Yahoo & Sponichi are reporting that the Sox are among teams scouting Industrial League pitcher Junichi Tazawa. Important disclaimer: In the Japanese press, the Sox frequently get painted as probable favorites in many of these cases because they are so high profile and "important" in Japan these days. That is to say, it's still speculation.

Article in Japanese. Translating bits & pieces from the article, Tazawa was drafted by Orix last year but turned them down to play in the Industrial League. He just turned 22 in June, is a 5'11" 178 lb righty that tops out around 97-98. In March of this year he was the MVP of the "Sports Japan Tournament" (run by Sponichi the paper I guess?), and in the quarterfinals he struck out 18 guys.

At his Industrial League game yesterday were scouts from all 12 NPB teams, and several major league clubs including the Braves, Mets, and Sox. According to the article, Sox scout John Deeble, who saw Tazawa play at the Baseball World Cup last November in Taiwan, has already been given the go-ahead by Theo to try to sign him. In that heavily-scouted game yesterday, he went 8 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 12 K.

The article goes on to say that there are no clear rules prohibiting Industrial League draft candidates from signing with MLB teams, and that it should be possible for Tazawa to announce his intention to sign with the Sox (or anyone else) before the draft on October 30th. This will be closely watched since there has never been such a case before.

EDIT: Some discussion in English on this blog post ...Mostly the same info as above but also some comments from a guy who saw him pitch yesterday:

Tokyo,

What exactly is the industrial league, and what would you say it compares to here in the US? Is it a high minor-league level of play (AAA in nature?) or is it really just a good amateur level league (I'm thinking Cape Cod League)...or is it something completely different?

I'm really just trying get a clearer picture of the talent around him, and how his performance there really translates to his MLB readiness...

isn't the industrial league the league they signed that catcher out of earlier this year? or did i just make that up?


HANTA YO

From what I found on the net, its Japans minor leagues.

Where did Ryo Kumagai come from? (If thats his name)

It is like Japan's minor league, but not all of the players are bound to a JPB club (like all the minor league players in the states.) In that way it is also like the independent leagues in the U.S. My guess is, and Bill can probably confirm this, that by signing to that league instead of JPB he wouldn't be bound to his club for eight years before being a free agent (like Okajima) or having to go through the posting process (like Dice-K.)

The Japanese minor league system is so disorganized that it's not really possible to directly classify leagues or levels as A, AA, AAA, or anything else - especially for guys that we know this little about. The big league - NPB - consists of the 12 teams. Each of those has a "ni-gun", (nee-goon), or basically a 2nd-tier or AAA team. That's probably where any sort of comparison between the Japanese system and the US system ends.

Sooner Steve, "that catcher", Hayato Doue, was from the Shikoku Island Independent League. There are a few such independent leagues, that don't play each other, and don't have any affiliation with any big league clubs.

Different still from those, but again with no NPB affiliation, is the Industrial League. Kosuke Fukudome played for Nissay (Nihon Seimei, or Japan Life Insurance) team, before joining the Chunichi Dragons. He did so because the Kintetsu Buffaloes originally won his rights in the draft, but he didn't want to go NPB unless he could play for Chunichi or Yomiuri. In that sense his case sounds somewhat like this kid Tazawa, who was drafted by Orix but didn't want to play there. As Flynn4ever notes, it would seem that going to the Industrial Leagues is one of the few ways young Japanese players can avoid getting locked up for 7-8 years by an NPB club.

Technically, the Industrial League is amateur baseball -- the players are all company employees and get paid a salary to work for the company. Most, I imagine, have very little real day to day office responsibilities, but the baseball is technically not what they're being paid for.

bsj, to better answer your question - I think on average the industrial league is much lower than AAA but wouldn't venture a guess much further than that. Better than Cape League, not as good as AAA. But that's on average -- guys like Tazawa and Fukudome would probably have been starting for NPB teams in their first year, but opted not to play for teams they didn't like. So they're probably NPB-level players surrounded by A or something...that would explain Tazawa's 18 K's in one game.

I would expect that if Tazawa gets signed, he'd probably start in single-A just as a matter of course, and hopefully move up from there. And if that makes this more appropriate for a minor-league forum, dopes please move it.

Lurker smackdown924 sent me this youtube of some of Tazawa's performance last night. It picks up in the 4th after he's gone 3 perfect IP, K'ing 3 to that point, and shows his 4th & 5th innings where he K's 5 of 6. He seems consistently in the low 90's with the FB (rather than the 97-98 that Sponichi says he hits) but the breaking stuff looks decent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxRKY_Xg5tQ

Would it be expected that he would work out for any of the interested teams? I'd like for scouts from the Sox see him throw with an MLB regulation ball.

I have absolutely no idea

Thanks for the video!

Just my impression, but I would definitely not call Tazawa MLB-ready. NIce curve, but he left a lot of sliders up in the zone...and it seemed to me that he telegraphs his fastball by really straining when he lets that one go. Almost like he's trying way too hard to get velocity.

I'm sure minor league pitching coaches deal with a lot worse every day, in any case. At his age, he could be a nice prospect. Put him in AA or AAA and see how the hitters handle him and whether a good coach can iron out the kinks. I'm sure the bottling plant, or wherever he works/plays doesn't have anyone giving him any real baseball guidance..

Tazawa's delivery:



Some other stuff can be found here:

http://www.npbtracker.com/2008/09/more-on-tazawa/

Assuming the radar is accurate, I didn't see anything faster than 148 km/h on the youtube clip, which translates to about 92 mph. Not sure where the 97-98 mph was. That being said it does look like he has good movement on his fastball, tailing in on righties.

Re: the YouTube clip - nice sharp movement on the curve, very deceptive (but he needs to keep it more down in the zone). Pretty good command with the fastball - looks like he has both a 4 seamer and a slightly tailing 2 seamer. He works fast, which is always nice also. Lastly, what is with all the batters choaking up a couple inches on the bat - seems like they all just need to be using slightly smaller bats....

Hi all. Daigo of japaneseballplyers.com here. Updating Tokyo Sox's post, this week, Sports Nippon (sponichi), Nikkan Sports, and Daily Sports are all reporting he is likely to officially announce that he would like to play in MLB next year. Possible press conference on Wed, Sept. 11. Word is that he and his agent has already sent letters to 12 NPB teams not to consider him as a draft pick, to coincide with the conference.
Teams reportedly interested are Red Sox (Jon Deedle seen in multiple occasions, according to Sponichi), Tigers (Dick Egan, Special Assistant to GM seen, from sponichi), Yankees, Pirates, Cubs, Mariners, Mets, Braves (GM Frank Wren was in Tokyo Dome, from sponich), are the teams mentioned.

I think the bigger news is that the MLB teams are scouting and trying to sign pre-draft amateur players away from Japan. Yokohama, Nippon-Ham, Chunichi, and Chiba Lotte all at some point expressed an interest in drafting Tazawa in the first round. If they really wanted Tazawa, they can't even compete with the MLB teams since they can't sign without drafting him. Currently there is no rule preventing him from singing with MLB clubs before the draft and he has said to have interest in playing in US after his experience in 2007 Baseball World Cup (he pitched 8 innings and gave up 3 runs). Yomiuri Giants owner Takuo Takihana is already quoted saying that if the MLB teams sign him, there will be outrage from NPB (Nippon Pro Baseball) world, and threatening to boycott WBC. (NOTE: He is from the team which refuse to allow any of their player to "post", so take his comment with a grain of salt...)

Hi Daigo,
Hmmm, this interests me because we all (in Japan) know that Takihana is the de facto commisioner of JPB, so if that was what he wanted to do, the big-wigs here would certainly feel pressure to do something. BUT, there is no labor law nor agreement with MLB that would make blocking Tazawa from leaving Japan the least bit legal, so Takihana comes off looking like a spoiled, jingoistic brat. OTOH, the day that young talent starts looking overseas before playing here really would seem like the first step towards the JPB becoming nothing more than a minor league. I find it interesting also that Takihana might be the test case, because I don't think anyone considers him the 'sure thing' that a number of other Japanese players have been, but then again no one remembers Curt Flood for his outstanding on-field play.

There are a few very interesting parts to this story. Does Tazawa want to play in the US next year, or in MLB...? They are very obviously not necessarily the same thing. If he is intent on playing in MLB, does that make him more likely to sign with say the M's or the Pirates, rather than the Sox? All of the Japanese stories Daigo linked to say "MLB", yet in their sensational nature they also say the Red Sox have "emerged as the most prominent team." I wonder if anyone has discussed the possibility with him yet that he may be signed to a minor-league contract.

As for Takihana and his whining, perhaps this will serve as a wakeup call that the way he & the rest of the NPB OB network run the league is massively outdated. Perhaps, but probably not. That said while I'd like to think he's mostly full of hot air and bluster, a threatened WBC boycott is not to be taken lightly. A 2009 WBC without the defending champs would lose all credibility.

I didn't mean to suggest that Tazawa is MLB ready - I used the term MLB as in "not Japan". I would imagine it will be minor league contract, in fact I was going to suggest that this thread moved to Minor thread... (Unless some MLB team is really desperate, but too much of a risk, I think)

As for the landing team, I am sure Red Sox is high on Tazawa'a wish list because 1) Red Sox is a hot team (perhaps the hottest) in Japan - thanks to Daisuke/Okajima, and of 2) Red Sox's reputation for producing good young pitchers from the organization. Since there is no rules for amateur players in place right now, and he is practically free agent - free to sign with whoever foreign team he wishes - there is a real chance that Tazawa being in the Red Sox system... Of course it is all speculation on my part since I don't know anyone who knows the talk first hand. But the Sox has Denney Tomori, who speaks fluent Japanese, as special adviser (also pitched for Paw Sox few years back and knows Red Sox way), and there is 26-years-old Terumasa Matsuo who had 7-5 with 4.15 era season in Single A Greenville.

For the whole MLB/NPB rule see Kevin Millar fiasco in 2003, which still leaves bad taste in my mouth (I am a Dragons fan) and had me root for Jeremy Giambi to win 1B job that season. I am sure MLB will get their way. But I also think it would be a slap in the face of NBP especially more so if Tazawa decides to sign minor league deal with MLB team than to go drafted and be a part of rotation of a NBP team.

No no, I know you didn't -- but all of the articles in Japanese are (as you know) talking exclusively about "dai-riigu"/MLB. None of them have mentioned even the possibility of Tazawa starting in the minors, and I just wonder if he himself is aware that that's where he'd be likely to start.

I do agree that it would be a slap in the face of NPB as an organization if he chose the US minors over the Japanese big leagues, and I hope that that would not in any way tarnish the shining reputation the Sox now enjoy throughout most of Japan (save for maybe hardcore Chunichi fans like yourself) if the Sox did land him.

Source: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/sb20080911a2.html

Can't wait. Give him a contract and start him in Salem next year, tell him that we'll give him the time he needs to adjust to the American baseball and then he has a chance to earn his way as far as his arm will take him.

I read in the globe that the Sox are in the lead for his services, whatever that means. The only thing I get out of that is that the Sox are definitely interested in Tazawza. Hopefully we can sign him and add another pitcher with big potential to our farm system.

Would be roughly eqivalent to adding a somewhat older college pitcher, wouldn't it?.

Source: http://www.npbtracker.com/2008/09/the-tazawa-problem/

Now that the season is over and I'm thinking about the off season, I'd really like to see the Sox take a shot on this guy. He's probably going to want a major league contract, but I don't think that's a huge deal. If I'm Theo, I try to snag him and start him off in AA. If he gets off to a hot start, promote him to AAA in late June or early July and give him a late season call up if it's smooth from there.

I don't see any reason not to take a chance on the kid. He won't cost nearly as much as Daisuke (when you include the posting fee) and with Burnett and Sabathia on the free agent market, you might not have a lot of attention focused on him early on.

Tazawa has reiterated his intention to head to the States, saying he will not negotiate with any NPB team even if they select him in next week's draft. JapanBall story.

Thanksgiving at the Tazawa residence?

Any idea what we'd be talking about money wise on this guy?

As he had hoped Tazawa went undrafted in the NPB League Draft.
Tazawa is also banned from NPB for 3 years...

LINK

I remember reading reports that Daisuke's fastball got up that high, too. Even still, I want to see Theo take a chance on him.

If you watched the youtube videos floating around before he was posted, you would never see his FB above 150-151 KPH (which is 93-94) on the Japanese broadcasts. I think if anything the reports were simply lazy reporting.

Edit: This video of Tazawa says he can get his FB up to 156KPH which is about 96mph. FWIW..

http://news.bostonherald.com/sports/baseba...p;position=also

Here's at least part of the problem:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/b...jake_peavy.html

They'd be nuts not to be searching far and wide for pitching, but other things being equal, why would he go to the Braves? Have they ever had a japanese player? The Red Sox would seem to have more money than Atlanta and a leg up in proving that they can reasonably accommodate Japanese players.

More importantly, what does Tazawa have to do with the Braves search for "two proven starting pitchers and a power-hitting outfielder"? Tazawa is neither of these. He is a very talented, at least if the reports I've read are accurate, prospect. That isn't to say the Braves shouldn't be looking at him, but I have to believe that they are smart enough as an organization to not be looking at him as an immediate answer in their rotation.

How much would this cost and what kind of talent is he? I mean it sounds like he has a comparable amount of experience to a college starter but a first round pick? Sandwich round? Top 10? Speier reported that the Braves were willing to offer a major league deal, should the RS match that?

Most of what I've seen posted here suggests he'd be a first round pick. If he was coming out of college, he'd probably be one of the top pitching talents in his class. The money is an interesting question, though. He'll probably start out by asking for a major league contract and hopefully all of the teams talking to him will refuse. Unfortunately, I can see a scenario where another club offers a major league contract and a major league debut by a certain date to seal the deal while Theo sticks to his guns (and rightfully so). Especially a team with a weaker back end of the rotation that could slot him in and reasonably expect an upgrade. Seattle might be willing to do this if they decide to rebuild anyway.

Edit: Corsi just posted this: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1980090

So apparently the Braves are willing to give him a major league contract already. Don't know if Theo would go there, but if that's what it takes to land him... I'd do it. As long as his contract doesn't include an escape clause if he isn't pitching in the majors by a date in the 2009 season.

I certainly hope the Sox land Tazawa, but I wonder how far they'd go to get him. I think the Sox were willing to pay Alex Meyer a $2.5 million signing bonus. If the price for Tazawa went above that, with a major league contract as well, would the Sox still pursue Tazawa? I still hope so.

Another side benefit to landing Tazawa would be that it might make it easier for the Sox to deal Michael Bowden (instead of Buchholz) for either Saltalamacchia or Teagarden. It would be tough for the Sox to deal either Buchholz (I still think he will blossom into a #2 starter or even better) or Bowden or even Kris Johnson as they will be needed by the end of 2009 to help out the rotation, but with Tazawa in the farm system (not necessarily major league ready in 2009), the Sox would have another potential impact starter, which could be useful as Beckett approaches free agency after 2010.

It looks like the Red Sox would need to dwarf what they offered Meyer and at least match what Atlanta has offered Tazawa. Hopefully the Sox do, because this is a talent the Red Sox should use their financial muscle to go after if they're not going to break the bank on a starting pitcher.

I find all of this confusing beyond hope - from the above posts I glean:

1. Tazawa didn't want to play in the NPB and instead wants to play in the U.S., so the NPB accomodated him by not drafting him.

2. Even if an NPB team had drafted him, Tazawa would be banned from the league for 2 yrs anyway because he played industrial league ball.

3. Even though the NPB teams acquiesced to Tazawa's desire to play for an MLB team, and even though no NPB team could have him for 2 more years, the NPB will be SO pissed if a MLB team signs Tazawa that they will boycott the WBC.

Maybe I'm not getting it, but NONE of that makes any sense. If the NPB doesn't want the player jumping from HS to the industrial league and then MLB, the simple expedient is to say "screw you," draft him anyway, and see if he's serious about leaving NPB$'s on the table even though he would then have NO prospect for an MLB career or MLB $s in the near future.

Back during the Millar saga, I remember (Gammons?) speculation that NPB's plan for Millar's refusal to "honor" his agreement to come over there was to screw him by not letting the Red Sox or any other MLB team buy him back. This would have prevented Millar from playing anywhere, and the destruction of his career would then serve as payback for his refusal to play in Japan.

But let's assume a "screw you" treatment like that is not only for gaijin. Does that mean that NPB "acquiesced" to Tazawa's wishes because it also expected MLB to abide by the "gentlemen's agreement" and not sign him? If so, then the net yield of Tazawa's refusal to sign with the NPB would be that he'd get neither an MLB or an NPB contract - and a forced return to the industrial league for the indefinite future - at least until he gave in and agreed to be drafted and signed by an NPB team.

If that's how NPB is intending to play it, then that's the only way this makes sense to me. In this scenario MLB's refusal to abide by the gentlemen's agreement would destroy the NPB's method of "handling" Tazawa's refusal to play NPB ball - and would perhaps justify anger that would lead to a WBC boycott? Otherwise, I just don't get it.

Your point 1. below is correct, but after that you've got the NPB banning thing confused/backwards -- they would not allow him to play in NPB for 3 years upon returning to Japan if he were to go play overseas (not just MLB) before ever playing in NPB. So, if he does now sign with an MLB team, the threat hanging over him is that if it doesn't work out for some reason, he'd and up having to sit out 3 years before breaking back into Japanese baseball if that's what he wants to do. Having played Industrial League ball is not the problem, NPB are fine with that.

Of course due to the fact that ML team that signs him will likely award a signing bonus (and maybe even major league contract) that is likely to be worth many times what he would have received from any Japanese team (where he would have been looking at, at most, around 1 million dollars) this rule does not have the teeth to prevent what the NPB fears most: namely, the flight of top tier prospects to America. Oddly, it is more likely to be effective at preventing lower tier players from considering such a move as they would be more likely to receive better money in Japan (where lower round draft picks receive comparatively higher signing bonuses than their American equivalents) than in America. The better way to prevent more Japanese studs from following Tazawa's lead is simply to increase signing bonuses for elite prospects. As it currently stands it would have taken Tazawa much success and many years to make the same money in Japan that he will make immediately by signing in America.

Using three free translation sites, I think that this new article says the Red Sox have stepped up talks with Tazawa and he has nothing but good things to say about the Red Sox.

From the translation of that link:

If the Sox announced a full scale war, could they institute a draft from SoSH? How would I go about getting a deferment, fleeing the country (to Canada- Blue Jays?)?

The important parts of that article:

- Tazawa has decided not to hire an agent
- His coach at Eneos, Okubo, has been his only "representation" so far, and confirmed that the Indians are the 5th and latest team to meet him directly, and the 9th team in all to express interest.
- Longer middle paragraph discusses why he's not choosing an agent yet. Doesn't want to be treated like a VIP, just wants to discuss with his coach and move forward.
- Yesterday (11-Nov) the Red Sox announced their intention to "join the battle in earnest" (this is the full-scale war part.)
- Tazawa is heading to Osaka on the 15th, and will pitch vs Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Kobe in the 1st game of that tournament. The Indians & other teams have said they'd like to negotiate with him during that tournament, and he & Okubo seem ok with that, which is new. Previously they'd said they don't really want to discuss anything until afterwards.

Tazawa pitched today, in the Industrial League Tournament, in front of MLB scouts from 7 different clubs.

4 K, 5 H, complete game shutout.

Article in Japanese

From translations I gather he was throwing 94 MPH with a good slider, a scout said he had good control and Major League stuff. Six of the seven teams there were the Mariners, Rangers, Tigers, Giants, Phillies and Indians, I guess the Braves were the 7th.

Source: http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/ma...ith_mazz_2.html

Japanese pitcher provokes tension with the U.S.

Good move by Cashman, the Yankees clearly need to keep open their successful pipeline of Japanese pitching.

And, possibly, international trade agreements?

The whole debate about whether a "gentleman's agreement" re: going after amateurs exists and whether it should continue to be observed in the future is kind of silly; they may as well be trying to figure out how to reinstitute the reserve clause. In this day and age, if a talented Japanese kid who is not under contract with another organization wants to try his luck in the US (or vice versa), there's really not a hell of a lot that can be done to stop him.