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philly sox fan
No big news flash. It's been a bit of a problem. Matthew Namee over at THT had an article the other day looking at how teams would look if they'd kept all of their home grown players.

link

The Sox team he came up with is:

QUOTE
Boston Red Sox

C Kelly Shoppach
1B Nomar Garciaparra
2B Dustin Pedroia
3B Jed Lowrie
SS David Eckstein
LF Kevin Youkilis
CF Jacoby Ellsbury
RF David Murphy
DH Hanley Ramirez

Bench: Adam Everett, Freddy Sanchez

S1 Jon Lester
S2 Daisuke Matsuzaka
S3 Justin Duchscherer
S4 Justin Masterson
S5 Jeff Suppan

Bullpen: Jon Papelbon, Hideki Okajima, Manny Delcarmen, Frank Francisco


Putting aside the overall quality of the team - actually not so bad, though I'd say including Matsuzaka is a bit of a cheat - the first thing that jumps out is that the corners - carcass Nomar, Lowrie, Murphy and Youk - are pretty lousy. You could also make this a thread about how awful the Sox have been at developing OF which necessitated the move of Youk to LF, but let's stick the power theme in general.

I did a quick look back through my draft data from 1987 onward just looking for corner players and traditional power bats. The Sox had a rediculsouly good power draft in 1989 picking Bagwell (let's skip over Larry Anderson) and Mo Vaughn. That's a hell of a lot of traditonal corner power. It's nearly 20 years ago, of course, but let's start the drought at the nice round number of 1990.

Since 1990 the Sox top corner bats produced have been:

1993 - Trot Nixon (mostly a platoon guy, and a bit of short career, but 3 really good years, and DIRT DOG!)
1996 - Shea Hillenbrand (that's 2 time All Star Shea Hillenbrand)
2001 - Kevin Youkilis (real good player, but mostly a <20 HR player before this year)
2003 - David Murphy (decent enough this year, but still a likely tweener, 4th of type)

And really up through the very good 2005 draft, that's about it. Now they've draft and developed some good pitchers and up the middle players who can be even more valuable than traditional corner power players, but man that stinks for 16 drafts.

If you forget the position constraint and ask how many drafted players in that peroid ever hit at least 30 HRs in a season - a pretty modest benchmark in the so-called steroid era - the answer is one. Nomar hit 30+ HR in his first two seasons. Nixon topped out at 28. Youkilis who entered this year with a career high of 16 came close with 29 in what may be his career year.

I don't really have the time or inclination to check other teams to put that in context, but 16 draft producing two 30+ HR seasons seems pretty low. And it's not like there are a ton of high 20 HR totals that just missed - one for Youk, two for Nixon and two more for Nomar. So that would be seven 25+ HR seasons and even without checking that seems terrible.

The Sox, through the end of the Gorman days, all of Duke and the early Epstein days, just really struggled to produce power hitters.

Oh, I should include Hanley Ramirez in here too though. He has a 29 and 33 HR season and god knows how many more.

I vaguley recall that in August 2005 (might have been 2006) that the HR output of the team outside of Ramirez and Ortiz just collapsed. And we started talking a little bit about well, one of these days the Sox are going to have find some power production to replace those two guys. To their credit, they won another WS anyway and still have a very good team 4 years later, but it sure looks like that search really, really needs to intensify.

This track record of futility is also going to make it really hard for people to even think about trading 2006 draftee Lars Anderson. He is without a doubt the best Sox power prospect since Bagwell/Vaughn from the 1989 draft class.
philly sox fan
Oh, and that Namee article had a couple of other interesting things. Namee was Bill James assistent covering the first couple of years James was with the Sox. Back then it was fairly common for their to be posts and threads wondering what the hell James was up to. Much less so now that the Sox have had a whole of actual tangible accomplishments. Funny how that works out.

But Namee did mention a couple of players from that time that James recommended.

QUOTE
About Dioner Navarro—he hit .321 as a 19-year-old in 2003, including .341 in over 200 at-bats at Double-A. I was working for Bill James at the time, and after the season we did several studies on minor leaguers for the Red Sox. Dioner Navarro came up as the best prospect in the high minors, based solely on performance. A 19-year-old, .341-hitting Double-A catcher was about as great a prospect as you could get. Navarro struggled to establish himself over the next several years, bouncing from the Yankees to the D-Backs to the Dodgers to the Rays, but he’s still only 24, and he seems to have figured it out, hitting .295 for a first-place team.


Yeah, I'm mostly including that to make the Varitek haters even crazier. Imagine a Shoppach/Navarro platoon for the next 5-6 years! And no, the Sox couldn't have gotten him from the Yankees, but he did move around. Would have been nice in retrospect to have topped that Mark Hendrickson offer from Tampa and picked him up from the Dodgers.

And the other guy mentioned is Casey Blake:

QUOTE
Casey Blake was the Blue Jays’ seventh-round pick in 1996, out of Wichita State. I grew up watching the Shockers, and Blake was one of my favorite players. He struggled early in the minors, but broke through with a monster season in 1998, at age 24 (.357/.417/.574). He regressed significantly in 1999, and while he was still a productive hitter, he was also 25 years old. The Jays put him on waivers and he was picked up by Minnesota. In the Twins system, Blake hit over .300 with solid power and decent plate discipline every year, but he didn’t get much of a chance in the majors, and by then he was in his late twenties. He became a minor league free agent; Bill James recommended him to the Red Sox as insurance at third base, and I believe the Red Sox offered him a minor league deal, but Blake understandably wanted to sign with a team that would give him a clear shot at a big league job. He signed with Cleveland; the manager, Eric Wedge, was another Wichita State guy. Needless to say, Blake worked out quite well. And for every Casey Blake, there are probably a dozen other “career minor leaguers” who are just as good, but don’t get the opportunity.


And actually that's more a good reminder that knowing the "right" players to target isn't always enough. Not everybody wants to be stashed away as your insurance policy.

And what would the Sox have done with Blake - trade him for top catching prospect Christian Santana? Eh, who needs that.
PedroSpecialK
Interesting stuff as always, Philly.

One lineup adjustment I'd make would be to put Eckstein on the bench, Lowrie at SS, Youk at 3B and Brandon Moss in LF - seems like since Moss is not even on the bench it's an unintentional omission by Namee. Let's hope Anderson, Reddick, Almanzar and Kalish can help reverse this lack of power - it's arguable that Youkilis has already gone part of the way in doing so himself.
Rough Carrigan
Okay, that's not a lot of power development but is that anomalous? How many teams are developing more?
grantb
This isn't exactly the same kind of analysis, but I took the top 20 HR hitters from each league and looked at which team drafted them. For players that were not drafted (or I couldn't find who drafted them very easily) I put the team they first played in the majors for. For players that switched leagues, I included them if they were above the bottom threshold (23 HR, Manny, Teixeira, Bay, Nady). I used only current franchise names.
Players
Player 2008 HR First Franchise
Howard 48 Phillies
Dunn 40 Reds
Delgado 38 Blue Jays
Ludwick 37 A's
Braun 37 Brewers
Pujols 37 Cardinals
M. Ramirez 37 Indians
M Cabrera 37 Marlins
Quentin 36 Diamondbacks
A. Gonzalez 36 Marlins
A. Rodriguez 35 Mariners
Dye 34 Braves
Fielder 34 Brewers
Thome 34 Indians
Cust 33 Diamondbacks
Wright 33 Mets
Sizemore 33 Nationals
Burrell 33 Phillies
Utley 33 Phillies
Teixeira 33 Rangers
H. Ramirez 33 Red Sox
Giambi 32 A's
Uggla 32 Diamondbacks
Jacobs 32 Mets
Huff 32 Rays
Hamilton 32 Rays
Bay 31 Nationals
Pena 31 Rangers
Berkman 29 Astros
Cantu 29 Rays
Youkilis 29 Red Sox
Soriano 29 Yankees
Lee 28 White Sox
Glaus 27 Angels
Reynolds 27 Diamondbacks
Guerrero 27 Nationals
A. Ramirez 27 Pirates
Longoria 27 Rays
Beltran 27 Royals
Beltre 25 Dodgers
Thames 25 Yankees
Nady 25 Padres
Swisher 24 A's
Peralta 23 Indians
Scott 23 Indians
Ibanez 23 Mariners
Mora 23 Mets
Ortiz 23 Twins
Morneau 23 Twins


Teams
Franchise # Power # HR
Diamondbacks 4 128
Rays 4 120
Indians 4 117
Phillies 3 114
A's 3 93
Nationals 3 91
Mets 3 88
Marlins 2 73
Brewers 2 71
Rangers 2 64
Red Sox 2 62
Mariners 2 58
Yankees 2 54
Twins 2 46
Reds 1 40
Blue Jays 1 38
Cardinals 1 37
Braves 1 34
Astros 1 29
White Sox 1 28
Angels 1 27
Pirates 1 27
Royals 1 27
Dodgers 1 25
Padres 1 25


Based solely on 2008 data, the Red Sox seem to be very middle of the pack, if not slightly above average, in recognizing top power hitters.
philly sox fan
Yeah, it may very well be that the Sox are in a big broad average range. Certainly not good, but not so far from everybody else. I don't feel like looking through every team.

But the two things that stand out about the Sox power hitters mentioned are that their successes have tended not to be persistent (ie Nomar was great his 1st 2 years and sporadic thereafter, Nixon really only had the 3 decent years, Youk's power may yet persist but next year he'll be 30 with one season over 16 HR) and their biggest successes (Nomar and Hanley) were non-traditional SS.

That last one obviously isn't a bad thing. The first one is though and to some extent Hanley's blossoming only after leaving the organization is kind of another example of the lack of permanence in the few power hitters the Sox have produced. He's probably going to hit HRs for a long time, but the effect of those HRs on the Sox isn't all that meaningful.

You look at many of the names on the table above - Howard, Dunn, Delgado, (not Ludwick), Bruan, Pujols, Ramirez, etc - and they were (or will be) for a solid period of time iconic middle of the order sluggers for the team that drafted them. Youkilis and Hanley Ramirez are not that.
roundegotrip
Something to consider is that the Sox have been (I would assume) drafting mostly to fill needs for the past several years, being a championship-caliber club. So perhaps drafting and developing power hasn't been as high a priority as drafting and devoloping speed and defense, considering what the lineup looked like from say 2003-2007. Now that that generation of draftees has started to make their way up, and with Manny gone, Ortiz and Lowell aging, etc. it will be interesting to see if there's a slight shift in draft-day priorities over the next year or two.
TheGoldenGreek33
The thing I've noticed these past three years is that they're drafting more high ceiling guys than usual. Guys like Place, Kelly, Westmoreland, etc. They can afford to take risks on these guys because 1) they have the money and 2) there's no immediate need at the ML level like other clubs have. I do think one reason for not drafting power bats is because the organization has preached plate discipline more than anything. Now, rarely do you see guys with plus power potential and great plate discipline make it past the first 15 picks, so that creates sort of a problem for a team like the Red Sox. Another reason for not drafting guys who only hit the long ball could be that McLeod & Co. like guys who are "baseball players". This ties back into assuming the organizational method of plate discipline. A hitter who gets up there looking to hit a home run obviously doesn't have a sound approach and IMO, isn't one who McLeod particularly likes.

However, it would be unfair to say they haven't drafted any plus power potential hitters. They just haven't signed them.

2005: Alvarez, Dykstra
2006: LaPorta
2007: Morris, Matthews
2008: Oropesa
sibpin
Another thing to consider is the relatively low draft position the Sox have had since 1990:

1-5: 0
6-10: 1
11-15: 3
16-20: 7
21-25: 4
26-30: 4

Of the 28 players who hit 30+ HR this season, 10 of them were top-15 draft picks: Braun, Manny, Gonzalez, A-Rod, Fielder, Burrell*, Utley*, Hamilton, Teixeira*, and Pena (* - originally drafted in a later round, but didn't sign until re-drafted first round). Add in to the 23+ list Glaus*, Longoria, Berkman (16th), Swisher (16th), plus players like Chipper Jones, Bonds, Griffey, BJ Upton, and there's a simple assumption missing here... a good number of elite power hitters are drafted in the first few picks, and simply have never been available for the Sox to draft.

Repeating what roundegotrip said, even more of these guys are still picked in the top-75 (David Wright, Carlos Quentin, etc.), and the Sox' draft philosophy in 2003-2005 towards top-75 draft picks was mostly geared towards getting guys who would be difference-makers in the majors quickly instead of high-upside guys. That at least explains the early Epstein era stuff away... not much of an excuse for the Duquette or late Gorman eras.
smastroyin
I have been stumping for this being a problem since sometime around 1999 (hey it's Rick Asadoorian!), but let me play Devil's Advocate for just a minute. I do think there are a few things in play here. One is that the Sox haven't really tried to develop power hitters. None of the top draft choices other than Nixon, unless you count Murphy, have been power guys. I think they feel in general and this is a philosophy shared by Duquette and Epstein, that you can find power bats in the veteran player market, so their drafts focus on up the middle players (particularly SS and CF) and pitchers.

It was noted that most big power bats come from the top of the first round, but let's look at all the players the Red Sox have drafted in the first round, including supplemental:

CODE
2008 - 1 P, 1 SS
2007 - 1 P, 1 SS
2006 - 3 P, 1 CF
2005 - 3 P, 1 2B, 1 CF
2004 - no pick - top pick was Pedroia, a college SS
2003 - 1 CF, 1 OF (though both ended up in corners in the majors - Murton and Murphy)
2002 - no pick - top pick was Lester
2001 - no pick - top pick was Shoppach, a C
2000 - 1 P
1999 - 2 P, 1 CF (and a toolsy New England one at that)
1998 - 1 SS
1997 - 1 P, 1 OF
1996 - 2 P
1995 - 1 P
1994 - 1 SS
1993 - 1 OF
1992 - No pick
1991 - 1 P, 1 C
1990 - No Pick (top pick was Frank Rodriguez, a P/SS)


In the aggregate, the Red Sox have had 29 first round or supplemental draft choices since 1990. Of those, 16 were pitchers, 5 were middle infielders, 4 were CF, 1 was a C. So in the past 19 years the Sox have drafted exactly three guys for their bats - Trot Nixon, Aaron Fisher, and Matt Murton. 1 for 3 on these guys doesn't seem like that bad of a return. The problem here seems to be draft philosophy and not development. And Fisher and Murton I think represent what drafting in the supplemental round means - if you don't go well over slot, you are left with these tweener college OF who have some spark but not a lot of true merit. Fisher was a guy who would have gone top 10 if he had left after his junior (or maybe soph) year when he was better than JD Drew, but got injured and never got over it. Murton was ordinary but probably also the best pick available in the "let's try to fill up our minor leagues" vein, and of course he had a couple of ok but not great seasons.

Let's also look at how high the Sox went in the draft with their first real power bat. I apologize if I miss anything.

CODE
2008 - 5th round with Westmoreland, I guess, although he is also a CF.
2007 - 2nd round with Hunter Morris, but they didn't sign him and he hit the hell out of the ball at Auburn, also Middlebrooks in the 5th though he has been a disappointment so far and all of his power is projected.
2006 - 3rd round with Aaron Bates, but really what can you expect from a college senior drafted in the third round.  You can expect Aaron Bates.  They took a shot at signing LaPorta but not much of one.
2005 - they didn't sign anyone, in the 11th they drafted Alvarez we all know his story.  In the 34th they drafted Dykstra I don't think they really put much attention there.
2004 - 10th with Steven Pearce, who they did not sign and who did sign the following year with Pittsburgh.  
2003 - Murton but he was never going to hit for power.  Second round they drafted Hall who has basically washed out and is another CF anyway.
2002 - 3rd round with bonus baby Scott White who is washed out of baseball.
2001 - You could argue Shoppach, I guess.  Otherwise Bailie I guess but another college senior drafted in the middle rounds.
2000 - 3rd round with Matt Cooper who never did anything.  Notably passed on the chance to draft Xavier Nady or Jason Stokes.  
1999 - Didn't sign a single guy with a projectible bat.  Rick Asadoorian my ass.
1998 - We all know the Teixeira story, that was the 8th round.
1997 - Fisher as mentioned above.
1996 - LoCurto in the 2nd, Stenson in the 3rd.  I mention Stenson because without being shot he had a chance to join the "couple of decent years" list.
1995 - 7th round with Liniak, they also drafted Pat Burrell in like the 134578th round.
1994 - 10th round with Damian Sapp
1993 - Nixon in the first


I think this list adds more credence to the thought that they just don't think the draft is the way to go to get these guys. I mean, if they signed their stretch picks all the time, they would have a surplus with LaPorta, Alvarez, Anderson, and Morris. In fact if they had gone after all of those guys I don't think many people would be worried about an impending TB dynasty. But I think the way they treat these guys is a pretty good indication of where they think money in the draft should be spent.
Chainsaw318
To throw in something, as I see it, especially from the draft chart above:

Another reason that power is not the predominant trait the Red Sox have been drafting for is that power is the most market-inefficient tool for draftees. A draftee with decent-to-great power potential is going to find himself higher up in the draft than players with similar (or possibly even greater other skills) except for power. And even if such a player slips due to signability, the contract demand may be relatively higher due to the sex-appeal of power potential.

This organization has seen evidence that power-hitting does not have to be the end-all-be-all of MLB success, and thus seems to have made a decision not to sacrifice overall talent for the sake of finding players with plus power

I actually wonder if we will see a change in drafting priority league-wide, if HR #'s continue to fall or reach a lower plateau. If power will be de-emphasized even further in team's draft strategy, in the way that the Red Sox appear to have been doing, then maybe the way lineup's are constructed change or we see "plus-power" only prospects fall significantly lower in the draft.
OttoC
It seems to me that the Red Sox have considered pitchers as currency and the more prospects they have used as trade bait have done better than the ones they didn't trade. There was a while that LHPs were the pitching prospects of choice. The club has also gone through various periods where they were looking for a regular 2B, CF, and now an SS. I think some of their draft choices have been made to address those shortages and for all three of those positions, power was not at the top of the list. There was also a period, I believe, where the front office was sensitive to the criticism of the team as one that needed cabs to get to first when they didn't hit home runs, so they spent some of their draft choices on best athletes. Over the years, the club has not done particularly well with their first ten picks in drafts. They have also not spent their money wisely in many instances; they have made some excellent choices later in drafts (Teixeira is a good example) but then failed to sign them.
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