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Youth softball allstars. Thoughts on the dreaded coaches kid

Discussion in 'Coaches Corner' started by garlan5, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    A) all stars are for 7 and 8 year olds. I didn't create it. It's existed long before me. I'm not arguing for or against it.
    B.) I explained to my daughter what it meant to be an alternate and that she would get 14 extra practices and 2 scrimmages with more advanced coaching and she would meet and play with new girls. She understood she can't play in tourney unless someone gets sick or can't play. She gladly agreed. Her decision.
    C) she's not subjected to anything. I'm not vocal about anything. I'm the parent that keeps it about the kids. She's making friends and learning each day. She tells me each day how much she loves it.

    Frankly I would make a great hockey parent because I teach my kids team work and unity. I make it about the kids. I coach my boys and I treat them the same as other kids. The boys are only t ball but I'm going to approach things like my dad did. No special privileges and learn and have fun.
     
    #51 garlan5, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  2. Byrdbrain

    Byrdbrain Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I've been reading this thread and not commenting thinking the entire time that a 7 year old "all-star" team is ridiculous, I'm glad to see I'm not alone. I'm aware you didn't come up with the idea and I think the last guys take is a bit over the top but the fact that you created a thread over this does give some insight.
    Anyway carry on with the thread.
     
  3. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    You're right and I do understand that thought I too was surprised they had a team. I mostly take offense to the parts where I'm being a bad parent for subjecting my kid to anything. I work hard to avoid that type of stuff. I'm only here to voice the concerns and vent on things instead of doing so around other local parents and coaches.

    With that said I'm open to talk on what age is appropriate in everyone's mind. Are those here that are against 7 year olds playing against the 8 year olds playing too? What's everyone consensus of age to have all stars.
     
    #53 garlan5, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  4. maufman

    maufman Anderson Cooper x Mr. Rogers Staff Member Dope Gold Supporter

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    Around here, 3rd or 4th grade (varies by sport) is the age that we start segregating kids by ability level (all-stars, A & B teams, etc.). If anything, that's a bit too early -- it's good to give kids that age who are more serious about the sport the opportunity for a more intensive experience, but you're sending a clear message to the kids who don't make the cut; most of them lose interest in the sport, even if they only missed the all-star/A-team because they're late bloomers or are dividing their interest between a few different sports.
     
  5. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    The biggest two leagues, Dixie and little league, sanction this. I agree it can discourage some kids but that's going to be the case all the way up, right. I've seen it in middle school/junior high where kids don't make the school team and they give up.
     
  6. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

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    I agree 7 is young. Our town starts at 10 which I also think is too young. But no it isn't going to change.
    On the plus side, if they are having fun and playing more that is a good thing.

    I know in some areas, kids start playing year round at 8 which I think is crazy.
     
  7. Omar's Wacky Neighbor

    Omar's Wacky Neighbor Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    At the same time, if calling it an AS team brings in the parents and players who'll take it even semi-seriously, it's a small price to pay.

    The current trend I'm seeing among younger teams in many sports is for parents and players to treat the experience as a cost effective playdate, showing up only when they feel like it and leaving the team hanging when they've got something better to do, or dont feel like driving, etc.
     
  8. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Yes it's very serious and you're not allowed to miss but a couple of practices, depending on local rules. When I played 25 years ago if you missed twice you were out. Dixie youth monitors how many innings the girls play on the player-pitcher position even for scrimmage games. They practice everyday for 2 weeks and fit in scrimmages until the weekend tournament. The alternates play in scrimmage and help limit the player pitcher innings of starters. They can only accumulate 11 innings from end of reg season through tournament. That's a Dixie youth rule not local.
     
  9. Lou Lucier

    Lou Lucier lurker

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    10 was a good, solid age to introduce town leaguers to all-star teams. But these days, in decent-sized suburbs, all the true all-stars are playing for club teams by 10.

    The all-star concept is obsolete. Thanks Obama.
     
  10. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

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    Yep...they would, and they did. We've got a pretty fucked up league management dynamic at this point and the guiding principal seems to be (to me anyway) that the guy who is coaching the 11-12 team gets whatever he wants and the rest of us fight over the scraps. I am supposedly VP of baseball and I was not even consulted on the decision (because they knew I'd be against it). It's just a shitty situation all around - there are a couple 11 & 12 year olds they could take instead of this kid and not hurt the 9-10 team. The kid will be a marginal upgrade to the 12th spot on the 11-12 roster, while he'd be one of the top 3 players on the 9-10 team, it's a huge blow to the 9-10 team with very little benefit to the 11-12.
     
  11. Lou Lucier

    Lou Lucier lurker

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    I’m sorry, this all-star team with 7-year-old reserves who have to sit in the bleachers is NOT “about the kids.” It’s about the egos of parents who are blowing off nervous energy until their kids are old enough to make the high school team. … It’s a head game and even the best of us get sucked in.

    Obviously it’s got you in some pain (and rightly so). You started a thread about it on a nationally known baseball site. Those people sorta sound like jackasses. And now you’re not liking when some of us think it’s a bad idea for your 7-year-old to be caught up in this. These types of situations are what helped create the god-forsaken Self Esteem Movement in the first place.

    It doesn’t make you a “bad” parent. Simply an inexperienced one. Trust your gut.

    What, exactly, is this team teaching your 7 year old that you can’t get anywhere else, namely in your own backyard? Pick-off moves? Offensive and defensive signals? The Infield Fly rule? The fvcking Wheel Play?

    A few more missteps like this and ‘her decision’ is going to be, “Daddy, I don’t want to play ________ anymore.” Trust me. I’ve seen them ‘gladly agree’ to retire over less.

    And just wait till the jerks at the rink hear about the guy who drives in from an hour away with a 5-year-old who doesn’t even know how to skate yet. (The Frozen Chosen have been on the ice since they were 3 1/2. Just FYI.) … Those ice rinks get cold. The endless hot coffee keeps everyone jittery and irritable.

    Trust your gut. If your children truly are all-stars, the right coaches will find them eventually.
     
    #61 Lou Lucier, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  12. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    My kid chose to play softball and was chosen to be an alternate. was I supposed to tell her no? Its not a misstep. I'm not mad at anyone for thinking a7 year old shouldn't make allstars. I'm just baffled that people want me to not let her play or whatever it is. The learning she's getting on this team is far superior than what she got in regular season. Reason being her team was younger and the other team stacked a bit. Therfore her team didn't consistently work on things like relay throws from the out field. Some of these things she understood but didn't get a chance to really work on. There's zero problem with her getting extra practice in especially when she wants it. I just don't get what you think I should do.

    Edit: Dixie rules are they have to have 12 on the roster so you need reserves. I don't agree with the 12 minimum. I'd prefer having 14 on the active roster. No reserves. They don't have to sit in the stands or even be at the field. They just can't be in dugout.that's a Dixie rule.


    And as far as hockey goes we live in a rural area and a lot of the kids in the fairly new league travel that far. I was contacted by the league by a friend who suggested we join. The program they start kids in teaches new kids to skate and learn the game. My 4 and 5 year old are the age they normally start them in the program. Once the coaches deem them ready for league play they move them in to it.
     
    #62 garlan5, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  13. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    I truly respect everyone's opinion on 7 year olds playing all stars. My original post is meant to discuss those issues around coaches kids and kids being over looked and unruly parents
     
  14. Lou Lucier

    Lou Lucier lurker

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    It'll be a lot less frustrating for you and your bender if he/she knows how to skate first. Like I said, the red asses have already made sure their players have been on the ice since 3 1/2, 4 years old. And they've pretty much chased USA Hockey and small-sided games out of the Mites level. AAU is full ice. Skating is the key.

    Otherwise, sounds like you've got it all figured out. Good for you! Know-it-alls are awesome!

    The coach with a crappy player kid is like a bad oyster: rare and vomit-inducing. 96 percent of the time it's coaches kids pulling the sled, putting the biscuit in the basket, doing the dirty work. ... Yeah, kids get overlooked sometimes. When they're old enough (mature enough) they can use it as motivation. ... Unruly parents or drama queens? A drama queen vents about his team on message boards. An unruly parent is the one who gets thrown out of games. And you don't want to waste too much time on a team with those people on it. But with you already being a dad of a 7-year-old all-star, within a few years you'll get used to it. Say Hi to Ray Knight for us.

    Good luck to all the players.
     
    #64 Lou Lucier, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  15. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Wow dude I'm the know it all. You're a real class act. How can my kid learn to skate without getting into an introductory program to teach him. He wants to learn how and I don't know how. That's the whole point of the program, to teach them how. It's what that organization recommended. But you think since I didn't start him at 3 he shouldn't waste his time. I don't put my kids on a pedestal by the way
     
    #65 garlan5, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  16. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Instead of backsided insults can we just discuss the matters here.

    Does anyone else have youth all stars with reserves or alternates. My county and surrounding counties do this all the way up to 17-18 year groups. Everyone seems mind blown we do this. Maybe it's just the age group.

    Anyone deal with the division winning coach getting to make the picks or get the majority of the picks from his team. I wish we had try outs for the groups instead of the political shit. We don't even employ the draft to start the season. And please, let's assume we're talking about older kids even though I'm speaking of all groups.
     
  17. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

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    This sounds eerily similar to how our town LL is being run. At the beginning of the season we did not have a draft for LL majors (11-12 - tho we had three 10's "playing up") - we had enough kids for two teams - the guy who is coaching the 11-12 all-star team gave me a list, his team, my team. His team was basically the 11-12 AS team minus 2 or 3 kids (who were the kids of the guys who would be helping me coach). I refuse to sign-off on it and insist on a draft. The league prez (whose kid is on the A team) told me I was being an unreasonable drama queen and that the teams weren't that disparate. I call BS and say I won't coach w/o a draft. So they appointed another coach who begrudgingly went along with the arrangement so long as he didn't have to play against the stacked team. The B team still had a successful season (they're 12-5 after a 2-5 start) but that really says at least as much about the quality of opponents from neighboring towns as it does about our team. The A team is 16-0 and only played one or two close games. Come all-star selections - lo and behold they took a couple players from our team and the rest from theirs...so now they're willing to concede that maybe their team was a little stacked. And when one of our kids opted out (because he didn't think the A-team coach would give him a fair shake re playing time) they pulled the 10yr old who played on their team off the 9-10 all-star team rather than pick another 12yr old from our team (who was on last year's AS team...not a great player, but plenty good enough for the 11th or 12th man).

    The only positive spin I can put on this is that it works out well for my kid...who goes from SS to C on the 9-10 team - and he prefers catching. But it's bad for the team cuz he's better at SS and the kid who got pulled up is a really good catcher (who won't catch for 11-12).
     
  18. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah our Dixie youth baseball doesn't draft and the ring leader of the Dixie program recruits players to his town so he's stacked. I kinda understand not drafting in baseball because we play by towns and we're a large county by area. People don't want to drive 30 miles to the other end of county for practice and the parks are run locally so it's a politics. But they allow kids to go outside their towns and bypass where they should be playing.

    Now the Dixie girls only has two teams and they don't play by town. There's zero reason why they don't draft or use common sense to keep the team's equal. We've got one older group against one younger group.
     
    #68 garlan5, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  19. LoweTek

    LoweTek Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    The All-Star coaches here are selected by league seniority, how many years you have coached in the league. It's kind of a process of elimination from there. A lot comes down to personalities and who gets along with whom as far as selecting assistants go. The manager has a lot of say in those selections.

    This is determined well before the end of the regular season schedule.

    I am the senior-most coach in the league and would have been the all-star manager had I asked to be. I did not care to do it.

    We don't select alternates, we have an entire 'B' all-star team. An injury on the 'A' team would be filled from there.

    Parents of all-star kids have to sign a document committing to the possible travel, expenses and acknowledging the consequences if the kid misses practices or games. It's apparently no longer much of a problem since they started using the document.

    Our league has all-star teams from the get-go, every age division, starting at 6U for both boys and girls.

    I have a question about the 11-12 team mentioned above picking the kid from the 9-10 team. Does the kid or his parents have a say in the matter? I would think the kid would rather play 7 innings at catcher on the 9-10 team than two in RF with one AB on the 11-12 team (assuming he knows that will be the case).

    I think your point about the quality of coaching at the all-star level is a good one. I have been appalled many times at the lack of game knowledge and lack of coaching skills demonstrated by several of the coaches in my league. I mean, who yells at 8 year olds? Some of these guys did. One coach ran out on the field and loudly argued with the umpire that a kid should be out because he slid in to first base. Pretty bad.
     
  20. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    We're a big county area wise but lack in depth for players. Baseball we can't afford to have an A or B squad. Well I guess we could but it would be full of kids with no rides and parents who don't care. It's unfortunate. If we picked two groups then we'd likely have every kid on all stars with the exception of maybe 4 or 5 kids. I wish we had more kids
     
  21. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    We're run by a lifer that has his little prestigious field in his home town and he wants to have the best team on his field. He's got the commish in his pocket nobody can get the power from him. Everyone just follows suit. One town tried little league 3 years ago and are now folding up and coming back to Dixie ball
     
  22. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    My 11yo son had such a bad experience with district LL last year, he's not doing it this year. From coach selection to player to selection, to bad practices, parent behavior, player behavior at games and practices, you name it, our LL and his manager (son was a 9 on 9-10 team) got it wrong last year and it was a terrible experience. I wrote an email to the President, VP and Coaching coordinator (the was no All Star director last year) afterwards that got basically ignored, frustrating because I know all three of them. The manager from that team got a majors team this spring.

    New President, VP and All star director this year. All star director and another board member asked why my son wasn't playing, I forwarded the email from last year. They did not let that manager have a district team this year, so at least that was good. It would be difficult to be more jaded/cynical than I am when it comes to most youth sports and our local LL in particular.

    I'd much rather he do AAU baseball, but those guys seem crazy, double headers every Sat and Sun, trips out of state etc. There doesn't seem to be anything in between.
     
  23. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    I agree about 7 year old all stars not being about the kids, but it's tough to buck the tide. Some organizations, LL, travel clubs, strongly prefer kids who were on teams the previous year. Saying no as a 7 could come back to haunt you for years.
     
  24. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

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    I dunno how much they were involved in the decision (as I alluded to above - I was intentionally excluded from any discussion on this decision). The kid definitely has a bit of a cocky streak and I could see him preferring to be able to say he's on the majors all-star team rather than the minors - but I'm also not sure he fully grasps the playing time implications. The parents are a bit of an odd couple - the dad is pretty laid back and says he's fine with wherever the kid plays - but mom is the feeder for the kid's "big league" attitude so she may be pushing for him to be on the older team. And there's also the dynamic of the LL age cutoff not being in sync w/ school grades - the kid has a late b'day, so most kids in his grade are LL11 while he's LL10 - so he's buddies w/ a bunch of the kids on the 11-12 team.

    And the 11-12 team should do very well - there's almost certainly a better chance of playing later into the summer with that team - so I could see a scenario where the kid and his family might prefer a lesser role on a team that's likely to be more successful. What eats me tho is that the league prez has been preaching the mantra of putting the two best possible teams on the field for tournament season - and then she lets the 11-12 squad poach one of the best players from the 9-10 team - when it's a pretty minor upgrade for that squad and really hurts the 9-10 team's chances.
     
  25. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    They actually stacked a tball team in our ring leaders town last year. They had enough for two teams and they were stacked so they'd have the best group in the county out there while the other group struggled. When I say tball the product was this: one group of 6 year olds hitting from coach pitch and trying to turn two to the other group dog pilling onto the ball in the infield and barely able to hit from the tee.
    Then this year they allow 16 kids on one t ball team. 16 kids. 16 4 and 5 year olds in one dug out.
     
  26. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Yes, this.
     
  27. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    WOW! That is horiific. Teams of 8 would be perfect. You don't need a full 9 for t-ball, or even a year or two after t-ball. Fewer kids means more at bats, more plays in the field, kids more engaged, easier for coaches, more fun for everyone.

    This is one of the great things about soccer 3v3 at the young ages, everyone gets touches, everyone is engaged, it's more fun to play, more fun to coach, more fun to watch.
     
  28. maufman

    maufman Anderson Cooper x Mr. Rogers Staff Member Dope Gold Supporter

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    Middle school is the right time to let a child know that he/she isn't that good at a given sport. Age 9 or 10 is probably a bit too early, though I definitely see the benefit of letting kids that age who are serious about a sport opt for a more intensive experience. Age 7 is way, way too early.
     
  29. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    I agree, there has to come a time when kids get cut. 70% of kids drop out of organized sports by the time they are 13. Sports have a lot to offer in terms of making kids into better people. Losing kids at 7 is a shame. 7 is too early for cuts/travel teams.
     
  30. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

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    That's one of the circles of hell, isn't it?
     
  31. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Yes.
     
  32. RIFan

    RIFan Member SoSH Member

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    This is all true. A bigger issue is probably the parent of the 7 YO who was not selected deciding that the league isn't going to treat their little flower right or that the sport isn't their thing and therefore deciding that they need to concentrate on year round soccer or some other half asses idea.

    The 7 YO that actually cares about making an AS team is few and far between. The joy or disappointment associated with making or not making the team is mostly going to be parroting the parent's reaction. There is no need for kids under 10 to play into the summer, never mind on an all star team.
     
  33. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah we had one mother complain her girl didn't make it and she said, on Facebook of course, that she was taking her kid to another county next year.

    Do you have kids? Just curious how you go about telling a child he or she can't play Allstars. I would have been devastated as a kid. I will concede that my 7 year old didn't know what allstars was until late in the season when the girls started talking about it. But you can believe all the 8 and ups are aware and frothing at the mouth. Good bad or ugly I can't be the parent who says no to that. Our summers as a kid were on the ball field.
     
  34. RIFan

    RIFan Member SoSH Member

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    I have a son in high school so I'm closer to the end than the beginning. I've been through all the crap of youth sports and how most of the joy gets squeezed out of by supposedly well intentioned efforts at "development". I coached several years of baseball and a few of hockey, so I haven't been a bleacher parent. If I was put in position of telling him he couldn't play all stars, I can honestly say I might not have bothered to tell him. He would be none the wiser. I probably would have handled it by telling him what a great job he did and they asked ME if he could play all stars. I would tell him that I said no because we were going to have a great summer and that if he played we'd have to be at practices and maybe miss out on other summer fun stuff. The disappointment, if any, would have lasted about 10 minutes because that is the attention span of a 7 year old. Disappointment is part of life. Learning to deal with it will only make for a stronger child.

    Edit: For the record, our U10 all star tournament teams required sign ups 1st and the selections were made from those who committed. I did get asked a few times and other than 1 year agreeing to have him fill in, I never signed him up for the full commitment. He's 15 and I asked him how much he remembers about A and AA ball and his response was "not much". He's hardly scarred for the missed opportunity.
     
    #84 RIFan, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
  35. Lou Lucier

    Lou Lucier lurker

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    Exact-a-mundo, RI. And I have turned down a few all-star invites for my sons precisely because of beach, lake, national park vacations — the good stuff. I had no problem making those decisions. July, August — that was our time to re-charge. Regular travel seasons (hockey especially) can sometimes be a real grind, for the kid and their chauffeurs.

    Like you, I’m close to the end of the line. I served my time. My youngest, a rising freshman, began his HS soccer team’s training camp this week. I’m officially an ex-youth rec/travel parent/coach/volunteer. AND IT FEELS GOOD.
     
  36. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    I think everyone posting in here has their kids interest at heart. Your way may not be best for my kids and vice versa but to each his own. I too have to get those getaways in whenever I can. My work schedule allows me to get in year round hiking, camping, and canoeing trips plus we must get that week beach trip in to our favorite quiet isolated beach every July.
     
  37. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I think our town based AAU travel team, which operates under the same governing body/organization as our LL, does OK with this (I asst coach my son's 11u team) but we do have occasional doubleheaders back to back days - those usually do suck. Weather cancellations are part of the reason. We use volunteer coaches, which makes it harder and harder to compete with the professionally coached teams as the kids get older, but saves costs. This season, starting Early April, we played 21 regular season games, and we're knocked out of playoffs in second game this past weekend. Did a tournament at Ripken in MD Memorial Day weekend, 4 games. Reg season done, we have tourney over 4th of July at Hershey PA. Will practice a couple times a week, and try to do some scrimmages before tourney to keep sharp. So 30-35 games, vs 15 ish for LL, plus All Stars. We are done 4th of July.

    Yes, travel expenses are added for the tourneys, but our costs to participate are probably less than half of professional travel teams. That includes the once a week practices indoors mid January, which included professional coaching for the kids. We don't requires kids to prioritize baseball over other sports until April, so the hoops, hockey and indoor soccer players can continue doing their thing. My son even managed to stick with spring soccer, which lost in any scheduling conflicts with baseball, but he got to 70-80% of practices and games. Nothing is perfect, and I would never say it always runs smoothly, but we bat the whole team except for the playoffs, move kids around position wise vs dedicated slots, and pitched 11 of 12 kids in season, with 6-7 steady pitchers.

    The advantage I think over LL is more practices (not necessarily case if LL coach is motivated) and games vs better competition. We chose to play in hardest division this year, and our record showed it, but we expected that going in, and the kids competed well even if the record was not great. Also moved up to 50/70 field. Tourneys are as much about fun as the games. It definitely is more crazy in certain ways than LL, but I'm not sure it's necessarily a worse crazy than the stories I've read of heard here. Downside is kids not playing with all their friends, a more intense baseball experience (we ask and expect them to be focused and practice and play hard) and more costly. Other age groups in our program have played less games, done only local tourneys, and kept costs down more. This year's 12u team did both AAU and LL, which meant a more limited AAU schedule. Not all towns do a separate travel program,but we've had enough baseball interest in our town to keep it going for over a decade. Perfect no, but I think benefits worth it so far - this was my son's 4th travel season. He still plays other sports - soccer, hoops, will do some golf and tennis this summer, and he skips fall baseball by choice, which I prefer so as to give baseball muscles a good rest.

    There are some other town based travel baseball programs in CT that pull off a less crazy season in AAU, too. Not sure if your town or nearby ones are an option. Or start your own! Lol. All of this being said, I don't think not playing travel ball is necessarily a bad thing or disadvantage, or dictates no future in the sport at HS level and beyond. Talent, love of game and desire to do well will carry the day, as is avoiding burnout. My son will keep doing travel only as long as he enjoys it, and that time may be coming to an end - a less busy schedule playing with other friends could win out next season.
     
  38. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    Beerabelli - sounds like a good program. Why trips to MD and PA for 11u? Can't find enough competition within an hour or two? or a bunch of fathers who want to get away from their wives for a weekend? I'm joking about that and I know lot of clubs do this in other sports too, I just don't understand the rationale for it.
     
  39. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Not a competition thing - we get plenty of it locally, and aren't seeking it out.

    For our group, it's become a tradition/experience thing. It can be fun to do an out of state tourney, play at these pretty cool complexes, see and play some really good teams from different states. Also the players and families have a chance to enjoy the experience like a mini vacation if it's the right location. First tourney was in Long Island, Baseball Heaven, at 9. That was pretty good. 10 we did one called Diamond Nation in NJ - nice facility, but just meh on the overall experience. This year, we got into Ripken MD, and the kids had a great time - playing on the different replica fields (Fenway!), goofing around playing wiffle ball on the main field under the lights at 10 pm at night, staying at hotel that is replica of the Camden Yards warehouse that overlooks the main field. We played a MA team that won it, that no joke has 3-4 kids about 6 feet tall. We hung with them a bit, but made a few errors and lost 10-2. We let parents know plans ahead of time, and if there was a $ spending issue, we'd figure it out or not require the kid to attend. We had a couple kids stay with friends and their parents stayed home for the weekend to save costs.

    We did Hershey at 9 - not everybody went, it was a late in season addition. But it was fun - got up there and hit amusement part first day, got back there another time. That's what the kids remember. We expect a similar approach this year - approach it as a fun, full experience thing rather than pure baseball thing. We aren't nearly good enough to approach it as a full baseball/success on field thing. What sucks in the holiday weekend travel. But we let people know plans up front, and let them decide what they want to do. And it's not a coercive environment where non attendance is punished. May of the wives attend, as do siblings, so not an "escape" thing.

    Downside is the significant additional costs for travel/lodging/food, and I'm sure there's some pressure on folks who decide to attend the tourneys against their better wishes. Also losing some work vacation days perhaps better used on non sports family trips. Parentss are open to discuss things with coaches and see if we can figure out something that'll work.

    Next destination tourney might be Cooperstown at 12 - not sure if others herer have done that. We've had teams from past go. Not cheap, and adults have to stay in barracks with kids, but supposedly a great experience.

    I believe our 12U team did local tourneys only, 10U going to Ripken only, 9u Hershey only.
     
  40. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

    Messages:
    4,740
    So...back to "the dreaded coaches kid." I'm helping coach our 9-10 tournament team - I've somehow stumbled into the role of pitching coach (I'm pretty good at giving kids the basics, but I'm miles away from any real expertise at this). Manager has been grooming his kid to be the ace of this team for two years. I watched his kid pitch a couple times this year - he's hard to hit but he walks a lot of hitters and pouts both when he performs poorly and when he doesn't get a close call. First practice yesterday - I had 5 kids throw for me, and the manager's kid is at best our 4th pitcher. His mechanics are all over the place and he threw more balls to the backstop than the other 4 pitchers I tried out combined. Manager seemed shocked when I didn't tell him his kid was the best. The kid who looked the best also played on the manager's regular season team - and he only got to pitch about half as many innings as the manager's kid - so I'm worried the manager is going to run his kid out there to the detriment of the team. The kid plays a fantastic 3B and is a solid hitter - but he's not half the pitcher dad thinks he is. Manager does at least acknowledge that his kid doesn't have the best control - so there's hope, but I'm wondering if anyone has any success stories to share about getting a coach to not rely too heavily on their own kid when that kid is not the best option.
     
  41. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    669
    I have stories to the opposite effect. Coach/manager favors own kid (and buddies kids or kid's friends) doesn't give other kids opportunities so it's a self fulfilling prophecy that the coach's kid is the best or one of the best, until they get to either the big field in baseball or high school in basketball. Good luck to you and good for you for even trying to do this and I hope that manager isn't on the board. o_O Hopefully, you can at least get this guy to use the other 3 pitchers that are better than his son a decent amount. A lot of people get involved in coaching and on boards so they can do exactly what this guy is doing.

    The best baseball coach my oldest son ever had was one whose kid was borderline special needs/the worst player on the team. My son loved this coach because he had almost no agenda, he'd put his kid in to pitch for a couple outs in blowouts only and it was obvious his kid wasn't making all stars.
     
  42. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

    Messages:
    4,740
    And last night he left his kid in too long...they fell behind, lost a heartbreaker 10-9 (were down 10-3 going to bottom 5, game ended 10-9, tying run on 2nd, their best hitter on deck) and the manager got himself a one game suspension for badmouthing Blue to the kids in the immediate aftermath (and Blue wasn't bad at all). Perfect. I do this why?
     
  43. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    669
    That sucks. 9-10 year olds, geesh. I hate that so many guys like that get selected or select themselves as coaches.

    If it makes you feel any better, I know the "I do this why?" feeling. Hopefully all the good guys can balance out the guys like that. Be a good role model, don't play favorites, etc.
     
  44. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,454
    Our girls lost in the bottom of the 5 th giving up 5 runs in the walk off. Couple of the parents and a regular season coach/allstar parent started barking at the umps and screaming out instructions during the final innings only to rattle our girls in the field more. This one dad (regular season coach) started barking instructions to our first base coach mid game too. I kindly told him to pipe down. This guy and his wife/girlfriend are the worst. They were told after a scrimmage to keep it down in the tournament after some reasonable parents went to the head coach and complained. To make matters worse I found out after the tournament that when head coach was gathering the girls in a huddle (mid game+after game) she would tell them they are embarrassing the county, not showing effort,etc.
     
  45. robssecondjob

    robssecondjob Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    603
    I just got named as one of the coaches of our 11U All-Star team. A quick look at our roster shows none of the truly awful parents. One player that will inevitably be riding the pine due to his attitude, but I can work with that. No coaches kid pitchers issues for us. None of them can pitch a lick!
     

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