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Welcome to the Big Leagues, Jacoby Ellsbury


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#1 Forever Red 9

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:12 PM

Jacoby's been called up, Piniero to the DL. What should we expect from him? I don't believe that they are calling him up just to send him back down in a week or two once everyone is healthy again. He's had an .826 OPS combined at both AA and AAA this year.

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#2 RS Union Local 282

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:14 PM

Rotoworld comments:

"We suppose this says something regarding how the team feels about Wily Mo Pena in center field. Ellsbury will start in place of Coco Crisp and bat ninth tonight. He's only going to have value in AL-only leagues if Crisp lands on the DL with his thumb injury."

#3 geoduck no quahog


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:17 PM

This says something...

The Sox simply don't want WMP in the field.

Crisp is hurt more than they're leading on.

Ellsbury's being showcased.

WMP's gone.

????

(edit: If this is an up-down move, why would they play Ellsbury for one game? I guess, with a roster spot available, they simply don't want WMP in the field. Is there more to this?)

Edited by geoduck no quahog, 30 June 2007 - 03:20 PM.


#4 PedroKsBambino


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:20 PM

Certainly suggests that Crisp is injured more than we suspected; too bad, he finally was showing the bat we hoped to see, too.

That they saw what everyone else has, e.g. that WMP is too poor a fielder to play regularly out there, is not a surprise I don't think...I imagine they decided this was the case before signing JD Drew.

Good luck Jacoby, start strong.

#5 NYCSox


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:28 PM

Both Tejeda and Loe have strong platoon splits, which makes stacking LHH an important strategy.

Tejeda - http://sports.espn.g...s?playerId=6265

Loe - http://sports.espn.g...s?playerId=6136

I'm guessing Ellsbury starts both games.

#6 OCD SS


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:28 PM

Just looking at this through a "there's no way the FO is telling us the whole story" lens, I wonder if this means that 1. Crisp's thumb is much worse than they originally let on. (In which case Kudos to the FO for making a decision directed towards putting the best team on the field). It would also seem to indicate that the FO thinks very little of WMP's defense, and aren't going to hand him the keys to CF for any meaningful stretch of time.

2. They are close to a deal for either WilyMo or Coco, which would leave them without a second CF or defensive OF. Drew could probably play CF, but I'd rather the let him learn Fenway's RF without also trying to shift him to CF, especially since his offense is still a little shaky.
It's an interesting move, as I didn't think they'd call him up until much later in the season...

Edit:

This says something...

Ellsbury's being showcased.


I really doubt he's being showcased. I think that any team that's really interested in him probably wouldn't be interested in his results over just a few games as he adjusts to ML pitching; it wouldn't really tell them anything meaningful.

Edited by OCD SS, 30 June 2007 - 03:32 PM.


#7 Dalton Jones

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:29 PM

I am pumped and jacked to see this kid in the show. I hope he excels.

#8 NWsoxophile

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:30 PM

Certainly suggests that Crisp is injured more than we suspected; too bad, he finally was showing the bat we hoped to see, too.

If this be the case, why do you think it was Piniero sent to the DL as opposed to Coco?

#9 Forever Red 9

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:31 PM

If this is an up-down move, why would they play Ellsbury for one game? I guess, with a roster spot available, they simply don't want WMP in the field. Is there more to this?


See, that's why I'm thinking that there is a lot more to this callup than last week when they brought up Murphy.

- This is our top position prospect and one of the top 30 prospects in baseball. You don't put him on the Pawtucket Express right away. If he struggles, you give him a chance to dig his way out. If he succeeds, you don't send him back because Wily Mo Pena is out of options. Although you could have both be on the roster.

- Also, you don't bring up your top prospect to ride the bench. He's up here to start in CF, and it seems like he will be there for the foreseeable future. This is what leads me to think that Coco's thumb is a lot worse than what we have suspected. (Just when he finally started hitting, he's hurt and we're probably going to have to here people defend Coco for the next year because he has a finger issue again)

- Jacoby was added to the 40 man to get called up. This isn't as big of an issue because he was most likely going to get added in September anyways. But if they send him down after a week or two, they will have to burn an option on him. This shouldn't be an issue with his talent, but then again, 3 years ago we were saying that we would never have to worry about Craig Hansen running out of options. He's going to get an extended stay I believe.

So either Coco is injured with a serious thumb problem or the team is sick of WMP. Jacoby is going to be getting a lot of playing time I believe, even if it is as a 4th OF if Coco isn't that badly hurt. It just doesn't seem likely that they are bringing him up for a short stay. I'm leaning towards the Coco hurt reason because I think we would have brought Murphy back up if it wasn't (since Piniero went to the DL, we could have brought Murphy back up before 10 days in the minors).

Edited by Forever Red 9, 30 June 2007 - 03:33 PM.


#10 Rasputin


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:33 PM

If this be the case, why do you think it was Piniero sent to the DL as opposed to Coco?


Because it's bad enough that he can't play with it but not bad enough that it won't be better in a week.

Very excited to see the kid play.

#11 NYCSox


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:38 PM

Also don't rule out the possibility that WMP has some minor nagging issue (like a flu or something) that makes him day-to-day.

#12 InsideTheParker


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:44 PM

I'm dreaming, I know, but wouldn't it be loverly if they found some team who'd take Wily Mo in a trade for someone more useful to the Sox?

#13 GreyisGone

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:46 PM

This isn't because of a WMP trade. If he was traded they would need a 4th OFer, and they aren't calling up Jacoby to sit on the bench. He's up because Crisp is hurting and they don't trust WMP in center.

#14 Harry Hooper


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 03:48 PM

Sounds like without the all-star break, Crisp would be on the DL right now. He could still end up on the DL in a couple of days.

#15 Manny's Hammies

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 04:08 PM

All things considered, if Crisp is really hurt, that sucks mightily. The guy has been positively snakebitten his entire time in Boston -- here's hoping this has more to do w/ WMP getting moved than him being injured.

#16 MidnightC

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 04:09 PM

Woah. This is a shocking bit of news. With the DL move, they could've recalled Murphy if they'd wanted a better defensive OF, correct? There has to be something else going on for them to call up Ellsbury, especially since he wasn't on the 40 man. Hmmm...

Nonetheless, this news just made tonight's game more exciting!

#17 Nuf Ced


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 04:14 PM

I know it's unrealistic to expect much at the plate from Ellsbury, but, if he can get on base, his speed could be the kickstart the offense needs.

#18 E5 Yaz


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 04:19 PM

If Coco were hurt that badly, wouldn't they simply DL him instead of Piniero?

There's something more at work here. What it is, who knows.

#19 someoneanywhere

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 04:19 PM

My own sense is that all of the above are true, with no one factor necessarily taking precedence. If it were my team, for instance, I would want to make sure Coco is all the way "playable" healthy before I risked sending him out there hurt, only to send him back into the tailspin he just came out of. And if it were my team, I would not want WMP in the field if it means throwing him out there for a week or so. And if it were my team, I would want to know just what I have in JE -- on the merits of it, but also because I want plenty of time to evaluate everything before the trading deadline.

So of course something else is going on. But the plain something is going on, too.

#20 RoDaddy

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 04:29 PM

This one totally took me by surprise, too. Lot's of possible reasons as listed in this thread, but he's an exciting prospect who at the very least will be getting some big league experience. My one concern is that he struggled somewhat in AAA. His Slugging was way down (.354) from what he did in AA so offensively, we may very well be looking at a below average big league outfielder for a while.

#21 E5 Yaz


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 04:30 PM

All things considered, if Crisp is really hurt, that sucks mightily. The guy has been positively snakebitten his entire time in Boston -- here's hoping this has more to do w/ WMP getting moved than him being injured.


Seconded.

It just appeared that he'd made his way back.

#22 SinCitySoxFan1973

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 04:33 PM

Not to read into this too much; however didnt Theo offer Crisp for Buerhle straight up last year? Perhaps due to Coco's latest resurgence this deal is being reconsidered by Kenny Williams?

#23 yecul


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 04:44 PM

This is probably due to a few different factors. A potential trade being least likely, IMO. Crisp can't go, WMP is poor defensively and/or might not be able to go, and the matchups favor LHH.

#24 Maalox


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:01 PM

I suspect it says either that Coco's hurt worse than the Sox are letting on, or they are showcasing him for a trade. I'm not crazy about either. But maybe I'm just being pessimistic and it's really something else: say they just mistrust Pena that much. Can't say I blame them.

Just make the plays in the field, kid. Hopefully someone in the bottom of the order will get hot.

#25 Trautwein's Degree


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:02 PM

Wow - A total suprise. As an aside, is Piniero on the DL because of his ankle injury?

Put me in the Crisp must be more injured than the Red Sox are letting on and this team has a major deal or several deals in the works camp.

The thing to consider is that Ellsbury is just one month younger than Pedroia - Both accomplished college players, both successful minor leaguers and hopefully both Sox stars for years to come.

Edited by Trautwein's Degree, 30 June 2007 - 05:03 PM.


#26 twoBshorty


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:06 PM

In case anyone is dumb like me and just spent the last 15 minutes digging up copies of the Sox 40-man roster trying to figure out who Ellsbury was replacing, the Sox only had 39 men on the roster prior to Ellsbury's addition, so there was no corresponding 40-man move. For awhile, I was sure they must have moved Clement to the 60-day DL, though I'm not sure why they haven't done that already.

I have no idea what move this is heralding, but Ellsbury hadn't been at Pawtucket very long and didn't seem to have fully adjusted to AAA pitching yet, so this doesn't seem to correspond to the time track the Sox had him on. Which means they must have a damn good reason for doing this and using up one of his options when other quick-fix solutions were available. If it isn't something big going on, I'll be disappointed, though obviously I hope it doesn't signal a serious injury for Coco. The splint NESN showed on his hand last night looked fairly sizeable.

#27 Forever Red 9

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:08 PM

You can't add Clement to the 60-day DL until you have 40 men on the roster and you need Clement's roster spot for someone else. We haven't had the need to use it yet, so that's why he's not on the 60-day DL.

Edited by Forever Red 9, 30 June 2007 - 05:09 PM.


#28 E5 Yaz


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:17 PM

Cafardo on Piniero, on boston.com:

The Sox also placed Joel Pineiro on the disabled list. The Sox reliever was less than enthusiastic about the move.



#29 bluefenderstrat

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:20 PM

Sounds like Coco's thumb might be worse than originally thought, according to Amalie Benjamin on the pre-game show. It also speaks volumes about WMP's future on this team, in my opinion.

#30 Morgan's Magic Snowplow


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:23 PM

Which means they must have a damn good reason for doing this and using up one of his options when other quick-fix solutions were available.


I hear you about the damn good reason part, but the option thing really is no big deal with a guy like Ellsbury. They would have had to do it anyway if they want him on the post-season roster, which is a very real possibility. And he's not the type of guy who you would really worry much about options with in general. Its hard to imagine a future where in 2010 anybody will want to demote him to AAA for non-injury related reasons.

#31 smackdown924

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:26 PM

I was at McCoy last night. Ellsbury looked good. He took some terrible swings (the other team had a great lefty, Garrett Olson, 7IP 10Ks, 3rd in the IL in K's) but looked great in the field. I've seen him 3 times this year. I've been impressed by his poise, his speed, and his athleticism. He seems to be able to make things happen, even against tough pitchers. On the field I think we've been spoiled by Crisp, but Ellsbury is a major league defender, there's no doubt about that. Last night a lefty hit one to the right centerfield wall, Ellsbury nearly had it but managed to get it in to 2nd base in time to make it a close play. It was a pretty miserable night for the PawSox (7-0 loss) but Ellsbury was the best player on the field. He is a high energy player, and in that aspect he reminds me of some of our other young players, Youks, Pedroia, and Papelbon.

#32 Rasputin


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:30 PM

What's the word on Ellsbury's arm? Would a Drew/Crisp/Ellsbury outfield be a reasonable expectation in a post Manny world?

#33 JimBoSox9


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:35 PM

Tito was asked about Ellsbury's playing time in his pregame conference. Basically, what he said is that Ellsbury will be up for a little while and as long as he's up, he's going to play so his development isn't slowed. So this does sound like a non-official DL trip for Coco.

#34 tailwind


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:37 PM

What's the word on Ellsbury's arm? Would a Drew/Crisp/Ellsbury outfield be a reasonable expectation in a post Manny world?


Arm is said to be better than Crisp's, although that's really not saying a whole lot.

I'd like that outfield, but we'd need to get a serious power bat at 1B or 3B. At the very least a Mark Yankees 1Bman whose name I can't spell. If Crisp realizes his potential and Ellsbury isn't a flameout, they might provide enough offense with a 900 OPS guy at one of the corners to not handicap the team post-Manny.

#35 smackdown924

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 05:38 PM

What's the word on Ellsbury's arm? Would a Drew/Crisp/Ellsbury outfield be a reasonable expectation in a post Manny world?


well,

1. Ellsbury's arm was good when I saw him last night. As I said he threw one from the wall to 2nd base on 1 hop in time to make an easy double into a close play.

2. You don't want Crisp and Ellsbury in the field at the same time though, unless we aquire a huge slugger SS or something. That's one of the weakest OF I can imagine.

So he has a good arm but no, it's not a reasonable expectation.

#36 asphyxiation

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 06:17 PM

What's the word on Ellsbury's arm? Would a Drew/Crisp/Ellsbury outfield be a reasonable expectation in a post Manny world?


Unless something has changed drastically since last season, the word on his defense has always been that he has amazing speed (his on-foot pursuit of a deer has been discussed ad nauseum) and takes great routes to balls. His has below-average throwing strength that is slightly concealed by a super quick release of the ball.

I doubt I'm the only one concerned with his less-than-stellar performance at the plate in AAA. He hardly strikes out and had a great 22:26 BB:K ratio, however his OPS vs. LHP is a paltry .609. It's a SSS, but he showed a marked decrease in performance in AAA, going from .743 OPS in May to a .673 OPS in June.

I'm excited to see the kid get a shot, but it seems clear that Crisp must be really injured. I doubt they would be hasty to move Crisp when our top prospect is all but floundering in Pawtucket.

Edited by asphyxiation, 30 June 2007 - 06:18 PM.


#37 LahoudOrBillyC


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 06:38 PM

It's been a big week here in Corvallis. We won the College World Series (two in a row) on Sunday, and now the star of the 2005 team (which got to the Series) is already in the show. I don't know him, but people I know say he is a great dude. Good luck, kid.

#38 Clears Cleaver


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 06:50 PM

Arm is said to be better than Crisp's, although that's really not saying a whole lot.

I'd like that outfield, but we'd need to get a serious power bat at 1B or 3B. At the very least a Mark Yankees 1Bman whose name I can't spell. If Crisp realizes his potential and Ellsbury isn't a flameout, they might provide enough offense with a 900 OPS guy at one of the corners to not handicap the team post-Manny.


Well, if they don't resign Schilling or Lowell and have Lester and Bucholtz in the rotation, then they certainly have enough $$ to sign ARod to play 3B, giving them one year of a ARod, Ortiz, Manny 3-4-5 with Manny coming off the books in 2008. It is very possible that the first six guys in the order would have .400+ OBP:

Pedroia
Youks
ARod
Ortiz
Manny
Drew
Varitek
Crisp / Ellsbury
Lugo / Cora

Beckett
Daisuke
Wakefield
Bucholtz
Lester
Julian / FA et al

Edited by Clears Cleaver, 30 June 2007 - 06:52 PM.


#39 TomRicardo


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 08:13 PM

What's the word on Ellsbury's arm? Would a Drew/Crisp/Ellsbury outfield be a reasonable expectation in a post Manny world?


Thats really not a lot of offense from your outfield. I really don't like Coco as the Red Sox left fielder. CF is one thing but his defense in LF really isn't going to make up for his bat. If we trade Pena, I think you will the Sox pick up at least one of Manny's options.

#40 Pandemonium67

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 08:18 PM

I don't think this means Wily Mo is gone. Perhaps Theo is considering him as Manny's replacement in left, where the Monster minimizes his defensive deficiencies. Coco, Ellsbury, Drew and Wily Mo give the Sox four OFs with some flexibility, or they could be used for bait in the right trade.

I know I'm just about alone on this, but I think Wily Mo is going to be a very good slugger in a few years, hopefully for the Sox.

#41 Jinhocho


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Posted 30 June 2007 - 09:43 PM

I am glad to see Ellsbury getting a chance to come up to the big club. That being said, it just seems this team is committed to not giving WMP the chance I think he deserves for some regular PT. How he isnt playing regularly given the struggles/injuries of Crisp and the not so great play of Drew plus to give Manny a day off each week boggles my mind.

#42 ShaneTrot

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 10:02 PM

I am glad to see Ellsbury getting a chance to come up to the big club. That being said, it just seems this team is committed to not giving WMP the chance I think he deserves for some regular PT. How he isnt playing regularly given the struggles/injuries of Crisp and the not so great play of Drew plus to give Manny a day off each week boggles my mind.


WMP doesn't deserve playing time. He stinks defensively. He has 107 ABs, Cora has 109, Cora is out slugging him by ~.050. Of the position players, he only has a higher slugging percentage than Mirabelli, Lugo and Crisp. He has 40 Ks. There is no doubt in my mind the team would be better off with Murphy or Moss in his spot. They are much better defensively and they make more contact. We all want to see him thrive but he's a bad DH on a team with a good DH. He needs to go.

#43 mangotree101

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 10:34 PM

How he isnt playing regularly given the struggles/injuries of Crisp and the not so great play of Drew plus to give Manny a day off each week boggles my mind.

The "not so great" J. D. Drew's line this past month: .320 / .388 / .547 / .935
The 'struggling' Coco Crisp's line this past month: .330 / .362 / .455 / .817

There is one obvious reason why WMP hasn't been playing more: our outfielders were finally getting it done at the plate in June. If Coco's really injured, this could be more costly than one might think.

#44 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:18 AM

This move seems really curious to me. Is it to just give Ellsbury a taste of the bigs, and give him something to work for the rest of the year...or is it more than that? A week ago, they brought up Murphy when they needed an extra OF, and David appears more big league ready right now, even if his upside is potentially more limited. I just wonder what kind of message this says to him, and to a lesser extent, Pena. Why was Murphy called up last week and Jacoby this week?

(The more I think about it, the more I think the answer is pretty simple. In a situation involving playing every day, the Sox want Ellsbury up. For a back up role, they prefer Murphy).

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 01 July 2007 - 09:05 AM.


#45 wade boggs chicken dinner


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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:30 AM

This move seems really curious to me. Is it to just give Ellsbury a taste of the bigs, and give him something to work for the rest of the year...or is it more than that? A week ago, they brought up Murphy when they needed an extra OF, and David appears more big league ready right now, even if his upside is potentially more limited. I just wonder what kind of message this says to him, and to a lesser extent, Pena. Why was Murphy called up last week and Jacoby this week?

I think that the Sox brass are calling up Ellsbury and Murphy because they realize that they're both going to be on the big league roster in September, so they might as well give them both a small taste of the Show. And in Ellsbury's case, I think the Sox brass might have him pegged for a potential speed guy in the playoffs so this short call-up makes a ton of sense.

#46 smackdown924

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:34 AM

And in Ellsbury's case, I think the Sox brass might have him pegged for a potential speed guy in the playoffs so this short call-up makes a ton of sense.


Boy do I hope you're right. I saw him a few times in Pawtucket. He is a base-stealing machine. I saw him slide into 2nd and stand up before throw made it to the 2nd baseman. It's just not fair. I'm sure you all saw that ground ball right at Michael Young. He took his time with it, and that's all Ellsbury needed to turn it into a hit. The next time, he hit one to 2nd base and the guy hustled to the ball and released it immediately.

#47 OilCanShotTupac


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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:45 AM

From today's Glob:

Ellsbury is believed to be the first player of Navajo descent to play in the major leagues



#48 Mike in CT



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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:54 AM

I am extremely frustrated that Coco has finally started to look like a major league hitter.... and suddenly he gets hurt (another hand injury).
We have absolutely no luck with this guy. Hopefully the appearance of Ellsbury pushes Coco a bit.

Jacoby looks bigger that I thought he would. The NESN PawSox broadcasts make those kids look smaller than they really are.

#49 ragnarok725

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:57 AM

We have absolutely no luck with this guy. Hopefully the appearance of Ellsbury pushes Coco a bit.

I'm actually hoping the exact opposite. With Crisp's turn-around this year it's looking more and more like that finger injury really screwed him up last year. Having him push back early and over-compensating and messing up his swing is the last thing we want. That's the whole reason we have Ellsbury up.

Ellsbury's ceiling is the Coco Crisp we had been seeing in the last few weeks. That's the guy we want to be the CF of the future. Ellsbury is just holding it down until that guy comes back.

#50 Mike in CT



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Posted 01 July 2007 - 09:12 AM

I'm actually hoping the exact opposite. With Crisp's turn-around this year it's looking more and more like that finger injury really screwed him up last year. Having him push back early and over-compensating and messing up his swing is the last thing we want. That's the whole reason we have Ellsbury up.

Ellsbury's ceiling is the Coco Crisp we had been seeing in the last few weeks. That's the guy we want to be the CF of the future. Ellsbury is just holding it down until that guy comes back.


...pushing him in the sense that healthy competition can make people better players. Not pushing him in the sense of doing something stupid that keeps him off the field even longer.

It's hard to say how much Coco's previous finger injury had to do with his suckitude. It seems fairly obvious that a change in his stance has vastly improved his batting. Perhaps he changed his stance a bit after coming off the DL (maybe even without realizing it).... so in that regard the finger did lead to his suckitude.

Anyways... I don't want to change the subject of the thread.... but lastly I'll say that there's not much use for Wily Mo on this roster now (especially since he can't pinch hit for squat). Not with the outfield we have in AAA.