841 replies to this topic

[drtooth]

Just win damn it, or else..........

[papsnpapishow]

Just win damn it, or else..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Calling Keith Foulke for set-up in aisle 5,6,7,8-Calling Keith-Hey Francona does this thing work?"

[spfldsoxfan]

If I am reading his career stats correctly, Cha Seung Baek has started 6 games and given up 6 home runs. The Sox offense needs to come alive this afternoon and take the pressure off the pitching.

[Klemmehands]

Records Entering Today:

NYY 76-52 .594 34 games left
MIN 76-52 .594 34 games left
CHI 75-54 .581 33 games left
BOS 71-58 .550 33 games left

Projected Records (Based on Winning Percentage ONLY):

NYY 96-66
MIN 96-66
CHI 94-68
BOS 89-73

Win the Wild Card or the East (with no tie-breaker): Go 26-7 (.764 ball) in their last 33 games.

Alternate Analysis: Assuming .500 Record for Remainder of Season:

NYY 93-69
MIN 93-69
CHI 92-70

Win the Wild Card or the East: 23-10 (.696).

Edited by Klemmehands, 27 August 2006 - 09:30 AM.

[Dim13]

Records Entering Today:

NYY 76-52 .594 34 games left
MIN 76-52 .594 34 games left
CHI 75-54 .581 33 games left
BOS 71-58 .550 33 games left

Projected Records (Based on Winning Percentage ONLY):

NYY 96-66
MIN 96-66
CHI 94-68
BOS 89-73

Win the Wild Card or the East (with no tie-breaker): Go 26-7 (.764 ball) in their last 33 games.

Alternate Analysis: Assuming .500 Record for Remainder of Season:

NYY 93-69
MIN 93-69
CHI 92-70

Win the Wild Card or the East: 23-10 (.696).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, given the state of the pitching and all of the injuries we have on offense, I just see no way of this happening. It would not have been so bad if we could make up a game here or there this past week (with the MFYs struggling), but Seattle is killing us and we lost two games where we should have had the starting pitching edge (Wells did pitch great).

Ultimately, if this team doesn't make the playoffs, I think instead of the looking at the 5-game sweep, we need to look at the stretch where we lost 5 of 6 to Tampa and KC as where everything fell apart.

[PlantiersSquat]

WIN...




Or this happens.

Edit- Not to Pete Rose; I actually WANT the Sox to win.

Edited by PlantiersSquat, 27 August 2006 - 10:18 AM.

[Paul M]

Other than the two beatings last week, we blew chances with leads in like 12 other games this month.

I just want the Sox to be 3 games out or less on September 15th. That's all I want at this point. Just win today, and I request right here to start the next game thread in an effort to really shake things up as I've not done one in my 7 years. But, I predict it won't be until they come back home to Boston.

[SoxInTheMist]

Win, damn it. I'm bringing out the big and final guns today - my little
three year old girl is going to her first Sox game. The Sox were 5 - 0
before my little girl knew anything about them losing.

The boys won it all in her first year in this world. She gets to grow
up without being taunted by chants of 1918 and she knows that
curses only exist in childrens books.

She'll be there in person today to cheer on Manny and Big Papi and
to see them hit the ball 'really, really far'.

And if the umpires screw the pooch again she'll be there to tell them,
"But Daddy, he dropped the ball."

And if anyone happens to mention the Yankees, she'll let them know
that "No one likes the 'ankees Daddy!"

Parents can be so cruel some times.

So look for Manny and Big Papi to go yard today because no one
can resist the force of keeping my little girl happy!

Win today.

[Andrew]

Good thing I enjoy baseball simply because it's the game of baseball.

Otherwise I think I'd be quite upset.

[Oil Can's Liver]

Other than the two beatings last week, we blew chances with leads in like 12 other games this month.

I just want the Sox to be 3 games out or less on September 15th. That's all I want at this point. Just win today, and I request right here to start the next game thread in an effort to really shake things up as I've not done one in my 7 years. But, I predict it won't be until they come back home to Boston.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for giving me something to focus on..other than the pitiful, heartles, wretched losses the last 2 nights. If we can just keep that date and that margin in our heads...

BTW, does anyone know why Foulke was not summoned last night? Was I imagining things or hasn't he been pretty damn good his last few outings? WTF was Tito thinking? What more does he have to see from Timlin to now the guy is TOAST? We narrowly escaped with a win in Anaheim no thanks to "The Arsonist"...but Tito goes right back to him the next time the opportunity arises? He has been pathetic for weeks now. Even on the rare occasions when he actually records outs...they are frozen ropes at someone.

Edited by Oil Can's Liver, 27 August 2006 - 11:15 AM.

[BowdenHype]

Just wondering what is it going to take for Francona to take Timlin out of the setup role. I know he's done the job in the past but he is clearly toast now to everyone but Terry. To quote Cafardo and Boston.com:

"Over the last 22 games, the 40-year-old righthanded setup man has set up disasters. He has allowed 18 earned runs in his last 21 1/3 innings, five home runs in his last 14 games, obvious signs that the wear and tear of the past few years has finally caught up with him.
Timlin, while not pleased with the results, was pleased with the way he threw the ball and his pitch selection.
``I threw the ball exceptionally well. I can look at myself in the mirror and know I did exactly what I wanted and I got beat." Timlin said."

Timlin thinks he threw exceptionally well? There was a total of 6 rockets hit off Timlin in that inning, and the only reason he got out of the inning without further damage was because 3 of them were hit directly at an outfielder. Timlin has cost us 3 games in the past 8 days, needless to say, it's a huge difference being 2.5 out and 5.5 out. Terry Francona needs to seriously wake the hell up.

Edited by BowdenHype, 27 August 2006 - 11:29 AM.

[mangotree101]

Re. Timlin being done, here are some numbers I posted in the game thread yesterday, but long after the game was over. I think they bear repeating:

Just out of interest, I ran some more bullpen numbers.

Here's the (rather surprising) result (small sample size caveat!):

Pitcher                           BABIP        FIP        FIP Runs

Timlin
Pre-ASB                         .306         0.13         4.14 (AL avg. FIP = 1.32)
Post-ASB                        .281         3.68        -5.26 (AL avg. FIP = 1.19)
Season                           .296         1.47        -1.08 (AL avg. FIP = 1.28)

Delcarmen
Pre-ASB                         .344         -0.35          4.26
Post-ASB                        .404        -0.52          3.29
Season                           .372        -0.42          7.61

Tavarez
Pre-ASB                         .275         2.01         -3.63      
Post-ASB                        .423         0.89           0.52
Season                           .318         1.73         -3.17

Papelbon
Pre-ASB                          .218       -0.96         11.62       
Post-ASB                         .247       -1.12           5.05
Season                            .226       -1.01         16.65

Now, as far as I can analyze these figures (and I'm happy to admit that I'm still relatively new to this game, and a humanities person on top of that...), here's what seems to be the case:

- Timlin hasn't been particularly lucky or unlucky. Since the ASB, he's been horrible by any measure, and significantly worse than any other BP pitcher with more than a few IPs. If anything, his BABIP suggests that the decline hasn't been as bad as it could have been, as batters have been slightly unlucky against him. The drop-off since the ASB has been nothing short of dramatic. He's either injured or done -- for good or for the season.

- Tavarez has been shockingly good since the ASB (that's the bit where I feel like the numbers must be distorted by noise/small sample). Despite being desperately unlucky (BABIP of .423), he's still managed to be far, far more useful than Timlin.

- Delcarmen's second half hasn't been anywhere near as bad as one might think. Already unlucky before the ASB, he's been even less fortunate since, but his fielding-independent pitching has actually _improved_.

- Paps has been lucky throughout the year (I wonder if the extremely low BABIP suggests skill as well, though). I'm not sure I trust what the numbers seem to imply, that he's got even better in the second half, but there's no doubt that he's been head and shoulders above the rest of the BP staff.

If nothing else, what these figures ought to prove is that Timlin has no business being this team's set-up man. If Julian Tavarez easily outpitches a guy, he has to be relegated to meaningless-innings work.

Comments would be much appreciated -- not sure if this is worthless or potentially useful...

Edit: For what it's worth, as a random comp, Zumaya has a 0.34 FIP for the season (6.87 FIP Runs, same IP as Paps), with a .248 BABIP. Comparing Delcarmen to pitcher like that makes our young guy look pretty good, no?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Timlin's impression that he's throwing "exceptionally well" notwithstanding, the stats, traditional as well as more recent kinds, speak a very different language.

I wonder -- but this is pure speculation -- if the fact that his increased FIP has coincided with a slight drop in BABIP might mean that he's pitching so inconsistently and with so little control that batters either walk, make very solid contact (and hit it out), or can't put the ball in play effectively. A .281 BABIP probably isn't low enough to justify such a reading, but there might just be something there.

Edited by mangotree101, 27 August 2006 - 11:43 AM.

[MoVaughnsTruck]

[stuckinyankeeterritory]

I just got the predictable phone call from my MFY fan neighbor:
"Listen, I talked to Joe and told him to lay down to the Angels, so the sox can
make this interesting. Not our fault you guys can't hold the lead!" followed by evil cackling!

For God's sake, get this guy off my back. I don't want to hear about the future. The future is now! We need Offense and a lead large enough that Tito himself can hold it!

ONWARD!

Edited by stuckinyankeeterritory, 27 August 2006 - 12:02 PM.

[Titoschew]

Just win damn it, or else..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

none other than Dr Issac Yankem, who turned into the fake Diesel, who became Kane...

[BowdenHype]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Regarding that, the info about the Red Sox last losing a series to the M's being May 13-15, 2005, is incorrect. They just lost 2 of 3 in Seattle last month July 21-23, the 2nd loss coming when, you guessed it, Mike Timlin blew it that Sunday on a Sexson walkoff.

[sodenj5]

"Cla Meredith pitched a scoreless eighth inning to extend his streak to 20 2-3 shutout innings, tying the Padres' rookie record set by Jose Melendez in 1991."

Is there any way that Theo can whip up a trade to get Cla Meredith back from San Diego? Maybe Timlin and Tavarez and 3 buckets of baseballs for Meredith? On the bright side, Mirabelli has been out performing Bard...wait, he hasn't? Great.

[sodenj5]

none other than Dr Issac Yankem, who turned into the fake Diesel, who became Kane...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good Lord, no wonder they put a mask on him, look at that mug.

[sodenj5]

Per The Globe:

Timlin, while not pleased with the results, was pleased with the way he threw the ball and his pitch selection.
``It was a good pitch," said Timlin of his offering to Beltre. ``It was 3-4 inches outside. I felt it was where I wanted to go or at least where it ended up I thought it was safe. I guess he was looking out there.
``I threw the ball exceptionally well. I can look at myself in the mirror and know I did exactly what I wanted and I got beat."

I'm glad to see that Timlin still has supreme confidence in himself, depsite the fact that he can't get a blind quadraplegic out with the game on the line right now.

What's the line on how many more games Tito runs Timlin out there "to find himself" before he finally gets the Tavarez mop-up treatment? I say the over/under is at 5.

[the_pun2000]

Time for you Jackasses to grow up and start winning....the time is now...(well errr..actually it was last night...but better late than never). Oh...and Tito...I love you...thank you for 2004...now can you cut the shit and start managing a little less blinded by the whole loyalty thing...and little more results based....thanks. Oh...and Theo..if you ever say again "we have just too much pitching"...you can eat a dick.

Let go...lets start a friggin genuine winning streak today...thanks.

[backpeddling]

EEI reporting that Jon Lester will be missing his start tomorrow and will be replaced by Gabbard. Possible result of his car accident on Storrow. AWESOME!

[attydave]

I just got the predictable phone call from my MFY fan neighbor:
"Listen, I talked to Joe and told him to lay down to the Angels, so the sox can
make this interesting.  Not our fault you guys can't hold the lead!" followed by evil cackling!

For God's sake, get this guy off my back.  I don't want to hear about the future.  The future is now! We need Offense and a lead large enough that Tito himself can hold it!

ONWARD!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Feel free to borrow my response to my MFY-loving brother-in-law:

"When the Yankees recover from a 3-0 deficit, win 4 straight to take the ALCS, and then sweep to a World Series victory, I'll call you up and offer my sincere congratulations. Unitl then, enjoy a hot, steaming bowl of STFU!"

WIN!

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

"Cla Meredith pitched a scoreless eighth inning to extend his streak to 20 2-3 shutout innings, tying the Padres' rookie record set by Jose Melendez in 1991."

Is there any way that Theo can whip up a trade to get Cla Meredith back from San Diego? Maybe Timlin and Tavarez and 3 buckets of baseballs for Meredith? On the bright side, Mirabelli has been out performing Bard...wait, he hasn't? Great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Mariners, and specifically Richie Sexson, are the reason we don't have Cla Meredith to bolster the bullpen right now. Of course it's not their fault, it's the fault of the reactionary Red Sox management.

During that lost series last year in Fenway, on Mother's Day, Meredith made his Major League debut in a rainy, cold and windy mess of a game against Seattle. Just one of those games when the pitchers never feel truly warmed up.

It was 2-2 in the seventh with two out and two on. Wade Miller had made his Red Sox debut and was effective, but on a low pitch count. John Halama relieved in the sixth, was shaky, and with Adrian Beltre coming up, Tito went for a right-hander.

Meredith walked Beltre to load the bases and Sexson hit a high fly that the wind got hold of and carried around the Pesky Pole. Meredith then gave up a long double before getting his first Major League out. The Red Sox ended up losing, 6-4.

It was a bad experience, and he was back in the minors a week or so later.

I'm convinced he wouldn't have been dumped on the Padres so cheaply had he not been placed in such a bad position in his debut. You can't throw a rookie under the bus because he has rookie struggles. But that's what the Red Sox did with Meredith. I'm glad he's having success in San Diego - he seemed like a good kid with a lot of promise.

[mfried]

The Mariners, and specifically Richie Sexson, are the reason we don't have Cla Meredith to bolster the bullpen right now. Of course it's not their fault, it's the fault of the reactionary Red Sox management.

During that lost series last year in Fenway, on Mother's Day, Meredith made his Major League debut in a rainy, cold and windy mess of a game against Seattle. Just one of those games when the pitchers never feel truly warmed up.

It was 2-2 in the seventh with two out and two on. Wade Miller had made his Red Sox debut and was effective, but on a low pitch count. John Halama relieved in the sixth, was shaky, and with Adrian Beltre coming up, Tito went for a right-hander.

Meredith walked Beltre to load the bases and Sexson hit a high fly that the wind got hold of and carried around the Pesky Pole. Meredith then gave up a long double before getting his first Major League out. The Red Sox ended up losing, 6-4.

It was a bad experience, and he was back in the minors a week or so later.

I'm convinced he wouldn't have been dumped on the Padres so cheaply had he not been placed in such a bad position in his debut. You can't throw a rookie under the bus because he has rookie struggles. But that's what the Red Sox did with Meredith. I'm glad he's having success in San Diego - he seemed like a good kid with a lot of promise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[greekgodofwebgems]

Another injury-depleted lineup:

1. Coco- CF
2. Loretta- 1B
3. Papi- DH
4. Youk- LF
5. Lowell- 3B
6. Hinske- RF
7. Pedroia- 2B
8. Javy the Catcher- C
9. Cora- SS

Manny couldn't DH today?

[normstalls]

They just rolled out 3 of the most hurting lineups i have ever seen. Pathetic.

Thanks Theo et al.

[the_pun2000]

Another injury-depleted lineup:

1. Coco- CF
2. Loretta- 1B
3. Papi- DH
4. Youk- LF
5. Lowell- 3B
6. Hinske- RF
7. Pedroia- 2B
8. Javy the Catcher- C
9. Cora- SS

Manny couldn't DH today?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This Line up is awesome...what are you guys worried about???...

p.s.- has anyone seen my little glass crack pipe around? I thought I left it in here last night...after I watched Timlin kick ass.

[SocrManiac]

If it's time for the Sox to go in complete shutdown mode, is the loss of Lester a horrible thing? You don't want to burn him out in his first season, and you don't have to force him back early. Gabbard gets more ML experience away from the pressure of Fenway (although Oakland will be something of an Fenway West).

At least I'll finally get to see Pedroia play live today, as I've never been one to watch West Coast games until 1AM and get up at 5AM.

[guido57]

Maybe Tavarez will chuck one at Sexson's neck or some damn thing,or punch the home plate ump in the head.......(did I just type that?)
Where have the Sox's BALLS gone?
Grow some nads fercrisesakes!!

[BoSoxLady]

They just rolled out 3 of the most hurting lineups i have ever seen.  Pathetic.

Thanks Theo et al.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right! It's Theo's fault that Manny, Tek, Nixon, Mirabelli, Pena & A-Gon are all injured.

[Pumpsie]

I'm convinced he wouldn't have been dumped on the Padres so cheaply had he not been placed in such a bad position in his debut. You can't throw a rookie under the bus because he has rookie struggles. But that's what the Red Sox did with Meredith. I'm glad he's having success in San Diego - he seemed like a good kid with a lot of promise.

It's the manager's job to put his players in a position to succeed. How Tito used Meredith there was criminal. I've never understood why he was called up and how he was used when he was. Makes no sense to me.

Edited by Pumpsie, 27 August 2006 - 02:28 PM.

[Pumpsie]

Boy oh boy. If Papi sees a pitch to hit all day, the M's are braindead. This could be another brutal one.

[PTBNL]

When did Lester get into an accident? It was on Storrow, so it had to be before the road trip, and he did start this past week.

EDIT: Never mind, TC informed me.

Edited by PTBNL, 27 August 2006 - 02:32 PM.

[Soxgal15]

You're right! It's Theo's fault that Manny, Tek, Nixon, Mirabelli, Pena & A-Gon are all injured.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you.
I'm sick of people blaming our injuries on on the Sox FO.

[BoSoxLady]

It's the manager's job to put his players in a position to succeed.  How Tito used Meredith there was criminal.  I've never understood why he was called up and how he was used when he was.  Makes no sense to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FWIW, Tito publicly admitted his usage of Cla was wrong and regrets the incident. As I understand, this is a reason he was hesitant to throw "the kids" in to the mix before they were ready. Tito was forced to use the kids out of necessity and as we can clearly see, everyone except Paps needs more experience.

[Lars The Wanderer]

The Yanks just put a two spot on the board in the 1st before the Angels have even recorded an out. The lineup as posted is going to have to get the job done to keep the deficit where it is.

[DeltaForce]

The Yanks just put a two spot on the board in the 1st before the Angels have even recorded an out. The lineup as posted is going to have to get the job done to keep the deficit where it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, 'cause a 2-run lead for Jeff Karstens is like a 6-run lead for a mere mortal.

Shockingly, the first out of the game was provided by an ARod K.

[sibpin]

Complete injury notes (per Francona on WEEI):

Foulke not available last night (back)
Youkilis LF today (sick)
Loretta 1B today (quad)
Mirabelli on bench (ankle)
Manny on bench (knee)
Pena on bench (wrist)
Lester not starting tomorrow (back)

So in all, 18 fully healthy players on the 25-man.

[PTNL]

[quote name='the_pun2000' date='Aug 27 2006, 03:08 PM']
This Line up is awesome...what are you guys worried about???...

p.s.- has anyone seen my little glass crack pipe around? I thought I left it in here last night...after I watched Timlin kick ass.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote


I try not to get too worked up about today's line up card. I am more excited about the Red Sox future than I have been in years. The young arms are really making headway. Next year they will be fantastic.

Pena has looked better and better each series. So excuse me if I do cry "the sky is falling."

[Bucket1923]

Complete injury notes (per Francona on WEEI):

Foulke not available last night (back)
Youkilis LF today (sick)
Loretta 1B today (quad)
Mirabelli on bench (ankle)
Manny on bench (knee)
Pena on bench (wrist)
Lester not starting tomorrow (back)

So in all, 18 fully healthy players on the 25-man.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Foulke being unavailable makes me hate tito slightly less for last night. It also cements my belief that they need to part ways with Foulkie this offseason. I will always remember his performance in 04 but they can't pencil him into any meaningful role anymore.

[Foulkey Reese]

man oh man it's going to get pretty nasty in Boston in September

[RIRed]

Another day of bon mots from the Mariners broadcasters..."Curt Schilling is the modern-day Randy Johnson" ????

[sodenj5]

The Mariners, and specifically Richie Sexson, are the reason we don't have Cla Meredith to bolster the bullpen right now. Of course it's not their fault, it's the fault of the reactionary Red Sox management.

During that lost series last year in Fenway, on Mother's Day, Meredith made his Major League debut in a rainy, cold and windy mess of a game against Seattle. Just one of those games when the pitchers never feel truly warmed up.

It was 2-2 in the seventh with two out and two on. Wade Miller had made his Red Sox debut and was effective, but on a low pitch count. John Halama relieved in the sixth, was shaky, and with Adrian Beltre coming up, Tito went for a right-hander.

Meredith walked Beltre to load the bases and Sexson hit a high fly that the wind got hold of and carried around the Pesky Pole. Meredith then gave up a long double before getting his first Major League out. The Red Sox ended up losing, 6-4.

It was a bad experience, and he was back in the minors a week or so later.

I'm convinced he wouldn't have been dumped on the Padres so cheaply had he not been placed in such a bad position in his debut. You can't throw a rookie under the bus because he has rookie struggles. But that's what the Red Sox did with Meredith. I'm glad he's having success in San Diego - he seemed like a good kid with a lot of promise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what happened, I saw it, and it was ugly, but I didnt think he crashed and burned, given the circumstances. Sexson wrapped it around the pole for the slam.

I bet Theo kicks himself in the ass every time Meredith pitches a scoreless inning. Where was the long term plan on that one Boy Wonder?

[SouthernBoSox]

Dustin is going to have just a monster day to make everyone SHUT THE FUCK up. Its going to be some kind of awesome.

[Fisk fan]

screwed up line up and a pitcher they have never seen..........oh boy

[zzzgilliszzz]

Nice walk Coco

[Foulkey Reese]

nice at bat there Coco

[zzzgilliszzz]

Awesome

[sodenj5]

Was Crisp not even running back to first? Make the effort Coco.

[SeoulSoxFan]

A little note on Cha -- he actually gave up the Korean citizenship to stay in the minors. There is a mandatory 2.5 year military service for all Korean nationals (whether he plays in the minors/majors or not) and that might have been one of the reasons.

Cha is not followed as closely in Korea as fellow Korean-nationals in the MLB (Choo Shinshoo getting the most press these days as he had a
great start in Cleveland after being traded from the same Mariners.)

He's been blocked in Seattle for a while despite better numbers than some other call-ups in the Mariners system. He made a decent start against the Yankees in his previous start, giving up only 3 runs I believe.

Edited by SeoulSoxFan, 27 August 2006 - 03:13 PM.