In the Nova thread, HoyaSoxa made this comment which got me going. Thinks there's enough Big East fans here to make it work.


Louisville has tons of size, plus a candidate for preseason conf. POY in Taquan Dean. A lot will ride on the potential of Brian Johnson and David Padgett (of Kansas fame). But based on the major losses, I can't see Louisville as preseason top 10, as some have claimed.

Syracuse is another interesting case. A great scorer and go-to guy in McNamara, plus solid supporting players in Roberts and McCroskey. A lot will depend on the PGs though, will Wright or Devendorf live up to their high school hype? Wright had a year to develop, so if he can step into a bigger role he can help free up McNamara, as well as give him some much needed rest.

WVU did lose two big bodies in Fischer and Sally, but I don't think their impact is going to be too much. Fischer was a part time player, while Sally's role should be filled by Young. Plus, remember how Gansy started so slowly finding his niche in that offense. There's something to be said for a team playing together, and they return many of the key components to last year's squad. If I were to throw together preseason projections, I would put them 4th in the conf. (behind Nova, UConn and Syracuse).

Georgetown should be very good as well, a lot riding on Ashanti Cook though. We know they have a great pair of forwards in Green and Bowman, and you can't teach Hibbert's size. But to rise to the upper echelon again, they'll need better PG play.

Cincinnati is a huge question mark. They have some great athletes in White and Muhammad as well as toughness from Hicks and Johnson. But are they going to be in the Huggins mold? How will they respond to Kennedy? And they are very thin on the perimeter.

I think people are sleeping on Pitt a little bit. This isn't the team that had a great run and lost their inside game in Troutman and Taft, but do bring back Krauser, a decent go-to guy in late game situations. If Kendall can play as well as he did over the summer (ie: dropping 40 on Team USA in the U-21), they could have a couple weapons on the perimeter.

I will give my take as a very close observer of Georgetown and I will say RBM's initial thoughts are pretty accurate: the Hoyas frontcourt is as good as anyone in the Big East, but their backcourt is not on the same level as teams like Villanova and WVU, and college basketball tends to require strong guard play.

I think the best GU can hope for is steady guard play with both starters returning with a full year in the Princetown offense under their belt. Jon Wallace showed early promise as an outside shooter, then faded down the stretch, but he makes good decisions and handles the ball well, especially for a walk-on. He may lose PT to more talented freshmen. Cook is a senior who was the third leading scorer on the team last year and has the potential to carry the team offensively, but he is a streaky shooter and not much of penetrator. Neither Cook nor Wallace is a great defensive player, and last year's occasional defensive stopper, Ray Reed, transferred out.

That means GU will need contributions from some combination of soph Tyler Crawford and frosh Jesse Sapp and Josh Thornton. Crawford was a tough player who earned PT as the season went on, but he played more as a third guard on the floor and did not show great handle or outside shooting ability. Sapp is supposedly a strong guard who can get to the basket while Thornton is known primarily as a shooter, which would be a nice weapon to have with all the outside shots the offense seems to create.

There has been a fair amount of talk about Roy Hibbert's dramatic improvement over the summer, but I will need to see it to believe it. He has some potential and had a few great games last year. He is needed to improve rebounding and defense, the weaknesses of last years team, but at the same time he sometimes seems to bog down the offense which runs so much better through Jeff Green in the high post. He should start this year, but I doubt he gets more minutes than Darrell Owens, coming back for a fifth year as the presumptive sixth man/shooter.

Bowman and Green are the two studs and potential first team All-BE guys. Bowman needs to show NBA types that he can play defense against quick small forwards and continue to play under control. He has improved every year and should be hungry to go to the tournament as a senior. Green has shorn his trademark dreadlocks and he will look to remind people that Rudy Gay is not the only big time sophomore in the conference. He was the best passer on the team last year and an occasional 3 pt threat, but he could still develop a more polished offensive game.

It is too bad Patrick Ewing Jr. has to sit out this year, he could really help add depth to the frontcourt, which is still fairly thin if anyone runs into foul trouble. This team should be good and players like Bowman, Owens, and Cook clearly are not looking too far into the future, but next year could be even better, with a recruiting class that already includes Vernon Macklin, DaJuan Summers, and Jeremiah Rivers and may still add Duke Crews to go along with the aforementioned Mr. Ewing. In any case, I am excited about the program and looking forward to this season more than any I can remember since coming to GU in the fall of 1996.

Media Day at MSG is tomorrow. CSTV is showing it live BE Media Day Live.

We have Seton Hall in the NIT on Nov. 16th (ESPN) & 'Cuse in the Coaches vs. Cancer on Nov. 17th (ESPN2). I'm looking forward to seeing the pre-season conference selections.

Just throwing out my preseason all-conf picks:

POY: Taquan Dean
Gerry McNamara
Allen Ray
Rudy Gay
Josh Boone

2nd team
Jeff Green
Randy Foye
Mike Gansey
Daryll Hill
Carl Krauser

My Predictions:

POY: Rudy Gay
Taquan Dean
Gerry McNamara
Allen Ray
Josh Boone

2nd Team:
Jeff Green
Randy Foye
Eric Hicks
Daryll Hill
Carl Krauser

ROY: Eric Devendorf

POY: Gay
Jeff Green
Taquan Dean
Allen Ray
Gerry McNamara

2nd Team:
Josh Boone
Brandon Bowman
Eric Hicks
Daryll Hill
Carl Krauser

3rd Team:
Randy Foye
Kyle Lowery
Mike Gansey
Kevin Pittsnoggle
Chris Quinn

ROY: Eric Devendorf

If Marcus Williams is playing this year, he immediately jumps into the conversation for the first team too.

I was about to say no question, but I'm not so sure. If he can't return until January, that would put him in line easily, but what shape would he return in? There are some very good guards around the conference, and to expect him to just jump in mid-season may be asking a lot of him.

When I said Marcus Williams "jumps into the conversation," what I should have said is Williams is the best point guard in the conference, and I don't think it is really close. McNamara and Dean are very good combo players and Krauser is solid, but Williams is a clear future NBA starter at the point. The only question is how long will he sit and how much will that effect his play initially.

For ROY, don't sleep on Johnson at UConn or Biggs at Pitt. Devendorf has the advantage of being a need guy right now at Syracuse (he can shoot), but I like both those guys too.

I agree. I also think Terrence Roberts has a shot at replacing Hicks on the 2nd Team. At the very least, he can and should be a 3rd Team selection. And, yes, I am biased.

Unless Johnson can play the point, I'm not sure he's going to have more of a chance to make an impact than Austrie. If you're looking for ROY candidates, you may want to start and end with the Louisville front line, where it could be either Padgett or (if healthy) Brian Johnson.

10 Men on the preseason All-Conference team, as picked by coaches, and Jeff Green is not one of them. Curtis Sumpter is, so I don't know when the poll was conducted. With 16 teams there is going to be a lot of competition for these spots- my only real argument is placing Pittsnoggle on that list. Also, Nova picked first by the coaches.

The media poll is a bit different, with Green on the second team and no Pittsnoggle. Both coaches and media have Hoyas sixth, although the media revoted after the Sumpter injury and made UCon their pick.

10 man all-conference team? Wow, incredibly weak. Pick 5, call them 1st team. Pick the next 5, call them 2nd team. Its not really that hard.

There is definitely precedent for this in the Big East- usually they pick a player of the year and then a 5-man All-Conference team at the end of the year, resulting in six (and sometimes 7, I believe) first-teamers. Agree it is weak, but with 16 teams it is tough too.

POY- Rudy Gay
Josh Boone
Taquan Dean
Randy Foye
Mike Nardi

Gerry McNamara
Daryl Hill
Allan Ray
Terence Roberts
Kevin Pittsnogle

Where can I sign for the "Marcus Williams never plays a minute NBA" vote?

Right, I know they've had 6 and 7 man teams, which I think are almost (but not quite) as weak as a 10 man team. And I know that with 16 teams, selecting the best 5 players are difficult, BUT ITS AN AWARD! Not everybody should get one. This isn't a certificate of achievement, its an honor that should mean something when its given out. Look, if they came out and said, that with the number of coaches voting, only 2 guys were unanimous (say McNamara and Gay for this example) then there was an 8 way tie for the other 3 spots, then fine. But I haven't seen this and think the point of making an all-conference team was lost on the league.

And Mike Nardi? Somebody have their Philly blinders on

The vote was done before Sumpter was injured. And Wright said today there was a 40% chance that Sumpter plays this year. that is good news.

Marcus Williams will definitely play in the NBA. and he would have been on one of the first two teams had he not been such a knucklehead. Calhoun has been told that the school will rule on the status on Williams and Price by Monday. We'll see.

Syracuse senior guard Gerry McNamara and Connecticut sophomore forward Rudy Gay were selected preseason co-players of the year. McNamara averaged 15.8 points as a junior and is the Orange's all-time leader with 297 3-pointers. The 6-foot-9 Gay was the league's co-rookie of the year last season with Georgetown's Jeff Green. Joining Gay and McNamara on the 10-member preseason all-Big East team were: Josh Boone, Connecticut; Taquan Dean, Louisville; Carl Krauser, Pittsburgh; Daryll Hill, St. John's; Randy Foye, Villanova; Allan Ray, Villanova; Curtis Sumpter, Villanova; and Kevin Pittsnogle, West Virginia.

To be honest, Gay should not be the preseason player of the year. He has done nothing in college that warrants this, it is all on hype. I am not saying GMac deserves it either, but at least he has won a title and has had huge games.

villanova was picked to win the conf by seven coaches, Uconn by five. this again was before Sumpter injury.

Marques johnson will have a hard time getting minutes ahead of Denham Brown, Rashad Anderosn and Gay. He is not a PG, but Calhoun thinks he is the best athlete and defender they have, so I can see him getting 10 minutes per game playing several positions. austrie or Garrison will have a better chance of getting ROY than Johnson, although Johnson has a better chance of being a pro. Speaking of pros, calhoun is saying that this team may have five NBA draftpicks on it (Gay, Boone, Williams, Brown and...Armstrong). hilton has drawn the eye of several scouts, but I am not going there again after geting lambasted for saying that Hilton may be a better pro than Villaneuva. :-)

Calhoun will be in studio with Mike and Mad Dog later this pm.

I've heard that Anderson is having health problems, reinjured the same area of the groin where he had his infection. If that leaves only Brown and Gay to play 2 positions, then the time will be there for Johnson to take.

It's actually my New Jersey blinders. Same difference I guess.

THis is probably 90% fandom, but I just have a gut feeling. Watch out for Matt Gorman, Junior F from my Orangemen. Something tells me hes going to have a HUGE year.

This is true...Anderson's leg is not yet right, but they also think he is going to be the backup at the two and the three. Denham and Gay will play 30 minutes per night. Marques has been playing a lot of PG in practice, sometimes ahead of Garrison with the second team (2nd team: Johnson, Anderson, Adrien, Nelson)

Just as a quick FYI, Rick Pitino has already secured 2 five star recruits, Derrick Caracter and Earl Clark, to come to Louisville for 06-07. Between Francisco Garcia, Taekwan Doe, Clark, and Caracter, Pitino obviously has learned that the NY/NJ area is the most important area in the country to exploit. For Big East fans, this is a bad sign.

Tough to tell if this is because Johnson has been playing well, or if Garrison has been that bad. But his versatility should definitely help. Been hearing a lot of good things about Adrien, amazing to see the number of good big men on the Huskies after years of being perimeter oriented.

I'm not so sure. Outside of Villanova, the successful Big East schools have been doing some of their better recruiting outside of NYC recently.

Calhoun on M&MD...Said that Gay was the most talented kid he's ever had. impossible matchup and needs for him to score points and offensive rebound. Will be running plays for him this year a lot. On marcus and AJ...his tone says that he knows that Williams will be back, but he is almost dismissive of Price, at least in 2005-6. Maybe they already discussed him taking medical redshirt again? I don't know. Will know for sure by Monday (again) and reiterated that playing will be like serving time, how difficult it will be to go to opposing gyms and get taunted. Said that williams would have been a lottery pick had this not happened and he played this year like he did last year. Was happy on Boone, but did not compare him favorably to villaneuva. Said he will be a great complimentary player in the NBA. On the freshmen, spoke highly of Johnson, said he is so athletic he can be a 1-2-3, working with him on being a 1. compared Adrien to a Craig Smith Donya abrams and said he is very physical. Calhoun concluded by saying that Williams was the key and that this is a national championship team with him. "Can be really, really good"

On the league, he winked when asked if the league was done, basically saying the football schools will be brekaing away. He picked Uconn to win the league, but tought that GTown could win as well. Mentioned expereince, Bowman and Green and the easier schedule (not having Louisville, Nova or Syracuse twice).

More like 99.9% fandom. But I HOPE you're right. He's going to see some major minutes unless Roberts & Watkins can avoid foul trouble, which is highly unlikely.

So it's been said before, but I hate the schedule for the new Big East. It honestly seems like it hurts everyone- the top teams play harder schedules and lose too many games to be a number 1 seed in the Big Dance while the bottom teams don't get to play a tough enough schedule and it hurts their RPI. They need to work things out so that at the very least everyone plays everyone once. If I ran things, there would be an 18 game schedule and four different divisions- play home and home against your division and everyone else once. Division winners get a first round bye in the BET, last place teams don't get to go to MSG at all. My divisions:

Carnesseca Division- St. John's, Cuse, Gtown, Nova
Gavitt Division- PC, UCon, Seton Hall, Rutgers
Crum Division- L'Ville, Cincy, WVU, Pitt
Maguire Division- Marquette, ND, Depaul, USF

Obviously there would be complaints about the divisions and I probably would not get all 3 of GU's rivals in the same division, but you need to do something to preserve or develop the rivalries in the conference. I am sure given recent history UCon and Cuse would want to play each other twice, nobody wants two games every year with USF, the divisions would be somewhat unbalanced this year, etc. But at least everyone would play everyone else once.

As for the "inevitable" split of the league, I am not so sure it has to happen. The I-A schools like to think they don't need the others, but a lot of the basketball tradition is concentrated in those others, and the football league is so weak that it would be silly to break up the basketball conference to add a bunch of other also-rans and create a bigger bad football conference in its place. You lose key media markets on the east coast and a group of 8 schools that collectively has a much better hoops tradition than the likes of Rutgers, USF, and WVU (last year notwithstanding). Although each program has had its down years, almost all of them have been in the Top 10 in the past 10 years too, and the ones who have not (Depaul, St. John's) appear to be headed in the right direction.

Its not inevitable anymore. That's why they added the other basketball powers, to keep Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia and/or UConn from leaving.

>>>>>>>>>>>
Just as a quick FYI, Rick Pitino has already secured 2 five star recruits, Derrick Caracter and Earl Clark, to come to Louisville for 06-07. Between Francisco Garcia, Taekwan Doe, Clark, and Caracter, Pitino obviously has learned that the NY/NJ area is the most important area in the country to exploit. For Big East fans, this is a bad sign.
>>>>>>>>>>>

Is there any chance that Pitino didn't know about the importance of recruiting in NY and NJ?

Besides, I don't think there's any "most important area" for basketball recruiting. Last year's best freshmen (in the conference) were from the Baltimore/DC area. This year's preseason top freshman (in the conference) is from Michigan. Next year's best freshman will be a kid from Niagra Falls (I don't count that in your NY/NJ region - Niagra Falls is basically in Canada). There's a ton of top talent in NY/NJ, but you get kids where you find them. Syracuse's next two classes won't have a single kid from the NY/NJ metro region (again, I'm not counting Niagra Falls) even though they'll have 6 or 7 recruits and will be among the top classes in the country.

I agree Otto, although if the point was the moving to the Big East helps Louisville more than it helps the Big East (in basketball - not football), then I would agree.

Do you think this is a good basketball conference: Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Uconn, WVU, USF, Cincy, Rutgers and ND? Becasue that is what it is likely going to look like in 2009. ND will not be a member in football, but will likely have a tie-in to the Bowls and BCS likethey do now and will play two or three games per year against the conference teams, either at home or on a neutral field (NYC). that is my guess

Its a good basketball conference as far as product on the floor, yes. But it lacks some of its old cache and its natural tie-in to NYC, which is a major strength of the BE. I won't welcome the day, if it comes, that the conference loses Villanova (and its Philly connection), G'Town (and its DC connection), St. John's (and its NYC connection), and the new connection to Chicago, DePaul. Rutgers is still a NJ/NY metro connection, but Rutgers isn't St. John's, even struggling St. John's.

I'm not so sure this split is really coming though. Is it?

First USA Today/ESPN Poll released today - ESPN Poll.

No surprise with Duke getting just about all of the 1st place votes. Three BE teams in the top 8 (including UConn at #2 & Nova at #4) & five in the top 16.

In case you hadn't heard, the school came down on Marcus williams and AJ Price tonight. Marcus has been suspended from school for a semester and AJ for a year. Neitehr can live on campus, Marcus for one year and AJ for three years. Marcus has 25 hours of campus community service, AJ 75 hours.

This means that Marcus will be back and playing on january 1 (practicing December 18) and will miss 11 games, asuming he continues to adhere to his disciplinary reponsibilities. Academically, he will be eligible.

Price is another story. He is not currently on campus and is not enrolled in classes. He also has not been cleared medically to play yet in 2005. The reason his penalty was harsher than Williams was that he had a past criminal record (a fight in hgih school) and also had a charge of a false statement (he lied about knowledge of the laptops at first before the cops got him on his text message). The laptops were also found in his room (neither he nor Williams actually took or conspired to take the laptops, another guy did, both players knew about them and then tried t sell them -bright, eh?) His parents have told Calhoun that they want him to continue on at Uconn, but I have no idea if he is going to ever play there. He should be cleared medically soon, or at least that was the idea before this whole laptop scandal happened. His quotes says he will return for school, but i just don't know.

the way this played out smells like they sold out Price for Williams, but I don't know for sure. given everything that happened, this is probably the best possible result for the potential success of the basketball team, so cnspiracy theorists will accuse. And Calhoun has painted this kind of picture in his interview, meaning he knew something.

Here is the press release:
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/AllStories/MBa...8/20051028.html

also, Uconn dropped recruit Ramar smith, a top 15 player (wing) becasue he was having academic and disciplinary issues at his prep school. Kid just did not get it and should probably be in developmental league. Uconn still has a top three class in 2006 (added Ben Eave, a WHITE!!! wing player from Englad who can shoot and defend three positions. Calhoun loves him. they already ahve five players signed for 2006 excluding Smith

I would have to agree with that. Calhoun has clearly soured on Price & getting Williams back in time for conference play immediately justifies UConn's #2 pre-season ranking. They will be a force with Williams.

As I wrote in the UConn thread, the punishment that Willaims and Price got were worse than the average student who was found guilty of on-campus theft received over the past couple years. At least according the Courant or JI or whatever paper I read that in this am. Now, that may be because of the value of the laptops, I don't know.

Price's penalty was tougher becasue he lied to the cops and had the laptops in his room. And he had a prior record stemming from a fight in high school.

Uconn's depth chart looks like this:
PG: Williams, Austrie, M Johnson
SG: D Brown, R Anderson, Johnson, Garrison
SF: Gay, Anderson, Johnson
PF: Boone, Gay, Nelson, Adrien
C: Armstrong, Boone, Nelson

That is a pretty good team, but they will need to play better perimeter defense (Calhoun said they are going to press a lot more this year with Gay at the top). Anderson is a key, as is Armstrong, who is supposedly dominating practicves defensively sometimes. We'll see.

Greg Doyel has some pretty harsh thoughts about Calhoun. I am sure the folks at the Boneyard are tearing this one to shreds, but I do wonder about continuing to support a state employee with millions of dollars when he is so ethically challenged. Of course said state employee is also in charge of runnning an operation that supports hundreds of other residents while providing entertainment to thousands more.

calhoun is a bad guy who steals players. Ooooooh. the AAU stuff is news? Calhoun was not the first or last coach who set up games against teams that were coached by guys who influenced the decision of a recruit. He has yet to hire one as an assistant coach, which is worse in some ways. Does it stink? yeah, but it wasn't against the rules, so he did it. And I'm sure the reason why Denham and Gay singed with Uconn was the exhibition game and not the players that calhoun ahs sent to the pros. C'mon. And other coaches don't like him? I'm sure that keeps him up at night. His players are incredibly loyal. And poor will harris, who never would have played at CT now has to go and find another school. Sorry, maybe it is for the best. And I am not going to talk about the Price/williams stuff again. Doyel's comments were stupid and ill informed.

Why no columns about how this happens every year in football? Or the Caron Butler story of how UNLV hired his prep school coach (Max Goode) after Caron verballed to Uconn, then flew him out to Vegas for a visit? caron ended up going to Uconn anyways.

UConn loses recruits all the time. UNC smoked them this year on three guys. Where is the comments about Emeka Okafor? Or Ray Allen? Or Ben Gordon, who thought he was going to Duke only to find out that they thought he was too soft to play in the ACC.

This is a business and Calhoun runs the company. He gets paid a ton of money by the state and one can argue that he is more responsible than anyone else for the billions of dollars the state has donated to the school for upgrades of facilities and faculty. Uconn is a national school becasue of him. he is a tough SOB and runs his biz that way. And when they are raising the trophy at the end of the year, i hope he points at Doyel and gives him a little kiss. LOL

So the ends justify the means with Calhoun. Gotcha.

uh, yeah. Doesn't it for everyone? I'd rather have Calhoun than a coach who did not do everything he could to try and win. And never has Calhoun been accused of breaking any rules.

Wait, who was the PF that led GTown to a NC with Ewing. Stayed in school for one year, never to be heard from again? that was an ethical situation? That kid attended class? C'mon.

And this wiggins thing is a joke. Read this article from this pm. Kid grew up 20 minutes from Storrs.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=...id=161561&rfi=8

You are referring to Michael Graham, and I am pretty sure he did not go to class very much, thus his short time with the program. I am not going to apologize for everything John Thompson did, particularly some of the less than stellar students he brought in, but I will tell you that when kids fucked up under him, they did not stick around. His attitude was inclined to give kids a chance, and I disagree with some of the chances he took, but I can also give you a long list of kids who did not last at Georgetown due to academic or disciplinary issues, and not just the Antonio Kellogs of the world. And I don't recall anyone ever accusing him of being dirty on the recruiting trail- his biggest shortcoming was probably his unwillingness to work hard on the top recruits.

I don't know if you are a UCon alum, maybe you are just a fan of the program and you don't care about the integrity of the university. I can tell you that I am a big fan of Georgetown basketball but I am more of a supporter of the university as whole, and I would be livid if our coach was playing as fast and loose with the rules and ethics as Calhoun appears to be. The whole business of big time college sports makes me a bit queasy given the sacrifice of academic principles it requires.

Not an alum, but I hear you. If I went to Gtown, I would be pissed if someone did something to ruin the academic integrity of the school. Uconn is a state school and one that is providing a much better environment for learning now then it did before Calhoun became coach. And you can make a big argument that is a reason for that.

also, think about the BE schools that are football schools and those that are not

As my buddy, who went to Missouri, constantly says about Quin Snyder, "its not so bad that he's a scumbag, he could at least win a few games." As was said by Hoya Saxa, the ends justifies the means, as long as your team ends up on top. Happens for everybody.

Shane Clark finally accepted to Villanova. He'll be eligible to start play Dec. 21.

Hoyas got a commitment today from Austin Freeman, class of 2007, combo guard, consensus top 50 (several have him higher), and he goes to DeMatha! GU has not had a DeMatha recruit in about 40 years. They may not be getting blue chips at quite the rate of Cuse and UCon, but JT3 has really picked up the recruiting, and on this one he beat UMCP, NC St, and ND head to head.

You got DaJuan Summer and he's probably a better prospect than Freeman. He has looked good when I've seen him play, albeit a little out of control. Of course, he's no Lance Thomas.

Nice get. GTown will be a contender for the final four next year. And they are a bitch to defend already. just need to defend and board better...watch out!

Yeah, a lot of people are high on Summers, and Vernon Macklin is rated higher than him. Even Jeremiah Rivers (Doc's son) was a Top 50 guy before a sub-par summer. So next year's class looks great, and Freeman is a good start for the next class. It is nice to have hope back around here.

Macklin's going to be a stud, should fill in nicely for Bowman in a year.

Tough break for Louisville....

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2222415

Hate to say it, but this super-conference is looking awful right now. The Big East needs a win out of Nova over Oklahoma this weekend to get some credibility. Right now only UCon has played quality opponents and looked good.

The bottom of the conference looks particularly rank- USF, Cincy, SHU, PC, and DePaul already have had some embarrassing performances. Cuse (not surprising to me) appears way overrated. GU has a long way to go from what I have seen. WVU blew their chance to make an impression. L'Ville hasn't played anyone yet and Padgett is hurt.