfort for the kid. If they are standing there in a wider no stride stance, but completely uncomfortable, they will probably be slower to the ball because the legs aren't in a comfortable starting position. Even a no stride swing has a timing mechanism to get started, usually lifting and lowering or just lowering a raised heel. If her timing mechanism is her stride foot landing, I think she should keep the stride.

If she's comfortable with the first three things, I'd leave those in. But on the stride, as long as she can get to the speed pitches with the stride, I'd let her keep it.

The fact that she is going opposite field or up the middle is probably her getting the bat to the ball a bit late or not squaring in time, which if she' in a really good precock position, she needs to make sure she unwinds before the ball, so that she's squared up at the ball. Or it could be the no stride actually slows her rotation down. Either way, I'd let her go back to the stride in some live at bats, I bet it speeds her up just a bit.

I know you know this, but make sure, especially if she is going no stride, that she locks the lead knee (left knee for right handed hitter) at impact. That's the main driver of impact rotation.

Thanks for your thoughts. Interestingly, after a couple of weeks of research, talking to other coaches and watching my daughter hit with her team and batting instructor.........I have come to many of the same conclusions. Everything I have read from respected hitting gurus seems to agree that striding is a comfort thing, and one isn't necessarily right or wrong. Last night, she had a hitting lesson, and her coach told me that she watched video clips of Rob Crews' 23U team and all but one of them had a small stride. We told my daughter to continue with the adjustments she was making, but to get back to her small stride as a timing mechanism. She absolutely raked last night, and looked much more comfortable and powerful with a small stride. And it really is minimal, it's not like a giant Gary Sheffield baseball stride.



As far as "barrel awareness", I could be way off on this, but I would speculate it would have something to do with being able to hit to all fields. I do many inside/outside drills with my girls to get them to work on their plate coverage. So many batters (including many MLB players) try to pull everything. You want to have more "bat lag" on those outside pitches and let the ball get deeper into the strike zone, while giving the barrel of the bat the most potential chance of squaring the ball up. Turning on the inside pitch, and patiently taking the outside pitch the other way can only be done consistently by technically sound batters who are aware of the differences in getting the sweet spot of their bat on the ball on both sides of the plate.

[PaulinMyrBch]

Thanks for your thoughts. Interestingly, after a couple of weeks of research, talking to other coaches and watching my daughter hit with her team and batting instructor.........I have come to many of the same conclusions. Everything I have read from respected hitting gurus seems to agree that striding is a comfort thing, and one isn't necessarily right or wrong. Last night, she had a hitting lesson, and her coach told me that she watched video clips of Rob Crews' 23U team and all but one of them had a small stride. We told my daughter to continue with the adjustments she was making, but to get back to her small stride as a timing mechanism. She absolutely raked last night, and looked much more comfortable and powerful with a small stride. And it really is minimal, it's not like a giant Gary Sheffield baseball stride.
As far as "barrel awareness", I could be way off on this, but I would speculate it would have something to do with being able to hit to all fields. I do many inside/outside drills with my girls to get them to work on their plate coverage. So many batters (including many MLB players) try to pull everything. You want to have more "bat lag" on those outside pitches and let the ball get deeper into the strike zone, while giving the barrel of the bat the most potential chance of squaring the ball up. Turning on the inside pitch, and patiently taking the outside pitch the other way can only be done consistently by technically sound batters who are aware of the differences in getting the sweet spot of their bat on the ball on both sides of the plate.

Agreed on the hitting to all fields commentary. I was just thinking that no stride might be taking her away from normal rotation. In my mind from your description, I was thinking she has no trouble pulling the ball and if she suddenly was not, I thought it might be related to the wide stance and she was maybe losing rotation or having trouble squaring up.

Glad to help.

[Purpose Pitch]

I was just thinking that no stride might be taking her away from normal rotation.

I think you have Bingo on that one.

What I felt like watching her was that she was having trouble triggering/loading her swing without the stride. She had no rhythm at all. She was taught to hit with the "rocking motion" that Epstein discusses, where the batter triggers the swing in a way that there is no hesitation before the swing begins.

Once her rhythm was off, she wasn't finishing well. When she went back to a small stride, boom! she was turning on the ball powerfully on pitches on the inner half.

It's amazing what a difference it seems to make for her, when it looks like such a small thing to me. She probably raises her foot about two inches off the ground and steps about two inches forward, and that constitutes a "stride" in fastpitch.

[Varitekstheman]

Once her rhythm was off, she wasn't finishing well. When she went back to a small stride, boom! she was turning on the ball powerfully on pitches on the inner half.

I've noticed quite often taking away a small stride also makes a hitter lose their negative movement and loading of the core (though many are able to load with no step). That could have contributed to her loss of power. It sounds like she is back on track.

Also, I imagine you are right about "barrel awareness". My guess is it refers to the batters knowledge of optimal contact points through the strike zone and "where the barrel should be".

[Purpose Pitch]

I've noticed quite often taking away a small stride also makes a hitter lose their negative movement and loading of the core (though many are able to load with no step). That could have contributed to her loss of power. It sounds like she is back on track.

That is absolutely what was happening. And part of what was causing her to hit it the other way was that she compensated for the lack of negative motion loading the swing by turning her hip closed and thus restricting her rotation, like Paul said.

Her 2nd practice with the no-stride, she stopped turning her hips closed because we made her aware of it, so she wasn't hitting everything to right anymore. But she was still struggling to load her swing and duplicate that natural negative movement back, and still not rotating through with authority. Her timing was still messed up and she seemed to be swatting at the ball.

She's definitely back on track now. We just did the team's numbers from 16 tournament games in the fall. She had a .500 OBP and slugged .638. So I really don't want to change too much.

That's funny that you coach at Stonehill. I moved from Massachusetts 27 years ago, but my remaining family lives in Easton. I drive right by Stonehill whenever I come to visit (or attend World Series parades, hahaha).

[SoxFanSince57]

I am big on both--letting the batter get comfortable with her style and no-stride..........

Some thoughts.......

1) Obviously a small 2-3 inch stride is no big deal at all, but the real proof here is not theoretical. Get your daughter to face live pitching and video tape her. Watch her hitting fast balls, drops and change-ups. We can all take big strides if the pitchers aren't changing speeds. At your daughter's age she will now start to face kids who can change speeds. Hitting speed is rarely a problem for elite kids. Watch your daughter and see if she has the "body discipline" to stay back on drops and changes. The only reason strides are an issue is if the player gets out in front of slow stuff. Can your daughter stay back or does she lunge on off-speed pitches. The no-stride approach helps that, but there are a bunch of good hitters (Aaron/Clemente) who stride. Short players are WAY better able to control their bodies than tall players.

2) Throw your daughter's stats away...don't let anything in the past blind you to what is happening now.

3) It is nice to turn on an inside pitch. But for my money, hitters who can control the outside of the plate rule softball. The top player around here a few years ago (All-Met; now playing SS for Mississippi State) was just unbelievable in her ability to take a two-strike pitch on the outside corner to right field. IMO, work on plate coverage, letting the ball get deep and hitting balls on the outside corner to RF. The vast majority of Ks occur on outside pitches. Most HS pitchers, like MLB-AAA pitchers, don't work the inside of the plate that much. IMO, help your daughter master the outside strike. Most inside strikes are risers and you want to stay off those anyway and they are inside changeups which will be hit foul 95% of the time. Unlike baseball, softball is an outside corner sport.

PS A player with no stride can 'load' very well--raise the front heal or foot--rotate the hips back (clockwise for a RHB and counter-clockwise for a LHB)--move the hands straight back from the shoulder (yes, knob toward the catcher)--Kids with no stride don't have to lose the ability to load. 99% of people don't like to change what is working for them--even though what worked for them in the past may not work for them in the future. As you know, it takes time to build the skill and more time to build the muscle memory.

Edited by SoxFanSince57, 11 December 2007 - 01:23 AM.

[SoxFanSince57]

You might want to look into clinics/facilities in your area that build visual tracking skills. There are a few places in my metro where athletes can develop their visual acuity. I am a big advocate of putting this new discipline on any elite softball players' list of things to do.

Here are some articles/sites to wet your appetite.

http://www.frozenrop...sp?ArticleID=65
http://www.fastpitch...sionskills.html
http://www.sportseye...m/dataSITE.dpod
http://www.coachr.org/sptsvision.htm

[Purpose Pitch]

2) Throw your daughter's stats away...don't let anything in the past blind you to what is happening now.

I don't put too much stock in them, but just like the way some folks here grind baseball stats, there's often something that can be gleaned from looking at the kids' stats. Sometimes it smacks you in the face and you feel like an idiot. Like the time last year when we realized that our 2 hole hitter was leading the team in Ks. Not exactly what you want out of your 2 hole hitter. She moved down to 6th. hahaha

I like to look at my team's stats to try and pick up stuff like that, and sometimes less obvious stuff. We switched our 4 and 5 hitters last year after studying some stats and having some discussion and it worked better. We especially study the pitcher stats to try to optimize what they do well, and improve their areas of need.

As a father, I look at my kid's numbers mostly for fun, but I want to see improvement. She started 14U as a 7th grader last year, when most of her friends were still playing 12U. She batted .289 in the fall, .335 in the spring/summer, and .361 this fall. So it is good to see improvement.

On the flip side, up until our last tournament she was leading our team in strikeouts for the fall. I was pretty surprised when I saw that. She used to have amazing plate discipline, and even batted leadoff some last year (she went back and forth between that and 3rd), but she was hacking. I discussed it with her hitting coach and they worked on plate discipline and pitch recognition and she only struck out twice in 21 times up in our last tourney. Both times, it was against her catching coach, who knows how to pitch her. He has a team of 13 yr olds, and is a first year 14U team, that is why she doesn't play for him. We used to coach together, and I actually got him his current catcher (my old SS from town travel).

3) It is nice to turn on an inside pitch. But for my money, hitters who can control the outside of the plate rule softball. The top player around here a few years ago (All-Met; now playing SS for Mississippi State) was just unbelievable in her ability to take a two-strike pitch on the outside corner to right field. IMO, work on plate coverage, letting the ball get deep and hitting balls on the outside corner to RF. The vast majority of Ks occur on outside pitches. Most HS pitchers, like MLB-AAA pitchers, don't work the inside of the plate that much. IMO, help your daughter master the outside strike. Most inside strikes are risers and you want to stay off those anyway and they are inside changeups which will be hit foul 95% of the time. Unlike baseball, softball is an outside corner sport.

Very good points. I agree, and we are really trying to get her to hit the outside pitch more consistently. Her holes right now are the outside corner and the high fastball. When she's locked in, she'll take it the other way and cover the plate well. She'll patiently go with the pitch. She'll get her hands to the ball and drive the high fastball. But when she's off, she'll try to pull that outside pitch and get out in front. She'll swing under the high fastball. A lot of the adjustments our team's hitting coach is doing with her is emphasizing taking the ball the other way. That's why I really want this to work out, where she works with him, yet keeps her stride and continues her work with her personal coach. I have a close relationship with her batting coach, and I very strongly believe in her. She has been a top coach for over 20 years, and has turned out many successful students. We have known her for years.

What I really want is for her to be a complete hitter. A technically sound hitter that hits to all fields. I'm all about her taking that outside pitch to right field. All I am saying is that I don't want her to make such a drastic adjustment that she loses her ability to turn on a pitch middle-in and drive it into the left field gap, or rip one down the line.

Edited by Purpose Pitch, 11 December 2007 - 09:35 PM.

[SoxFanSince57]

Funny you should mention team batting stats. I had a hell of a time trying to convice our HS coach to look at the players' OBP when he constructed the team's line up. Unfortunately he never did. IMO, the team could have been much more dynamic if he had switched a few kids around in the order. Our best OBP hitter and really great base stealer hit 3rd and not first. The girl in the 2-hole was a great bunter and the kid I wanted to hit 3rd was a strong contact hitter with a good BA. You get the drift...1st hitter--basehit or BB, steal 2B, 2nd hitter--bunt/sac; runner moves to 3B and 3rd hitter--hits the ball on the ground for an RBI. We should have come out of the 1st inning with a run 5-6 more time a season. I do believe in the importance of batting order.

Just don't let BA be that important. Softball has so many 'short seasons'-- spring-summer-fall and I guess you have a winter league too. BA is just not a good point of focus given the SSS. I remember my daughters soph year in HS. She hit the snot out of the ball in Florida, but made out after out. Then she got into a funk because she started pressing during the first 5-6 games of the district league season. Finally, she started to hit again mid-point through the HS season. She worried about BA and not the fact that she was squaring up on the ball very nicely. Talk about the stroke and not the BA. My daughter had really exceptional plate disciple so I would often point out OBP rather than BA. (2B, BB, line-out to the SS; F7 and BB--a .333 BA which could be upsetting--"dad, I only got one hit"--yet she got on base 3 out of 5 PA for a .600 OBP and she hit the ball solid 2 of her 3 AB when she put the ball in play.)

Did you mean high fastballs or risers? I would have guessed that your daughter can turn on high fastballs that are left up in the zone. I have seen short kids just pound high strikes. They tend to turn on them far better than taller kids. Risers are entirely a different matter. Everybody has trouble with risers. Is that what you meant? IMO, it is best to leave that pitch alone until there are two stikes and she have to protect. If a pitcher is ahead in the count the riser should be out of the zone most of the time anyway--just to get kids to chase.

Drops are hell to hit and hell to lay off of. They are very tough. Has she seen that pitch much yet?

I agree that you want full plate coverage. She has to handle fastballs on the middle half of the plate and she has to keep back and hit the outside strike to RF.

Most short kids who were good hitters seemed to be pull hitters with good power to the L-C gap. I would have pitchers throw a riser early in the count for a strike. I would tell pitchers to work short kids with strong swing mechanics on the outside corner and low--drops and curveballs away. I would have them throw fastballs inside off the plate to back those batters off the plate. I would have them throw change-ups inside off the plate--where good hitters would blast the ball foul into the parking lot.

I have found umpires more willing to call inside pitches balls and outside pitches off the plate strikes. The strike zone is tight on the inside pitch and wide on pitches away. I have seen more called 3rd strikes on balls 2-4 inches off the outside corner than I have seen called strikes on inside pitches on the black. Hense my focus on handling outside pitches.

Edited by SoxFanSince57, 13 December 2007 - 01:33 AM.

[Purpose Pitch]

I don't really discuss my daughter's stats with her much. She doesn't really care, and I don't want her to focus on it either. Sometimes she sees me messing with them, and she'll take a look. But she doesn't let it affect her too much one way or another. She has a really strange demeanor for a player, a lot like Manny. I call her Little Manuel. She has a very short memory, and doesn't get too high or low from AB to AB. That being said, she recognizes when she's locked in and rarely misses her pitch during those times.

I look at them because I enjoy it, and also to try to gain some insight and be able to better coach her (and the others). And I am the furthest thing from a stat-head on this site. I am looking at pretty basic things just to get an idea of where our girls slot in different categories. OBP, slugging, Ks and BBs.

As far as the types of pitches......I wasn't even really talking about a riser. Just a high fastball. She can hit them, just not as consistently as I would like. I don't know if it is a regional thing, or a trend thing.....but we see drops all the time. Just about every pitcher in the NJ/PA/DE/MD/NY area throws a drop. All of the pitchers that I know learn fastball, then change-up, then drop. At 14U, most pitchers throw these three pitches, and the good ones also throw curves, drop-curves and screwballs. We've seen a few risers, but not many. You have to hit 55mph to throw an actual riser, so only the very good pitchers even can do it. I would expect to see a lot more risers when she gets to 16U next year. We'll play 18U tourneys also.

[Purpose Pitch]

Most short kids who were good hitters seemed to be pull hitters with good power to the L-C gap. I would have pitchers throw a riser early in the count for a strike. I would tell pitchers to work short kids with strong swing mechanics on the outside corner and low--drops and curveballs away. I would have them throw fastballs inside off the plate to back those batters off the plate. I would have them throw change-ups inside off the plate--where good hitters would blast the ball foul into the parking lot.

Continued evolution:

So I recently talked my way into procuring the aforementioned Mr. Crews to work with my daughter. This was a small coup, as this guy is very sought after and difficult to get time with. Aside from hearing wonderful stories from him about Manny (who he made a visual skills video with) and his playing days with Demarlo Hale.......he has had a huge impact on my daughter's approach in a short period of time.

Your post that I just quoted is a great description of how my daughter used to hit. And coaches that know her would take similar approaches to pitching to her like you described. So now, Crews has been changing her stance, her approach and has really worked with her on keeping her hands back, letting the ball get deep into the strike zone and trusting her hands.

The way he is teaching her, he is really trying to get her to take a linear attack to the ball. Interestingly, I have found more and more coaches who believe that "rotational" hitting is just a bullshit buzzword to sell hitting lessons. If you force a rotational type swing, you have a smaller window to make contact through the zone, you pull the ball alot and struggle with outside and offspeed pitches.

She is taught that throwing her hands to the ball, and maintaining a linear swing path is keeping her bat in the zone longer and actually giving her more power. If you rotate your hips hard, but have a linear attack to the ball, your swing should finish in a "rotational" manner naturally. So now she is crushing the ball the other way and up the middle. He does soft toss with her, and if she pulls a pitch that isn't inside, she'll hear about it even if she crushes it. She's now standing taller and getting on top of the high pitches much better. Her bat lag through the zone is much better, so her contact rate is up. He really emphasizes batters keeping their hands back and getting "level" as early as possible in the swing, because once you're on a level plane, you can adjust to breaking pitches "in flight". He showed us how someone whose swing plane is off cannot adjust mid-pitch.

This is the best batting coach I have ever found. He has his own book about mental approach and really talks to the players about their mindset and approach at the plate. A lot of coaches teach a batter to look for "their pitch" when way ahead in the count. For a lot of players, that means they are zoning fastball/inner half. He teachs players to survey the OF defense and zone the pitch based on the defense. Pretty fascinating. He'll quiz her: "2-0 count, CF is shaded to left, corner OFs are hugging the line (pull defense), big gap in right-center". And she is supposed to say that she is zoning outer half. Why look for an inside pitch if you are a hitter who can hit to all fields and you are being set up to hit one right into the teeth of the defense? You can be picky when you're ahead. He wants her to watch an inner half strike in that situation.

Edited by Purpose Pitch, 26 March 2008 - 05:57 PM.

[JimBoSox9]

The way he is teaching her, he is really trying to get her to take a linear attack to the ball. Interestingly, I have found more and more coaches who believe that "rotational" hitting is just a bullshit buzzword to sell hitting lessons. If you force a rotational type swing, you have a smaller window to make contact through the zone, you pull the ball alot and struggle with outside and offspeed pitches.

PP: Write this way all the time!

I think you have bingo here. More specifically, I think the idea that linear and rotational philosophies need to be in opposition to each other is bogus. I like what I'm hearing in your last post about bringing her hands straight to the ball on a level plane. Reducing the uppercut of a swing is significantly more important in fastpitch softball than in baseball, so it's a good thing to focus on.

The important thing to remember about stride vs. no stride is that it's a lot more about comfort and timing than it is about right vs. wrong. Where she starts doesn't matter-as long as she ends up in a good hitting position when her hands start to move forward. A zero stride approach can be helpful to many hitters who have issues keeping their hands still while their lower body is moving. Personally, I find it very difficult to time the pitcher unless I have a decently long stride.

A good way to tell if a rotational swing is being forced is to throw a lot of inside pitches just off the plate. Someone who is just whipping their hips and surrounding the ball will hit the ball hard but foul every time. Jam them and tell them to pull it down the line, and they will have to bring their hands straight to and inside the ball. Watching vintage Manny do this on inside fastballs is probably the best example I can think of.

[Purpose Pitch]

The new approach seems to be helping. 2 for 2 saturday with 3 BBs in 5 PAs.

What I really liked was that her two hits came against junk-ball pitchers. She usually lacks patience with these types of pitchers and struggles to keep her hands back. She gets "around the ball" a lot and hits grounders to the SS. Her two base hits, she moved up in the box, kept her weight and her hands back and hit a line drive into CF and one into RF.

She's been batting in the 2-hole for over six months now, and ironically, she is developing into a Youkalis type hitter. Her strength is OBP. She's very patient, leads the team in walks, but is aggressive on hitter's pitches. She has a really good eye and very good plate discipline. She's not quite fast enough to bat leadoff and not quite powerful enough to hit in the middle of the order. She's developing into an OBP machine, and a good table-setter, but has enough pop to drive in some runs and keep the defense honest.

She's turning into a classic Moneyball prospect. hahaha

[ExtremeR7]

What I believe is that rotational produce hell lot more power than Linear, Linear is better for contact hitting, the key here is to generate pre contact bat speed and that's when rotational mechanics come to play, now with that being said, Rotational mechanics sucks when you have to adjust to a certain pitch movement while you already initiated your swing, I believe that when you already generated the most of the pre-contact batspeed you can then switch to linear IF you have to adjust to a certain pitch movement. But linear only will result in slap hitter that doesn't strikeout a lot but will only have behind the 2nd baseman power at best.

[SoxFanSince57]

What I believe is that rotational produce hell lot more power than Linear, Linear is better for contact hitting, the key here is to generate pre contact bat speed and that's when rotational mechanics come to play, now with that being said, Rotational mechanics sucks when you have to adjust to a certain pitch movement while you already initiated your swing, I believe that when you already generated the most of the pre-contact batspeed you can then switch to linear IF you have to adjust to a certain pitch movement. But linear only will result in slap hitter that doesn't strikeout a lot but will only have behind the 2nd baseman power at best.

Hank Aaron = Linear

http://video.aol.com...-695/1952186937

http://www.evtv1.com...x?itemnum=11339

http://www.videospid... Derby/P/1.aspx

[ExtremeR7]

Ok, I watch those tapes and watching many more in Youtube about Hank Aaron and the only thing about him that I found Linear is his weight transfer, but then everything is rotational, just about every great homerun hitter is rotational, Bonds, Sosa, Mays, Mcgwire, Griffey.

[SoxFanSince57]

Ok, I watch those tapes and watching many more in Youtube about Hank Aaron and the only thing about him that I found Linear is his weight transfer, but then everything is rotational, just about every great homerun hitter is rotational, Bonds, Sosa, Mays, Mcgwire, Griffey.

I agree that most HR hitter are rotational. I prefer the rotational swing for kids. But IMO Aaron was a linear hitter.

[ExtremeR7]

Weight Transfer alone doesn't mean that a hitter's mechanics is solely linear, as long as he rotates in a stationary axis (just after he step up in his extended front leg which is another sign of rotational he begin the rotation). Ichiro Suzuki is a linear hitter, Luis Castillo is a linear hitter, hell Youkilis resembles me a lot of linear in his swing path to the ball.

Edit: I also forgot, Ted Williams was the biggest proposer of Rotational Mechanics.

Edited by ExtremeR7, 15 April 2008 - 02:11 PM.

[SoxFanSince57]

Weight Transfer alone doesn't mean that a hitter's mechanics is solely linear, as long as he rotates in a stationary axis (just after he step up in his extended front leg which is another sign of rotational he begin the rotation). Ichiro Suzuki is a linear hitter, Luis Castillo is a linear hitter, hell Youkilis resembles me a lot of linear in his swing path to the ball.

Edit: I also forgot, Ted Williams was the biggest proposer of Rotational Mechanics.

Ted/Rotational vs Bobby Dorr/Linear--they had a life time of good chatter about the two styles.

Unfortunately we don't agree about the strict definitions of the two styles. You said: "Weight Transfer alone doesn't mean that a hitter's mechanics is solely linear..." Be that as it may (we don't agree)...but the forward stride and weight transfer exhibited by Aaron makes his swing not rotational. Rotational hitters do not have strides and linear weight transfers--they just don't. We both like Bonds' and Griffey's rotational swings and they have no stride--rotational guys stay back and don't have that forward stride and weight transfer.

[Purpose Pitch]

Some hitting coaches are now saying that a good swing should have both linear and rotational components. My daughter has been seeing an instructor that has done a video with Manny. Watch the way Manny releases his top hand, and the way he takes the ball the other way. His swing is linear. My daughter's new coach teaches a linear attack to the ball similar to Manny's. He is the best hitting instructor I have ever met, and he is promoting power through a linear attack. If you rotate your hips properly, yet go with the pitch and throw your hands in the direction of the pitch location, your swing will naturally finish in a rotational manner. This should all happen naturally through hip rotation.

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. He had four girls in a class one day. He lays two bats down on the ground in the batters box perpendicular to each other. There is a gold bat and a blue bat. He tells the girls to pretend that the two bats are two streets meeting at an intersection. He says a girl is riding down "Gold Street" down a hill with a strong tailwind. She is going 45mph. He asks the girls what the girl has to do to make a left onto "Blue Street". A girl responds that you have to slow down. So he asks why would you want to turn and get around the ball? You lose speed that way. You generate the most bat speed by taking a straight path to the ball. Again, if the hips rotate properly, the batter will finish in a "rotational" manner....yet can cover the entire plate by attacking the ball in a linear way and releasing the top hand upon finishing the swing.

[ExtremeR7]

I'm sorry but there's no way you would generate pre-contact bat speed with a linear mechanics, the finish isn't is what counts, is the beginning of the swing. Although a linear attack will result in a shorter path to the ball, it doesn't mean it generate more bat speed before the moment of contact.

Another thing Manny isn't linear by any means, watch both HRs yesterday against Mussina, those mechanics are completely rotational.

SoxFansince57, I know what you mean, by standard knowledge a rotational hitter doesn't move forward neither stride. But the main thing of a rotational swing is to rotate on a STATIONARY axis, it doesnt matter if it is in the back leg or the front leg. About the stride I think now it is mainly used for timing purposes (I couldn't hit a dime with striding just to time the ball) and not for purposes of weight transfer. Ohh I love this kind of baseball talk.

[franklgl]

Good luck finding an example of a major league hitter who is either 100% rotational or 100% linear. Almost every hitter has elements of both.

http://www.hittingwo...ting_p/art1.htm