86 replies to this topic

[gcapalbo]

I've just stumbled across The 'CommCensus Sports Map Project' which attempts to map allegiances to different sports teams, based on geographic regions.

Basically, this is a corrolary to thier main project, which attempts to define boundaries for cities not based on city, town, state or political boundaries, but instead on one's opinion of what you feel is 'the Boston area', for example.

They have extended this to sports allegiances, where you pretty much 'vote' for the team that you follow. They tabulate the results, and generate a map based on the regional votes.

Check out the mlb map:



Of note:

* "Red Sox Nation" is all of New England, except for a corner of CT, but also contains a large portion of upstate NY.
* *FY 'Nation' is a lot smaller geographically than RSN
* There doesn't seem to be much of a geographic area for the Mets in NYC, other than Long Island.
* Ditto for the White Sox in Chicago, but the CUBS also are popular in a large area of Arizona, in addition to Chicago.
* The Washington Nationals have an instant huge region compared to the Orioles, basically from South of Baltimore down into North Carolina. I bet that goes over well in Baltimore.

Check out the CommonCensus Sports Map Project for MLB

(edit: Dopes, feel free to move this to P&G if not deemed worthy for the main board)

Edited by gcapalbo, 17 October 2005 - 11:36 AM.

[staz]

Albany, NY? Red Sox Country?
Nope.

[Papi's Mango Salsa]

So basically a White Sox - Astros World Series has no national appeal at all. Really just those in the lower corner of hurricane ravaged Texas and Louisianna.

[Ted Cox 4 president]

D-backs get NO love.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Cubs have spring training in Mesa.

[Ramon AC]

I believe the Cubs were the first team to hold spring training in AZ.

[ObstructedView]

Quote

How do the Cubs have so many fans in Arizona?

I don't know how they came up with that shading; that part of Arizona is barely populated. But there are a lot of transplanted Chicagoans in the Phoenix area. There are a lot of other people there who moved from elsewhere (often to retire), but for some reason Cubs fans have a particularly strong presence.

EDIT: As others have mentioned, there's a long-running spring training connection.

Edited by ObstructedView, 17 October 2005 - 11:51 AM.

[DeltaForce]

There's no way that the Red Sox dominate that much of Connecticut. Certainly everything in the NYC commuting area (New Haven and west) is overwhelmingly pro-Yankee. I'm not sure where the "line" is, but I've assumed it's somewhere in the Middletown/Hartford vicinity.

[67WasBest]

Corsi Combover, on Oct 17 2005, 12:44 PM, said:

How do the Cubs have so many fans in Arizona?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Arizona is the #1 retirement destination for Chicagoans and the ST facility.

The Florida allocation is a joke. There are far more Sox and MFY fans in Florida than baseball fans of either FL franchise. For that matter, I know more Tigers and Indians fans here than DRay or Marlin fans.

Edited by 67WasBest, 17 October 2005 - 11:57 AM.

[redinchicago]

As someone who works in the map industry, this guy really needs to work on the specs. Especially color. Once he collects more data he should try to break it down to counties, similar to the coca-cola/pop/soda map.

[xjack]

If the Red Sox played half their home games in Tampa, anyone else think they'd out-draw the D-Ras on a regular basis?

[Paul M]

The key is to convert to population...and then re-run it.

Yeah, the mapping and coding needs a major re-work.

Kind of cool to see, and I do think a White-Sox-Astros World Series will do fairly well ratings-wise.

[mr guido]

Cool idea. This is only based on 2500 votes though.

[sox311]

In South Idaho, Oakland fans according to the map, I have met 10 times more Sox fans than A's fans.

But that doesn't matter. South Idaho is 99.9% Mariner fans. End of discussion concerning my state.

[CurseOfMattYoung]

Also, to answer the Cubs-AZ question, in addition to the Spring Training and transplant factor, WGN and their Cubs broadcasts were the first major out-of-town network carried by Phoenix basic cable. So even if you never went to ST, if you wanted to watch a baseball game in Phoenix pre-DBacks, it was the Cubs or nothing.

[kderen]

How many shades of red are in that map?

Are the random red sploches in the northwest Red Sox colors or some other?

[Fratboy]

I hope this doesn't degenerate into some kind of "red state"/"blue state" discussion.

<laugh track>

[Sportsbstn]

Nice colors. So by this map the Colorado Rockies have the largest fan coverage? I wonder if the animals in those wooded areas can vote as well

[ragnarok725]

8, on Oct 17 2005, 12:48 PM, said:

Youd be surprised,western Ma and the Albany area have a lot of Sox fans

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like me! Goin to school near Albany though... I'd say it's close to 50/50. It makes sense that the line seems to be drawn right around here.

Edited by ragnarok725, 17 October 2005 - 12:38 PM.

[ShoelessJoe]

It appears as if the black points on the map represent respondents. For example: It looks like Montana has four respondents. One likes the Mariners, another the Twins, another the Rockies and the last a Cubs fan. Thus it appears (because of the size of the state) that there are huge swaths of Cubs fans in Montana, when in reality it's likely just one person.

As the organizer writes on the site, it hasn't got much data from rural areas. That's why upstate New York looks like Red Sox Nation. It looks like about six people responded from the Albany area, the majority being Sox fans (all? 4? 5? I don't know the methodology.)

I hope people continue to vote, as this looks like it could be a neat project with more data.

Also the colors REALLY need to be changed. Too many Red hues, especially in the central states. The Cubs/Reds/Indians mix is particularly egregious.

Edited by ShoelessJoe, 17 October 2005 - 12:43 PM.

[Fratboy]

ragnarok725, on Oct 17 2005, 01:37 PM, said:

Like me! Goin to school near Albany though... I'd say it's close to 50/50. It makes sense that the line seems to be drawn right around here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The interesting thing about this is the apparent abundance of Red Sox fans in upstate New York without an over-the-air radio presence (am I correct in this regard?) or non-digital/satellite/premium tv packages.

EDIT: Eh, never mind. Just saw the spots. Whatever.

Edited by Fratboy, 17 October 2005 - 12:47 PM.

[Maalox]

gcapalbo, on Oct 17 2005, 12:31 PM, said:

Check out the mlb map:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are splotches of some red colour in west-central Nebraska, north-central and southwest Montana and southeastern Idaho that are not dark enough to be the Twins. They look like the Cubs. Another strip in western Arkansas that is too light to be the Cardinals.

What are those grey splotches in Iowa?

Everyone I know in New Orleans is an Astros fan. The Zephyrs are an Astro farm team.

Not at all surprised that so much of NYState is Red Sox country. I think this has been the case for some time.

[staz]

Fratboy, on Oct 17 2005, 01:42 PM, said:

The interesting thing about this is the apparent abundance of Red Sox fans in upstate New York without an over-the-air radio presence (am I correct in this regard?) or non-digital/satellite/premium tv packages.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look, Albany, NY is heavy Yankee country. HEAVY. Sure, there are "a lot" of Sox fans everywhere, but for every Sox fan in Albany, there are a hundred Yankee fans.

Just because I know 4 guys who like the Vikings (I do) doesn't mean Pittsfield, MA is Viking Territory.

[ShoelessJoe]

staz, on Oct 17 2005, 01:48 PM, said:

Look, Albany, NY is heavy Yankee country. HEAVY. Sure, there are "a lot" of Sox fans everywhere, but for every Sox fan in Albany, there are a hundred Yankee fans.

Just because I know 4 guys who like the Vikings (I do) doesn't mean Pittsfield, MA is Viking Territory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But if your four friends are the only ones who vote in the poll, it's going to look like Viking Territory. See my post above.

[Jerrygarciaparra]

My former college roommate lives in Lancaster PA and according to him there are a number of Orioles fans in that area. I think AL fans in that area tend to be Orioles fans ...

[CarboCopy]

Obviously this is a flawed survey, with self-selected respondents. One consequence of that is that the final data reflect factors external to fandom. For example, yanqui fans are underrepresented, especially in upstate NY, because they lack the requisite mental facilities to vote.

Check out the voting by team. That I think is a much more accurate gauge of teams' popularity.

[sox311]

I just showed this to my Boss who has lived in San Fran area and said how ludacirs is is showing all the A's territory. Can we just chalk this up as useless?

[singaporesoxfan]

Quote

There doesn't seem to be much of a geographic area for the Mets in NYC, other than Long Island

Looks like Queens and Brooklyn are Mets areas, and the non-NYC sections of Long Island are largely Yankees areas, which would make sense.

[PedroKsBambino]

I had a buddy in the Bay Area say the same thing. I, of course, told him to try to vote in it!

It's not useless, but it's very much imperfect, IMO

[Talon]

the biggest glaring problem I see with this map IMO is The Braves, they should have the area going right down to Orlando, since the Braves have ST in Orlando and they have a HUGE following in that part of Florida. Also there is a good number of Braves fans here in the Boston area, sure not nearly as many as the Sox, but remember theres a lot of old timers and even baby boomers who were raised as Braves fans and still root for them.

[Southpaw67]

Evidently, the White Sox have NO fans. They sure have gone to a lot of trouble for nothing

FWIW any client I have had who hailed from Chicago has had a second home in Arizona, so seeing the Cubs heavily represented down there does not surprise me at all.

All of you who live outside of RSN 'proper' need to go and vote so we can see where else pockets of Red Sox fanatics will show up.

[BGrif21125]

Corsi Combover, on Oct 17 2005, 12:44 PM, said:

How do the Cubs have so many fans in Arizona?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure someone from AZ could give a better answer, but from what I understand, there are huge numbers of Chicago transplants living in AZ. Just like certain parts of FL are all retirees from NY and New England, parts of AZ are all retirees from the Chicago area. Over the past few decades, AZ has experienced a popualtion explosion in general, but I think the largest amount of people are from the Midwest.

EDIT: And BTW, why are the Dbacks not represtented at all? You're telling me people in southern AZ root for the Padres? Doesn't seem to make sense.

Edited by BGrif21125, 17 October 2005 - 01:31 PM.

[CTD525]

The Albany Times Union did a survey last year where the results found that 35% of the area were Yankee fans, 23% were Red Sox fans, 16% were Mets, and the rest went under "other." The building I live in has 8 units. 6 of them house Red Sox fans.

[PortlandSoxFan]

staz, on Oct 17 2005, 12:40 PM, said:

Albany, NY? Red Sox Country?
Nope.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe not, but not to far up 87 and it starts to be. When I was in school outside of Utica, Channel 38 was part of basic cable...so those people saw a lot of Sox games. I knew quite a few people who were natives of that area and were Sox fans.

[drtooth]

Looking at that map, there is the potential for a mass suicide at FOX executive headquarters if the Astro's clinch tonight. Hmmmmm....let's see. Two teams with little fan base (according to the map), potentially microscopic WS ratings, McCarver and Buck. I would say that is a TV exec's version of hell on earth

[Talon]

drtooth, on Oct 17 2005, 02:14 PM, said:

Looking at that map, there is the potential for a mass suicide at FOX executive headquarters if the Astro's clinch tonight. Hmmmmm....let's see.  Two teams with little fan base (according to the map), potentially microscopic WS ratings, McCarver and Buck.  I would say that is a TV exec's version of hell on earth

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

indeed, then the people who replace those execs see Clemens & Pettitte on the Astros roster, and breathe a collective sigh of relief

[Lose Remerswaal]

Maalox, on Oct 17 2005, 01:45 PM, said:

What are those grey splotches in Iowa?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Avian flu?

[Fratboy]

BGrif21125, on Oct 17 2005, 02:08 PM, said:

I'm sure someone from AZ could give a better answer, but from what I understand, there are huge numbers of Chicago transplants living in AZ. Just like certain parts of FL are all retirees from NY and New England, parts of AZ are all retirees from the Chicago area. Over the past few decades, AZ has experienced a popualtion explosion in general, but I think the largest amount of people are from the Midwest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We moved from Chicago (Wheaton) to Phoenix (Scottsdale) in 1986. I didn't know anybody else from the Chicago area when I was in middle school, and we didn't have a huge influx of kids my age from the midwest.

[Paul M]

Not for nothing, but many longtime members of this site--including 2 dopes--lived or live in up-state NY and say it's very well populated with Sox fans, and WSBK 38 definitely had to play a role. Also, getting to Fenway is not that much further.

[sonsoftrotnixon]

Paul M, on Oct 17 2005, 02:30 PM, said:

Not for nothing, but many longtime members of this site--including 2 dopes--lived or live in up-state NY and say it's very well populated with Sox fans, and WSBK 38 definitely had to play a role. Also, getting to Fenway is not that much further.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I live in western NY (near Rochester), and it's mainly populated by Yankee fans, however Sox fans rate a close second. Although it's hard to tell given that after last October then number of "sox fans" increased a great deal. The bandwagon filled up quick.

[mtague22]

staz, on Oct 17 2005, 04:40 PM, said:

Albany, NY? Red Sox Country?
Nope.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only 3 Sox fans I know/knew in the Albany area are myself and two brothers. I once asked my older brother how we became Sox fans living outside of Albany and he told me we were able to see more Sox games on TV than Yankees games. Go figure.

[Spacemans Bong]

My aunt lives in rural upstate NY (about halfway between Albany and Cooperstown - dynamite for visiting the Hall), and says there's a lot of Red Sox fans.

Besides the reach of WSBK - it is on cable, and YES is not - there is also a lot of antimatter towards New York City and its hold on the state, and what's more anti-NY than the Red Sox?

Furthermore, just to pile on, the A's have nowhere near that many fans. Sports Illustrated did it best - they polled NorCal, and it was 75% Giants, 16% A's and the rest are other.

At a guess, I'd say the A's fanbase is the East Bay, and then the strip of I-80 leading to Sacramento, as well as Modesto (which has an A's farm team) and Stockton. That's it. Everywhere else is completely Giants, and even the A's catchment area has a very large minority of Giant fans.

The A's are basically proof of why teams need to invest in radio and TV, because the Giants have an enormous radio network (as well as a 50,000 watt flagship) that reaches the entire state, while the A's are on a Christian music station and have about five affiliates.

It's a shame this isn't that well done, because who supports what team and where has always been interesting to me, the demographics and what not.

[ragnarok725]

staz, on Oct 17 2005, 01:48 PM, said:

Look, Albany, NY is heavy Yankee country. HEAVY. Sure, there are "a lot" of Sox fans everywhere, but for every Sox fan in Albany, there are a hundred Yankee fans.

Just because I know 4 guys who like the Vikings (I do) doesn't mean Pittsfield, MA is Viking Territory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Living in the Albany area, I'm just not sure that's the case. I've seen as many Sox caps as Yankee hats. The bars seem to be split 50/50. Maybe the Sox fans are just more hardcore, but then again, why should we be counting the"fans" who don't give a crap about baseball, but still say they're a fan of a certain team when they're asked? There are those everywhere.

[LahoudOrBillyC]

Spacemans Bong, on Oct 17 2005, 12:14 PM, said:

Furthermore, just to pile on, the A's have nowhere near that many fans. Sports Illustrated did it best - they polled NorCal, and it was 75% Giants, 16% A's and the rest are other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet in 1988 it was quite different. Much like NYC was 75% Mets fans 15 years ago.

[Spacemans Bong]

LahoudOrBillyC, on Oct 17 2005, 12:17 PM, said:

I bet in 1988 it was quite different.  Much like NYC was 75% Mets fans 15 years ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There were probably more self-idenitified A's fans in 1988 than today, but the Giants have always been far, far more popular. At best, in 1988 is was like 2/3rds Giant fans.

The A's had better attendance during that time, but one has to note that the Oakland Coliseum, pre-Davis, was a very nice place to watch a baseball game, while Candlestick had been widely derided (with merit) as a freezing, decrepit hellhole. It is important to note that when the Giants got good, they were basically drawing the same crowds as the A's in their prime, even though the Giants were playing more day games than any other team in the majors besides the Cubs because the night time weather was so bad.

I've also always held there are far more Met fans in NY than believed. They did outdraw the Yanks 21 times in their first 29 years.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 17 October 2005 - 02:23 PM.

[satyadaimoku]

Not only are the Red Sox winning in terms of overall popularity (topping the Cubs, 405-365, with the Yankees in 3rd at 272) but the New England Patriots are also on top, above (surprise, surprise) the Chicago Bears, 307-242, with the Yankeeish Dallas Cowboys coming in third at 220.

Anyway, the voting is all self-selected, so the map doesn't really mean much. Boston and Chicago fans are probably just more likely to waste time online with sites like that. I seriously doubt that, even after two consecutive Super Bowl victories, the Patriots are even close in popularity to the Redskins, Cowboys, or even the Eagles.

[gaelgirl]

Spacemans Bong, on Oct 17 2005, 07:23 PM, said:

The A's had better attendance during that time, but one has to note that the Oakland Coliseum, pre-Davis, was a very nice place to watch a baseball game, while Candlestick had been widely derided (with merit) as a freezing, decrepit hellhole. It is important to note that when the Giants got good, they were basically drawing the same crowds as the A's in their prime, even though the Giants were playing more day games than any other team in the majors besides the Cubs because the night time weather was so bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only thing accurate about that map regarding the A's is that all the fans are located outside of the Bay Area. It is very difficult to find an A's fan anywhere here. They probably have more fans in Sacramento (their AAA club is there) and the Delta region than they do in the East Bay. The Giants have been here longer and built up a huge fanbase. Plus, like Bonger said, they have that 50,000 flagship station that can be heard as far away as Oregon and Nevada on a good night. I have heard Hawaii is Giants-dominated as well.

This map project will be more interesting when they get more respondents. I have a very difficult time believing the Diamondbacks and White Sox have no fanbase.

Edited by gaelgirl, 17 October 2005 - 03:02 PM.