I had a friend of mine today leave me a voice mail that went something like this. "You're aware the Bruins have the hockey version of AFraud in Joe Thornton. Overly talented and never there when it counts."
I tried hard to refute that...and I couldn't. Again I do agree, the offense isn't the problem. Went back and looked at some of the stats and I might have been a little too harsh on Raycroft. I don't think he's elite, but he's good. The D is wretched, and Tanabe isn't going to fix that at all.
Full Version: Official 2005 Bruins Thread
QUOTE (DaveJstice @ Nov 30 2005, 10:05 PM)
I had a friend of mine today leave me a voice mail that went something like this. "You're aware the Bruins have the hockey version of AFraud in Joe Thornton. Overly talented and never there when it counts."
I tried hard to refute that...and I couldn't. Again I do agree, the offense isn't the problem. Went back and looked at some of the stats and I might have been a little too harsh on Raycroft. I don't think he's elite, but he's good. The D is wretched, and Tanabe isn't going to fix that at all.
I tried hard to refute that...and I couldn't. Again I do agree, the offense isn't the problem. Went back and looked at some of the stats and I might have been a little too harsh on Raycroft. I don't think he's elite, but he's good. The D is wretched, and Tanabe isn't going to fix that at all.
Hey, Dave, call your friend back and just say, "Joe Who?"
Funny you posted that JUST as the deal was being announced.
Dave: Fuck you, Nip.
Eh...completely unaware that Joe was gonna be dealt as I was posting that. I'll post thoughts in the other Thornton thread.
I'm liking the move.
Sturm has a G and an assist, Stuart has an assist as well on a beautiful Bergeron PPG. Toivonen makes a great stop on a Smolinski breakaway, it's 2-0 B's through 12 minutes.
Ewing theory? 
Is that Frank Thomas behind the Bruins bench in the stands?
Is that Frank Thomas behind the Bruins bench in the stands?
"Stuart takes the hooking penalty trying to cover up for Boynton."
Right into the swing of things?
Right into the swing of things?
I fucking love this Boyes-Bergeron-Axelsson combo. Great shift in the middle of the second, 3 glimmering scoring chances.
QUOTE (PedroSpecialK @ Dec 1 2005, 08:08 PM)
I fucking love this Boyes-Bergeron-Axelsson combo. Great shift in the middle of the second, 3 glimmering scoring chances.
Im not sure if that is permanent, I think Sturm was on the line and Axe was w/ Primeau at the start of the game.
hannu playing like a stud tonight.
i wonder what is being offered for sammy / razor at this point.
i wonder what is being offered for sammy / razor at this point.
QUOTE (John Dopson @ Dec 1 2005, 08:21 PM)
Im not sure if that is permanent, I think Sturm was on the line and Axe was w/ Primeau at the start of the game.
Yeah, I think it should be permanent, or that Bergeron and Boyes should be paired on the 2nd line with Sturm or Axelsson, maybe even Isbister.
QUOTE (PedroSpecialK @ Dec 1 2005, 08:08 PM)
I fucking love this Boyes-Bergeron-Axelsson combo. Great shift in the middle of the second, 3 glimmering scoring chances.
I think Sturm had the first shot there and then went off on a line change. Then PJ came in and joined B & B for the rest of it.
Great game. Now maybe we can trade Raycroft for Turner Stevenson.
Wow. First full game I watched all season.
These guys ain't so bad?
(/ducking)
These guys ain't so bad?
(/ducking)
The person who is going to like this trade the best... Nick Boynton! Playing defense with Brad Stuart is a lot more fun than playing defense with Hal Gill!
The Bruins played with a lot more speed and energy than they have in a long time...
The Bruins played with a lot more speed and energy than they have in a long time...
They shutout the best team in hockey. Just winning would have been a tremendous accomplishement.
Was Heatley's point streak stopped before tonight or did we do it?
Was Heatley's point streak stopped before tonight or did we do it?
I really enjoyed that one. Admittedly, I tuned in to watch an angry mob burn down the Shawmut/Fleet/TDBN Garden.
One game of course, but it will be very interesting to see what happens from here on out.
One game of course, but it will be very interesting to see what happens from here on out.
QUOTE (Bosoxx @ Dec 1 2005, 09:27 PM)
Was Heatley's point streak stopped before tonight or did we do it?
Dead in his tracks.
Great 60 mins of hockey from the B's. It's been a long time coming.
Hal Gill got the correct amount of ice time tonight.
The least among B's defensemen.
The least among B's defensemen.
Point (actually 2 points) Bear.
Looks like everyone is back on the bandwagon, well that took a whole 6 hours to happen, I still say fuck this team and winning one game (i dont care who it is against) doesn't mean shit.
Other then that have a great night!
Other then that have a great night!
QUOTE (PedroSpecialK @ Dec 1 2005, 09:42 PM)
Hal Gill got the correct amount of ice time tonight.
No he didn't - he got about 12 minutes more than he shoulod have had.I like our 4th pair (Alberts/Dallman) a LOT better than our 3rd pair (Gill/Slegr).
I'd like to see Sullivan start rotating starts between Raycroft and Hannu. Hannu deserves more playing time and already has more wins than Raycroft despite far fewer starts.
QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Dec 2 2005, 09:09 AM)
I'd like to see Sullivan start rotating starts between Raycroft and Hannu. Hannu deserves more playing time and already has more wins than Raycroft despite far fewer starts.
I agree. While I am by no means a Bruins fanatic, I tuned in last night for the 7th or 8th time and 3rd time with Hannu between the pipes. I really like him in net. With Tim Thomas rotting in PAW, is it time to see what the market will bear for Raycroft? The B's could shore up the D even more by dealing Raycroft and still have a "goalie of the future" in the (IMO) better Hannu.
QUOTE (soxfan121 @ Dec 2 2005, 09:47 AM)
I agree. While I am by no means a Bruins fanatic, I tuned in last night for the 7th or 8th time and 3rd time with Hannu between the pipes. I really like him in net. With Tim Thomas rotting in PAW, is it time to see what the market will bear for Raycroft? The B's could shore up the D even more by dealing Raycroft and still have a "goalie of the future" in the (IMO) better Hannu.
I wouldn't explore deaing Raycroft just yet. I'd like to see Hannu get some more time in goal first before making any decisions along those lines.
QUOTE (Sille Skrub @ Dec 2 2005, 02:29 AM)
One game of course, but it will be very interesting to see what happens from here on out.
Agreed. I am certainly not hanging the championship banner outside my house anytime soon but last night's game at least showed that this team can, on occasion, pull its shit together...I don't see a playoff ridden future but at least the ride to the end might get a little more interesting now (i.e. I may watch more than the first three minutes of the third period, scream "fuck these assholes" and flip to the Biggest Loser). 
(I am not drawing an analogy in the trade itself, merely the fan love for the player) the Sox traded their THorton in Nomar and that seems to have worked out ok public relations-wise so far....
The boyfriend spent the majority of the beginning of this season calling Thorton the Manny of the Bruins, great player but only tries really hard when he feels like it...not an entirely inaccurate analogy, IMHO.
QUOTE (Madison33 @ Dec 2 2005, 09:56 AM)
The boyfriend spent the majority of the beginning of this season calling Thorton the Manny of the Bruins, great player but only tries really hard when he feels like it...not an entirely inaccurate analogy, IMHO.
Not a bad analogy. I think the difference is that you can have a Manny on a baseball team, if he is a great hitter. And there has never been a time when the whole Red Sox team just sat around waiting for Manny to win the game. Manny could be Manny, but the other 24 guys weren't Manny. With the Bruins, instead of "Joe being Joe", everyone followed his lead. And Joe was the only guy anywhere near good enough to play that way and make it work.
QUOTE (Eddie Jurak @ Dec 2 2005, 03:10 PM)
Not a bad analogy. I think the difference is that you can have a Manny on a baseball team, if he is a great hitter. And there has never been a time when the whole Red Sox team just sat around waiting for Manny to win the game. Manny could be Manny, but the other 24 guys weren't Manny. With the Bruins, instead of "Joe being Joe", everyone followed his lead. And Joe was the only guy anywhere near good enough to play that way and make it work.
Absolutely true...Joe was the captain of the team after all...good example or bad, he set the floor for everyone else...he half ass's it, so does everybody else.
QUOTE (Madison33 @ Dec 2 2005, 12:03 PM)
Absolutely true...Joe was the captain of the team after all...good example or bad, he set the floor for everyone else...he half ass's it, so does everybody else.
Joe probably should never have been named captain in the first place. He's not a bad guy, but he's extremely laid back. I think he never had the presonality to become a leader and a captain. He doesn't have it now, and he certainly didn't have it 3 years ago at age 23. He's immensely talented and had a the tendency to let his talent do his work for him instead of an all out effort.
He would have been fine sporting an "A", but all parties involved would have been better off had the title of captain been given to someone else.
QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Dec 2 2005, 09:49 AM)
I wouldn't explore deaing Raycroft just yet. I'd like to see Hannu get some more time in goal first before making any decisions along those lines.
Agreed.I think Hannu may have more talent than Raycroft, but right now I think Razor is still the better keeper.
Oh, and check out this website: The Goaltender Home Page
QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Dec 2 2005, 05:22 PM)
Joe probably should never have been named captain in the first place. He's not a bad guy, but he's extremely laid back. I think he never had the presonality to become a leader and a captain. He doesn't have it now, and he certainly didn't have it 3 years ago at age 23. He's immensely talented and had a the tendency to let his talent do his work for him instead of an all out effort.
He would have been fine sporting an "A", but all parties involved would have been better off had the title of captain been given to someone else.
He would have been fine sporting an "A", but all parties involved would have been better off had the title of captain been given to someone else.
I absolutely agree with you. I remember thinking when he was named that it would never work out. Unlike the Captain you see with the Sox, whether C'd or not, Joe doesn't/didn't ever seem like the kind of guy who had the balls to kick his team in the ass or kick the game into gear if he needed to.
Obviously, baseball and hockey are very different in most respects but the role of a so-called captain on a team is to be a leader, a motivator, and an example to follow, so to speak. Varitek is certainly not the best player on the Red Sox, but no matter what, he didn't let what talent he has suffice, he always goes one, if not fifty, steps further. Clement has gone on record stating that Tek was a reason for his decision to sign here...with the possible exception of Glen Murray, how many Bruins would say that about Thorton?
Toronto's Tie Domi weighs in on the Thornton trade and Jeremy Jacobs:
Toronto Sun
QUOTE
The deal saved the Bruins about $1.6 million US in salary, a fact that was not lost on Domi.
"I don't think (Jacobs) cares about his team," Domi told a scrum of reporters at Philips Arena. "If he doesn't want to be involved in hockey I think he should step aside. There are a lot of people who would want to buy that franchise for sure.
"It's unfortunate for hockey (when) one of the original six teams has an owner like that. He was a hardliner through the whole work stoppage, now he's got a salary cap and now he wants to drop his salaries even lower. To be honest I'm not surprised. Jacobs is the guy who stood firm through the whole work stoppage and now his true colours are coming out.
"I think it's terrible for hockey, I think it's terrible for the Boston market. When the Boston rink is empty it's not good for hockey."
"I don't think (Jacobs) cares about his team," Domi told a scrum of reporters at Philips Arena. "If he doesn't want to be involved in hockey I think he should step aside. There are a lot of people who would want to buy that franchise for sure.
"It's unfortunate for hockey (when) one of the original six teams has an owner like that. He was a hardliner through the whole work stoppage, now he's got a salary cap and now he wants to drop his salaries even lower. To be honest I'm not surprised. Jacobs is the guy who stood firm through the whole work stoppage and now his true colours are coming out.
"I think it's terrible for hockey, I think it's terrible for the Boston market. When the Boston rink is empty it's not good for hockey."
Toronto Sun
QUOTE (Nuf Ced @ Dec 2 2005, 01:51 PM)
That's funny, since the Leafs have gone even longer without winning a Cup than the Bruins have, despite having by far the largest fanbase and most money in all of hockey.
They have the obnoxiousness of the Yankees, without the championships to back it up.
Globe and Mail's Eric Duhatschek has a good summary of the deal in his new notebook.
Full notebook (great, long read)
QUOTE
Wilson confirmed that he'd been, "talking with Boston about several different things. In the last few weeks, several teams called me and asked me about some of our top players. I didn't offer them out, but I said, 'obviously, if you're talking about one of my key players, that means you must be talking about one of your key players.' That's just how it all evolves.
"By listening, you don't prevent something from happening without you, or at least, being in the loop on a deal, or having the opportunity to say, 'this fits what we're trying to do and where we're trying to get to.'"
Understandably, some teams who might have wanted to bid on Thornton couldn't do so because of the salary-cap ramifications of the deal — he earns $6.66 million per season for the next three years. However, at least one other team, the Chicago Blackhawks, wanted to prepare a package for Thornton, but didn't get a chance to assemble an offer before O'Connell grabbed the three players that Wilson was willing to surrender.
"By listening, you don't prevent something from happening without you, or at least, being in the loop on a deal, or having the opportunity to say, 'this fits what we're trying to do and where we're trying to get to.'"
Understandably, some teams who might have wanted to bid on Thornton couldn't do so because of the salary-cap ramifications of the deal — he earns $6.66 million per season for the next three years. However, at least one other team, the Chicago Blackhawks, wanted to prepare a package for Thornton, but didn't get a chance to assemble an offer before O'Connell grabbed the three players that Wilson was willing to surrender.
Full notebook (great, long read)
QUOTE (Tie Domi @ Dec 2 2005, 06:51 PM)
"I think it's terrible for hockey, I think it's terrible for the Boston market. When the Boston rink is empty it's not good for hockey."
Domi is an idiot. If the Bruins kept playing 12th place (or worse) hockey the Garden was going to be empty Joe Thornton or no Joe Thornton.
sure maybe they could have traded Samsanov and other things and gotten a defenseman, and maybe they would have gotten a bit better, But it sure seemed pretty clear that the team wasn't going anywhere with Joe. and it also seemed pretty clear that because of the deal Joe got, and of course the 2 big deal MO gave out to prove to Joe that the Bruins were going to compete (including giving Joe's caddy 4 mil a year). The bruins were going to be in a situation where next year's team was going to look a lot like the pathetic bunch that skated around for the first two months
QUOTE (BigMike @ Dec 2 2005, 07:40 PM)
Domi is an idiot. If the Bruins kept playing 12th place (or worse) hockey the Garden was going to be empty Joe Thornton or no Joe Thornton.
sure maybe they could have traded Samsanov and other things and gotten a defenseman, and maybe they would have gotten a bit better, But it sure seemed pretty clear that the team wasn't going anywhere with Joe. and it also seemed pretty clear that because of the deal Joe got, and of course the 2 big deal MO gave out to prove to Joe that the Bruins were going to compete (including giving Joe's caddy 4 mil a year). The bruins were going to be in a situation where next year's team was going to look a lot like the pathetic bunch that skated around for the first two months
sure maybe they could have traded Samsanov and other things and gotten a defenseman, and maybe they would have gotten a bit better, But it sure seemed pretty clear that the team wasn't going anywhere with Joe. and it also seemed pretty clear that because of the deal Joe got, and of course the 2 big deal MO gave out to prove to Joe that the Bruins were going to compete (including giving Joe's caddy 4 mil a year). The bruins were going to be in a situation where next year's team was going to look a lot like the pathetic bunch that skated around for the first two months
A little of it was sourgrapes about the lockout .. but then again he has jacobs nailed down, just like the fans in boston do, sad when other hockey players come out and say an owner is cheap and doesnt care about the team he cares about the money (which i think we all agree is pretty much on the nose). The part that I think about is players out there that we would like to have, that probably feel THE same way about "our" owner... and would never play here just for that very reason.
via the bruins' pregame show, Dallman has been snatched up by St. Louis after being sent down and put on waivers automatically. I can't say that I'm real happy that we chose to lose Dallman on waivers as opposed to cut or trade Gill.
QUOTE (PedroSpecialK @ Dec 4 2005, 02:39 AM)
via the bruins' pregame show, Dallman has been snatched up by St. Louis after being sent down and put on waivers automatically. I can't say that I'm real happy that we chose to lose Dallman on waivers as opposed to cut or trade Gill.
Honestly I can't say I care much. I guess Dallman wasn't a bad 7th defenseman, but he did very little for me. I am only bugged that the haven't been able to pick up a 5th round pick for a couple of these waived guys.
Unless some team makes a good offer for Hal, I suspect he finishes this season in Boston. Now that he is back to being a 5/6 defenseman he isn't that bad, and he is a good penalty killer.
I am more dissapointed with Alberts being sent down. Hopefully that is just temporary to help him clear his head, and he will come back in a couple of weeks.
Hannu back in goal tonight.
we look like we're standing still. fucking Georges Laraque is a force tonight - this isn't going to end well.
Oh boy...
Tied at 3 now, and like i said earlier, i love the Boyes-Bergeron-Whoever combination (tonight it's Sturm). Boyes has 2 goals tonight, and Toivonen's starting to play incredibly well after giving up that 3rd goal.
edit: now this Boston's Greatest Sports Stories '05 commercial is getting out-of-hand comical. First, they have a clip of Thornton saying "this is the city i love, this is where i want to be", then "Manny Ramirez, Red Sox Center Fielder" saying his Manny being Manny bit.
Comedy.
Tied at 3 now, and like i said earlier, i love the Boyes-Bergeron-Whoever combination (tonight it's Sturm). Boyes has 2 goals tonight, and Toivonen's starting to play incredibly well after giving up that 3rd goal.
edit: now this Boston's Greatest Sports Stories '05 commercial is getting out-of-hand comical. First, they have a clip of Thornton saying "this is the city i love, this is where i want to be", then "Manny Ramirez, Red Sox Center Fielder" saying his Manny being Manny bit.
Comedy.
What.
A.
Fucking.
Game.
Tanabe gets a beautiful feed cross-ice from leetch for a game-winning one-timer with a few seconds left in overtime. Just from watching this game, though, something needs to be done about Jiri Slegr. He seems to go through these amazingly long, horrbile streaks of badness on the defensive end. Regardless, this was easily the best game to watch this season.
A.
Fucking.
Game.
Tanabe gets a beautiful feed cross-ice from leetch for a game-winning one-timer with a few seconds left in overtime. Just from watching this game, though, something needs to be done about Jiri Slegr. He seems to go through these amazingly long, horrbile streaks of badness on the defensive end. Regardless, this was easily the best game to watch this season.
QUOTE (PedroSpecialK @ Dec 4 2005, 05:38 AM)
What.
A.
Fucking.
Game.
A.
Fucking.
Game.
Absolutely the game of the year. Bruins played unbelievable badly for about a 15 minute stretch between the end of the first, and the first 5 minutes of the second. But then amazingly turned the game around and played brilliantly for the final 40 minutes.
These last two games are only about the 4th and 5th games I've been able to catch from start to finish all year, and by far the most entertaining games of the season. I was never a Joe Thornton fan and he aggravated me more than anything when watching him play.
Whether they got enough in the deal is a discussion for another day, if this team keeps playing like this, they should at least be more dangerous, and definitely more entertaining than before the trade
Whether they got enough in the deal is a discussion for another day, if this team keeps playing like this, they should at least be more dangerous, and definitely more entertaining than before the trade
Via NESN pregame -
Toivonen making the start tonight again, Murray a game time decision.
Gotta say I'm happy about both of those.
Toivonen making the start tonight again, Murray a game time decision.
Gotta say I'm happy about both of those.
Yikes, that is a pretty sad stache that P.J. is sporting these days. Swedes and stache's just don't work
Hopefully Murray is healthy. They could use him. plus they need to see if he can fit with this new team.
Argh, Murray in and Sammy out injured.
Hopefully Murray is healthy. They could use him. plus they need to see if he can fit with this new team.
Argh, Murray in and Sammy out injured.
NICE FUCKING D. Can we get the puck out of our zone.
Very sloppy, led of course by assistant captain Hal Gill.
Very sloppy, led of course by assistant captain Hal Gill.
QUOTE (SoxScout @ Dec 4 2005, 10:16 PM)
NICE FUCKING D. Can we get the puck out of our zone. please.
Toivonen is playing like an All-Star - I think it's safe to say that we can start dangling Raycroft on the trade market. Hal Gill is a fucking stooge on defense - some things never change.
edit: And Gill loses the puck while attempting to puck handle while going backwards towards the front of his net. Luckily, no Vancouver player was there to capitalize on his foolishness.
edit 2: And another abortion of an outlet pass by Gill leads to a scoring opportunity for Naslund. Good job, Hal, you're earning every penny of that $1.6m
Brad Boyes is becoming one absolute hell of a forward for this team. I liked the Jillson deal when it happened, and I absolutely love it now. 2-2 now with a few left in the 2nd.
I love Bergeron, but Patrice is going to have to work on finishing some of these chances. he should have a couple tonight.
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