24 replies to this topic

[InstantKarmma]

Edes had a bit in his notebook column about Ortiz's balky hamstrings holding him out of the lineup for the third straight day.

"I'm done for the year," Ortiz answered in jest when someone asked in a similar vein whether he was ever going to play again. "I'm going to sit on my average."

He might as well think about his average, it was suggested to him, since he no longer hits home runs and has become a singles hitter. "Yeah," Ortiz said, "I'm becoming Ichiro."

Over his last 15 games, Papi has had zero HR in 66 PA - the longest HR drought since he joined the Sox. He's seeing the ball (.327 .455 .500 - 13 BB), so is this a result of small sample size? Are pitchers changing their approach to him? Is he changing his approach at the plate?

[mr guido]

For real? Are we really wondering if David "Red Sox HR Record" Ortiz is becoming a singles hitter? Even though he leads the team in HR and slugging? Even though the quote you posted clearly indicates he was joking?

How fortunate we are in 2007 that this is apparently one of the biggest things people have to worry about.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

His homers are down, but his doubles are way up. Last year he hit 29 doubles all season long; he's got 20 doubles already this year.

As a big power guy, Papi loads up on his back leg before swinging at the ball. Balky hamstrings and a sore groin would probably prevent him from generating as much drive and maybe sap his power a touch. Since the doubles have gone up as the homers have gone down, that seems to make sense to me.

I'm not worried in the slightest. He's still hitting the ball very well, and still absurdly productive at the plate.

[DJnVa]

I would surmise the lack of HRs is just one of those things--small sample size, etc. It's not like he's not hitting the ball. I have no problems with him getting a few games off with the big division lead. The division is not a done deal, but an advantage of a big early lead is resting your guys when you can instead of risking an injury by rushing them back out there.

[InstantKarmma]

For real? Are we really wondering if David "Red Sox HR Record" Ortiz is becoming a singles hitter?

We're not wondering if he's becoming a singles hitter, obviously, but wondering if his longest HR drought, followed by his absence due to tight (or whatever) hamstring, is merely coincidence or is one the result of the other.

How fortunate we are in 2007 that this is apparently one of the biggest things people have to worry about.

Worried about it? No. Believe it's a topic of conversation? Why not.

[TheIlluminati]

You got to love how much fun everyone is having. I've been hearing a lot of in jest quotes.

Youkilis after last night, "We don't need Papi. Save him for the playoffs. If we need a big hit, a walkoff, we'll bring him in."

If we keep winning who cares if Papi continues at his less than Papi like pace and finishes with like 30 HR's, 65 doubles, and a 316 avg... actually I might like that.

[biollante]

I thought this was about some sort of new race change operation.

Glad to see Big Papi has a sense of humor. Also hopes he takes as much time as possible to heal. Doesn't make sense to injure it again.

[yecul]

His homers are down, but his doubles are way up.

That's really the key. He's hitting for power, it's just not going out of the park. Maybe he's adjusted a bit to beat the over-shift and that's having an impact. He won't get to 50 HR this season, but will still have 30+ with a bunch of doubles.

[InstantKarmma]

Maybe he's adjusted a bit to beat the over-shift and that's having an impact.

That's one of the reasons I posed the question. Last season he hit 9 doubles to left and left/center at Fenway. He's hit the same number of doubles in the same location so far this season at home.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

That's one of the reasons I posed the question. Last season he hit 9 doubles to left and left/center at Fenway. He's hit the same number of doubles in the same location so far this season at home.

And if that's the case I'd argue that's a good thing. His ratio of doubles to HRs appears to be inversely proportional. His doubles totals in '04 and '05 were 47 and 40 respectively; the dropoff of that total to 29 last year might mean that his increase in home runs was offset somewhat by his sacrificing of doubles to reach the mark of 54. He increased his homers by 7 in 2006 but lost 11 doubles in the process.

If he increases his doubles total back up to the 40+ range and still clubs 40+ HRs, like he did in '04 and '05, that's still an incredibly valuable player.

[splendid splinter]

I'd say the balky hamstrings are the primary culprit in his HR drought. I popped a hamstring a few years ago playing softball, and it bothered me for the rest of the season. That kind of injury really eats into your ability to drive the ball, since you can't load up on your back leg at all. Plus, he has that crouched batting stance - hamstring woes could hinder that as well, and keep him from getting to and turning on those low pitches that he loves to drive so much.

[Marbleheader]

The footage of Ortiz in the batting cage last night was a bit disturbing. He's clearly not anywhere near 100% right now. His slugging is down to .576 from .636 a month ago.

His game logs over the past month or so:

Ortiz Game Logs

[td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"] [/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0.317[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0.418[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0.615[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1.033[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"] May 2[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]OAK[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#0000FF"]W 6-4[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]4[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]2[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"] [/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0.31[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0.41[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0.61[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1.02[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"] May 1[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]OAK[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#0000FF"]L 4-5[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]5[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]2[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"] [/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0.302[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0.402[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]0.604[/color] [/td][td=*][color="#000000"]1.006[/color] [/td]

Date	Opponent	Score	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	K	SB	CS		AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Jun 3	NYY	L 5-6	5	1	1	0	0	0	1	0	1	0	0		0.325	0.437	0.576	1.013
Jun 2	NYY	W 11-6	4	2	2	1	0	0	0	1	0	0	0		0.328	0.442	0.586	1.028
Jun 1	NYY	L 5-9	4	1	3	0	0	0	1	1	1	0	0		0.324	0.439	0.582	1.021
Date	Opponent	Score	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	K	SB	CS		AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
May 30	CLE	L 4-8	4	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0		0.315	0.431	0.579	1.009
May 26	@ TEX	W 7-4	4	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0		0.316	0.434	0.586	1.02
May 25	@ TEX	W 10-6	4	1	2	1	0	0	1	1	0	0	0		0.324	0.44	0.6	1.04
May 23	@ NYY	L 3-8	3	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	0	0		0.319	0.436	0.596	1.032
May 22	@ NYY	W 7-3	4	1	3	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0		0.325	0.439	0.607	1.047
May 21	@ NYY	L 2-6	2	0	1	1	0	0	2	2	0	0	0		0.314	0.433	0.604	1.037
May 20	ATL	W 6-3	4	1	1	1	0	0	1	0	1	0	0		0.312	0.429	0.599	1.027
May 19	ATL	L 0-14	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	0	0		0.314	0.432	0.601	1.034
May 19	ATL	W 13-3	3	2	3	1	0	0	0	1	0	0	0		0.32	0.436	0.613	1.05
May 17	DET	W 2-1	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	0	0		0.306	0.424	0.599	1.022
May 15	DET	L 2-7	4	0	1	1	0	0	0	0	1	0	0		0.313	0.428	0.611	1.039
May 14	DET	W 7-1	5	1	2	1	0	0	1	0	0	0	0		0.314	0.432	0.614	1.046
May 13	BAL	W 6-5	3	1	1	1	0	0	1	1	0	0	0		0.311	0.433	0.615	1.048
May 12	BAL	W 13-4	4	3	2	1	0	0	1	1	0	0	0		0.311	0.431	0.614	1.045
May 11	BAL	L 3-6	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	3	2	0	0		0.305	0.426	0.609	1.035
May 10	@ TOR	W 8-0	4	1	1	1	0	0	2	0	0	0	0		0.31	0.42	0.619	1.039
May 9	@ TOR	W 9-3	5	1	4	1	0	1	3	0	1	0	0		0.311	0.425	0.623	1.048
May 8	@ TOR	W 9-2	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	2	0	0	0		0.291	0.411	0.581	0.993
May 6	@ MIN	W 4-3	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	3	0	0	0		0.298	0.412	0.596	1.008
May 5	@ MIN	L 1-2	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	2	0	0		0.304	0.405	0.607	1.012
May 4	@ MIN	W 2-0	3	1	1	0	0	1	1	1	1	0	0		0.318	0.421	0.636	1.056
May 3	SEA	W 8-7	4	0	2	1

It will be interesting to see how the team handles him, particularly with a large lead right now. While he's not hitting for power, he is still getting on base. He took 3 games off but that obviously wasn't enough. I'd prefer to see him take this series off, but with Drew out, substituting Wily Mo for Ortiz leaves the team a little too right-handed. So, do they wait for Drew to return, and DH him since he's coming back from a hamstring injury himself? Get Hinske some at bats and hope for the best?

[yecul]

Morgan of all people had some good commentary on him last night. Ortiz is/was using his upper body to generate power. If his legs are bothering him then it makes sense that he's not able to use his legs as much.

The important thing is whether this is a mechanical issue or a health one.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I think it's at least partially mechanical: his back leg was in a different position last night than it has been in the past. The pitch he got from Rivera is one he usually blasts out of the park; last night he couldn't generate any leg drive and the ball fell 5 feet short.

I'm sure the gift triple from Abreau didn't help matters.

[xjack]

Morgan of all people had some good commentary on him last night. Ortiz is/was using his upper body to generate power. If his legs are bothering him then it makes sense that he's not able to use his legs as much.

The important thing is whether this is a mechanical issue or a health one.

The ESPN video of Papi wincing and stretching during BP was more than a little concerning. I worry that a 15-day DL stint may be necessary -- hopefully it's something they can put off till a week before the All-Star break in order to minimize the games he'll miss.

[5dice]

I worry that a 15-day DL stint may be necessary -- hopefully it's something they can put off till a week before the All-Star break in order to minimize the games he'll miss.

Something is not right.
DL should be done now.

Net effects:

Gets Papi healthy for the future we hope.

Wily Mo gets more at bats in a rotation of DH/LF/RF to rest Manny and Drew off and on while still having them hit.

Call up Murphy or Moss to see if there is anything to "showcase" for a later trade.



Sort of ironic the injury may have stemmed from dehydration.
The marketing folks at Vitamin Water can't be happy.

[happybooker99]

A DL stint for Papi that corresponds to a period of interleague play is not bad timing -- not as good as the All Star Break, but not bad. Rest him now.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

The ESPN video of Papi wincing and stretching during BP was more than a little concerning. I worry that a 15-day DL stint may be necessary -- hopefully it's something they can put off till a week before the All-Star break in order to minimize the games he'll miss.

I'm all for resting him during the upcoming interleague games instead of trying to wait for the All-Star break -- and I don't want to see the situation worsened by his playing the field this month. There are 3 series in NL parks coming up (AZ, ATL, SD) and 2 back at Fenway (COL, SF). I think there's enough depth on the roster to win each one of those series, even without Papi. As always, it'll come down to pitching, and I think the Sox starters will really shine against the NL lineups. Gotta hope Drew can stay off the DL now, though -- though as bad as he has been on D and at the dish, I think it might be okay to trot out Brandon Moss in RF during the home series when Manny can DH. Thank goodness Wily Mo and Hinske haven't been traded, as they are about as good a couple of backup hitters as you can hope for...

[xjack]

Call up Murphy or Moss to see if there is anything to "showcase" for a later trade.

I like this idea. I could see Moss surprising over a short period -- sort of like Andre Ethier last year for the Dodgers -- and creating some good trade value in the process.

[NYCSox]

A DL stint for Papi that corresponds to a period of interleague play is not bad timing -- not as good as the All Star Break, but not bad. Rest him now.

Especially road interleague games. You don't want him in the field anyway with a bad hammy so that would be the most optimal time.

Edit: And Murphy is a good idea. The Sox could use a good defensive OF on the bench.

Edited by NYCSox, 04 June 2007 - 10:31 AM.

[xjack]

Especially road interleague games. You don't want him in the field anyway with a bad hammy so that would be the most optimal time.

Yeah, I actually like this idea better than waiting for the All-Star break. Over the 15 days between June 8th and June 23rd, the Sox have two off days and eight away interleague games.

[Fred not Lynn]

Yeah, I actually like this idea better than waiting for the All-Star break. Over the 15 days between June 8th and June 23rd, the Sox have two off days and eight away interleague games.

That's the beauty of a 10+ game lead - you can rest guys when problems start, rather than waiting for them to snowball into sometimes BIGGER problems. Just as it was important to use last year's "garbage time" at the end of the season productively, it is important to actually take advantage of this big lead to make sure everyone is rested, ready and sharp come playoff time....while being very careful not to let any signifigant part of the lead slip away.

[SouthernBoSox]

His lower body isn't there right now. He even added a toe tap in his first AB, which was something he hasn't done since his days with the Twins. He is on top of everything, his legs just aren't letting him drive the ball. A trip to the DL with a call-up of Moss seems like a decent move to me, letting Manny DH and Moss play in the OF.

[TheoShmeo]

His lower body isn't there right now. He even added a toe tap in his first AB, which was something he hasn't done since his days with the Twins. He is on top of everything, his legs just aren't letting him drive the ball. A trip to the DL with a call-up of Moss seems like a decent move to me, letting Manny DH and Moss play in the OF.

I don't know if that's necessary or not, but if they're going to do it, they should do it to coincide with their 9 games in NL parks in June as much as possible. And if they're indeed thinking about this, I'm sure the NL park schedule isn't lost on them.

[maceeight]

I don't know if that's necessary or not, but if they're going to do it, they should do it to coincide with their 9 games in NL parks in June as much as possible. And if they're indeed thinking about this, I'm sure the NL park schedule isn't lost on them.

Fantastic idea. I'm really starting to think that he should go to the DL. With our lead I really don't want him pushing it and getting hurt worse. We're gonna need the big guy at the end of the year. Get him healthy now while we have a comfort zone. If Papi was 100% that ball would have gone out last night.