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Yanks Offseason moves?


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#651 glennhoffmania


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Posted 10 January 2006 - 05:52 PM

glen: I understand what you're saying, but I still disagree with you basically because of your statement that "If I kept preaching  to my friends and co-workers that i could never go to work for out biggest competitor....."
if Damon had done that, I suppose I would see more of your point.  As far as I know, though, and I could be wrong, he didn't "keep preaching" anything but just made a comment once to some reporter.

So to be more accurate, your line should  read "If I once made a comment to my friends and co-workers a pretty long time ago....."

To me there's a gigantic difference.  Now I might be wrong here, and maybe Damon kept harping on the fact that he would never play for the Yankees. if that's the case, I stand corrected. if not, I still don't see why anyone would be upset by what he did other than the obvious fact that he chose not to accept the Sox' offer for reasons of loyalty---and I sure don't fault him for that.

edit: also, when I saw Damon being interviewed, I don't think he seemed shocked at all that people were calling him on what he did. he seemed to have a pretty good grasp of why Red sox fans were disappointed and annoyed.

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I hear what you're saying. I guess I was exaggerating for effect. All I know is, once he made those comments, and said he'd rather retire if he couldn't sign with one of two or three specific teams, I assumed that was the truth until I heard otherwise.

Also, I didn't mean to direct my question at Damon personally, even though I guess I actually did say he shouldn't be shocked. I was speaking more to the people who think we have no reason to be upset with him. And if even Damon understands why Sox fans are disappointed and annoyed, why is it so tough for other Sox fans to understand it? I don't think he's now some sort of villain, but I certainly think he deserves some flack.

#652 BGrif21125

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 06:55 PM

Don't know if this is exactly main board worthy, but didn't think it deserved a whole thread in P&G either....

I was just watching Rangers-Penguins highlights on ESPNEWS, and I guess Damon was at the game today, and when they showed him on the big screen at MSG, the whole place booed.

#653 Pumpsie


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Posted 28 January 2006 - 07:16 PM

Don't know if this is exactly main board worthy, but didn't think it deserved a whole thread in P&G either....

I was just watching Rangers-Penguins highlights on ESPNEWS, and I guess Damon was at the game today, and when they showed him on the big screen at MSG, the whole place booed.

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Heh heh.

Nobody likes a turncoat.

When the Damon signing was first announced, there was a significant number of Yankee fans who didn't like it.

I'm really looking forward to this season.

Edited by Pumpsie, 28 January 2006 - 07:18 PM.


#654 Snowplow

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 08:00 PM

I don't think the whining was about Damon going to the Yankees, though. It was because of how he went about it....all the crap about how he wouldn't accept their money / money didn't matter / would accept a fair offer from the Sox, etc, etc. Why tell the fans all that if you didn't mean it? It's insulting. It's fine to be all about the money; just don't pretend it isn't.

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Talk about hitting the nail right on the head Rudy.......These are direct quotes from Damon....i like Damon,but I cant RESPECT him.

#655 jacklamabe65


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Posted 28 January 2006 - 09:08 PM

Johnny Damon has no idea what's in store for him. Even the Yankee fans in my school - Middle Schoolers all - say "he doesn't even look like Johnny Damon anymore plus he's a Red Sock. I can never fully cheer for him."

Ol' Johnny's head will be spinning by mid-season particularly when he visits Fenway and realizes that Coco Crisp is the new darling of Red Sox Nation.

He's an idiot all right.

Edited by jacklamabe65, 28 January 2006 - 09:27 PM.


#656 dauber23

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 09:28 PM

Johnny Damon has no idea what's in store for him.  Even the Yankee fans in my school - Middle Schoolers all - say "he doesn't even look like Johnny Damon anymore plus he's a Red Sock.  I can never fully cheer for him."  Ol' Johnny's head will be spinning by mid-season particularly when he visits Fenway and realizes that Coco Crisp is the new darling of Red Sox Nation.

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I wonder if Michelle Damon will do fashion features on YES?

One of the best things about Damon's move to the Yanks is no more Michelle on NESN!!!!!!

Quick poll--Michelle Damon or Anna Benson?

Answer: None of the above.

#657 Gambler7

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 09:34 PM

I echo the sentiments of several here about Yankee fans not at all being thrilled with signing Damon. I happened to be out last night with several Yankee fans and all of them were either not happy or very skeptical of the move. Far from thrilled.

I also echo what Schilling said in his e-mail exchange with Bill Simmons

"I can't fathom, can't even begin to comprehend how a guy can move from one of these teams [Boston/N.Y.] to the other. The only reason I can see someone doing this is because the money means enough that you are ready endure the repercussions. It's basically saying 'Kiss my butt' to the fans of one of the cities. Having said that, I don't blame anyone for doing this, it's their choice, their right, they earned it, and that's how this all works."

It happened so quick with Damon it seems he didn't even realize what had happened. I can't imagine he is happy with how things have gone thus far, although having a good season can put any of that behind him.

Edited by Gambler7, 28 January 2006 - 09:35 PM.


#658 dauber23

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 09:39 PM

I echo the sentiments of several here about Yankee fans not at all being thrilled with signing Damon. I happened to be out last night with several Yankee fans and all of them were either not happy or very skeptical of the move. Far from thrilled.

I also echo what Schilling said in his e-mail exchange with Bill Simmons

It happened so quick with Damon it seems he didn't even realize what had happened. I can't imagine he is happy with how things have gone thus far, although having a good season can put any of that behind him.

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I think Schill was wrong about guys not being able to go from the Sox to the Yanks. Sparky Lyle did it back when the rivalry was more intense than it is now. Boggs did it. Clemens did it.

I think these guys have loyalties to teammates, but not to ball clubs, and not to fans.

If Damon plays well for the Yankees, the fans will love him there. Just like Sox fans will love Covelli--if he performs!

#659 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 28 January 2006 - 09:56 PM

I think Schill was wrong about guys not being able to go from the Sox to the Yanks. Sparky Lyle did it back when the rivalry was more intense than it is now. Boggs did it. Clemens did it.

I think these guys have loyalties to teammates, but not to ball clubs, and not to fans.

If Damon plays well for the Yankees, the fans will love him there. Just like Sox fans will love Covelli--if he performs!

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Not really the same situations.

Lyle was traded to the Yankees for the immortal Danny Cater.

Boggs signed with the Yankees after the Red Sox never bothered to make him an offer when he became a free agent. After all, the Sox had Scott Cooper.

Clemens did not go directly from the Red Sox to the Yankees; he signed with Toronto and then forced a trade after 2 years.

#660 DJnVa


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Posted 28 January 2006 - 10:33 PM

But I thought the players didn't care about the rivalry, just us fans? If that's the case, Schilling must be part of a small group that couldn't see jumping from to the other.

#661 soxfaninyankeeland


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Posted 29 January 2006 - 12:43 AM

Sparky Lyle did it back when the rivalry was more intense than it is now.

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Lyle's first year in NY was 1972. The Yankees had had one good year (1970, 2nd AL East) out of the previous seven. The Sox had been just okay, just okay, since '67, finishing 4th in '68 and then 3rd three times. I was just a toddler at the time, but I doubt the rivalry was "more intense than it is now".

#662 EricM80

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 02:11 AM

How many times have we seen this movie play out before? The Yankees make a supersized move over the offseason that vaults them back into first place in the AL East, and back into the Fall Classic in all the preseason media predictions, and in the minds of fans nationwide.

With Johnny Damon supplanting Bernie Williams in center, this team simply can't lose. This lineup is the new Murderer's Row. World Series number 27 is simply on layaway, guaranteed to be delivered in late October. Fans of baseball parity everywhere are outraged yet again. Another title bought by George Steinbrenner's greed.

Funny the critics said all those things last year when the Bombers acquired lefty starter Randy Johnson. Johnson was last seen in the Bronx coughing up Game 3 of the ALDS to the tune of an early, ugly 5-0 deficit. The Yankee bats responded to seemingly bail out their aging ace, but the Angels had already sunk their teeth in, and would not relent until they had the game and the series.

In '04, the Yankees surely were on their way to title number 27. With the acquisitions of Gary Sheffield, and the game's ultimate five-tool player, Alex Rodriguez, how could they lose? Their hated rivals, the then-cursed Red Sox, were left fuming as the Yankees swooped in and stole A-Rod from right under their nose, as the Sox had tried and failed all winter to lock up Rodriguez. Yet the Yankees ultimately stole the star shortstop's heart on that Valentine's Day, and Boston was left with more questions of The Curse. Curt Schilling to Boston seemed like a footnote compared to this signing, many seemed to think. Eight months later, on a Yankee Stadium uncharacteristically engulfed in fans and players all wearing red, I think we all remember how that turned out.

2003 saw the Yankees import their star talent, but still with the same buzz. Highly-coveted Cuban pitcher Jose Contreras, and the Japanese star known as Godzilla, Hideki Matsui, had both signed with the Yankees. Adding Contreras to a rotation that already had Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Mike Mussina, and David Wells would spell doom for American League hitters, while Matsui in an already overwhelmingly powerful lineup would provide an endless barrage of home runs with which to dominate the game of baseball. As it turned out, they held their breath and hung on for dear life against Boston in the ALCS in what may have been Babe Ruth's final masterpiece from the great beyond. Then a staggering, exhausted Yankee team was swallowed up by The Little Marlins Team That Could in the '03 Fall Classic.

In 2002, Jason Giambi said goodbye to his home and newfound fame and popularity in Oakland to shave the facial hair (and with it, his personality). The-Yankees-are-bad-for-baseball bandwagon was in full swing. How could any other team win a championship if the Yankees had such a monopoly on big-name free agents? How could it be right to so blatantly buy another title in this manner?

Giambi's right field pull swing at Yankee Stadium surely spelled murder to any team that opposed them. Especially when they were putting their postseason leads in the hands of such reliable veterans as Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez, (back-to-back home runs by Garrett Anderson and Troy Glaus in the eighth inning of Game 2 at home), Mike Mussina, (a 6-1 lead turning into a 9-6 loss in Game 3), and David Wells (serving up 8 runs in the fifth inning of Game 4). And yes, this loss came to an Angels team that was pre-Vlad Guerrero. Giambi batted .357 in the four-game series with 1 HR and 3 RBIs. Few fans can actually remember any of those hits.

Finally, what could have been more certain than 2001? The core of the Yankee dynasty was still intact, and in addition, the hot new acquisition was Mike Mussina to their already solid pitching rotation. To add that to the team of Chuck Knoblauch, Paul O'Neill, Scott Brosius, Andy Pettitte, Roger Clemens, Tino Martinez, Mike Stanton, and all the other beloved "true Yankees" of the past, the dynasty seemed headed for a fourth consecutive title ring.

Yet the team was nearly knocked out in the first round by a quick left-right combination from surprise contender Oakland before reaching the World Series where Arizona's Schilling and Johnson traded blows with ninth-inning Yankee rallies in what Baseball Tonight's Peter Gammons referred to as "the most implausible World Series of all-time." The ending certainly ensured that, as Mariano Rivera, who is commonly referred to as "the Hammer of God," gave up the tying and winning runs in the ninth inning of Game 7 of the World Series. Mussina's postseason was solid throughout, never suffering a loss, and even memorable, winning a brilliant 1-0 duel over Barry Zito in an elimination Game 3 of the ALDS. Yet he could not save them from their fate, and the dynasty has been in shambles ever since.

All of these blockbuster acquisitions, with the exception of Jose Contreras, who was last seen winning championships with his new friends by the south side of Chicago, have remained together on the Yankees. They simply add a new star every year, only to see what little difference it ultimately makes in the month of October. And with a legion of Yankee-hating baseball fans who believe that Brian Cashman and George Steinbrenner are the root of all evil (after all, they are the "Evil Empire," aren't they?) and unfairly buying championships, many forget that Major League Baseball has now had six different World Series champions over the past six years.

Between the Yankees, Diamondbacks, Angels, Marlins, Red Sox, and White Sox, the formula for winning in October has been written and expressed very differently from year to year. In fact, one may argue that a specific formula for such a task simply does not exist.

The White Sox won with superior pitching and minimal but timely hitting. The Angels of 2002 won almost entirely with a lineup that got hot at the right time and innings filled with six-, seven-, and eight-run rallies to overcome mediocre pitching. The Marlins won with a young, unproven pitching staff and a lineup of hitters who were strangers to the extra-base hit, but compensated with tons of aggression on the basepaths. Arizona won their rings almost entirely on the backs of their two-headed monster of Schilling and Johnson leading the pitching staff ... and one clutch ninth-inning rally.

There is also that elusive, inexplicable elixir known as team chemistry. It isn't entirely necessary to win, as the '70s Yankees once proved, and sometimes winning creates the illusion of chemistry. Yet since 2002, many have claimed that all of these all-stars the Yankees have accumulated have not, and will not mesh well together. Who knows what level or how much of an impact that will continue to have? But one thing is certain: there are no longer any guarantees for a Yankee team in October, regardless of what names show up on the opening day roster.



http://www.sports-ce...for_yankees.php

#663 67WasBest


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Posted 29 January 2006 - 04:10 AM

Lyle's first year in NY was 1972. The Yankees had had one good year (1970, 2nd AL East) out of the previous seven. The Sox had been just okay, just okay, since '67, finishing 4th in '68 and then 3rd three times. I was just a toddler at the time, but I doubt the rivalry was "more intense than it is now".

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I don't think what we have today comes close to the intensity of the late 70's. I wasn't a toddler and have very strong recollections of absolute HATRED, not just among the fans, but among the players. I remember comments of "couldn't have happened to a nicer guy" when Munson's plane crashed. Billy Martin's death was cause for a party among my circle of friends.

I had written out a confession of some of the criminal antics we pulled in those days with Yankee fans as victims, I decided against being that descriptive and deleted the paragraphs. Suffice it to say I rarely hear about anything today that comes close to the regularity with which I found myself in a physical confrontation with a Yankee fan. It just seemed natural to us crazy Townies who regularly fought each other to keep from being bored.

#664 GaryPeters71

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 11:51 AM

“I was a little disappointed in the reaction by the fans. I guess we should feel proud. Evidently wearing a Yankee uniform overrides winning a World Series and busting your tail for years. Without Johnny here, they may have been working on 89 or 90 years [without a championship]. It’s too bad they don’t appreciate that more so than they dislike the fact that he’s wearing our uniform.” -- Joe Torre

While I do agree with Joe that Damon should have received a better welcome from Red Sox fans last night, I hope Joe is fairhanded enough to knock Yankee fans if the following scenario takes place soon: Two-time World Series Champion Roger Clemens steps to the rubber at Yankee Stadium -- as a member of the Boston Red Sox.

#665 Cornboy14

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 12:53 PM

It already happened. David Wells, opening day last season. Booed badly by the Yankee "Faithful."

#666 86spike


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Posted 02 May 2006 - 12:57 PM

David Cone was also boo'd mercilessly.

FWIW... Mike and the Mad Dog were tearing Torre apart for those comments.

#667 Punchado


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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:09 PM

I feel like this whole thing is a bit of an ESPN creation. I don't think anyone really cares that much about what Damon did -- on either side. It's really only the extremely casual fan or little kid who was that into Damon. The rest of us realized that resigning him wasn't the smart move and don't hold it against him that he took the money and ran. I've never believed a word the guy said before why should I start feeling hurt that he lied about not playing for the Spanks?

The whole game was sold as "Damon's emmotional return to Fenway" but who exactly was it emmotional for? Damon? I'd guess not. The fans? Not really, it's not like Papi or Schilling or even Pedro playing for them. My guess is that ESPN had to sell an April game and they hooked into the Damon thing to get people to tune in. The most telling part of what happend when Damon batted for the first time is that a bunch of people booed and a bunch of people cheered, but it wasn't really that polarized either way. This is all much ado about nothing.

#668 yecul


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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:15 PM

People generally see the world with self-serving viewpoints and selective memory driving them. Torre is no different. Booing Damon is the same as Cleveland booing Manny to this day. Or, as was mentioned elsewhere, KC booing Damon, or...

The Yankee fans booing Cone and Wells cited above. Wells threw a perfect game. That is an incredibly unique and historic feat in a big year for them. Then again, he was cheered when he was over in SD, so Torre probably only considered that a valid example.

It's a hypocritical and one-sided viewpoint that deserves to be shot down.

#669 Papi's Mango Salsa

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 01:24 PM

Or even how about when the Yankee's faithfull booed Jeter during his slow start last year.

#670 NJ Fan

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 03:11 PM

The whole game was sold as "Damon's emmotional return to Fenway" but who exactly was it emmotional for?  Damon? I'd guess not.  The fans?  Not really, it's not like Papi or Schilling or even Pedro playing for them.  My guess is that ESPN had to sell an April game and they hooked into the Damon thing to get people to tune in.

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Al Yankazeera (aka YES) played up that angle as well. In the open, Kay intoned about legendary former Sox (Babe, Boggs...I turned my head and missed whether they included Clemens) joining the Yankees and went on and on about Damon doing the same.

Ditto for the past few days virtually the entire local news media here. So I don't think it was just an ESPN thing.

#671 yazsui

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 05:01 PM

Or even how about when the Yankee's faithfull booed Jeter during his slow start last year.

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or booed HGH when he was rehabbing from the cream and/or the clear or whatever it was. Torre and Cashman were mashing him in the press trying to pressure him to take a vacation down in Columbus. If I was HGH, I'd be pissed at that franchise forever. I would take the money and never turn back.

I guess they don't remember basically in-sighting a riot in the toilet every time he swung, missed and struck out. Bunch a freaks.

#672 Vermonter At Large


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Posted 02 May 2006 - 05:31 PM

I moved this off the main board and am closing it, because there are already two threads here for Yankee discussion. No need to resuscitate an "Offseason Moves" thread for general discussion.




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