79 replies to this topic

[chester]

Heard that he got surgery in June. Anyone have an update on how it went?

[Saturnian]

Mike Hazen updates Hagadone's progress

Alex Speier has a post with some Nick Hagadone news over at WEEI.com. It looks like Hagadone continues to point towards a mid-May return to game action.

Quick video of Hagadone throwing in Ft. Myers

Edited by Saturnian, 12 February 2009 - 10:07 PM.

[chester]

Mike Hazen updates Hagadone's progress

Alex Speier has a post with some Nick Hagadone news over at WEEI.com. It looks like Hagadone continues to point towards a mid-May return to game action.

Quick video of Hagadone throwing in Ft. Myers

Good to hear that he is making solid progress. He looked pretty smooth in that video. Thanks for the update.

[EP Sox Fan]

Saw this intriguing bit on Hagadone in Jim Callis' last ESPN chat:

Jim Callis: The quick answer is that a healthy Hagadone would have better stuff but less control/command than Lester. It takes a while for a pitcher to regain his command after TJ surgery, so Hagadone will need some time. I would definitely take Lester over Hagadone, that's a no-brainer right now, but if Hagadone does refine his command he could be a better pitcher in the long run.

Quite a statement.

[SoxScout]

That's funny. Lester has had "control/command" for about 90 innings, it's not like he is Pedro out there.

Also, from watching that video, Hagadone has some chicken legs for being a 6'5 230 guy.

Edited by SoxScout, 20 February 2009 - 03:37 PM.

[Shore Thing]

That's funny. Lester has had "control/command" for about 90 innings, it's not like he is Pedro out there.

Also, from watching that video, Hagadone has some chicken legs for being a 6'5 230 guy.

I'm excited but skeptical about Hagadone bouncing back from TJ surgery. Hopefully with the improvements in medical technology and rehabilitation programs, he will come back nicely.

For what it's worth, I don't see "chicken legs" whatsoever in that video. I would venture to say that he has the type of body that "old school" scouts would love - long limbs, muscular, and well defined. His calves were popping out of his lower legs. Geez that sounds homoerotic. Anyway, I'm expecting an erratic 2009 from him with flashes of dominance. 2010 will be a telling year.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Quite a statement.

It's a bit relative and depends on what you expect out of Lester going forward. If you expect him to maintain the effectiveness he displayed in the last 3/4 of 2008, it's a huge statement. If you expect something less, not so huge. I think the jury is still out on Lester. He's shown that he's capable of being an excellent pitcher, but it's going to take more than 3/4 of a season to show he can maintain that. A lot of pitchers fluctuate from year to year, showing dominance one year and merely being good the next. Lester could just be merely good in 2009... or he could dominate. It's tough to tell.

[PrestonBroadus Lives]

It's a bit relative and depends on what you expect out of Lester going forward. If you expect him to maintain the effectiveness he displayed in the last 3/4 of 2008, it's a huge statement. If you expect something less, not so huge. I think the jury is still out on Lester. He's shown that he's capable of being an excellent pitcher, but it's going to take more than 3/4 of a season to show he can maintain that. A lot of pitchers fluctuate from year to year, showing dominance one year and merely being good the next. Lester could just be merely good in 2009... or he could dominate. It's tough to tell.

The magnitude of the statement is only relative to Callis' opinion of Jon Lester, not yours or mine or anyone else's. That said, Callis has a very high opinion of Lester, putting him on the level of a Halladay in one of his chats from last year. So, he's basically saying that, assuming a full return from TJ, Hagadone could be a perennial All Star, if he improves his command a little bit.

[OttoC]

I'm excited but skeptical about Hagadone bouncing back from TJ surgery. Hopefully with the improvements in medical technology and rehabilitation programs, he will come back nicely.

I thought that with those advances many pitchers who have had TJ surgery have come back throwing even harder.

[Rough Carrigan]

The standard response is that a lot of those guys were slightly hurt for a while, overworked, fatigued, altering there motions to protect their elbows etc. . and that the TJ surgery and rehab just lets them be their true selves again. It doesn't seem like any of those things would apply to Hagadone, so it seems unlikely that he'll throw even harder.

[cpharding618]

Did anyone else see the BA prospect rankings for 2009? Even though i sweat Hagadone i was still surprised to see he was ranked as the third best prospect in our system. Apparently he also has the best slider. :/

[chester]

The standard response is that a lot of those guys were slightly hurt for a while, overworked, fatigued, altering there motions to protect their elbows etc. . and that the TJ surgery and rehab just lets them be their true selves again. It doesn't seem like any of those things would apply to Hagadone, so it seems unlikely that he'll throw even harder.

Yeah it would be hard to imagine that he could top the mid to high 90s he was putting up pre TJS. Obviously now the question for him is if he can regain that speed which stood him apart from Lester. Not that it means that he will or should have been better than lester, but his topping out speed and rumored +slider gives him a dynamic that Lester doesn't posses. The other question I have now for Hagadone is whether or not he now has the endurance for starting or if it would be smarter to gear him toward a relieving role where he could continuously reach back for the speed and not worry about saving his strength.

[foulkehampshire]

Yeah it would be hard to imagine that he could top the mid to high 90s he was putting up pre TJS. Obviously now the question for him is if he can regain that speed which stood him apart from Lester. Not that it means that he will or should have been better than lester, but his topping out speed and rumored +slider gives him a dynamic that Lester doesn't posses. The other question I have now for Hagadone is whether or not he now has the endurance for starting or if it would be smarter to gear him toward a relieving role where he could continuously reach back for the speed and not worry about saving his strength.

Was Hagadone really a guy that threw in the upper 90's consistantly? From what I've read about him, he usually sat around 92-94 mph on his fastball, with the occasional 96, 97 heater. I don't know if that's radically different than Lester. In the 2nd half of 2008, Lester would sometimes reach back and hit 96 on the radar gun.

Obviously, with that biting plus slider Hagadone is more of strikeout pitcher (and perhaps a higher ceiling) than Lester. However, I take the velocity with some skepticism. Buchholz was hitting 97 on the gun in the minors in 2006 & 2007, but to say that he's a guy that consistently throws high octane is fantasy.

The number of starting pitchers that can throw that hard with serviceable command, consistency, and to be able repeat that over 30+ starts a season is rare.

[cem21]

Was Hagadone really a guy that threw in the upper 90's consistantly? From what I've read about him, he usually sat around 92-94 mph on his fastball, with the occasional 96, 97 heater. I don't know if that's radically different than Lester. In the 2nd half of 2008, Lester would sometimes reach back and hit 96 on the radar gun.

Obviously, with that biting plus slider Hagadone is more of strikeout pitcher (and perhaps a higher ceiling) than Lester. However, I take the velocity with some skepticism. Buchholz was hitting 97 on the gun in the minors in 2006 & 2007, but to say that he's a guy that consistently throws high octane is fantasy.

The number of starting pitchers that can throw that hard with serviceable command, consistency, and to be able repeat that over 30+ starts a season is rare.

The Red Sox had Hagadone hitting 97 on their gun while he was at Greenville last season, including the start he was injured. His fastball sits in the 93-95 range and will peak 96-97 during his outings when he is reaching back. He's in those numbers more than occasionally, but doesn't consistently work in those reaches.

[phrenile]

Providence Examiner does a write up, ranking Hagadone as #4 of the Sox's top six prospects:

Hagadone underwent Tommy John Surgery in June 2008. Noted surgeon Dr. James Andrews performed the operation. Hagadone is expected to resume pitching in May 2009.
...
The only problem I see with his delivery is the finish. It is a little difficult to describe, but he stops his arm soon after he releases the ball. Normally pitchers allow their arm to make a less dramatic deceleration. The concern here is that this quick stop could put added stress on his shoulder. Over time this could lead to shoulder problems.
...
He is an aggressive pitcher who goes right after batters. He has very good control, a good fastball and a strikeout pitch, his slider. However, his major league future rests on his ability to continue to improve his change-up. Major league hitters are too good to throw a mid 90’s fastball and a poor change-up.

If he is forced to rely on only two pitchers, then he will probably be relegated to the bullpen. This is not the end of the world, as Hagaone has the make-up and control to be a good closer. However the real money is in being a starter. If his change-up catches up to his other two pitches, we could be looking at a very good pitcher in a few years.

Hagadone has a bright future ahead of him. He throws strikes, gets a lot of ground balls, and often forces batters to swing and miss. The best scenario is that he develops into a No. 2 starter. The most likely result is that he becomes a No. 3 or No. 4 starter, or a good reliever, possibly even a closer.

[SoxFanSince57]

Lefthander Nick Hagadone, Boston's first-round pick in 2007 who had Tommy John surgery last season, has been throwing bullpens for a month and is expected to be ready to throw in a game by the beginning of May, after starting to throw live batting practice in April. That might place him with one of the Sox' affiliates by the end of May, after a likely stay in extended spring training. "He's doing really well," director of player development Mike Hazen said. "He's throwing fastballs and changeups at this point, and the next step is going to be to start being able to spin the ball."

http://www.boston.co...ng_is_on_money/

[chester]

Great to see this news:

http://fullcount.wee...ng-sox-slugger/

Nick Hagadone has been little short of dazzling in his extended spring training appearances as he comes close to concluding his return from Tommy John surgery last June. His fastball has registered as high as 98 mph, he has shown what’s been described as a “wipeout slider,” and he’s been getting swings and misses with his changeup.

I've been excited to see this kid rise and hope the best for his comeback.

[piker8]

According to Drivfan08 at soxprospects.com, Hagadone set to make first start for Greenville on Saturday June 6th.

[tmorgan]

Greenville debut confirmed at WEEI.com

Doesn't seem clear whether he is going to make short starts or relief appearances, probably the former.

[Saturnian]

Greenville debut confirmed at WEEI.com

Doesn't seem clear whether he is going to make short starts or relief appearances, probably the former.

I'll look for the link and post if I find it, but I recall reading someone (Hazen I believe) in the organization stating that he would be restricted to 3-4 inning starts this season.

Hagadone, Fife Prepare for Returns

Nick Hagadone has been little short of dazzling in his extended spring training appearances as he comes close to concluding his return from Tommy John surgery last June. His fastball has registered as high as 98 mph, he has shown what’s been described as a “wipeout slider,” and he’s been getting swings and misses with his changeup.

He has made three appearances in extended spring training games (of 2, 3 and 3 innings). The Sox are skipping his current turn, but then plan to have him return to make another three-inning appearance and then, perhaps, a four-inning appearance.

If all goes well in those outings, the organization’s current plan is for Hagadone to follow those outings with an assignment to Single-A Greenville in early June. In Greenville, Hagadone will be restricted, in all likelihood, to three- and four-inning outings in an effort to avoid any setbacks in what has been, so far, a very promising recovery.

“He’s not going to be probably more than a three- to four-inning pitcher this year,” said Hazen. “We’re just not going to push the envelope. It’s not worth it. Everything’s gone so well, the stuff has come back so well, and he’s not going to pitch for us in the big leagues this year. We want to get him into a competitive environment, but we need to do it on his timeframe, physically.”

edit: found article

Edited by Saturnian, 04 June 2009 - 12:34 PM.

[chester]

Good to see he has taken the next step in his recovery and is pitching in games (even if it is for an inning or two at a time). Id expect them to take him very slowly for the remainder of the season.

http://news.soxprosp...of-year-in.html

Nick Hagadone made his first start since his surgery last year and went 1.2 innings. He did not allow a run on a hit and a walk. He struck out 2. He threw 35 pitches.

edit: couldn't find any info on velocity

Edited by chester, 11 June 2009 - 10:56 AM.

[SoxScout]

Hagadone, who hit 97 miles per hour on the radar gun Saturday, said he was a bit disappointed in his command. And it's difficult for him to be satisfied by going just 1 2/3 innings after being on the shelf for a year.

"I'm a very impatient person, so the process seemed way longer than it actually was," he said. "Over the 12 months, I couldn't wait to get back on the field every day. I was just looking forward to it. I wish it would have come a lot faster."

Hagadone said the pain is gone for the most part, though there are still days when he has to take more time warming up.

"It's the development of his delivery, the development of his changeup and his slider, command of his slider and his changeup," Hazen said. "You lose that when he didn't pitch for an entire year.

"Those are the things we want to get back to, so next year when he comes back in . . . he's got to hit the ground running from a delivery/command standpoint. We need to work on his tempo, effort level within his delivery, and really refine his command."

http://www.boston.co..._change?mode=PF

[pokey_reese]

So far he has 0 ER and 6 Ks in 4.1 innings over two starts. Sounds good to me.

[templeUsox]

So far he has 0 ER and 6 Ks in 4.1 innings over two starts. Sounds good to me.

He actually hasn't allowed an earned run since his professional debut, almost 2 years ago. That's a span of 37.1 IP*.


* Thanks to Cem21 for the research on that.

[Barbara]

Hagadone had a rough outing June 16 -

Greenville starter Nick Hagadone endured his first difficult start since returning from Tommy John surgery earlier this month. On Tuesday, Hagadone allowed four earned runs on five hits over 2 2/3 innings. In Hagadone’s first 4 2/3 innings over two starts, he allowed one hit and no runs.

[ragnarok725]

Surprised that one of the system's most intriguing prospects fell off the first page here. Hagadone has been ripping it up in low-A. 30 K/11 BB in 22 IP with a 2.86 ERA. He's been pitching 2-3 innings per game (~40-50 pitches?)

Some questions for those who know the TJ rehab process:

What sort of schedule can we expect to see in terms of stretching back out to full starts?

Is a promotion on the horizon, or is the focus still solely on arm strength and conditioning?

Edited by ragnarok725, 28 July 2009 - 07:31 AM.

[Quintanariffic]

Surprised that one of the system's most intriguing prospects fell off the first page here. Hagadone has been ripping it up in low-A. 30 K/11 BB in 22 IP with a 2.86 ERA. He's been pitching 2-3 innings per game (~40-50 pitches?)

Some questions for those who know the TJ rehab process:

What sort of schedule can we expect to see in terms of stretching back out to full starts?

Is a promotion on the horizon, or is the focus still solely on arm strength and conditioning?

From all the information that's been gathered over at SoxProspects, it would be a surprise to see Hagadone promoted or stretched out this year, at least during the regular season. I think the plan is to have him pitch in one of the fall leagues, where he maybe stretches out somewhat, and then into the Red Sox winter programs until ST. I'll be surprised if he doesn't start the year in Portland given his age, performance, and now legendary work ethic. They are likely to continue to treat him with kid gloves next year somewhat as well, b/c he'll only have about 50 IP by the end of the regular season (maybe another 20 IP in fall ball?). Look for him to make something around 25 starts next year with a strict pitch count or IP limit. I doubt he throws more than 120-130 IP next year.

[chester]

All trade talks aside, I am going to miss the chance we would have gotten watching Nick Hagadone come up through their system and make it to the bigs. I was really high on him ever since they drafted for him. A big lefty with high 90s fastball and a "biting" slider is sexy combo in baseball and along with a developing changeup he looked like he could be a star. He was living up to his billing and probably on a fast track until he got hurt. To his credit he did everything he could to get back and ready for this season and by all accounts was having another positive year.

I think if he stays healthy he will be a very good pitcher so I am a little surprised we traded him. I wonder if it had something to do with his injury and they were worried about his future or if it was just purely to get a great hitter like Martinez.

Edited by chester, 31 July 2009 - 03:24 PM.

[Manramsclan]

I think if he stays healthy he will be a very good pitcher so I am a little surprised we traded him. I wonder if it had something to do with his injury and they were worried about his future or if it was just purely to get a great hitter like Martinez.

I think you've answered your own question here. Hagadone has plus stuff, but the value of acquiring Martinez, a middle of the order bat at a position of need, without making a hole in the current starting rotation by trading Buchholz, outweighed the value of Hagadone's ceiling when you take into consideration the risk of injury.

I am sorry to see him go as well, but all things being equal, the sox dealt from a position of depth (pitching) and traded their higher risk, although higher reward, prospect who is further down on the depth chart than Bowden and Buchholz. While the latter is admittedly no longer a prospect, he has higher value to the present major league club than does Hagadone.