According to the MLB Truth and Rumors section on SI.com and the New York Post the Dodgers might be interested in trading their catcher.

I think he could be a interesting pickup to replace the Captain if he does not return.

Here is the link:

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/74571

If the Dodgers trade Martin, it wouldn't shock me if McCourt/Torre signed Tek. They can get a haul for Martin, and we should be first in line. For starters, I'd take Andruw Jones contract to lessen the prospects going the other way. This might help them keep Manny.

I hope this rumor is real.

I heard some of this talk on KABC Dodger talk last night. They must be crazy. I would think that this kid is untouchable, but if there was any way of landing Martin, wow. What a fit with the Red Sox.

Most of the talk about trading Martin centered on sending him to San Diego for Peavy.

Tek with the Dodgers, what a thought.

They'd have to be fucking CRAZY to trade away a top flight catcher in MLB 2008. Do they know something weird about his personal life? Does he raise evil vampire bats that feast on the brains of Vin Scully? Every team in the majors save the Cubs and Rangers are burning up the Dodger phone lines right now.

I would think the package the Red Sox would have to give up would be similar to the one they would give up for Jake Peavy.

Putting together a package for a good young catcher would be of great benefit to the long term for the Boston Red Sox.

Martin should be untouchable, but I'd put together Buchholz, one of Crisp/Ellsbury, one of Bard/Bowden, and taking Jones' contract to get him. I'd certainly listen if they were interested in anyone else in the organization not named Bay, Drew, Youkilis, Pedroia, Jon Papelbon, Okajima, Masterson, Beckett, Lester, or Matsuzaka.

I'd offer slightly lesser deals for Mike Napoli or Jarrod Saltamacchia. Any other catchers under 28 that look to be studs?

Remember, this is the team that traded away Mike Piazza at the top of his game.

The Dodgers basically loathe their prospects, and anyone under the age of 28, and love their battle tested veterans plus there is a new Red Sox toy for McCourt to collect this offseason at Martin‘s position. But I don’t think even McCourt/Coletti would be foolish enough to actually trade away a 25 year catcher who can hit and run well. They could simply be gauging the market. This always happens in the off-season.

This guy's pretty good. So is this guy.


As for your proposed package, I wouldn't do that. I would think about doing it for Mauer, though I hardly think that would ever happen.

There are few catchers out there who I'd be comfortable making a massive, farm-raiding push to get, but Martin's on the list. If he's available we gotta try and try hard to land him. If their goal is Peavy we're going to have our work cut out, too.

Starting to think of the Dodgers becoming a West Coast retirement home for former East Coast stars?

Was Martin hurt last year? His slugging percentage nosedived to under .400. He threw out approx. 25% of base stealers whereas he threw out 33% of base stealers last year with pretty much the same pitching staff.

I was shocked to see how many games he caught, over 150 last year and this year, which is insane and something the Sox would not do to him.

I think you answered your own question, they overworked him and his production went south. Here, he would at least get weekly rest.He doesn't have one of those BS "trade me anywhere but Boston" clauses does he?

'Cept nothing to suggest that either of those two would be even close to on the block. Which, I think is your "hardly think..." point above.

Perhaps mwk should have gone with:



Given the lack of quality catching, I think this list is quite short, with the most likely candidate being one of the Texas Two (if they can even be called studs...)

It wasn't as simple as that. Not at all.

Fair enough. I don't really think any under 28 stud catchers are available for any reasonable package...I mean, if reasonable packages include Buchholz, Ellsbury, Bowden, and eating 18 million...goodness! That's an ace prospect, a solid #3, and a star center fielder, all of whom can be paid for under a million. I guess it depends on exactly how much shine you think has come off of double H and Dreamboat in the eyes of GM's. Not much, I should think.

And I don't consider either Teagarden or Saltalamacchia to be studs. Teagarden's minor league numbers aren't that impressive, and Salty hasn't proven he can hit MLB pitching yet. Saltalamacchia remains the far better prospect, though. I don't understand the love for Teagarden, besides his burning cup of coffee.

You would?

There is nothing to not love about Martin. I agree he would be about the best thing that could happen to the Red Sox about now. Offense, defense, handles pitchers, even runs, amazing! I agree.

However. The problem with getting players who are amazing when everyone KNOWS they are amazing is that you have to overpay.

So, we would take Andruw Jones' 18 Million dollar salary in 2009. Here are his '08 numbers

2008 31 LAD NL 75 209 21 33 8 1 3 14 0 1 27 76 .158 .256 .249

Note the .OPS of .407! Mr. Jones would now be the highest paid member of the Boston Red Sox.

And then we would send two blue chip pitching prospects, as well as a (at least) league average CF that makes either 400k or 4M.

• Cost to replace 4th outfielder and #4 pitcher in 2009, as well as possible #5 pitcher in 09/10?
• Let's assume 5M for the pitcher and that we keep Kotsay as our 4th OF. He'll get a raise over the 7M he made in 08. So let's say 8M?
• 2009 financial cost of taking on Jones and Martin as well as league average 4th starter: +31M if we trade Ellsbury, +25M if we trade Coco.
• 2010: +36M or +31M (assuming Bowden could be a 4th/5th starter in 2010)

That's a lot of money for a Catcher (admittedly a great one)! And that assumes Bowden and Buchholz have a floor of 4th starter with no higher ceiling....AND that Ellsbury and Coco are league average (I would assume Ellsbury has a higher ceiling at a much lower cost).

OK. I admittedly have a mass of assumptions in here, so please tell me where you (anyone) are assuming differently.

Well, that is true. I was just saying that they are not afraid of trading away great players if they think it will help their team.

They? Wasn't that about 4 GMs ago? That's akin to saying the Red Sox wouldn't be afraid of going in 2009 with an incredibly spotty rotation and bullpen because they did so in 1997.

I think writing off Jones is a mistake. Admittedly, there's a decent chance he's toast and obviously no one is offering him an 18 million dollar deal, but I think a good comparison is Mike Lowell. Age 31, in a pitching park, Lowell put up a .658 OPS 8HR/58 RBI in 500 AB. Jones at age 31, in the pitching park, put up a .505 OPS 3HR/14 RBI in 209 AB. One shouldn't write off the prior three years where Jones hit 118 HR and Lowell hit 83 HR. I'm not saying Jones will be as good as he was, but there's a very good chance he'll be a decent offensive piece, a lot depends on what you think of his defense and where he can play. What I've heard is he's a wreck defensively, but I've never watched him and he did win 10 gold gloves, so he may not be that bad. We can all agree though, taking Lowell as a salary dump to acquire a great young player worked out great.

If you could make a prospect like Bowden or Buchholz a 4th starter with no higher ceiling you should do so instantly unless you have an ungodly payroll. The problem with the pitching prospects is the floor is not a 4th starter, the floor is a guy that can't pitch in this league. They aren't expensive, so you can take all you can get, just hoping they turn into Jeff Suppan or Bronson Arroyo. To just assume they can put up that kind of production is way off.



Presumably Ellsbury has more chance of breaking out, but at current production is about Coco's equal, and they are both very good and valuable players. Elite defensive center fielders that aren't Willie Harris with the stick are very good players. (Actually, I just looked up Harris and he hit 13 HR in 367 AB for the Nats this year? Where'd that come from?) Still, you can only play one in center field, and unless you believe their left or right field defense is so good that you sit a better bat, just having one of them on the team would seem to make the most sense.

The most important thing is how much Martin improves this team. And if Martin was on the 2008 team and healthy for the postseason, the team has an even greater chance at a World Series.

IIRC, he's from Montreal, so Boston is the MLB club closest to him (or maybe it's Trana but it's got geography on its side, anyway)

For his career, these are his monthly OPS splits:

April .876
May .814
June .825
July .816
August 767
Sept .755

It's amazing how many starting catchers have similar splits.

You are ignoring a few other factors. Not only was this season a .505 OPS (153 points lower than Lowell's season in your example, a huge difference), but the year before, at age 30, he put up a .724, with a .311 OBP in a neutral park. Combine that with the fact that with the change in his physical appearance (also known as buffet-itis), and he's clearly not the player he was, and I think it's definitely an extreme long shot for him to be even a decent offensive piece.

Combine that with the 18 million, and, ugh. I don't think the analogy to Lowell is apt at all.

I'm less bullish on Salty than I was last year at this time. Teagarden's defense will justify the OPS he's likely to put up at the ML level, although everything I've seen suggests that TX has no interest in moving him anyways.

There won't be any catchers, established or prospective, available for what any sane person would consider to be a "reasonable" package. GMs will pay through the nose not because they think they're getting the next Johnny Bench, but because they need to put someone with a high probability of being at least decent behind the plate for the next few years. Theo figures to be in that category, and some combination (or, depending on the player, all) of Buch/Bowden/Ells figure to be in the conversation. Whatever you might think of their potential at this point, the trade value of Ells and Buch is considerably lower than it was a year ago.

Corsi mentioned this on the main board but if the Dodgers are serious what about Lowell and prospects? Or a 3 way that gets prospects for Lowell to include in on the deal? I could handle taking on Jones contract for a year if we can actually land Martin. I'm not sure how serious to take this. It sounds ridiculous but the Dodgers don't exactly have genuises running that team.

I think it's pretty greedy to think you could get Martin and dump Lowell all at once. I guess it's worth exploring to take LA's temperature on Lowell, but by no means should that be any kind of dealbreaker.

Who was the Colorado catcher the Red Sox signed and immediately dumped? I could see us doing that if taking on Andruw's money was a requirement, either that, or paying him to play in AAA, I think the guy's completely done. It would be a great way to use the space in the payroll to address a need despite there being no good FA choice at catcher.

FWIW, I'd give up almost anything. As far as prospects go, I'd be willing to part with anything but Anderson, even including Masterson and Ellsbury.

Not signed (you must be thinking of Jay Payton), but traded for, Charles Johnson. He was part of the Kim trade. He was immediately released and picked up by the Devil_Rays.

As an aside, he was also part of the Piazza blockbuster.

I dunno. The Dodgers have a thing for former Redsox players and could have interest in a veteran like him. If they didn't thats where you get creative and open things up to a 3rd team to help entice any Martin offer. But this all hinges on whether the Dodgers are really dumb enough to trade a way a young stud catcher.

Again, though, if the Dodgers are willing to trade the guy, see what they want, and give it to them. If something can work out with Lowell that's great but by no means should it have any impact on whether or not a trade happens. The Dodgers need to have a legitimate interest in the guy. I mean, literally, if there was one guy I could get onto the Red Sox, it would probably be Russ Martin. Catchers like him are extremely rare.

I'm not sure I follow what your trying to say? I have no idea whats going on in the Dodgers minds so my thoughts stem from Corsi's posts on the main board for starting points to open discussions.

IF this is true, then I dont see how this cant be priority # 1, 2, and 3 for the Sox. This has got to be the best plausible solution to our catching woes.

I wouldn't mind seeing us structure a deal around Buchholz and maybe (hopefully) Lowell (they still have problems filling their infield dont they) or maybe Lowrie and Masterson or a mL pitcher (Kris Johnson?). The Sox can sweeten the deal by taking back Andruw Jones or Juan Pierre.

Make that trade and sign Tex and find a solid 4 for the rotation and this offseason would be a resounding success.

I'd love to see a deal along the lines of:

Sox trade Bowden, Delcarmen, Lowell, and Argenis Diaz
Dodgers trade Martin, Andruw Jones

I really don't expect them to want Lowell, I think we're going to be coughing up Lowrie. Possibly a prospect like Bard over MDC as well.

If the centerpiece of a Martin to the Red Sox deal was Jed Lowrie, I’d do back flips for weeks. I highly doubt they would target Lowrie since they have their version of him in a younger (less OBP-minded though) Blake Dewitt.

You never know - Coletti has long been infatuated with veterans who have some leadership, and Lowell certainly fits that bill. There's a reason I said I'd love to see that be the trade

Pure speculation on my part............Might the Red Sox reported interest in Peavy be connected to their pursuit of a catcher? It seems that there might be some pieces that fit together for a 3-way. Dodgers end up with Peavy, Sox end up with Martin, and the Padres end up with a center fielder and young pitching. What would need to be added to balance this out?

Edit: I have not been able to read the link as it is filtered out by my internet access. Perhaps that makes this thought pointless.

Blake Dewitt is a left handed 3b, not really their version of a switch hitting SS.

Now I do not think the Dodgers will be trading Martin for obvious reasons in today's catching market but if they were I would think they would be more interested in Youks playing some 3rd base for them more so than Lowell with his hip and contract and I still think that for LA that would be a beginning of a conversation with some hefty prospects to go along. Normally I would not like the thought of loosing Youks but with Teixeira available it makes the idea more tolerable.

Left handed third baseman, haven't seen one of those since beer league softball. Oh, you mean left handed hitting. DeWitt also plays second base and made some good plays in the NLCS.

I think Youkilis is untouchable.

I don't. I think the opposite, he's the best trade chip they have if they really want to make a block buster move. Keep in mind Youk is either 30 or will be 30 soon, he's not going to do what he did this year forever.

If the Dodgers are looking to approach this to find out his value how do the Sox approach this? The thought of the Padres and Peavy sounds interesting so lets start with that. What would the Padres be asking from the Dodgers along with Martin? That way we start with ok lets open this 3 ways. We want Martin, LA wants Peavy and the Padres want some prospects. What can we combine between the Sox and Dodgers to make this fit? I am plenty ok with taking on Jones contract for a year if we needed to do so to make this work.

With the obvious interest for LA to re-sign Manny does getting Peavy and his contract take them out of that running? If so does Mike Lowell entice them as a cheaper veteran alternative who could fill a potential position of need? If the Sox were willing to include Lowell that could help towards what the Dodgers would be willing to give up to get Peavy? Are the Padres ok with trading Peavy within the division?

There are alot of unkowns here and its hard to say at this time what it would take to make this work for all parties involved. With that said this could definetly be beneficial towards the future of the Redsox here. Getting Martin and signing Tex would make the lineup extremely deep.

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Tex
Youk
Drew
Bay
Martin
Lowrie

The NL West is not the AL East but Martin had a .385 OBP last season while playing over 150 games. Obviously the Sox would not be running Martin out there that much every year so theres less wear on him, but given the 150 games the .385 OBP has a little extra enticement to it.

A deal something like this could be intriguing to the Dodgers, gives them some salary flexibility as well as two of the best prospects in baseball.

BOS sends: Buchholz, Ellsbury, Bay
LAD sends: Andruw Jones and Martin

This gives the Dodgers a replacement if/when Manny leaves in Bay and it takes Andruw Jones off the book.

Also gives them a potential ace and potential superstar center fielder.

Or is this just a pipe dream?

Theres plenty I'd be willing to give to get Martin but Clay, Ellsbury and Bay? No thanks.

Yea, I know they aren't exactly identical but I just did a quick glance at their stats when I made that comment..

2008 (mlb rookie year)
Lowrie - .258/.339/.400 91 OPS+ (minor league career) - (1270 AB) .287/.381/.446 (age 24)
Dewitt - .264/.344/.383 88+ OPS+ (minor league career) - (1968 AB) .280/.333/.446 (age 22)

That's all I meant.

I'm fairly confident they don't want either Ellbury or Crisp, their needs are much greater in the infield. Bay is a possibility if/when they lose Manny, would give us an opening for Tex without having to move Lowell or Youk. I doubt our FO is going to be open to parting with Buck, they still seem to have a very high opinion of him. Bowden's more likely to be on the block, probably in combination with a second prospect.

I'd start out LA with:

Bowden
Lowrie
Bard

Figuring it will be too low but will get their temperature, and then talk about putting another prospect in or swapping prospects for Bay when Manny walks.

I don't think that acquiring Martin, while something I think we should at least consider as an organization is worth that package. You trade 2 of your 4 OFer's and an ace pitching prospect for a young catcher and a washed up OFer? I don't see that making sense for the Sox in the short or the long term.

I think Theo would be amenable to trading some of those pieces, in addition to others, for that type of a return but I would be upset if that was the exact deal we ended up making. I don't see that making us better as a whole team - which ought to be the goal.

Edit: Yeah, see above for a good starting point and pieces the team may be more willing to move.

Bay, Ellsbury, and Buchholz is an awful lot to give up, but it's something you have to consider. A young catcher like Martin does not become available very often. Bay, Ellsbury, and Buchholz would obviously be the most I think the front office would consider, especially with Jones coming back and filling the gap in LF that trading Bay would leave.

I guess it all depends on whether or not they feel confident in signing Tex. They would also have to be confident in Andruw Jones returning to form. I really like this line up though heading into next year:

Drew
Pedroia
Ortiz
Tex
Youk
Martin
Jones
Lowrie/Lugo
Crisp

Lowell/Youk/Ortiz/Tex could all split time playing 3B/1B/DH and you would not be handcuffed if Lowell or Ortiz miss more time next year due to injuries.

I feel even with the loss of Ellsbury and Bay you improve the offense and still stay relatively young, add flexibility with Jones coming off the books the following year. It has to be something the FO would consider.

Even trading Buchholz you still could have a top 5 rotation in the MLB with

Beckett
Lester
Dice-K
Wakefield
Bowden/Masterson

DO34 -
Obviously making a trade along those lines you would have to be comfortable with Andruw Jones playing left field as a starter and being able to rebound from some very poor performance as of late. He hit .222 with a .311 OBP in a full season in 2007 (572 ABs), and showed no signs of reversing that in his injury-filled 2008 campaign (.158, .256 (209ABs). That type of decline, and low OBP make me think the Sox wouldn't want him being a significant part of the offense as he runs counter to the organizational approach of getting on base at a good clip. While he was a huge power threat and a gold glove defender for years, I just don't see that anymore and am not comfortable with the significant risk that poses.

Replacing Bay with Jones, in addition to giving up Ells + Buch doesn't seem to balance out the upgrade from Martin to Varitek.

So your plan is to replace a catcher who can still basically function as a catcher but put up a line at the plate of 220/313/359 with a now poor fielding outfielder who hit 158/256/249 in 75 games last year and only hit 222/311/413 in 2007. So you'd swap black holes in the lineup and weaken the outfield defense. If you take A Jones' contract you pay less in talent for Martin.

You want to trade 2/3 of the Sox outfield and their potential #4 starter in the rotation next year for a catcher and a corpse? That's a pipe dream for the Dodgers, not the Sox.

Yeah, that's boarder line insane. Have you actually (when healthy) SEEN Andruw Jones hit in the past 2 years? He swings from his heels, trying to kill the ball every time, regardless of pitcher, pitch count and game situation. The concept of trying to go the other way to advance a runner is foreign to him. I can't see sending Bay and Ellsbury, way too high a price if we would be eating Jones huge salary and suckiness. Jones would not be able to replace Bay's production, so you you would be out looking for a better bat to platoon with Jones, which would be expensive on top of $18M for Jones.